Started logging meeting in #debconf-team, times are UTC.
[20:00:44] * Tincho went to 3 debconf being a non-dd
[20:00:50] <gwolf> edrz: DebConf is a great way to get involved. And many people currently present are evidence.
[20:00:55] * gwolf shuts up for meeting
[20:01:08] * marga will do a general ping before starting
[20:01:18] <Ganneff> 21:01:13 [ adlpaf ] [ broonie ] [ FBI ] [ jvw ] [ moray ] [ svenk ]
[20:01:18] <Ganneff> 21:01:13 [ alphascorpii] [ bubulle_] [ fil ] [ madduck] [ MrBeige ] [ Tincho ]
[20:01:18] <Ganneff> 21:01:13 [ also ] [ bureado ] [ Ganneff ] [ mako ] [ muammar ] [ tokkee ]
[20:01:18] <Ganneff> 21:01:13 [ amaya ] [ cek ] [ gregoa ] [ marga ] [ paravoid ] [ Tolimar ]
[20:01:18] <Ganneff> 21:01:13 [ angasule_ ] [ Clint ] [ grisu_42 ] [ Maulkin] [ rmayorga ] [ Traveler_]
[20:01:18] <Ganneff> 21:01:13 [ apostols ] [ cpt_nemo] [ gwolf ] [ maxy ] [ romanella] [ urbec ]
[20:01:18] <Ganneff> 21:01:13 [ ari ] [ des ] [ h01ger ] [ meetbot] [ schultmc ] [ zer0mdq ]
[20:01:18] <Ganneff> 21:01:13 [ arthur ] [ edrz ] [ hermanr ] [ mhy ] [ sgran ]
[20:01:18] <Ganneff> 21:01:13 [ bdale ] [ ernesto ] [ Hydroxide] [ micah ] [ Sledge ]
[20:01:25] <marga> Ok, beat me to it.
[20:01:27] * edrz pongs
[20:01:33] <marga> So, let's start. We have 12 topics in the agenda, so please try to keep ontopic, and we'll try to restrict topic times to less than 5 minutes
[20:01:37] * zer0mdq pong
[20:01:40] * Hydroxide pongs
[20:01:44] <Ganneff> shutup
[20:01:46] <marga> #topic DebConf8 leftovers - money / travel reimbursements
[20:01:49] <h01ger> Hydroxide, no make that s/20000/100-200000/ i think
[20:02:02] <edrz> h01ger: context?
[20:02:03] * gwolf pongs
[20:02:05] <Tincho> the first item needs to be cleared for once, unless I missed something
[20:02:05] <marga> All Europe was done by December.
[20:02:11] * hermanr pong
[20:02:15] <marga> Ganneff / Hydroxide: could you please say if the US ones were done?
[20:02:40] <Hydroxide> marga: that's a schultmc question - I haven't been involved in SPI money handling in a while.
[20:02:44] <gwolf> I know this Mexican has not received reimbursement :) And several Brazilians were recently asking as well.
[20:02:44] <Ganneff> the us based people directly, i dont know. that was always with schultmc (paper stuff).
[20:02:47] <Hydroxide> marga: I can try to get in contact with him
[20:02:47] <marga> Hydroxide: right, sorry.
[20:02:52] <Clint> i believe that they were done
[20:02:53] <h01ger> edrz, 3min earlier. (more after/besides the meeting)
[20:02:59] <edrz> h01ger: ack
[20:03:02] <Ganneff> others going via the us, not yet, i think.
[20:03:03] * Traveler_ is here
[20:03:08] <marga> Ganneff: no, I meant money from the US to non-US.
[20:03:13] <marga> Ok, we should ping schultmc, then.
[20:03:16] <Ganneff> that not yet.
[20:03:21] <marga> Who volunteers?
[20:03:26] * Hydroxide sees if he has schultmc's number and will SMS him if so
[20:03:27] <Ganneff> and its more my fault than his, i do the work for it
[20:03:31] <h01ger> and ffis reimbursted the rest of the world? except america?
[20:03:45] <Ganneff> no.
[20:03:46] <edrz> i know mine came fairly quickly after dc8
[20:03:46] <marga> h01ger: Europe. SPI was for America+Japan
[20:03:52] <Hydroxide> marga: not Canada?
[20:03:54] * edrz in .us
[20:03:55] <marga> Yes, US people are done.
[20:04:00] <Ganneff> i sort through it this week and talk to schultmc for the leftovers
[20:04:08] <h01ger> .au / .nz, asia?
[20:04:10] <marga> non-US people in America or Japan, not done.
[20:04:12] <moray> do we need to email the people who should have got it and check?
[20:04:13] <marga> Ok.
[20:04:14] <Hydroxide> Ganneff: sounds good. I don't have his number.
[20:04:24] <marga> #ACTION Ganneff talks to schultmc about finishing this.
[20:04:31] <marga> #topic DebConf8 leftovers - lent equipment
[20:04:50] * h01ger updates his dc8-video-report, this topic reminds me of something :)
[20:05:06] <marga> I think everything was given back. Except for Karora's AP which was lost during the last day, and that we should somehow reimburse... Was there anything else missing?
[20:05:19] <Tincho> marga: the switches?
[20:05:31] <Tincho> (the expensive ones)
[20:05:32] <marga> Tincho: ah, but that's not lent. That's stuff to sell.
[20:05:33] <h01ger> marga, i think karora said it was ok
[20:05:38] <h01ger> pretty sure
[20:05:49] <Tincho> ok, I thought you referred to that too
[20:06:00] <marga> #INFO We still have a lot of stuff to sell, which we haven't sold, due to unknown accounting state regarding them
[20:06:09] <marga> h01ger: I know, I still feel bad about it.
[20:06:47] <marga> h01ger: anything from the video team that needs to be noted?
[20:06:48] <h01ger> marga, get over it ;) it happens. karora is really ok with it. if not, i'm sure he said so.
[20:06:52] <h01ger> no
[20:06:57] <marga> Ok, then.
[20:07:03] <moray> marga: will someone get an answer on selling stuff? presumably it will lose value the longer you wait
[20:07:04] <marga> #topic DebConf8 leftovers - final report / sponsorbags
[20:07:09] <h01ger> we'll reunite many parts at fosdem :)
[20:07:10] <edrz> i also recall karora not caring too much about the missing ap
[20:07:23] <marga> moray: yes, the accountant. We sent mail, we should re-send.
[20:07:27] <moray> great
[20:07:47] <zer0mdq> marga: final report meeting? this week?
[20:08:11] <marga> #INFO Regarding the Final Report, we are working on it. Most articles have been sent in. A few people need to be pinged about it. We should be having a RL meeting for that in the next few days.
[20:08:24] <marga> zer0mdq: yeah, we should coordinate after the meeting.
[20:08:34] * Ganneff feels guilty
[20:08:53] <marga> #INFO once the Final Report is done and printed, the sponsorbags will be sent. Everything else is ready, they are only waiting for the report.
[20:08:55] <edrz> marga: asfaik all vt equipment is accounted for, h01ger did a check w/everyone in preperation for fosdem.
[20:09:03] <marga> Ganneff: no need to. I only sent the mail on Saturday night.
[20:09:08] <h01ger> why do we use a special svn repo for this?
[20:09:15] <h01ger> and not debconf-(team|data)?
[20:09:18] <Ganneff> we always had.
[20:09:24] <edrz> h01ger: has a vt piece been submitted for the report?
[20:09:27] <h01ger> still doesnt answer why?
[20:09:31] <Ganneff> giving any random one acces who wants to help
[20:09:40] <h01ger> edrz, its sitting on my hd, waiting for an svn repo to show up
[20:09:57] <h01ger> Ganneff, thats the same for debconf-data, isnt it? (or was it -team?)
[20:09:58] <marga> I think we are missing the addresses for the sponsors, in order to mail them the bags. How do we go about getting them?
[20:10:11] <Ganneff> -data is open, the report is even more.
[20:10:26] <Ganneff> marga: ping the sponsoring people, ie those who made the contacts with them.
[20:10:33] <marga> Yeah, I guess.
[20:10:52] <marga> #ACTION Final Report team should ping the sponsor contacts in order to get the mailing addresses.
[20:10:57] <Sledge> marga: which ones are you missing?
[20:11:06] <marga> Sledge: I don't know, but I think most of them.
[20:11:20] <moray> marga: maybe now worth including new sponsor pack too? or maybe that will be too late....
[20:11:24] <Tincho> maybe it's better to put a text file in the svn with that?
[20:11:44] <marga> moray: might be... That's the next topic.
[20:11:55] <marga> #topic Sponsorpack for DebConf9 - Sponsors status: levels
[20:12:31] <marga> So, my personal opinion is that the levels worked last year, but we should probably re-think the amounts... What does the rest think?
[20:12:37] <Ganneff> ...
[20:12:38] <Tincho> I'm sure Ganneff will disagree here, but the levels seemed to work fine
[20:12:42] * h01ger nods marga
[20:12:45] <moray> yeah
[20:12:56] * gwolf agrees with levels
[20:12:57] <zer0mdq> +1 marga
[20:12:59] <Sledge> tbh, I'm not convinced they worked well
[20:13:13] <marga> Sledge: why?
[20:13:13] <Tincho> Sledge: why?
[20:13:15] <Tincho> he
[20:13:16] <Sledge> about the only place where we got anything more was from HP
[20:13:27] <edrz> i wonder if the amounts will need significant reworking w/current global financial climate.
[20:13:29] <Sledge> (that I saw)
[20:13:37] <Sledge> maybe it was different in .ar...
[20:13:45] <moray> edrz: well, possibly if set in comparison to last year's they could help there
[20:13:52] * Sledge nods edrz
[20:13:52] <Tincho> I felt it was more fair to differentiate the sponsors
[20:14:01] <marga> Yes.
[20:14:02] <moray> edrz: "if you want to stay the same level you need to keep the amount similar"
[20:14:03] <gwolf> Sledge: It's easy IMHO to approach a prospective sponsor with level suggestions... Maybe it's more a thing of marketing to tell them why they should give more. But not even informing them in which category they are in from the beginning... sounds worse
[20:14:30] <marga> Sledge: do you think that in any case we got a worse deal?
[20:14:32] <Sledge> I'm not going to argue here
[20:14:43] <Sledge> marga: I think we may have done in a couple of places
[20:14:50] <marga> Sledge: you did a lot of the work, so your opinion obviously matters a lot
[20:14:56] <Sledge> but I can't really point t any specific ones
[20:15:01] * h01ger nods Tincho
[20:15:03] <Sledge> more of a gut feel, I'm afraid
[20:15:17] <Sledge> which is why I'm not going to argeu too much here
[20:15:19] <marga> Sledge: what do you suggest?
[20:15:29] <Sledge> I'd say we go with levels again
[20:15:36] <Tincho> in .ar, it helped in at least one place: the company that agreed to an amount of money to get the stand in debianday
[20:15:36] <Sledge> but we'll need to work out new levels
[20:15:38] <edrz> so, are any local team folks here at the moment? and how much do we need them involved in sponsorship?
[20:15:44] <Ganneff> i bet, in the current situation of the world, the levels will help to get the sponsors to go down. but noone listened last year, so do whatever you want
[20:15:55] <marga> Sledge: yeah, agreed. Who would do that?
[20:15:59] <Sledge> I've also no idea how much money we need for DC9...
[20:16:05] * h01ger volunteers
[20:16:09] <Sledge> marga: good Q
[20:16:10] <marga> Ok
[20:16:14] <gwolf> IMHO, there are quite a bit of businesses in Spain which could get involved
[20:16:17] <moray> Ganneff: as I said above, with the situation it would be important to set the levels to try to discourage that
[20:16:20] <gwolf> Not only locally in Extremadura...
[20:16:25] <Sledge> we may need to talk to a few friendly sponsors and sound them out
[20:16:27] * h01ger nods gwolf
[20:16:31] <marga> #ACTION h01ger will re-think the sponsor levels.
[20:16:35] <gwolf> ...I think we should actively approach Spanish Debian people asking for help in that regard.
[20:16:52] <h01ger> i'll write a mail with suggestions to -team, but not before in 10 days
[20:16:55] <moray> I fear a lot of complains (old and new sponsors) will politely decline this year though :(
[20:16:56] <h01ger> but before next meeting
[20:17:00] <marga> gwolf: yes, of course, although that's kinda off-topic
[20:17:02] <moray> s/complains/companies/
[20:17:16] <marga> #topic Sponsorpack for DebConf9 - deadline for tshirts + stuff
[20:17:22] <gwolf> moray: Yes, that's expected. That's also why we need to be more aggresive :(
[20:17:24] <madduck> moray: all the more of a reason to try to get as much as possible so that we can build a cushion for years to come
[20:17:37] * h01ger is getting down by all this world crisis and pessismism here. every crisis is a chance, and free software is used to cut costs. we will be winners
[20:17:40] <madduck> Sledge: also, we *could* use debian funds to sponsor debconf, ey?
[20:17:51] <Sledge> madduck: we will, if needed
[20:18:00] <madduck> lca2008 made 100k AUD profit.
[20:18:03] <Sledge> but there are limits :-P
[20:18:06] <marga> I don't know if this was ever included in the sponsorpack, but I think that the usual time to be on the t-shirt is about 2 months (to allow for design and printing of said t-shirts).
[20:18:16] <Sledge> 2 months?
[20:18:18] <marga> So, that would be... May 15th
[20:18:26] <Sledge> shouldn't be more than ~3 weeks
[20:18:28] <madduck> i do wonder if there's anything we can do to attract more business-type people
[20:18:33] <Sledge> unless we're carrying Ts from the wrong side of thr world
[20:18:36] <edrz> h01ger: i agree FS will overall benefit ... just not sure about DC9
[20:18:48] <marga> Sledge: I think it's better to be prepared for problems. But we could go with May 31st
[20:18:52] <gwolf> Sledge: in fact, I was going to suggest so :)
[20:18:57] <gwolf> but that only adds ~1 wk
[20:19:04] <edrz> madduck: where do lca profits go?
[20:19:09] <madduck> edrz:
[20:19:27] <madduck> they get used for everything, including as a buffer for the next lca
[20:19:29] <edrz> ic. but, debconf has never been a for profit venture. different goals, i guess.
[20:19:34] <edrz> sure
[20:19:38] <gwolf> (_if_ it makes sense to print in the other side of the world, of course - that'd mean "check prices as early as possible")
[20:19:51] <madduck> a positive net sum != for profit
[20:19:51] <Tincho> Sledge: it took us a while to get all the shirts, but then again, we used a small company that was very cheap
[20:19:56] <marga> People, let's focus
[20:20:11] <marga> We are not talking about where to print the t-shirts, just when is the sponsors deadline.
[20:20:14] <Sledge> Maulkin: you about?
[20:20:17] <marga> Does anyone object to May 31st ?
[20:20:25] <Sledge> that sounds reasonable
[20:20:30] <gwolf> sounds quite reasonable
[20:20:31] <Hydroxide> yes
[20:20:34] <Hydroxide> souns reasonable
[20:20:35] <h01ger> sounds a bit late
[20:20:36] <marga> Ok.
[20:20:38] <Hydroxide> (not objecting)
[20:20:47] * h01ger neither objecting
[20:20:52] <marga> Ok, then.
[20:20:52] <gwolf> h01ger: it's not late at all (speaking as a previous-provideR)
[20:21:06] <marga> #AGREED Sponsors deadline to be on the T-shirt is May 31st.
[20:21:08] <h01ger> gwolf, we are known for not hitting deadlines :)
[20:21:12] <marga> #topic Sponsorpack for DebConf9 - anything else
[20:21:22] <gwolf> h01ger: it is _us_ the people of maņana, remember?
[20:21:37] <marga> So, moray mentioned sending the Sponsorpack included with the "thank you" bags.
[20:21:38] <h01ger> gwolf, yo que se
[20:21:43] <Sledge> Maulkin did offer to help with the sponsorpack
[20:21:52] <Sledge> has anybody done any work on it yet?
[20:21:56] <marga> For that, we would need the Sponsorpack in ~ 2 weeks...
[20:22:10] <moray> presumably much can be the same as previously, with new photos?
[20:22:15] <Sledge> exactly
[20:22:16] <marga> Sledge: I had thought it'd make sense to wait till the Final Report.
[20:22:16] * h01ger is confused by "thank you bags". dc9 aint over yet
[20:22:20] <Sledge> and with updated numbers
[20:22:23] <Ganneff> new photos, graphs adjusted
[20:22:31] <moray> h01ger: bags to dc8 sponsors
[20:22:31] <marga> h01ger: DC8's thank you bags
[20:22:42] * h01ger looks at topic
[20:22:43] <moray> Sledge, Ganneff: exactly
[20:22:57] <Sledge> marga: are you including DC8 sponsorship certificates for people too?
[20:23:04] * h01ger nods Sledge, Ganneff, moray
[20:23:06] <moray> h01ger: yes, it would be good to send the *dc9* sponsor pack to people who already sponsored *dc8*
[20:23:12] <h01ger> ah
[20:23:13] <marga> Sledge: not really, but we could add that.
[20:23:27] <Sledge> marga: it was something Maulkin and I did for DC7
[20:23:32] <marga> #ACTION (For DC8 sponsorbags) Include DC8 sponsorship certificates
[20:23:42] <h01ger> you've seen this wannabe sponsor in rt?
[20:23:43] <marga> Sledge: ok, please send me a model or something, and we'll do it.
[20:23:44] <Sledge> costs nothing, but can be a good thing to do to keep people sponsoring
[20:23:49] <Sledge> sure, will do
[20:24:03] <Sledge> please pester me if you've got nothing in the next few days
[20:24:09] <marga> Ok. So, if the Sponsorpack is ready before end of February we'll include it in the bags... Ok?
[20:24:15] <Ganneff> yes
[20:24:20] <Sledge> yup
[20:24:22] <moray> sounds good (to have it ready for that)
[20:24:34] <marga> #AGREED If the Sponsorpack is ready before end of February we'll include it in the DC8 thank you bags
[20:24:51] <marga> #topic Website content management
[20:24:59] * edrz likes having marga as chair. :)
[20:25:01] <Ganneff> umm. cms?
[20:25:15] <Ganneff> who wants what? this can mean anything :)
[20:25:20] <h01ger> cms can be anything, like git + wml
[20:25:28] <marga> I think this should be decided by whoever is going to add content to the website
[20:25:32] <h01ger> who wants to work on the website?
[20:25:34] <Ganneff> h01ger: this can also just mean we need people to do the actual svn commit
[20:25:35] <moray> "whatever website people want", yes
[20:25:37] <marga> And we don't have anyone in that role right now :-\
[20:25:44] <moray> website people should be local team plus some others...
[20:25:51] <edrz> at somepoint it was suggested that the wiki _be_ the website
[20:25:53] <Ganneff> Tincho doesnt want to anymore?
[20:25:56] <Ganneff> and where are the locals?
[20:26:02] <Ganneff> edrz: bad.
[20:26:04] <edrz> *some point, by someone ...
[20:26:04] <h01ger> btw, only shows the dates for dc9 in the site bar, not in the main page :(
[20:26:07] <marga> I think we all agree at this. The main problme is the lack of locals.
[20:26:14] <edrz> Ganneff: wasn't me.
[20:26:14] <Ganneff> edrz: we had a wiki for dc7. IMO the dc8 one was nicer. (*IMO*)
[20:26:15] <h01ger> edrz, /me waves
[20:26:21] <gwolf> At some point I suggested something Drupalish - but I agree, the people deciding should be those most directly in charge of it
[20:26:42] <Ganneff> no kind of wiki or "cms" will help if noone is there to do the work
[20:26:43] <h01ger> edrz, works very well for cccongresses. and last years layout was beautiful, too
[20:26:56] <Ganneff> what we have now is easy and flexible. yet it also needs people to ut info in.
[20:26:59] <marga> #AGREED The people in charge of adding content should decide this. Problem: there's noone in charge of adding content right now.
[20:27:06] <h01ger> but what Ganneff said. thing is, with a wiki i'm more inclined to do surf'by'help
[20:27:06] <Ganneff> can we take an action item to talk to the locals about getting more content?
[20:27:08] <moray> maybe we can bully Tincho to do some more; I could help with stuff too, but we really need locals to know the correct info
[20:27:08] <edrz> it's sort of tuff to discuss w/o localteam present as much of the info needed on main dc9 site needs to be provided by them :-/
[20:27:31] <marga> Who volunteers to "talk to the locals about the website" ?
[20:27:31] <h01ger> we need webpeople. they dont have to be locals. they need to be able to query locals
[20:27:48] <Ganneff> we need locals that get us information
[20:28:23] * Ganneff sighs. gah. ok.
[20:28:28] <Sledge> so where are the locals?
[20:28:30] <Ganneff> i talk to cek to get more local contacts for it
[20:28:33] <Ganneff> Sledge: not here.
[20:28:40] <Sledge> sigh
[20:28:44] <moray> Sledge: it's hard to know if they exist
[20:28:48] <Sledge> are the still alive?
[20:28:49] <marga> #ACTION Ganneff will talk to Cesar and try to for a group of locals for the website.
[20:28:56] <marga> Sledge: we don't know.
[20:29:07] <marga> I'm skipping the next two points because of that...
[20:29:12] <marga> #topic Timeline (registration / call for papers / etc)
[20:29:13] <edrz> besides cek and antonio, who else is actually on localteam?
[20:29:14] <gwolf> marga: For the website and for the conference organization :-/
[20:29:17] <Ganneff> we will provide them with whatever shell/irc/whatever they need, just if we get them visible.
[20:29:18] <Sledge> when did anybody last speak to them?
[20:29:20] <h01ger> marga, which points did you skip?
[20:29:30] <moray> Sledge: h01ger seems to have had messages by phone
[20:29:31] <Tincho> sorry, I had someone at the door
[20:29:48] <marga> h01ger: local team updates, was planning on adding a point about this problem later on. Let's do this one first
[20:30:05] <moray> did we discuss timeline at all yet?
[20:30:09] <Ganneff> yes.
[20:30:12] <Tincho> about the website, I think nobody else offered to work on it, so I kept the svn+templatetoolkit scheme
[20:30:13] <marga> So, back in 2008 we had said that registration and CFP should start in Jan 15. We are now at Feb 2, and neither have started.
[20:30:14] <Ganneff> and we are past the point we had set
[20:30:18] <marga> What should we do?
[20:30:19] <moray> Ganneff: aha, that's what I thought
[20:30:21] <edrz> cfp can probably happen w/o localteam, i suppose
[20:30:25] <Ganneff> yes
[20:30:27] <edrz> but reg, can't really.
[20:30:47] <h01ger> marga, start them now? :)
[20:30:47] <Ganneff> but not without us admins doing work. we did plan to upgrade pentabarf to the latest, but i think we settle with something easier:
[20:30:49] <zer0mdq> we need more info about "the new accomodation thingy"
[20:30:51] <gwolf> edrz: it can happen. We can just not provide some specific lodging details yet
[20:30:59] <edrz> well, i mean, penta can be openned, but we don't know arival details, travel plans, etc.
[20:31:02] <zer0mdq> before starting with the reg. right?
[20:31:02] <h01ger> edrz, why cant reg happen without localteam? we need penta?
[20:31:03] <moray> gwolf: right, but it's much easier to collect all info together
[20:31:04] <Ganneff> it did work for dc8, so why not just go and reuse it as it is for dc9, with little changes as needed?
[20:31:09] <h01ger> s/penta?/penta!/
[20:31:11] <gwolf> but we can start getting people's intentions and alks
[20:31:12] <Ganneff> which is what im doing this week. not today
[20:31:15] <Ganneff> but this week.
[20:31:21] * h01ger nods and thanks Ganneff
[20:31:26] <marga> Ganneff: ok.
[20:31:35] <moray> Ganneff: right, we need e.g. the correct list for accomm. choices -- but for now we could just put sponsored/none I guess
[20:31:36] <gwolf> moray: I agree, people don't like being pinged for extra info... still, I do feel we should open registration asap
[20:31:37] <marga> Ganneff: when do you think would be a good day to open registrations?
[20:31:40] <Ganneff> so we can gather who wants to come and stuff
[20:31:48] <Ganneff> more details can be done later.
[20:31:53] <moray> Ganneff: yes, and if we don't start soon fewer will come I guess...
[20:31:54] <Ganneff> marga: end of this week/early next.
[20:32:02] <Ganneff> looking at my work list, i bet weekend will have most time for this.
[20:32:03] <marga> Ganneff: ok.
[20:32:05] <moray> Ganneff: people really don't like to book travel before they register
[20:32:22] <Ganneff> wrong. people dont like it before they get sponsored. those we can never help. :)
[20:32:26] <marga> #ACTION Ganneff will work on Penta to make it ready for registration. So that CFP and start of registration can be done by next week.
[20:32:33] <gwolf> (as long as localteam does not change the dates... :-/ )
[20:32:33] <Sledge> if we can make it sound less likely that travel sponsorship will be available this year, that would be good
[20:32:38] <edrz> keeping penta the same seems a good idea to me. less work also for vt.
[20:32:44] <h01ger> we can modify room types later, cant we? and say so right from the start
[20:32:45] <Ganneff> Sledge: we will.
[20:32:49] <moray> Sledge: and probably avoid making firm statements on accomm too
[20:32:52] <marga> Now, the other deadlines: end-of-sponsorship, end-of-cfp, end-of-tshirt
[20:33:02] <Ganneff> marga: adjust by the time we lost now.
[20:33:06] <moray> (we were usually vague, but seems higher risk this time)
[20:33:08] <Ganneff> going from initial time frames.
[20:33:12] <Ganneff> that seems easiest
[20:33:15] <marga> Ganneff: I don't think we had those ones.
[20:33:18] <moray> Ganneff: well, not all need adjusted forward from that, do they?
[20:33:32] <Ganneff> we did have points in time for them
[20:33:55] <marga> I'd say end-of-tshirt should be May 31st. It means that if you register after that you aren't granted a t-shirt and conference bag. That's the easy one.
[20:33:55] <Ganneff> for now we only need to know end of cfp, as that should be included in the mail next week
[20:34:16] <moray> yes, we don't need to announce end-of-sponsorship stuff yet
[20:34:17] <marga> Yes. End-of-cfp and end-of-sponsorship...
[20:34:18] <Ganneff> oh, and the "end of registration where you can hope for sponsorship".
[20:34:30] <marga> moray: I think it's better if we do.
[20:34:36] <moray> well, we don't *need* to announce that if we don't konw
[20:34:41] <Ganneff> moray: yes we should announce it.
[20:34:45] <moray> worse to change it later, but yes better to announce if we can
[20:34:59] <Ganneff> even if we dont sponsor, saying is "if you reg before that, you have a little hope at least" is better than not telling at all
[20:35:02] <marga> I think the original deadline was March 31st, which seems a bit close. So April 15th?
[20:35:11] <Ganneff> people might expect sponsorship then.
[20:35:18] <Ganneff> marga: fine by me
[20:35:35] * h01ger was thinking of april 1st
[20:35:38] <h01ger> :)
[20:35:42] <h01ger> but 15th is fine with me too
[20:35:48] <Ganneff> h01ger: well. dont think. it hurts. i know, i tried.
[20:35:50] <moray> whatever was the time-before-conf before...
[20:35:52] <h01ger> diceroll
[20:35:53] <muammar> marga, april 15th sounds good.
[20:35:56] <h01ger> Ganneff, convinced
[20:36:12] <bdale> regarding the sponsorship discussion, I know the amount HP will provide this year, and no adjustment of Debconf offered levels will be likely to influence that amount
[20:36:15] <marga> Ok.
[20:36:29] <marga> #AGREED CFP and Registration close on April 15th.
[20:36:45] <sgran> in the midst of a global depression, HP won't splurge in excgange for a gold star?
[20:36:56] <edrz> bdale: but, there is a firm commitment that is unlikely to change?
[20:37:11] <marga> So, here comes the extra topic
[20:37:15] <moray> edrz: he didn't say if the amount was zero :p
[20:37:26] <edrz> hrm.
[20:37:28] <h01ger> gah. anto just mailed me, having problems with his irc client...
[20:37:30] <marga> #TOPIC Local team: what do we do to fix the lack of contact?
[20:37:43] <h01ger> at least he will be at fosdem, so some people can get to know him.
[20:37:45] <moray> well, I think we need to start treating it as a problem
[20:37:48] <edrz> web-irc clients for localteam?
[20:37:49] <moray> the meeting time was chosen to suit them
[20:37:54] <marga> Yes, I agree with moray
[20:37:55] <Ganneff> h01ger: i offer them all an account on a machine for irc.
[20:37:56] <moray> and we don't have anyone anyway
[20:38:02] <Ganneff> bouncer, irssi. also mail. whatever
[20:38:04] <h01ger> Ganneff, for fuitzure thats good
[20:38:06] <Hydroxide> h01ger: he shouldn't be trying to fix that during the meeting - he should be on IRC most of the time, even idle if necessary.
[20:38:08] <moray> if we didn't know them from before we would be extremely worried
[20:38:20] <h01ger> Hydroxide, dont tell me :)
[20:38:20] <Tincho> they can't use xchat or mirc for that matter?
[20:38:22] <edrz> h01ger: they are mailing you privately? any reason they do not mail -team?
[20:38:23] <Sledge> I'm still extremely worried
[20:38:26] <marga> moray: I'm already extremely worried.
[20:38:31] * Hydroxide is also extremely worried.
[20:38:38] <Ganneff> marga: i include text in my mail to cek, but if people speak at fosdem too, thats also good
[20:38:54] <moray> marga: as it is I'm pretty worried, but not quite at "give up and cancel/find a new venue"
[20:38:55] <marga> #ACTION Ganneff will also talk with Cesar about this
[20:39:01] <gwolf> I hold hopes they will get the act together :) But they need pressure!
[20:39:02] <Ganneff> and whatever it is they miss, if debconf can provide (as we sure can with shells and mail), we will.
[20:39:05] <Clint> is there a viable plan B?
[20:39:07] <marga> #ACTION People at FOSDEM can talk to anto.
[20:39:08] <moray> (just close to that!)
[20:39:15] <Ganneff> Clint: have a free year.
[20:39:21] * Clint nods.
[20:39:28] <marga> gwolf: it's not so much that they need pressure, but that there are things that can't be done without communication.
[20:39:32] <gwolf> Clint: how many people can comfortably fit in your house? :)
[20:39:43] <Ganneff> they do lots of stuff. its just they dont tell us much, currently.
[20:39:43] <edrz> i think we could #AGREE that we are all worried.
[20:39:48] <h01ger> edrz, maybe debian perceived as hostile? just joking but i'm really a bit tired of this pessimism (and quite recently i was very annoued by debians hostility. a break made that better, but for how long. see obey athur lis post about intimidated)
[20:39:48] <gwolf> marga: I agree. But we need pressure to make them understand that involvement is fundamental
[20:40:02] <marga> #AGREED We are all extremely worried
[20:40:03] <Ganneff> now, can we make this an "action - people talk at fosdem, i mail cek"
[20:40:05] <Ganneff> hehe
[20:40:06] <marga> edrz: there :)
[20:40:13] <moray> we really need to be 100% sure before the CFP etc. that the conference genuinely will happen correctly and that local team involvement will be far better from now
[20:40:23] <h01ger> the way to contact them, btw, is mail to -team. they are subscribed. no real need to mail them privatly neither :)
[20:40:30] <zer0mdq> LOL
[20:40:40] <Ganneff> h01ger: some mails are better in private.
[20:40:42] <h01ger> zer0mdq, its totally not funny
[20:40:45] <h01ger> Ganneff, yup
[20:40:52] <Ganneff> now, can we go on?
[20:40:55] <marga> Ok.
[20:40:58] <zer0mdq> not the situation but the log was
[20:41:00] <Ganneff> not much we can achieve here, right now.
[20:41:00] <marga> #topic Next Meeting
[20:41:04] <Ganneff> 4 weeks?
[20:41:07] <h01ger> 3
[20:41:10] <h01ger> in february
[20:41:14] <h01ger> we need to get more confidence
[20:41:17] <zer0mdq> 1st monday of march?
[20:41:18] <marga> h01ger said 3, and I agree. Since we had no locals in this one.
[20:41:18] <Ganneff> thats cebit time for me.
[20:41:20] <moray> Ganneff: well, I'd like one soon with the local team present
[20:41:29] <Ganneff> moray: ha.
[20:41:32] <moray> like "as soon as possible"
[20:41:37] <edrz> h01ger: debconf != debian, imho. debconf does not seem hostile to me.
[20:41:37] <h01ger> Ganneff, at 20 utc?
[20:41:37] <marga> Do we already have the date for DC10?
[20:41:37] <Ganneff> moray: ha ha.
[20:41:38] <h01ger> ;)
[20:41:40] <sgran> the rest of Feb is kind of rough, I think
[20:41:44] <sgran> FOSDEM, relase, CBIT
[20:41:47] <Ganneff> marga: we dont even have the venue
[20:41:54] <Ganneff> or do you mean the meeting?
[20:41:58] <Ganneff> oh, no. not decided
[20:42:00] <marga> I meant the next meeting :)
[20:42:02] <Tincho> are they telling why they don't come to meetings?
[20:42:03] <Ganneff> still open the poll
[20:42:10] <marga> Ganneff: ok.
[20:42:14] <moray> (item 1: the local team explain which of our family were suddenly ill etc. such that they couldn't come)
[20:42:39] <Hydroxide> marga: is the dc10 meeting poll. I think everyone but venezuela has put their availability in for that meeting
[20:42:47] <Hydroxide> marga: oh, I have to ping ari about it too
[20:42:51] <Hydroxide> (for boston)
[20:42:53] <marga> Ok... It's true that Feb looks like a busy month.
[20:43:07] <gwolf> I think venezuela are dropping out of the bid... have they shown any activity lately?
[20:43:13] <ari> what are we pinging about me
[20:43:14] <marga> We can leave it till march, _if_ we get the venue updates through the list.
[20:43:16] <Hydroxide> err, wrong meeting
[20:43:19] <Hydroxide> *wrong poll
[20:43:19] <h01ger> Ganneff, wouldnt 20 utc work for you despite cebit?
[20:43:20] <marga> h01ger: do you think that's likely?
[20:43:21] <moray> but in my view we really should have proper feedback from the local team before we send a CFP
[20:43:26] <Ganneff> yes, it will work.
[20:43:28] <Hydroxide> sorry, I'll shut up now until I find the right poll
[20:43:46] <h01ger> marga, i dont like that. we have more stzuff to discuss
[20:43:53] <moray> marga: and the "here are the rest of the local team, they will communicate from now on"
[20:44:01] <Ganneff> i dislike another in feb
[20:44:01] <h01ger> so, as it works for Ganneff, today in 3 weeks?!
[20:44:11] <gwolf> (sorry for the noise - fell off the net and didn't get the right thread)
[20:44:13] <marga> Does it?
[20:44:16] <Ganneff> 2 march sounds ok.
[20:44:27] <moray> that's four weeks in my view
[20:44:31] <h01ger> Ganneff, sorry. remind me to buy you a cake next time we meet. (i do mean that, fwiw)
[20:44:39] <marga> Ganneff: h01ger wants 26 Feb
[20:44:48] <gwolf> there are many points that make me feel uneasy because of the lack of localteam at this meeting
[20:44:51] <edrz> Ganneff: this meeting at the moment is on jan. 33rd.
[20:44:52] <Hydroxide> marga: correct DC10 decision meeting doodle poll, with every bid represented except venezuela if they still count:
[20:44:53] <gwolf> I'd really prefer 26feb
[20:44:55] <Ganneff> brrr.
[20:45:04] <Hydroxide> marga: and that's really close to 26feb
[20:45:06] <zer0mdq> 20080226 @ 20 UTC ?
[20:45:12] <muammar> Ganneff, me too. 26 feb sounds better.
[20:45:16] <Hydroxide> marga: it might mean two meetings in consecutive days for dc9 and then dc10
[20:45:26] * muammar sry gwolf
[20:45:26] * marga doesn't care, but would rather have it earlier, because of the local team issues and a lot of other issues
[20:45:28] * h01ger suggests to ask localteam even though i dont like to suggest it here+now cause i fear the reply
[20:45:28] <Ganneff> i dislike the 26, not sure i can be around there.
[20:45:30] <Tincho> a thursday?
[20:45:41] <h01ger> 23rd
[20:45:43] <h01ger> today in 3 or 4 weeks
[20:45:44] <Ganneff> and its not our usual monday.
[20:45:46] <moray> marga: I would rather have it this week...
[20:45:48] <edrz> this meeting was meant to happen in Jan, so it's late, so another Feb meeting is needed to "get on track"
[20:45:55] * h01ger suggests again to ask localteam which of the two dates..
[20:46:05] <h01ger> hi antorecio !!!!1
[20:46:06] <Ganneff> a local team guy. i cant believe it.
[20:46:07] <gwolf> when is fosdem? Next week, right?
[20:46:10] <Ganneff> yes
[20:46:15] <h01ger> gwolf, yes
[20:46:20] <antorecio> hi all, sorry for the delay
[20:46:24] <Ganneff> and the week after is release.
[20:46:31] <h01ger> antorecio, we missed you and 5 of your collegues ;-)
[20:46:31] <gwolf> h01ger: Please make the poor guys feel badly needed :)
[20:46:36] <gwolf> antorecio: we badly missed you!
[20:46:39] <antorecio> juas
[20:46:44] <h01ger> jeje
[20:46:55] <Ganneff> now. lets finish this one topic please.
[20:47:00] <Ganneff> then we can go on with local team foo.
[20:47:03] <marga> antorecio: hi... We are trying to figure out a date for the next meeting. Candidates right now are Feb 23 and March 2 (both Mondays, at this same hour). Which one would suit you and cek better?
[20:47:03] <angasule_> df
[20:47:14] <h01ger> antorecio, the meetingin is already over.. but we have logs. and what marga said :)
[20:47:31] <moray> (let me guess: "whatever's further")
[20:47:33] <marga> h01ger: not over. 13 minutes left. We can do the missing topic if antorecio is quick enough.
[20:47:41] <edrz> angasule_: + anyone else who can possibly attend from local team?
[20:47:41] <h01ger> heh
[20:47:42] <moray> h01ger: I don't know if it's over, we have the skipped more-important points
[20:47:48] <edrz> grr
[20:47:53] <angasule_> edrz: :)
[20:47:55] <edrz> antorecio: + anyone else who can possibly attend from local team?
[20:48:12] * gwolf has to leave quite soon...
[20:48:26] * h01ger thinks atm cfp + registration was most important. and sponsorback. _then_, venue+network ;)
[20:48:41] <Ganneff> dont think, go on please.
[20:48:54] <marga> Ok... I'll go with the ambivalence
[20:49:06] <moray> did we lose antorecio already?
[20:49:08] <Tincho> so....
[20:49:21] <marga> #AGREED Next meeting might be on Feb 23rd or Mar 2nd, at 20 UTC. To be talked with local team in order to get them here.
[20:49:34] <marga> #topic Local team updates - Venue status
[20:49:34] <h01ger> antorecio, very brief summary of the meeting:
[20:49:39] <marga> antorecio: you still there?
[20:49:45] <madduck> we agreed on a A or B meeting time???
[20:49:46] <antorecio> feb 23 is ok
[20:49:59] <Ganneff> h01ger: thank you for telling him a webpage to read, instead of chatting in here... :)
[20:50:07] <h01ger> madduck, yes, but thats only half the story
[20:50:12] <h01ger> Ganneff, you're welcome :)
[20:50:13] <marga> antorecio: ok, then.
[20:50:24] <marga> #AGREED (For the previous topic).
[20:50:30] <marga> #AGREED (For the previous topic): Feb 23rd.
[20:50:55] <Tincho> I there's time, I'd like to put an AOB for the website, since I was out for 5 minutes when it was discussed
[20:50:56] <Ganneff> antorecio: dont join #agreed, thats only a way to get the bot do what we want.
[20:50:58] <marga> antorecio: now, please could you give us an update of what's going on with accomodation and the conference venue?
[20:51:05] * gwolf leaves - continue having fun.
[20:51:24] <antorecio> sorry but it is my firts time , juas
[20:51:52] <marga> antorecio: we've been left in the dark for the past months and we feel a bit bad about not having any info. Please tell us what is the current status.
[20:52:30] <antorecio> accomodation and the conference venue is ok
[20:52:39] <antorecio> we have a new residence
[20:52:55] <antorecio> for 70 persons +/-
[20:53:37] <Tincho> 70 in total?
[20:53:43] <antorecio> there are changes in the regional goverment
[20:53:45] <h01ger> new = plus to the one we already had?
[20:54:44] <edrz> changes ... ?
[20:54:47] <Hydroxide> antorecio: usually 200-400 people come to debconf and need accomodation
[20:54:47] <antorecio> plus
[20:54:52] <bdale> edrz: I just confirmed that HP's sponsorship for this year is fully approved and we're just waiting for our finance folks to issue a check to SPI
[20:55:02] <antorecio> yes ok, thare are a lot of hotels
[20:55:03] <edrz> bdale: cheers
[20:55:25] <h01ger> bdale, cheers!
[20:55:26] <antorecio> no problem whith the acomodations
[20:55:27] <moray> bdale: that sounds great
[20:55:27] <marga> antorecio: how many residences with how much space do we have?
[20:55:55] <antorecio> today 2 residen about 220 persons
[20:56:01] <marga> antorecio: ok.
[20:56:13] <Tincho> lot of people in hotels then :(
[20:56:17] <antorecio> in the albergue another 150
[20:56:27] <antorecio> +/-
[20:56:35] <marga> antorecio: we are closing the end of the meeting. Would it be possible for you to send a main with as much detail as possible regarding the accommodation and venue status?
[20:56:41] <antorecio> no a lot of peoples in hotels
[20:56:49] <marga> a mail, not a main, sorry
[20:57:12] <Hydroxide> antorecio: if it's easier to send the mail in spanish, then send it in spanish - someone else can translate
[20:57:24] <marga> Yes, that too.
[20:57:45] * zer0mdq offers to help antorecio with the translation if needed
[20:57:54] <antorecio> marga, the next weekend , in brussels i speak whit debian people for the acomodatios
[20:58:10] <antorecio> ok, i need translation
[20:58:18] <antorecio> my english es una mierda
[20:58:19] <Tincho> antorecio: if you can send an email, that's better, so we all get to know what's going on
[20:58:25] <h01ger> antorecio, if you want a shell account to permanently run irssi, you can have one. i think also to run ctrlproxy, so you can continue to use xchat. but i really suggest you (and other people from the team) are on irc _every day_. _really_. do it as part of your paid work :D (i know you're probably busy, but we really need to keep contact...)
[20:58:29] <marga> antorecio: that's great, but it would be good to have it in an email in the debconf-team list, so that everyone can be updated, not just those that can go to FOSDEM.
[20:58:34] <edrz> np. there are many here whose .es is quite good.
[20:58:47] <antorecio> ok, io dont have tiem for this
[20:58:50] <Tincho> yeah, we can translate
[20:58:59] <h01ger> antorecio, worst case send mail in .es and zer0mdq or whoever can translate
[20:59:01] <antorecio> thanks tincho
[20:59:09] <zer0mdq> yep, no problem
[20:59:14] <h01ger> but send .es mail to the list :)
[20:59:20] <Tincho> antorecio: you don't need to be chatting all day long, just hang on and maybe answer a question or two
[20:59:23] <h01ger> so the english crowd sees a bit progress :)
[20:59:41] <moray> so people don't need to wait months for answers
[20:59:51] <Ganneff> now, we told it him 5 times. anything more for the meeting?
[20:59:53] <edrz> and some of us with poor spanish like to try to improve. :)
[21:00:07] <marga> antorecio: you don't have time... Not even tomorrow or the day after? It'd be really nice to know this stuff, because we have to send the invitation mails.
[21:00:47] <zer0mdq> marga: end it, we can continue to talk in .es with antorecio about the mail an all that
[21:00:52] <marga> ok.
[21:00:52] <muammar> antorecio, if you don't have time you should request to your other localteam to help you on that.
[21:00:57] <zer0mdq> it would be easier/faster
[21:00:58] <marga> #TOPIC Any Other Business
[21:01:06] <marga> Tincho had an AOB regarding the Website.
[21:01:07] <Tincho> I had one
[21:01:22] <Tincho> as I was saying, I did s little work on the website
[21:01:26] <Tincho> so I kept the same scheme
[21:01:34] <Tincho> some people wanted cms and/or wiki thingies
[21:01:46] <Tincho> but, bottom line is that important stuff is to have content
[21:01:58] <Ganneff> hehe, what i said.
[21:02:05] <marga> Tincho: we basically already agreed on all that :)
[21:02:09] * h01ger suggests Tincho keeps on going. there is noone else doing the work :)
[21:02:20] <Tincho> If anyone wants to take over the website, I have no problem, but if I'm going to do it again, i'll prefer it this way :)
[21:02:29] <marga> madduck: you there? Did you want to talk about the "getting more professional attendees" that you mentioned earlier on?
[21:02:37] <Ganneff> we are happy for you doing it
[21:02:41] <Tincho> good then
[21:02:46] <Ganneff> even better, a you can talk in .es with them
[21:02:48] <Ganneff> which should help.
[21:02:55] <Tincho> yup
[21:02:56] <Ganneff> kjust, you need to be the one initiating it.
[21:02:58] <Ganneff> i think
[21:03:04] <Ganneff> and asking for content.
[21:03:15] <marga> #ACTION Tincho will go on as webmaster, using the templatetoolkit system used for DC8
[21:03:15] <Tincho> ok, marga: #action?
[21:03:18] <Tincho> that
[21:03:23] <moray> I have another AOB
[21:03:28] <marga> moray: go ahead
[21:03:29] <Tincho> marga: and that I should peing localteam
[21:03:32] <Tincho> ping
[21:03:35] <moray> what measurable change will we look for to be happy the local team will actually work well enough for DebConf9 to happen successfully in Extremadura? it seems clear it won't happen successfully if things keep as they are
[21:03:56] <antorecio> Well, on Saturday in Brussels to inform you of all developments
[21:03:56] <antorecio> reassured that all is well, no fear
[21:04:21] <Tincho> antorecio: we're all a little nervous, to be honest
[21:04:58] <marga> antorecio: you have to understand that we have are used to a different level of communication.
[21:05:09] <antorecio> ok, i understand but all is ok
[21:05:19] <antorecio> i understand marga,
[21:05:23] <marga> antorecio: there are many things that have to be worked as a team, you can't do it on your own, and if we don't know what's going on, we can't do them.
[21:05:56] <ari> is there a dc9 localteam channel?
[21:06:02] * h01ger wonders if we should end the meeting formally, so that you can switch to spanish for some time, to better explain and exchange?
[21:06:19] <h01ger> (and yeah, i know, we need english)
[21:06:20] <edrz> ari: dc9 localteam does not use irc much, that has been part of the problem.
[21:06:32] <ari> do they use their list?
[21:06:41] <marga> h01ger: but moray would like to establish some criteria, I think.
[21:06:49] * edrz shrugs ...
[21:06:49] <moray> yeah
[21:06:57] <Ganneff> we cant do that right now. not in a reasonable time.
[21:06:58] <h01ger> ok, i'm out. /me sees to many people seeing problems. (s/out/out for now/)
[21:07:09] <moray> at the moment it seems like we'll just drift on, post a CFP etc. and vaguely hope for a change
[21:07:15] <sgran> who will be at Fosdem? I know h0lger will, anyone else?
[21:07:17] <h01ger> marga, still first explain the situation better. antorecio hasnt been here often,,,
[21:07:24] <marga> h01ger: I know, I know.
[21:07:26] <sgran> I'd like to have a chat about this there, if possible
[21:07:29] <Ganneff> i dislike the current situation, much, but i do trust them enough that they actually do work and stuff. yet, they arent used to our way. we need to help them to get used to it.
[21:07:31] <h01ger> sgran, antorecio, Sledge
[21:07:41] <sgran> anyone else from localteam
[21:07:41] <marga> moray: can we give it a little bit more time? And close the meeting here?
[21:07:43] <sgran> ?
[21:07:43] <Ganneff> sgran: thats planned to happen
[21:07:52] <moray> marga: I agree we're over time on the meeting
[21:07:53] <sgran> yes, I just want to know who to look for
[21:08:01] <sgran> yes, let's close the meeting
[21:08:11] <marga> Ok... So...
[21:08:35] <marga> #AGREED We'll work hard with the local team to improve communication, and might come back to this problem in the future if we don't see any solution
[21:08:38] <marga> #endmeeting

Meeting ended.

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