17:03:45 <moray> #startmeeting DebConf global team meeting
17:03:45 <MeetBot> Meeting started Fri Jan  6 17:03:45 2012 UTC.  The chair is moray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:03:45 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
17:04:00 <moray> #topic DebConf13 bids status
17:04:18 <moray> hi everyone (this time within the meeting log ;)
17:04:35 <moray> if you haven't been following closely, see http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf13 for this topic
17:04:56 <moray> we appear to have two still-active bids, unless anyone has other information?
17:05:18 <aigarius> wasn't there another bid on the list?
17:05:38 <moray> though it's not (quite) too late for another one to wake up, traditionally we haven't been all that strict about deadlines, we've just taken lateness into account as a piece of information about the bids
17:05:51 <moray> aigarius: possibly, which one are you thinking of?
17:06:05 <Sledge> still working on the Cambridge bid...
17:06:17 <Sledge> sorry, running late on it
17:06:29 <Sledge> waiting on info from venues right now for cost estimates
17:06:54 <gwolf> moray: Yes, I would not consider other bids strictly-dead. This is still early January
17:07:11 <gwolf> But we should ping them and give a maximum time to be considered
17:07:18 <moray> Sledge: ah right.  it would be good if you could update the wiki to the current status, and post a bit more on the status to the list, even if the status message is about not being ready
17:07:32 <gwolf> #action gwolf pings the list of bidders to check for activity
17:07:38 <Sledge> moray: yeah, will try to do that this w/e
17:07:42 <moray> gwolf: right.  normally we let the 'ready' bids choose a date for the first meeting
17:07:42 <gwolf> (was it #action?)
17:07:48 <gwolf> agree
17:08:03 <moray> and we can do that better on the list
17:08:22 * h01ger wouldnt extend the deadline much. ie why didnt you ask for extending it when the deadline hadnt passed? ;)
17:08:27 <moray> so unless there's other news beyond Sledge's, we may be done on this topic for now?
17:09:01 <moray> h01ger: right -- like I said, we can take into account lateness when considering the bids -- and I agree we shouldn't postpone the first meeting if multiple reasonable bids seem to exist
17:09:53 <moray> gwolf: if you're pinging bids, will you do the "choose a first meeting date" bit too?
17:10:11 <gwolf> yes - I'll set a doodle thingy
17:10:12 <h01ger> and thats the deadline?
17:10:17 <gwolf> do you like now+2wk?
17:10:32 <h01ger> (whatever date will be decided)
17:10:46 <gwolf> right, but around then
17:10:54 <moray> gwolf: it's really up to the bids, though I suppose if they want it in 3 months we might want to argue
17:10:59 <aigarius> a deadline for the deadline is useful for sure :)
17:11:21 <moray> yeah, two week deadline for knowing what's happening? :)
17:12:14 <h01ger> Sledge?
17:12:27 <gwolf> #action gwolf includes a Doodle poll for the meeting in around two weeks
17:12:58 <moray> #action to determine when the bids want the bid status meeting to be held
17:13:06 <moray> #action (see http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/BidProcess)
17:13:33 <moray> I had forgotten we had a better name than "first meeting" now!
17:13:45 <moray> #topic Update from DebConf12 local team
17:13:54 <moray> ok, so what's new with DebConf12?
17:13:57 <leogg> right
17:14:07 <moray> I assume we now have much lower venue prices, and $100,000s raised from sponsors? :)
17:14:08 <leogg> I'll give you an update on what the different teams have done in the past weeks
17:14:26 <leogg> venue/hotels
17:14:43 <leogg> we did a very early/preliminary budget draft to have a better understanding of the actual costs of dc12
17:15:00 <leogg> the venue is *still* quite expensive
17:15:19 <leogg> we're going to schedule a meeting with the crowne plaza hotel in order to negotiate a better price
17:15:30 <leogg> next week, if it's possible
17:15:46 <leogg> the hotel rooms are also expensive at crowne plaza hotel
17:16:12 <leogg> the main reason is that we were offered single and double almost exclusively
17:16:33 <leogg> we're going to ask the hotel to provide extra beds and give us another quotation
17:16:48 <leogg> hopefully with better prices this time
17:17:24 <leogg> we're also going for a significant discount, as we're going to be the only guests at the hotels at that time
17:17:41 <leogg> accesibility
17:18:15 <leogg> the dc12 accesibility team visited the hotel and venue with two experts from the local handicapped organizations. according to the accessibility checklist
17:18:44 <leogg> http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf12/AccessibilityChecklist , the venue looks OK for handicapped people
17:18:59 <h01ger> \o/
17:19:15 <moray> do you have detailed photos from this?
17:19:20 <DrDub> (well done)
17:19:25 <leogg> the only "BIG problems" are the restrooms for the restaurant at the hotel and the road between the hotel and the convention center
17:19:44 <leogg> moray, roirobo has some photos... we will add them to the debconf album
17:20:01 <leogg> also a detailed report from roirobo some time soonish :)
17:20:18 <moray> good
17:20:19 <n0rman> roirobo: please :)
17:20:23 <leogg> debian day
17:20:32 <moray> presumably there's time to work on these "big problems"?
17:20:38 <leogg> the debian day team visited the venue, took photos and measured the stands area
17:20:48 <leogg> moray, yes :)
17:21:06 <n0rman> leogg: can we work in the road betweern the hotel and convention center?
17:21:16 <leogg> https://gallery.debconf.org/v/dc12bids/managua/ddayvenue/
17:21:31 <roirobo> n0rman We can't build another road... :P
17:21:56 <leogg> n0rman, we can solve this somehow... it's not a HUGE problem
17:22:09 <roirobo> the problem on the road is the inclination
17:22:15 <n0rman> leogg: yup, it's not huge, so ok, let see if we can solve it :)
17:22:25 <DrDub> can we get a shuttle?
17:22:29 <roirobo> the restrooms on the restaurants...
17:22:44 <rmayorga> shuttles are always a problem
17:22:45 <leogg> DrDub, yes, absolutely
17:22:46 <n0rman> DrDub: it's only 20 meters, and yes
17:22:49 * rmayorga remember dc11
17:22:54 <DrDub> ah, OK
17:23:01 <rmayorga> (but shuttles from airport-venue)
17:23:03 <gwolf> roirobo: please explain a bit more re: the restrooms
17:23:17 <n0rman> DrDub: we are planning to get a bus for handicaped people during DebConf
17:23:31 <roirobo> there are two restrooms near the restaurant at the hotel...
17:23:42 <roirobo> even the door is ok (85cm)
17:23:55 <roirobo> it's very small in general.
17:23:57 <gwolf> oh, sorry, looking at the report in the wiki now, you detailed it
17:24:08 <gwolf> is it very far from there to more friendly restrooms?
17:24:34 <roirobo> DrDub but the distance between the hotel and the convention center is about 30 mts.
17:24:41 <leogg> again, the restaurant restrooms are not a big problem as we won't use them (we'll have lunch at the venue)
17:24:48 <DrDub> roirobo: Oh, I see. I see.
17:24:55 <roirobo> leogg for the breakfast, I say.
17:25:12 <leogg> roirobo, right
17:25:15 <roirobo> gwolf there are the restrooms at the venue...
17:25:17 <moray> not being able to use the nearest toilet during breakfast wouldn't be disastrous, though
17:25:26 <roirobo> moray, right
17:25:27 <moray> the road sounds more serious
17:25:30 <leogg> yes, I agree
17:25:51 <gwolf> right
17:25:58 <leogg> roirobo, do you have some photos on the road?
17:26:10 <leogg> aprox. inclination?
17:26:35 <roirobo> the restrooms is not a big problem, really. We can use other restrooms and when you go to wash your teeth you can use the bathroom in your room
17:26:44 <roirobo> leogg not with me.
17:27:02 <leogg> the shuttle is an option, but for only 20 meters it's almost ridiculous
17:27:05 <moray> in the road, the problem is that it's steep, or that there are kerbs without ramps?
17:27:21 <leogg> moray, it's steep
17:27:39 <leogg> there are ramps all the way down to the venue
17:27:43 <n0rman> moray: http://imgll.trivago.com/partnerimages/48/22/48227937_l.jpeg
17:28:03 <moray> that doesn't look particularly steep compared to many (shorter, of course) wheelchair ramps
17:28:15 <leogg> roirobo, but I think there's another exit through the casino at the hotel, you should check that
17:28:18 <moray> would be hard for someone in a manual chair without help though, surely
17:28:39 <n0rman> moray: yes, without help is lind of impossible
17:29:05 <leogg> yep, with a manual wheelchair it's difficult
17:29:32 <DrDub> instead of shuttle having people helping with that from the hotel...? :-/
17:29:47 <n0rman> DrDub: yes, it's possible
17:30:04 <moray> well, we don't need to solve the issue now, we just shouldn't forget it or ignore it
17:30:07 <leogg> DrDub, we'll have people from the local team helping as well, if it's needed
17:30:14 <moray> any other local team issues to raise?
17:30:19 <gwolf> Yes, accessibility issues are important to get right for the least help to be needed - but I doubt we can do much to counter the terrain
17:30:19 <leogg> yes
17:30:25 <roirobo> DrDub Is better to find a person who helps in that issue
17:30:27 <moray> has any sponsorship work started yet?
17:30:28 <roirobo> that a shuttle.
17:30:54 <moray> I know that's not just local team, but the local team realised they would need to push sponsorship due to the costs...
17:30:59 <gwolf> we usually move in groups, and there will always be somebody willing to help. And in the worst case, a hotel employee will surely help somebody with motion disabilities
17:31:14 <leogg> n0rman, re sponsorship
17:31:15 <n0rman> moray: yes, but we need that someone else from -team or -sponsorship-team approve the sponsorshipbrochure so we can send the document
17:31:28 <gwolf> I also think that hiring and having a shuttle there for a 30m ride is a bit too much - but we should check witht he probable users on their opinion
17:31:39 <n0rman> moray: we made contacts with Telefonica centroamerica and Claro Nicaragua
17:31:44 <DrDub> I went through it once, I can give a second pass and be done.
17:32:10 <n0rman> also a company in Guatemala
17:32:21 <DrDub> We were discussing with n0rman about highlighting a potential added benefit for Gold and Platinum (backdrop logo) which will more or less nail down the benefits.
17:33:23 <moray> what's "backdrop" here -- the same as the stage "banners", or different?
17:33:36 <DrDub> moray: wallpaper behind the speakers
17:33:57 <DrDub> so it shows on photos / videos
17:34:03 <moray> DrDub: normally that's either the "banners" or the screen that's being projected on
17:34:31 <moray> the stage "banners" sound like what you mean already, unless you want to aim the projector at this "backdrop"
17:34:41 <DrDub> well, depending on the venue, if there's no wall in any direction (that'd be odd), we can have them as podium banner
17:35:07 <DrDub> moray: where's the stage banner? I thought that's at the top of the projection screen
17:35:27 <aigarius> moray, I think DrDub means what is behind speaker as he speaks, typically it is like a white wallpaper with many copies of the same small logos
17:35:54 <DrDub> yup
17:35:55 <moray> aigarius: right, but that's normal for press conference type events ... without a big projection screen
17:36:17 <moray> if we were building an actual set it would still work (screen inset into it), but that sounds high-budget
17:36:35 <aigarius> this would only be seen when the camera is switched to the speaker
17:36:51 <DrDub> well, there's the projection screen, then the rest of the wall
17:36:55 <n0rman> http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf12/SponsorPack
17:36:59 <DrDub> this is for the rest of the wall
17:37:10 <moray> DrDub: wall-size printing is going to cost a lot
17:37:24 <leogg> aigarius, some speakers usually moves around quite a bit, so I don't now if it will work
17:37:25 <DrDub> so it'll be shown on photos taken of the speaker not including the projection screen
17:37:35 <moray> so you should find an actual cost before you go promising it
17:37:36 <DrDub> moray: it can be just regular paper
17:37:49 <moray> DrDub: the material isn't really the issue, the size is
17:37:54 <DrDub> moray: makes sense, let me discuss this with n0rman afterward
17:38:21 <n0rman> uhmm, yes, the size is the problem :S
17:38:23 <aigarius> yes, a price quote for such custom wallpaper would be wise. It is not quite wall size printing as you can just print a roll
17:38:33 <DrDub> aigarius: exactly
17:38:58 <DrDub> but yes, we expect +10k from this sponsorship, so if the wallpaper costs us around $200 it'll be worth it.
17:39:00 <aigarius> the pattern is repeating so you paste it together when putting it on the wall
17:39:05 <n0rman> but ok, we have the levels in the wiki, what do you think about it? are ok?
17:39:06 <DrDub> (and it should be much less than that)
17:39:28 <DrDub> I'll also ask for local prices here in Montreal for a second opinion. That can be transported to the conference.
17:39:40 <moray> DrDub: I'd be surprised if it costs that little, a regular banner can be hundreds, and the printing price is typically by length
17:39:44 <aigarius> DrDub don't forget to take in account the time and glue for putting it on - could take a while
17:40:01 <moray> aigarius: and you can't just go pasting wallpaper up in a hotel conference room :)
17:40:12 <gwolf> (brb)
17:40:17 <n0rman> uhmm, i think we can't paste it on the wall
17:40:30 <moray> anyway, we're kind of getting sidetracked from bigger issues (partly my fault)
17:40:34 <DrDub> moray: not paste it, just pin it there.
17:40:55 <moray> DrDub: let's discuss this after the meeting
17:41:01 <aigarius> well, we can action the finding of price and move on
17:41:18 <DrDub> yes
17:41:46 <moray> #action DrDub to look at prices for printing stage backdrops with sponsor logos from top categories
17:41:54 <DrDub> OK, so now for http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf12/SponsorPack
17:42:34 <n0rman> so, can we work with those levels?
17:42:52 <DrDub> what were the thresholds for DC11?
17:43:10 <DrDub> also, what is the current status of the budget?
17:43:19 <aroundthfur> DrDub, http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf11/Sponsors
17:44:35 <leogg> DrDub, we have a draft, but we need to update it with real costs
17:45:16 <moray> yes -- DebConf is already not so far away now...
17:45:17 <leogg> DrDub, we'll know more next week or so when we meet the hotel/venue staff again and negotiate new prices
17:45:21 <aroundthfur> can i interrupt a bit and ask if the final report for dc11 has everything that it needs to be done?
17:45:26 <aroundthfur> and if can help somehow
17:45:28 <moray> aroundthfur: that's the next topic
17:45:30 <aroundthfur> i need to leave in 5 minutes
17:45:33 <DrDub> OK, we're increasing things for 20%
17:45:34 <aroundthfur> moray, i know
17:45:46 <aroundthfur> but i g2g in 5 min :/
17:45:47 <gwolf> leogg: the phrase "for DebConf12 we expect around 400 attendees, which requires an according budget"... Do we have basis to expect that many people?
17:46:11 <gwolf> It can invite sponsors, but it can also scare them (as we'd need a sh!tload of money)
17:46:25 <leogg> gwolf, we expect a lot of people from the area
17:46:25 <moray> n0rman: can you take these questions to the list?  and prod past sponsors people if you need clarification
17:46:41 <aigarius> leogg, by experience it will be only up to date with real costs by the middle of 2013, so release early and often is still best
17:46:42 <DrDub> our sponsors are recurring, increasing prices like this is not that good. Can we scale down to at most 10% from DC11?
17:46:45 <moray> we're going to run out of time soon, and more people than just aroundthfur will need to go
17:46:45 <gwolf> leogg: a lot, yes. But, 100? 150?
17:46:54 <gwolf> leogg: we usualy have a lot of people from _any_ area :)
17:46:57 <leogg> gwolf, for mini-debconf there were almost 100 people, so we expect at least a similar number for dc12
17:47:16 <moray> #action leogg to give more information on budget to the list
17:47:20 <DrDub> moray: I'm done here.
17:47:20 <leogg> aigarius, we will :)
17:47:29 <gwolf> aroundthfur: how many ┬▒locals were there for DC11, do you remember? (just for comparison sake)
17:47:43 <gwolf> (i.e. less than two country-borders away)
17:47:55 <moray> #topic gwolf to discuss projected numbers on the list
17:47:57 <moray> oops
17:48:01 <moray> #action gwolf to discuss projected numbers on the list
17:48:02 <aroundthfur> gwolf, around 100
17:48:02 <moray> :p
17:48:07 <moray> #topic DebConf11 Final Report final(?) status
17:48:11 <aroundthfur> but i can give you a more precise number later
17:48:15 <moray> aroundthfur: no, it's not ready
17:48:15 * gwolf feels flattered for being a discussed topic
17:48:32 <leogg> gwolf, we did an estimate with xamanu... let me check that with him
17:48:33 <moray> aroundthfur: and any help getting the report ready would be appreciated
17:48:34 <aroundthfur> moray, i apologize i kind of "left" here
17:48:43 <aroundthfur> my life had priorities :/
17:48:50 <aroundthfur> i will be more active from now on
17:48:53 <moray> aroundthfur: it's *supposed* to be a DebConf12 local team job, but nattie has been trying to push it
17:48:58 <moray> but she seems to have got stuck
17:49:19 <aroundthfur> yes i know she is doing this job
17:49:23 <moray> there are parts where it really needs local team knowledge to fill it out
17:49:24 <aroundthfur> but she is not online now
17:49:36 <moray> but, the important thing now would be to get *something* out
17:49:43 <aroundthfur> moray, i know but i think nattie received everything in the last couple of days
17:49:47 <moray> even if there will be a second edition with extra info
17:50:07 <aroundthfur> ok, so should i make a draft of the final report?
17:50:18 <aroundthfur> and put it somewhere so we can go from there?
17:50:28 <moray> someone was meant to be doing layout -- I forget who
17:50:32 <aroundthfur> i know the final report will be VERY useful for the dc12
17:50:37 <gwolf> aroundthfur: yesterday she still had a large number of missing pieces
17:50:48 <moray> aroundthfur: and some past sponsors demand it before agreeing again, normally
17:50:50 <aroundthfur> gwolf, hmm, i will talk to her later about it then
17:50:52 <gwolf> and yes, the report is _needed_
17:51:16 <n0rman> xamanu: are you there?
17:51:25 <aroundthfur> gwolf, yup
17:51:39 <aroundthfur> ok so, i will talk to nattie and try to finish it asap
17:52:12 <moray> aroundthfur: right.  a few months ago we were already saying "let's get something *this* weekend"...
17:52:23 <aroundthfur> i need to leave now, but i will check the log later
17:52:38 <aroundthfur> moray, i know, i feel responsible for it not being done yet
17:53:24 <moray> maybe next time we can try some "you get/give one beer for each day it's early/late" game for the report :)
17:53:39 <aroundthfur> moray, i like the idea :)
17:53:51 <moray> we should certainly re-try the idea of writing as much as possible during DebConf
17:54:05 <aroundthfur> ok, i really need to leave, i'll check the backlog later and report as soon as i have something done
17:54:14 <aroundthfur> bye!
17:54:17 <moray> bye
17:54:41 <gwolf> o/
17:54:48 <moray> ok -- any great insights on the report, or we all just hang our heads in shame a moment then move on for now?
17:55:23 <leogg> let's move on
17:55:25 <moray> #topic AOB/next meeting
17:55:46 <moray> (we covered the report topic under the local team heading, as much as we usefully can in a meeting)
17:55:53 <moray> s/report/brochure/
17:56:08 <moray> anything else to raise?
17:56:32 <moray> and when is a meeting next useful?
17:56:43 <leogg> january 27? three weeks from now?
17:56:53 <moray> (we need to get on and do a lot very soon, but having more global-team meetings won't necessarily help)
17:57:10 <gwolf> I'd suggest four weeks
17:57:23 <gwolf> (remember that in ~2 weeks a DC13 meeting will also happen)
17:57:41 <leogg> february 3rd?
17:57:46 <moray> we don't seem to have settled on a permanent timeslot yet, so perhaps we need another poll
17:57:48 <xamanu> now I'm here. sorry
17:58:20 <moray> unless people think that this current slot will continue working well (unsure, as I fear Europeans may escape before it to go out on Friday evening)
17:58:33 <gwolf> moray: rather, does somebody oppose keeping this slot?
17:58:41 <gwolf> it's very convenient for me at least
17:58:47 <moray> gwolf: some who oppose probably aren't listening just now!
17:58:49 <n0rman> for me is ok
17:58:54 <leogg> it's great for me
17:59:01 <gwolf> moray: you got a point. But they ought to be silenced, though ;-)
17:59:09 <leogg> :)
18:01:37 <moray> #info next meeting in four weeks, same timeslot, unless there's pressure to move
18:01:43 <moray> done?
18:01:58 <DrDub> yup
18:02:04 <leogg> yep
18:02:07 <gwolf> yap
18:02:10 <moray> #endmeeting