Started logging meeting in #debconf-team, times are UTC.
[21:00:44] <moray> the bells outside just chimed
[21:00:58] <Ganneff> so, could people from the bids please state their name and bid they are from.
[21:01:13] <Hydroxide> Jimmy Kaplowitz, NYC
[21:01:15] <Clint> Clint Adams, NYC
[21:01:18] <bureado> José Miguel Parrella Romero, Quito
[21:01:20] <also> Richard Darst, NYC
[21:01:23] <also> ww
[21:01:27] <MrBeige> Richard Darst, NYC
[21:01:29] <Roliverio> Julio C. Ortega, Quito
[21:01:33] <bgupta> Brian Gupta, NYC
[21:01:39] <apostols> back
[21:01:41] <ailefi> ailefi: Ailé Carelén Filippi Sánchez, Quito
[21:01:49] <apostols> Juan Angulo Moreno, Margarita
[21:02:03] <santiago-ve> santiago-ve, Santiago Zarate, Quito
[21:02:03] <Hydroxide> ari: ping
[21:02:10] <h01ger> #topic introduction
[21:02:41] <Ganneff> waiting for ari and possible othe r late comers, one more minute
[21:02:50] <ari> Ari Pollak, Boston
[21:03:12] <ari> mika and xxv are also from the Boston bid, they should be back shortly
[21:03:26] <xxv> Steve Pomeroy, Boston
[21:03:26] <bureado> A couple people from Quito should be joining us later.
[21:03:40] <bureado> (np if we continue, though)
[21:03:58] <Ganneff> #topic late bids, what to do with them?
[21:04:18] <Ganneff> this is general, not quito only on purpose. could be others wanting to jump in short-notice.
[21:04:28] <Ganneff> before we have final decision.
[21:04:43] <Ganneff> now, my viewpoint is: if no other existing bid has a problem with it, accept. if others do have (and they have been in time) - well, sorry, we had a timeline, and that was december 31st, 2008.
[21:04:46] <Ganneff> others?
[21:05:11] <moray> personally I'm not strictly against them, I think late bids need to be extra good to make up for being late though -- as it shows a lack of preparation/commitedness/whatever compared to the others
[21:05:44] <Roliverio> we intend to be :D
[21:05:44] <bureado> My point of view (without my UIO hat) is that quality and viability of the bid should be taken into account, just as moray says
[21:05:59] * h01ger is with moray
[21:06:04] <moray> but like you say, if the on-time bids would be upset by a late bid, that's not good
[21:06:30] <Hydroxide> as a member of a competing localteam, I think it's fairest for me to leave that decision to the global debconf people who aren't part of any dc10 localteam
[21:06:40] <moray> (I guess if not being on-time really upset them they'd have given up on Debian though ;)
[21:06:43] <ari> i'm not really that against quito particularly, but certainly late bids after this point shouldn't be accepted
[21:06:55] <Roliverio> lol @ moray
[21:06:59] <Hydroxide> I'm fine with whatever they decide on whether quito is allowed or not. I agree with ari about bids received later than now
[21:07:11] <ari> since we haven't really done anything official until now
[21:07:49] <bureado> I also think that, even if on-time bids don't agree, new bids should be taken into account. If some day we only have one bid for a DC, and that bid is on time but is actually not viable for any reason, then why we shouldn't look at other options?
[21:07:55] <Ganneff> so for everyone coming up in future its a straight "no". for quito it could be a yes, if the quality of the bid (and as such atm the preparation of the checklist?) is pretty good?
[21:08:21] <Ganneff> bureado: if we only have one bid, there is no thing like we have now.
[21:08:24] <moray> seems that no one's yelling against them
[21:08:34] <Ganneff> ok. lets go with:
[21:08:58] <bureado> Ganneff: I understand that's not the point now, but I also believe the spirit of what we're discussing now sets ground for the future.
[21:09:06] <Ganneff> #agreed quito is in as bid, if the quality of it is pretty good. later bids after this point are not ok.
[21:09:08] <Ganneff> ok?
[21:09:20] <h01ger> Ganneff, yes. for values of future concerning dc10 :)
[21:09:24] <ari> do we care about whether this sets a bad precedent for the future?
[21:09:32] <Clint> i would suggest that in future years, the purpose of the deadline be examined and set accordingly to meet that purpose
[21:09:37] <ari> not that debian takes deadlines seriously, like what moray said
[21:10:06] <moray> ari: (of course deadline-keeping matters more for a real-life meeting than for most Debian stuff)
[21:10:21] <Clint> in other words, if the only issue at stake with quito not meeting the deadline is the precedent, then the deadline was wrong
[21:10:25] * h01ger thinks its fine. imo its also clear that this year we dont take latecomer easily. so the timeline is "real", even if its (a bit) flexible :)
[21:10:30] <ari> what Clint said.
[21:10:58] * h01ger thinks its more important to keep the end of the timeline, that is, decide by march/april
[21:11:03] <bgupta> Although, I have no real objection to Quioto's bid, I'd like to understand why the bid is "late".
[21:11:04] <Hydroxide> h01ger: yes.
[21:11:32] <ari> late not just in sending mail to debconf-team, but even a public proposal
[21:11:42] <h01ger> Ganneff, can you please think of a topic at the end, which is "topics for the dc9 meeting"?!
[21:11:48] <h01ger> bgupta, that was explained on the list
[21:12:00] <h01ger> (but i dont mind it being repeated here)
[21:12:02] <bureado> bgupta: As I stated previously both in this channel and the mailing list, the local team was trying to secure some commitments of local sponsors. I also stated that we wouldn't like to present any particular excuses for missing the deadline.
[21:12:15] <moray> ganneff: I'd suggest that detailed questions to the DC10 bids could go to the mailing list, else this meeting could go on all night
[21:12:32] <moray> Ganneff: questions *from* the bids about the process etc. seem more useful for this meeting, after the introductions
[21:12:32] <zer0mdq> so, whats next?
[21:12:50] <Ganneff> my plan was to give every bid a few minutes to introduce their bit, plus a fewe mins for questions.
[21:13:04] <moray> yeah, as long as there's a time limit on that :)
[21:13:08] * Hydroxide is OK with that, and also with any order of presenting among the bids
[21:13:12] <moray> I could myself ask hours of questions ;)
[21:13:16] <Ganneff> #topic dc10 bids - short introductions / questions (about 10 minutes per bid please)
[21:13:27] <bureado> I'm ok with it, 10 mins is ok, order doesn't matter for us
[21:13:38] <zer0mdq> who's first?
[21:13:39] <moray> random order?
[21:13:45] <Ganneff> who wants to start? i dont have any preference, but how about NYC, quito, boston?
[21:13:50] <xxv> how about the latecomers? ;-)
[21:13:53] <bureado> We can go first.
[21:13:54] <Ganneff> doesnt really matter anyway.
[21:14:01] <Roliverio> bureado: go ahead.
[21:14:04] <ari> don't forget .ve
[21:14:15] <Ganneff> oh, yes, right, them too. sorry.
[21:14:19] <rvntone> Yonel Meza Avila, Quito
[21:14:30] <h01ger> maybe its useful if you change your nicks to something like h01ger_hamburg
[21:14:48] <Ganneff> #topic dc10 bids - short introductions / questions (about 10 minutes per bid please) - Quito
[21:15:01] <bureado_UIO> K
[21:15:02] <Ganneff> so lets go with quito first, then a us, then .ve, then the other us one.
[21:15:19] <bureado_UIO> So, about Quito's DC10 bid
[21:15:29] <bureado_UIO> We've summed most things up in: http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf10/Quito
[21:15:50] <bureado_UIO> We've already looked at the venue, which is Centro de Convenciones Eugenio Espejo
[21:16:06] <Ganneff> #info - next meeting should have nick changes *before* the meeting.
[21:16:10] <bureado_UIO> Which is a major conventions center for the city (which is capital of Ecuador -- 2.5 million people live here)
[21:16:21] <bureado_UIO> We're planning to host 100 people on DebCamp and 400 people on DebConf
[21:16:39] <bureado_UIO> We think that Quito's main advantage ATM is the country being cheap and USD being local currency
[21:16:53] <bureado_UIO> (no, there's no local currency... not even for coins though they're made here)
[21:17:12] <bureado_UIO> OTOH, Ecuador doesn't require visas for most country -- at the page you'll find a link to the Ecuador Embassy in the US which lists the countries
[21:17:29] <bureado_UIO> (getting a tourist visa if you'r ein the list is not a problem, and the local team can take care of the expenres)
[21:17:44] <bureado_UIO> So, we also made a very preliminary budget draft
[21:17:56] <bureado_UIO> Taking into account what DC6 and DC7 had to said in their final reports
[21:18:01] <bureado_UIO> It's here -> http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf10/Quito/BudgetDraft
[21:18:33] <bureado_UIO> Even with inflation, and oversizing costs, we can be around 150,000 USD for the whole event (questions on this are very welcome when the meeting allows them or afterwards through the ML)
[21:18:48] <bureado_UIO> One of the main concerns for all bidders is connectivity
[21:19:16] <bureado_UIO> Even though the Eugenio Espejo Convention Center provides broadband (DSL) we requested quotations from several providers
[21:19:40] <bureado_UIO> Some of them had availability, some not, but we ended up with a good offer of 700 USD/month plus installations for 2 Mbps FC, we could order 4 or 5 of that
[21:20:01] <bureado_UIO> And we actually had a local company to commit to pay 3000 USD for that -- so we think we're kind of covered in that respect
[21:20:13] <Ganneff> [5 minute bell. might get to questions soon please, state so if you are there :) ]
[21:20:15] <bureado_UIO> (5 mins. left in my clock)
[21:20:24] <Ganneff> ha. works. :)
[21:20:34] <Ganneff> ok. do you have any question from bid to the orga team?
[21:20:46] <bureado_UIO> Yes
[21:21:01] <bureado_UIO> 1. Are we counting on the seed money for any of the DC10 bids? How much could that be?
[21:21:26] <moray> That depends on how the DC9 finances go, I think? i.e. can't be predicted yet
[21:21:28] <Ganneff> seed? you mean a starting approach, from leftovers of prior confs?
[21:21:40] <Ganneff> that amount really depends on what we have left over.
[21:21:49] <bureado_UIO> 2. It'd be nice to know (we didn't find it around) how many people got travel sponsorship and the countries for that -- looking at the Budget Draft, we can sponsor 35 to 70 people with some percentages of Europe, US and LatAm, so it'd be nice to know
[21:21:58] <bureado_UIO> Ok about 1
[21:22:25] <bureado_UIO> Those are our main questions ATM for the orga team
[21:22:26] <bureado_UIO> Thanks!
[21:22:31] <Ganneff> 2. - it depends where the dc is. far away from europe we usually have way less people sponsored, more expensive flights. can look for exact details outside this meeting, mail me please.
[21:22:41] <bureado_UIO> will do
[21:22:42] <moray> for travel sponsorship -- that depends on how much money is available after venue costs
[21:22:49] <Ganneff> any question (that should be discussed right now, and not per mail) from people to the bid?
[21:23:05] <moray> a cheaper venue means more money, but as ganneff says more expensive flights mean fewer people sponsored
[21:23:45] <Ganneff> questions?
[21:23:49] <bureado_UIO> moray: Taking that as a question, yes, but Ecuador is also a main touristic destination in Latin America. Flights from other parts of LatAm and US are cheap and Europe can be really cheap if you transit throught other LatAm countries.
[21:23:51] <ari_boston> i have one
[21:23:56] * h01ger rereads http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/LocationCheckList
[21:23:58] <Ganneff> ari_boston: shot
[21:24:08] <Hydroxide_NYC> (BANG!)
[21:24:10] <ari_boston> do we expect 4 2Mbps DSL connections to actually be sufficient?
[21:24:41] <Ganneff> ari_boston: only grudgingly. imo. we had 5 of those in .mx.
[21:24:48] <Ganneff> its really a bad experience.
[21:24:59] <ari_boston> how many people were at .mx?
[21:25:07] <zer0mdq> ari_boston: in dc8 we had 3x3.3mbps and it worked fine
[21:25:08] <Ganneff> 10mbs are the minimum, but really, any more is way better.
[21:25:15] <bureado_UIO> ari_boston: That depends on the DC team expectation. First of all, it's not DSL, it's fibre. Second, as we already got 3K for those links, we can look at something else.
[21:25:34] <h01ger> bureado_UIO, how far is the (thought of) venue from the hotel area?
[21:25:45] <Ganneff> ok. the 10 minutes are over. anything more please by mail, after h01ger q got a reply
[21:26:14] <Ganneff> ...
[21:26:20] <bureado_UIO> h01ger: For the 20 USD/person/night lodging area (which is La Mariscal) is about 10 mins. in our transportation or public transportation. But we're looking to reduce costs on lodging accomodating us nearby the convention center, which would then be on walking distance.
[21:26:26] <bureado_UIO> Thanks again.
[21:26:30] <Ganneff> #topic dc10 bids - short introductions / questions (about 10 minutes per bid please) - NYC
[21:26:35] <h01ger> 10min by bus?
[21:26:47] <h01ger> but yeah, nyc! :)
[21:26:48] <Ganneff> Hydroxide_NYC: your floor.
[21:27:28] <Hydroxide_NYC> Ganneff: ok. so, NYC's overall stuff is http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf10/NewYork
[21:27:54] <Hydroxide_NYC> NYC has a few general advantages not specific to our venue
[21:28:17] <Hydroxide_NYC> travel costs are quite cheap and flights are quite direct from most of the world, which will allow more people to afford their flights or get sponsored
[21:28:35] <Hydroxide_NYC> there's very useful 24/7 public transportation and food stores, etc
[21:28:52] <Hydroxide_NYC> lots of diets can be satisfied in terms of food, certainly vegetarian and vegan
[21:29:08] <Hydroxide_NYC> there are a huge number of daytrip options - beaches, parks, urban architecture, museums, etc
[21:29:16] <Hydroxide_NYC> lots of cheap stores to get electronics
[21:29:29] <h01ger> vegetarinism is not diet :-P
[21:29:38] <Hydroxide_NYC> everyone speaks english, and in many areas (including the one our venue is in), many people also speak spanish
[21:29:47] <ari_boston> h01ger: it is
[21:29:49] <Hydroxide_NYC> and the city is very friendly to foreigners and people of all appearances.
[21:30:14] <Hydroxide_NYC> we're looking at one main venue in manhattan called Hostelling International (but for everything including lodging and talk rooms.)
[21:30:44] <Hydroxide_NYC> we've done a mostly complete job of filling out the location checklist document here, assuming that venue: http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf10/NewYork/HI
[21:31:01] <Hydroxide_NYC> MrBeige / MrBeige_NYC is going to take over, since he's been the main contact with them
[21:31:17] * marga here. Reading backlog.
[21:31:35] <MrBeige_NYC> so, it's important to emphasize that we have multiple options on all aspects -- lodging, venue rooms, etc
[21:31:48] <Ganneff> [5 minute bell. might get to questions soon please, state so if you are there :) ]
[21:31:58] <MrBeige_NYC> we settled on HI mainly for the enviroment it would provide
[21:32:25] <MrBeige_NYC> it is completley self-contained -- can have all of our facilities under one roof, with management who knows our needs and can work with us
[21:32:33] <MrBeige_NYC> they have 600 beds total
[21:32:44] <MrBeige_NYC> two large rooms and two small rooms, and much common space for our use
[21:32:59] <zer0mdq> MrBeige_NYC: i guess connectivity isn't a problem over there, right?
[21:33:08] <Ganneff> zer0mdq: question time is later :)
[21:33:25] <MrBeige_NYC> they are open to our bringing in networknig gear and outside internet connections
[21:33:28] <Ganneff> unless NYC is done and wants questions now?
[21:33:31] <Hydroxide_NYC> zer0mdq: not a problem, no. they have a significant amount of connectivity already and we can add more
[21:33:38] <MrBeige_NYC> (though they already have a "good" connection they were bragging about)
[21:33:50] <ari_boston> did you find out what their existing conneciton is?
[21:33:53] <Hydroxide_NYC> I think we should allow the remaining time for questions - but we should mention that we've put numbers for food, accomodation, and venue rooms in the wiki aldready
[21:33:58] <Ganneff> ok, great. same deal: does the bid have any question to the team?
[21:34:01] <MrBeige_NYC> and being an international hostelling organization, they are compatible with our mission
[21:34:10] <Roliverio_UIO> i have a question
[21:34:21] <Hydroxide_NYC> Roliverio_UIO: go ahead
[21:34:38] <MrBeige_NYC> ari_boston: I don't know their existing connection yet...but they said they were even in the process of upgrading it to sustain there ~600 occupants
[21:35:06] <Ganneff> Roliverio_UIO: shot
[21:35:09] <Roliverio_UIO> MrBeige_NYC: is it possible for people not living in US to get a Letter of Invitation so as to ease the burden of obtaining a visa to visit the Country?, Have you tought of making some arrengements in that matter?
[21:35:35] <Roliverio_UIO> getting a tourist visa it's not so easy.. regrettably.
[21:35:37] <Hydroxide_NYC> Roliverio_UIO: yes. we plan to work with DebConf's many US-based corporate sponsors to get their lawyers to help with the bureaucracy
[21:35:56] <Ganneff> do you also intent to involve spi?
[21:36:06] <Hydroxide_NYC> Roliverio_UIO: and it's also a business visa for attending conferences, which might possibly be easier. we'll let the government know about the conference so that they're aware of it, and we'll try to give letters like you said
[21:36:06] <Ganneff> (besides the usual money service we have)
[21:36:14] <Sledge> ]/wi2
[21:36:15] <MrBeige_NYC> Roliverio_UIO: I haven't asked HI about this yet (too much other details first), but I think they would be happy to create a form letter for us
[21:36:27] <Hydroxide_NYC> Ganneff: yes, I assume that any documents that we need signed by a legal entity would be SPI
[21:36:28] <apostols_Margarita> Sorry but I have to leave
[21:36:30] <Hydroxide_NYC> Ganneff: for boston too
[21:36:30] <Ganneff> ok. time is out soon.
[21:36:54] <Ganneff> #topic dc10 bids - short introductions / questions (about 10 minutes per bid please) - Margarita
[21:37:03] <Ganneff> ok, who wants to speak for this venue?
[21:37:09] <Hydroxide_NYC> apostols_Margarita: do you have time to speak now?
[21:37:10] <Roliverio_UIO> Hydroxide_NYC: thanks, :D
[21:37:45] <Ganneff> hrm. thats a good timing. should have known this constraint before.
[21:38:02] <Ganneff> anyone else here that is involved with that bid and can jump in?
[21:38:44] * h01ger remembers that last time (when it was controversial) we asked the team to present the downsides of their bid and also to tell what they think the downsides of the other bids were.
[21:38:46] <moray> seraph1_Margarita fell off
[21:38:55] <Ganneff> that - does not help.
[21:39:01] <moray> h01ger: I think that's for a later meeting, if it happens
[21:39:06] <Ganneff> h01ger: that was in a later meeting
[21:39:11] <Ganneff> decision one.
[21:39:12] <moray> h01ger: we had a whole schedule for that
[21:39:28] <moray> (which was kept the same for dc8 after dc7)
[21:39:30] <Hydroxide_NYC> one thing I do want us to do at this meeting is decide how many more meetings we need, i.e. 1 or 2.
[21:39:38] <Ganneff> now, as noone from margarita is here, lets switch to boston. if .ve people appear again, we take them after this.
[21:39:44] <Ganneff> Hydroxide_NYC: after all bids had their run, yes.
[21:39:48] <Ganneff> #topic dc10 bids - short introductions / questions (about 10 minutes per bid please) - boston
[21:39:49] <moray> does this mean .ve networking is not so great? ;)
[21:39:49] <Hydroxide_NYC> Ganneff: yes.
[21:39:57] <Ganneff> someone from boston: your floor
[21:40:02] <Ganneff> :)
[21:40:12] <ari_boston> Okay, so our proposal is at http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf10/Boston
[21:40:40] <ari_boston> Travel costs/arrangements are very similar to NYC
[21:41:18] <ari_boston> We're at a huge advantage with connectivity, which is effectively unlimited
[21:41:57] <ari_boston> We have a pretty solid idea of costs for venue & housing, but we haven't been spending much time on food costs
[21:42:45] <ari_boston> We can bring in any outside caterer as long as they're insured, or we could just tell people they're on their own with the plethora of outside food options
[21:43:34] <ari_boston> The currently proposed venue is less than a 5 minute walk to the proposed accomodation (both of which are WiFi-eqipped)
[21:44:05] <ari_boston> i think that about does it for the executive summary..
[21:44:39] <Ganneff> ok. so questions. same deal: any from you to the orga team?
[21:44:40] <ari_boston> Oh, and we're at a huge advantage with the location in general, being in the middle of a lot of academia and MIT
[21:44:54] <ari_boston> I don't think I have any questions since I've generally been asking them as they come up
[21:45:06] <Ganneff> fine. everyone: questions to the boston bid?
[21:45:25] <Maulkin> I'm probably being blind, but is there an accomodation cost?
[21:45:35] <Maulkin> YEs, I am.
[21:45:45] <bureado_UIO> From 56 to 121 USD night
[21:45:51] <ari_boston> Maulkin: the 2008 costs are in the Accomodation second
[21:45:53] <ari_boston> er section
[21:46:00] <Hydroxide_NYC> ari_boston: you mention air-conditioned and non-airconditioned rooms. how many would be of each type?
[21:46:52] <ari_boston> One sec, checking
[21:47:28] <MrBeige_NYC> Hydroxide_NYC: how much would debconf be considered an academic/"insider" event at MIT, vs an outside conference ?
[21:47:29] <ari_boston> I'd need to get back to you on that for an exact number, but I'm pretty sure we could accomodate everyone in either option
[21:47:32] <bureado_UIO> ari_boston: As I understand, little if none effort should be taken regarding networking/connectivity, as we can use venue's network? But OTOH I saw a 100 USD/port fee, will we have access to a small server room?
[21:47:34] <MrBeige_NYC> ari_boston: --^
[21:48:11] <ari_boston> MrBeige_NYC: i don't think the distinction is made, since every conference at MIT has to be organized by a faculty member
[21:48:12] <MrBeige_NYC> ari_boston: and what effects would that have on our use of MIT facilities... i.e., what disadvantages do attendees have from not being MIT students/faculty/staff ?
[21:48:49] <moray> for DebConf, it's not so relevant what the theoretical site connection is, but what they mind us using in terms of bandwidth/incoming connections/ports/etc.
[21:48:54] <Hydroxide_NYC> right
[21:49:14] <xxv_boston> moray: MIT doesn't really care about bandwidth usage.
[21:49:45] <xxv_boston> I would find it very hard to believe that even Debconf could cause a significant distubance.
[21:49:56] <ari_boston> MrBeige_NYC: the only real distinction is that conference visitors don't have an MIT login, but that shouldn't affect anything
[21:49:56] <Hydroxide_NYC> if there are dead spots in our lodging area where there isn't wifi access, would MIT be OK with us supplementing their network equipment to fix the dead spots?
[21:49:57] <moray> xxv_boston: I certainly believe you can get a setup equivalent to what we had in Edinburgh -- initially in Edinburgh they wree offering the standard conference setup, which would *not* have worked for us, though
[21:50:07] <Ganneff> ok. now, thats it with the 10 minutes. now, do we have anyone from venezuela available now?
[21:50:09] <marga> How certain is the MIT facility?
[21:50:16] <Sledge> do you have a finger-in-the-air guess for a total budget for a similar size to the Quito bid?
[21:50:19] <Maulkin> Hrm. To help with my financial figurings, would you give a quick estimate for the total cost for ~400 people without travel?
[21:50:20] <ari_boston> Hydroxide_NYC: if there were dead spots in MIT housing, people would've complained a while ago
[21:50:27] <Maulkin> Great minds etc...
[21:50:29] <moray> Maulkin: probably better to get that by email
[21:50:35] <moray> marga: "
[21:50:44] <moray> (unless they have it ready)
[21:50:46] <ari_boston> marga: it is certain
[21:50:54] <Ganneff> anyone from margarita here now?
[21:50:55] <ari_boston> we just haven't reserved specific rooms yet
[21:51:05] <mako> Hydroxide_NYC: there won't be any dead spots
[21:51:15] <Ganneff> #topic more meetings for the decision process
[21:51:22] <marga> ari_boston: ah, ok. The wiki says "if we can manage on-campus or nearby housing,"... What is uncertain is the housing, then?
[21:51:25] <Ganneff> as it doesnt look like .ve is here right now, lets go on. :()
[21:51:39] <ari_boston> marga: ah, that's old
[21:51:43] <ari_boston> i'll fix it
[21:51:46] <marga> ari_boston: ok.
[21:51:50] <marga> :-\
[21:51:50] <Ganneff> above is a wish from Hydroxide, so lets see what we will have in future.
[21:51:53] <Ganneff> IMO one other meeting, in the middle of Feb is enough. If that is fairly structured, like today, and made to be like the dc7/8 ones, it will work out. Every bid can point out the bad things in other bids, then we go though the checklist and rate the bids. the one with the most points wins.
[21:51:56] <marga> Bad precedent for .ve...
[21:52:04] <Ganneff> marga: yes.
[21:52:24] <moray> http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf8/Meetings#Decision_meeting.2C_Sunday_11_February.2C_20_UTC
[21:52:25] <marga> the bad points in other bids?
[21:52:26] <Ganneff> that decision meeting will take long, i guess 2 hours.
[21:52:35] <moray> ^^ is the last decision meeting
[21:52:40] <Ganneff> marga: yep. what you think will turn out bad for the other bid
[21:52:47] <moray> bad in their own bids was the tradition
[21:52:49] <marga> I think that what we did was point out good and bad points in each other's bids, not in the others...
[21:52:49] <moray> and good in the others
[21:52:50] * h01ger nods Ganneff - we should aim to decide in the next meeting
[21:53:07] <moray> (see the agenda linked above)
[21:53:29] <Ganneff> right. bad in yours, good in theirs. my fault.
[21:53:39] <bureado_UIO> Ah, ok.
[21:54:00] <marga> yes, I like that agenda.
[21:54:02] <moray> the idea being to eventually get a decision based on people agreeing about things
[21:54:02] <bureado_UIO> Then, we're ok with having one more meeting in mid Feb with that agenda.
[21:54:11] <marga> So, you think we should plan for just 1 meeting, with that agenda?
[21:54:18] <bureado_UIO> +1
[21:54:20] <Ganneff> one meeting where you schedule about 2 hours at least. it will take long
[21:54:26] * h01ger nods moray
[21:54:28] <moray> I'm not sure what an extra meeting would do, that we can't do by email
[21:54:38] <Ganneff> ay.
[21:54:40] * h01ger nods moray again
[21:54:41] <marga> yes... or more, giving that we have 4 (?) venues :-\
[21:54:42] <Sledge> yup
[21:54:42] <moray> the time before that meeting depends on what the bids want
[21:54:48] <Hydroxide_NYC> sounds good to me. I can't guarantee my availability on Feb 8 or Feb 15, but Feb 8 is more likely for me to be free. regardless NYC should be able to send enough representatives either day.
[21:55:02] <Ganneff> if we aim for mid/end feb, like around the 22, it should have ennough time for lots of mails
[21:55:10] <Ganneff> Hydroxide_NYC: goal is mid/end of feb.
[21:55:12] <Hydroxide_NYC> the 22nd I should be free regardless :)
[21:55:23] <marga> Maybe we could ask for the checklist part to be done by wiki/mail
[21:55:31] <Ganneff> the meeting should be scheduled via doodle again, so we get the best spot. (and i bet someone will have trouble anyway)
[21:55:39] <Hydroxide_NYC> ok
[21:55:41] <bureado_UIO> We are ok with the timing, even though we are latecomers, we believe we have as-much-as-the-others bids sorted out already.
[21:55:52] <moray> marga: well, we need a deadline before going through that agenda, so things don't change
[21:55:56] <marga> With at least a few days in advance, so that the rest can read it? I think the meeting is going to be eternal otherwise.
[21:56:11] <Ganneff> people from bids should have their stuff prepared according to the agenda already, so its not all written during the meeting. (writing down takes long)
[21:56:21] <Ganneff> marga: hrm. worked last time.
[21:56:26] <moray> marga: hm, I think we maybe just have to live with that
[21:56:32] <marga> Ganneff: last time it was only 2 proposals.
[21:56:38] <marga> Ganneff: this time it's 4...
[21:56:42] <ari_boston> i really think the majority of the agenda should be on the wiki
[21:56:50] <ari_boston> i mean, answers
[21:56:50] <Ganneff> we do need: a chair. one or two people helpong to count the priorities and the "voting"
[21:56:51] <moray> marga: I think if we set an additional checklist agenda people will just say "oh but we have news about that..." afterwards anyway
[21:57:09] <moray> marga: i.e. another artificial deadline like the one the bid teams just deleted at the start of this meeting :)
[21:57:11] <ari_boston> who gets a vote?
[21:57:14] <marga> moray: :-\ Ok.
[21:57:18] <Ganneff> ari_boston: bid people.
[21:57:23] <Hydroxide_NYC> marga: checklist part? you mean LocationCheckList like the NYC bid's page at http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf10/NewYork/HI, or something specific to the decision meeting?
[21:57:23] * h01ger thinks wiki should be summarized by mail.
[21:57:24] <Ganneff> and two global orgas.
[21:57:30] <marga> ari_boston: we went by consensus last time...
[21:57:54] <marga> Hydroxide_NYC: the 9 points in the http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf8/Meetings#Decision_meeting.2C_Sunday_11_February.2C_20_UTC agenda
[21:57:56] <moray> in the past the idea was to refine the rankings until it was 'obvious'
[21:57:59] <Hydroxide_NYC> marga: ah right
[21:58:00] <bureado_UIO> I think, however, that .ve should be pinged. I haven't heard progress from them (being a .ve citizen) since the original meeting in DC8.
[21:58:00] <moray> I agree this is harder with 4 bids
[21:58:06] * MrBeige_NYC thinks there should also be a /Comparison page with at table nicely filled out beforehand
[21:58:21] <Ganneff> ok. i think we are all set on one meeting.
[21:58:24] <marga> MrBeige_NYC: do you volunteer?
[21:58:24] <h01ger> MrBeige, care to set one up?
[21:58:28] <marga> :)
[21:58:28] <Ganneff> and are now just discussing how to do it best.
[21:58:28] <moray> MrBeige_NYC: I think that table is the 4 checklist pages?
[21:58:32] <bureado_UIO> MrBeige_NYC: Would you move the one NYC made for the /HI page there?
[21:58:32] <Ganneff> which, i think, should be via mail.
[21:58:43] <MrBeige_NYC> yes, i'll start it
[21:58:44] <Ganneff> unless you disagree with the "one meeting" approach, please keep it to mail?
[21:58:47] <MrBeige_NYC> to be filled out by everyone
[21:58:52] <moray> MrBeige_NYC: in the meeting people normally argue about how their own bid is assessed by outsiders...
[21:58:55] <MrBeige_NYC> and i've started one on teh HI page
[21:58:56] <h01ger> MrBeige_NYC++
[21:59:01] <marga> I can volunteer for chair... Although I'm biased, I know I can be an unbiased chair.
[21:59:07] <MrBeige_NYC> but the idea is so that everyone can see the key points side by side
[21:59:14] <Sledge> marga: cool
[21:59:19] <moray> marga for chair is good as she's worried about time :)
[21:59:37] <ari_boston> also assigning an arbitrary point value for the prioritylist isn't really a great thing to do
[21:59:42] <marga> moray: :)
[21:59:47] <moray> as usual I can help with chairing/voting/arguing/whatever as required
[21:59:48] <Ganneff> marga: will be a long meeting, maybe two chairs? i volunteer to help, if you accept. (and yes, i can ignore my opinion too :) )
[21:59:58] <Ganneff> anyway.
[22:00:00] <MrBeige_NYC> ari_boston: the arbitrary point value was just for my reference, not for everyone else's final decision making...
[22:00:07] <ari_boston> hopefully my fingers will be warmer at the next meeting
[22:00:10] <marga> Ganneff: we need to modify meetbot for that :)
[22:00:16] <Ganneff> #agreed we will have one more meeting for the decision, agenda check page done in wiki before.
[22:00:20] <Ganneff> #topic Anything to mention for DC9?
[22:00:28] <xxv_boston> ari_boston: wear gloves.
[22:00:30] <Ganneff> marga: we will find a way.
[22:00:39] <Ganneff> ok. h01ger did want this topic.
[22:00:48] <Ganneff> do we have anything we should put on agenda for the next dc9 meeting?
[22:00:55] <marga> Regarding DC9, we need them to get moving. I'm afraid they aren't doing anything yet...
[22:00:59] <moray> yeah
[22:01:17] <Ganneff> i think they are doing things, but arent used to communicate online that much. but yes, agreed, we need to kick them :)
[22:01:22] <h01ger> yeah
[22:01:25] <moray> while I know/hope some things are in motion, there's little public sign of a local team even existing :)
[22:01:31] <h01ger> and we need a sponsorpack
[22:01:32] <marga> Ganneff: I think we could go with the general status reports that we had for DC8. Meaning: 1) Venue status 2) Network Status 3) Sponsor Status ...
[22:01:37] <Ganneff> yes
[22:01:50] <Ganneff> ok. so thats a set of options already. more?
[22:01:52] <moray> where (3) is: eek, that close already and no work??
[22:02:02] <Ganneff> (we already have an hour, i want to close this soon)
[22:02:38] <bureado_UIO> Dunno if it can help, but maybe we can schedule bi-weekly phone calls if they aren't used to IRC.
[22:02:40] <marga> Ganneff: uhm... 4) Schedule (registering / call for papers / etc)
[22:02:41] <Ganneff> #topic Any other one having something to say that should be in this meeting? Speak up now or never
[22:03:22] <ari_boston> can i answer the two remaining questions about connectivity?
[22:03:23] <moray> doesn't need to be in the meeting, but I'd like to know from marga how getting rid of dc8 is going
[22:03:27] <h01ger> marga, Ganneff: please put that in the agenda
[22:03:39] <h01ger> (for dc9)
[22:03:40] <Ganneff> ari_boston: feel free to.
[22:03:42] <marga> moray: ah, we can add that.
[22:03:54] * marga edits DC9's agenda
[22:04:10] * Ganneff closes in 2 minutes unless something more pops up
[22:04:33] <ari_boston> re a server room, we have at least two machines at hosted at MIT right now, i'm sure we could fit a couple more temporarily given how many IT contacts we have there
[22:04:51] * xxv_boston is one of those contacts
[22:04:51] <ari_boston> though i'm not sure we'd actually need a dedicated room
[22:05:07] <Ganneff> would that room be accessible from random people during the conf (random as in admin team)
[22:05:19] <bureado_UIO> ari_boston: Fair enough. I assume we'd have to pay the 100 USD/port fees. Regarding the dedicated room, I wondered if someone could keep servers in their rooms.
[22:05:33] <xxv_boston> Ganneff: Probably not without the company of a MIT sponsor.
[22:05:38] <ari_boston> and re dc7, i don't think i can make it clear enough that networking will be a lot better than even edinburgh, especially since we wouldn't have to wire anything
[22:05:53] <bureado_UIO> Atta plus.
[22:05:57] <ari_boston> bureado_UIO: only if we wanted ports outside a server room, i'm assuming
[22:06:04] <ari_boston> like some random port in one of the conference rooms
[22:06:10] <Ganneff> #endmeeting
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