18:08:03 <gwolf> #startmeeting
18:08:03 <MeetBot> Meeting started Wed Feb  8 18:08:03 2012 UTC.  The chair is gwolf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:08:03 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:08:18 <gwolf> #pingall
18:08:22 <gwolf> or how was it?
18:08:33 <h01ger> MeetBot, pingall meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeting
18:08:33 <MeetBot> meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeting
18:08:33 <MeetBot> aliceinwire alucardn3 amaya AndrewLee azeem_ bdale bgupta blarson bubulle Caroll cate christoph Clint cpt_nemo dam darst dkg edrz faw FBI fcestrada fil franklin Ganneff gregoa gwolf h01ger jeremyb jimbodoors JuN1x Kaare karora leogg lucas luciano madduck marga
18:08:33 <MeetBot> maxy MeetBot moray msantana n0rman nattie nomada nomadium OdyX paravoid paulproteus Rhonda rmayorga schultmc schultmc_ sgran simonft Sledge suihkulokki taffit tiago tiago_ Tincho tokkee Tolimar vorlon xamanu zumbi
18:08:33 <MeetBot> meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeting
18:08:37 <gwolf> #topic  DebConf13 bids status
18:08:42 <gwolf> h01ger: thx :)
18:08:59 <gwolf> Ok, I'll start talking about this one... And then we'll see if there is anything worth commenting on
18:09:01 * karora wakes up.
18:09:02 * h01ger relocates, sorry, but here i only have outgoing ip due to maintainance, but no dns anymore and this kinda sux
18:09:13 <h01ger> (that obviously started 9min ago...)
18:09:16 <h01ger> cu soon
18:09:38 <gwolf> We had the first part of the DC13 meeting... Was it two weeks ago? One week ago?
18:09:49 <gwolf> well, the date is not so relevant
18:10:17 <gwolf> so, we got two bid runners for the final part of it: Riga (Latvia) and LeCamp (Switzerland)
18:10:39 <gwolf> Both proposals are good and strong... I won't go into too many details here
18:11:16 <gwolf> there are logs available :) But we agreed to formally form the DebConf committee that will assist in choosing which one is the winner
18:11:49 <gwolf> And hold a decision making meeting, which was recently announced by moray, and will be held between next Wednesday and the following Tuesday.
18:12:41 <gwolf> The functions for this committee are formally... well, helping reach a consensus between the bidding teams, and -failing a simple consensus- voting on he proposals
18:14:06 <gwolf> #info The DebConf committee is formed of the DebConf chairs (moray, h01ger and myself), plus karora, ana, Caroll, bdale, bubulle, ultrotter and marga
18:14:19 <gwolf> And... basically that's what there is.
18:14:22 <gwolf> Any questions?
18:14:36 <gwolf> comments?
18:14:41 <gwolf> anybody awake? :)
18:14:52 <Caroll> I'm awake :)
18:14:52 <moray> (I'm awake, kind of)
18:15:01 <luciano> me too :)
18:15:02 <leogg> :)
18:15:11 <gwolf> ok... so I think we can go to the next item on the list
18:15:25 <gwolf> #topic  Update from DebConf12 local team
18:15:31 <gwolf> guys, your stage
18:15:37 <gwolf> i'll #info / #action if needed
18:15:50 * karora awake, even :-)
18:15:56 <leogg> ok
18:16:29 <leogg> so... we're considering a new venue for debconf12
18:16:36 <leogg> Hotel Ticomo
18:16:40 <leogg> http://lists.debconf.org/lurker/message/20120208.061902.6b3b8e14.en.html
18:17:01 <leogg> there are some advantages, such as we're all going to be on a same place and it's probably going to be cheaper than the actual proposed venue
18:17:06 <gwolf> #info New venue being considered for DebConf12: Hotel Ticomo
18:17:12 <gwolf> #link http://lists.debconf.org/lurker/message/20120208.061902.6b3b8e14.en.html
18:17:25 <leogg> the biggest difficulties are that the venue is located far away from the centre of the city, the place is not accessible; it's located on a hill and has a lot of steps and obstacles
18:17:54 <gwolf> leogg: roughly, what does "cheaper" mean in numbers?
18:17:55 <leogg> I don't know if you have any questions right now? I'm answering gwolf questions on the list
18:18:14 <xamanu> on the bottom of the message from the link above you can find the website, a link to photos and a map
18:18:25 <leogg> gwolf, let me copy+paste :)
18:18:38 <leogg> The rooms are going to be at least 50-75% cheaper than Crowne Plaza (and about same cost as El Conquistador and triple rooms at Teodolinda). Around ~$20 per person/day.
18:18:43 <leogg> The conference rooms costs from $450 to $1000 (each, per day) at Crowne Plaza. At Ticomo the most expensive conference room costs $250 per day.
18:19:00 <gwolf> food?
18:19:23 <leogg> gwolf, the food is expensive... but we're trying to get a new quotation
18:19:28 <gwolf> #info Lodging and work spaces are in general over 50% cheaper than in the Crowne Plaza
18:19:30 <leogg> right now it's around $15
18:19:34 <moray> All I had seen the last few days looked much more realistic than the Crowne Plaza.
18:19:39 <xamanu> gwolf: food depends on what we want to spend. If we want a international menu with all good things it would probably the biggest expense
18:19:47 <moray> I'm a bit worried by the comments I saw today about accessibility.
18:19:47 <gwolf> So we're talking about a combined US$35 per person per day
18:19:53 <gwolf> or is 15 per meal?
18:19:59 <gwolf> moray: right
18:20:00 <leogg> gwolf, per meal
18:20:07 <xamanu> $30 per day
18:20:08 <moray> Non-accessible is not an option, so it's not enough to say "it might not be done"
18:20:10 <gwolf> ok
18:20:25 <moray> You'd need to be ready to *make sure* it's done, including turning up with cement mixers yourselves :)
18:20:32 <xamanu> moray: it is not accessible at the moment. the owner promised us to build the conditions
18:20:35 <karora> So does having the Ticomo option make Crowne Plaza softer on their price?
18:20:36 <leogg> gwolf, total cost is around $50 per person/day with food and accomodation
18:20:40 <moray> xamanu: yes.
18:20:41 <gwolf> leogg: In your mail you mention they are willing to do the conditions... How realistic does it sound?
18:20:49 <n0rman> yes, we are waiting a new quotation for food from dthe hotel, they told us to send it today
18:20:57 <xamanu> this would mean to work together with them, so it is going to happen (really) and it is based on the needs we have
18:21:04 <moray> Is there a photo of the "most difficult" part to the main talk room, mentioned on the list?
18:21:14 <leogg> gwolf, I'm the pessimist here... :) so, I have my doubts
18:21:31 <gwolf> to be honest, even without the price item, the Ticomo looks like a better option to me... BUT the accessibility has to be worked out. And not with a contract that might not be accomplished by July.
18:21:36 <n0rman> gwolf:  for me, it sounds realistic, shel told us that there were a meeting from UN and they have to make it accesible to some areas because there were a persona in wheelchair in that meeting
18:21:45 <xamanu> moray: yes, https://gallery.debconf.org/v/dc12bids/managua/ticomohotel/IMG_1249.JPG.html
18:21:55 <leogg> n0rman, but it was some minor ramps
18:22:02 <n0rman> leogg: but they did it
18:22:25 <leogg> n0rman, the last one to the main room needs to be HUGE
18:22:29 <gwolf> #info Ticomo has accessibility issues, but they are interested in doing the works to get it solved in time for DebConf (although it's still just a promise)
18:22:39 <n0rman> that's why I'm optimist thinking that they can do it again
18:22:40 <xamanu> i think it is realistic. but it would mean that we have dedicated persons to help them and to make sure that things are happening
18:22:42 <leogg> n0rman, and there are a lot of other details too
18:22:51 <gwolf> n0rman: so it'd be with temporal (i.e. wooden) ramps?
18:23:01 <moray> gwolf: My worry on the other side is that getting enough money for CP may *not* be possible.
18:23:08 <n0rman> gwolf: no, it was not temporal, they build it
18:23:08 <leogg> gwolf, no... it has to be permanent (cement)
18:23:13 <gwolf> xamanu: we precisely want people to be able to move without somebody there to help them
18:23:17 <gwolf> leogg: right.
18:23:29 <gwolf> moray: completely with you on this... The CP is just too expensive
18:23:37 <gwolf> ...And it sorta-breaks the DebConfy way ;-)
18:23:40 <moray> xamanu: for the part in that photo, I'd guess some "go round a long way" path might be better than a direct ramp
18:23:56 <moray> xamanu: though obviously I can't see the layout
18:24:11 <xamanu> gwolf: dedicated persons to help them... with "them" i meant the administration of the hotel to build the stuff
18:24:13 <gwolf> And guys, make sure they also think about the visually impaired
18:24:14 <h01ger> re
18:24:25 <xamanu> moray: yes, of course
18:24:31 <gwolf> xamanu: ah, ok, not somebody waiting for our disabled person to push them around
18:24:39 <xamanu> gwolf: no
18:24:54 <gwolf> ok... Well, I think this point could be carried on forever :)
18:24:58 <leogg> visually impared is going to be a challenge too, the place is full of stairs
18:25:04 <xamanu> gwolf: but for blind people we have to look for a solution. since the area is pretty big. we have to be creative...
18:25:17 <gwolf> but I know you understand the issue... and will trust you to work on it, right?
18:25:39 <gwolf> Besides accessibility, any other problems here? Have you talked with Internet providers?
18:25:57 <xamanu> no, we have a meeting this afternoon
18:26:00 <moray> I guess you'd need to have accessibility and internet "ready by June", for example, so that there's time for panic action at the end.
18:26:07 <gwolf> Also, some people like staying in a better category place than the rest of us. Is there an option for them?
18:26:10 <xamanu> not with the providers directly but with the Nicaraguan Internet Association
18:26:18 <xamanu> gwolf: no
18:26:24 <leogg> gwolf, not near
18:26:32 <moray> On the hotel itself, I didn't quite understand the comments on room numbers etc.
18:26:33 <gwolf> #info This afternoon localteam meets with the Nicaraguan Internet Association to check connectivity for Ticomo
18:26:36 <xamanu> this would mean at least 20min taxi ride
18:26:59 <gwolf> #info More "classy" accomodation not available nearby (≥20min taxi ride)
18:27:10 <moray> They seemed to assume we fill the capacity of the hotel, but what if we only have 200 people, say -- can we have a nicer room use, without increasing the costs?
18:27:11 <gwolf> What about rooms for couples?
18:27:15 * h01ger catched up on backlog
18:27:23 <gwolf> h01ger: welcome to the present
18:27:28 <xamanu> gwolf: no, all rooms would be packed like in a youth hostel
18:27:52 <leogg> moray, the only difference between rooms are the number of beds
18:27:56 <gwolf> Ok. I still find it quite acceptable, given our conditions
18:27:58 <moray> xamanu: even if we have fewer people?
18:28:02 <leogg> there are no 'nicer' rooms
18:28:07 <gwolf> Can we get floor plans?
18:28:10 <xamanu> moray: there are 53 rooms....
18:28:33 <h01ger> how many people are supposed to be in a room there?
18:28:36 <h01ger> 4? 10?
18:28:40 <xamanu> or little houses, i should have said
18:28:44 <leogg> gwolf, I don't know if they have floor plans
18:28:45 <xamanu> 5-8
18:29:05 <n0rman> xamanu: remember that it's more like cabins and not rooms
18:29:06 <gwolf> leogg: but you said there are rooms for between 3 and 8 people. Can we offer couples to put the cost for the third person and offer them a three-person room? (Not that's needed, but it's a nice extra. But we can do without it)
18:29:13 <h01ger> +15 USD / person?
18:29:21 <xamanu> on the map (http://i.imgur.com/azf9l.jpg) you can see all the blue boxes are the little houses
18:29:24 <moray> xamanu: but if we have 200 people (e.g.), would we need to pack the rooms to capacity, or can we spread out more fo the same prices?
18:29:36 <gwolf> #link Ticomo map: http://www.animales-en-extincion.info/el_perezoso
18:29:56 <gwolf> #info accomodation is more like cabins, with a youth hostel-like arrangement (5-8 people per cabin)
18:30:09 <leogg> gwolf, there are no rooms for couples... right now most of the rooms have three beds, but we'll probably need to fit two or more extra bed in there
18:30:20 * h01ger thinks 15 USD per person is ok for 5 persons per room but less ok with 8
18:30:21 <xamanu> moray: we would have to negotiate that. for now they are charging us based on the number of persons
18:30:33 <moray> h01ger: right
18:30:49 <xamanu> prices per night differ if they sleep on the mattress, a bed and with or without air condition
18:30:52 <moray> I'm not so worried for couples, but if we have to pack everyone 8 (or equivalent) to a room, ...
18:30:57 <gwolf> Also, you mentioned shared bathrooms - Shared between the cabins, or between the 8 occupants of a single cabin?
18:31:20 <n0rman> gwolf: in the sam cabin
18:31:24 <gwolf> xamanu: I do think everybody will REALLY want air conditioning, even if we have to buy some units
18:31:25 <xamanu> 2 cabins have a shared bathroom. all the others have a separate one
18:31:30 <leogg> gwolf, some are shared between cabins
18:31:31 <gregoa> gwolf: the animales-en-extincion link looks like a mis-paste
18:31:36 <gwolf> jajajaja
18:31:38 <gwolf> gregoa: thanks!
18:31:44 <h01ger> hihi
18:31:45 <n0rman> gwolf: but there are like 10 cabins with 2 rooms and the bathroom is inside of one room :S
18:31:55 <gwolf> #info Correction to the link wrongly pasted
18:32:05 <gwolf> #link Ticomo map http://i.imgur.com/azf9l.jpg
18:32:15 <gregoa> mejor :)
18:32:18 <moray> n0rman: when you say "bathroom in the room", is there still a door between the bathroom and room?
18:32:18 <gwolf> Anyway... Details follow on the list
18:32:20 <gwolf> gregoa: thanks
18:32:25 <leogg> those 10 cabins are a problem, the bathroom is literally insdide one of the rooms
18:32:29 <gregoa> gwolf: de nada
18:32:44 <moray> leogg: I'm still not sure exactly what you mean
18:32:50 <n0rman> moray: no, you have to enter the another room in order to go to the bathroom
18:32:50 <leogg> moray, yes... but you have to wake up your room mate if you want to use the bathroom
18:33:07 <moray> leogg: right, yes
18:33:09 <gwolf> people, should we move to the next topic and leave the Ticomo details for the list... preferable aided with photos :)
18:33:13 <n0rman> moray: there are 10 cabins with two rooms each, and the bathroom for the cabin is inside one of those rooms
18:33:21 <moray> Yes, we can't make a decision without knowing about the internet etc.
18:33:28 <gwolf> #topic Sponsorship levels for DebConf12
18:33:38 <gwolf> who holds this topic?
18:33:42 <leogg> right
18:33:43 <n0rman> We was checking sponsorship levels from previous DebConf, and we agree that sponsorship levels for DC11 http://debconf11.debconf.org/sponsorship.xhtml and just change EUR to USD.
18:34:16 <n0rman> It's really neccesary to have this finished so we can start to contact possible sponsors.
18:34:26 <moray> Contacting them is pretty urgent.
18:34:27 <n0rman> I wrote sponsorship team and waiting for a response
18:34:27 * h01ger had no time to look into this again
18:34:47 <leogg> we're really worried about sponsorship
18:34:47 <gwolf> n0rman: I think it's sensible... Specially if we want local companies to sponsor
18:34:51 <moray> When you say "change EUR to USD", you mean just keep the numbers, i.e. lower the amounts?#
18:35:01 <gwolf> maybe leaving the upper brackets closer to their current levels
18:35:04 <n0rman> moray: keep the same number as DC11
18:35:24 <gwolf> i.e. I don't expect a Nicaraguan platinum sponsorship - we can leave it closer to its DC11 monetary level
18:35:27 * h01ger reads http://debconf11.debconf.org/sponsorship.xhtml  with s/EUR/USD/ in mind
18:35:31 <n0rman> leogg: xamanu and I are ok if we use the same
18:35:48 <moray> did you speak to some people who worked on sponsorship for dc11/dc10?
18:35:49 <gwolf> But steel/bronze, it makes sense just copying the numbers over
18:35:52 <n0rman> as DC11, we think that is ok
18:36:10 <moray> I didn't, but those people will be able to confirm if the levels make sense
18:36:13 <n0rman> moray: as I told you, I wrote the sponsorship team and waiting for a response
18:36:22 <moray> n0rman: I think you need to contact the people individually
18:36:49 <n0rman> uhmm
18:36:50 <h01ger> there is not much incentive to buy gold
18:36:56 <h01ger> (looking from a sponsors pov)
18:37:02 <gwolf> h01ger: maybe we have too many levels?
18:37:03 <h01ger> except being gold
18:37:31 <h01ger> gwolf, hmmm. git
18:37:36 <h01ger> gwolf, hmmm. good question
18:37:40 <h01ger> (git is the answer!)
18:37:51 <n0rman> h01ger: having a banner behind talk podiums. I think it's cool, your logo it will be on all the videos and not only in the video
18:38:00 <gwolf> I'd go for something like steel US$1000, bronze US$2000, silver US$5000, gold US$15000, platinum US$30000 or something like it?
18:38:04 <h01ger> n0rman, is that worth 5000 USD?
18:38:18 <h01ger> you get the logo on all the videos for silver already
18:38:30 <h01ger> 5000 _extra_, mind you
18:38:38 <moray> h01ger: perhaps the "bigger logo for more money" part should be emphasised more in the text
18:38:46 <gwolf> (oh, that'd make it much less interesting... Well, we'd have to adjust, but you get my idea)
18:38:47 * h01ger nods
18:38:48 <moray> (though not giving precise pixel counts)
18:38:51 <n0rman> h01ger: yes, but ir will be for more minutes in the video
18:39:04 <h01ger> n0rman, so what. really.
18:39:21 <h01ger> thats hardly something worth 5000usd _extra_
18:39:31 <h01ger> companies need to invest wisely
18:39:48 <xamanu> I agree with all suggestions here. And the proposed sponsorship levels from gwolf make sense to me now.
18:39:49 <h01ger> and 5000 more for maybe be sometimes more on the video, doesnt cut it
18:39:51 <moray> h01ger: well, I think the companies are mostly "sponsoring DebConf" rather than worrying about the precise benefits
18:40:08 <moray> h01ger: though I agree, in principle it might make sense to have fewer levels and clearer differences
18:40:14 <h01ger> moray, i have talked with sponsors about it and they *do care* about what they get back.
18:40:20 <moray> h01ger: but then you need to be more intelligent about setting the levels
18:40:20 <gwolf> xamanu: only that the jump from silver at 5000 to gold at 15000 would be baically stupid :-(
18:40:31 <moray> h01ger: which you may be able to do from experience, I can't
18:40:33 <n0rman> gold and platinum could be with logo in a special or exclusive position, respectively
18:40:34 <h01ger> at least when giving more. for <2000 USD its probably right that they dont care that much
18:40:56 <h01ger> hah
18:40:59 <h01ger> idea:
18:41:11 <gwolf> h01ger: for a Nicaraguan company, 2000USD can beserious money
18:41:14 <h01ger> make gold 10000 and add the extra benefit: will be mentioned in all press releases
18:41:34 <h01ger> (though then we cannot mention the silver ones anymore. hmm .(
18:41:54 <h01ger> gwolf, i think our levels are fine on the low end
18:42:06 <gwolf> h01ger: we can, but we'd have to emphasize the gold+platinum ones
18:42:11 <gwolf> It's a nice idea, I think
18:42:40 <n0rman> the current levels are http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf12/SponsorPack
18:42:49 <gwolf> #info Discussing the sponsorship levels, an idea is to keep the lower brackets at the same numbers than DC11 but in USD instead of EUR, and adjusting the upper ones
18:43:13 <h01ger> #idea maybe add benefit "emphasize gold sponsors in PR material"
18:43:20 <h01ger> this idea needs more cooking
18:43:34 <gwolf> Ok... so lets all cook it, and move on? :)
18:43:37 <moray> you can also put fewer levels in the sponsor pack
18:43:42 <leogg> I agree on adjusting the upper ones, but I'm not ahppy on posponing this much more
18:43:46 <moray> but have more benefits held back to offer when negotiating
18:43:48 <leogg> can we set a deadline?
18:43:55 <gwolf> leogg: we need to do this FAST, right
18:43:59 <gwolf> we are way too close already
18:44:10 <moray> will we do this on the list, or another special meeting?
18:44:13 <leogg> gwolf, yes, please! we're really worried
18:44:15 <moray> (which would have to be soon)
18:44:25 <n0rman> leogg: I will prefer if we can define this now
18:44:26 <leogg> moray, I prefer the list
18:44:34 <xamanu> I prefer now
18:44:37 <gwolf> moray: I think non-meeting time in the channel, backing it on the list, would be good
18:44:52 <n0rman> Can't it be done now?
18:44:52 <gwolf> but we can set a deadline to... A week from now, latest?
18:45:00 <h01ger> we can finalize now, but if it sux, we'll need to redo anyway
18:45:15 <leogg> I'm fine with giving it seven more days
18:45:16 <gwolf> I think we should work a bit more i.e. on the silver-gold differentiation
18:45:24 <n0rman> h01ger: or we can do something that doesn't suck :)
18:45:26 <h01ger> n0rman, can you ping me on saturday/sunday about these levels please? though 7 more days is also fine with me
18:45:27 <gwolf> checking the reality of the numbers
18:45:39 <moray> h01ger: 'this weekend' would seem a good deadline to me
18:45:40 <karora> When I've done sponsorship in the past I've allowed for some negotiation room in the top level.
18:45:47 <n0rman> h01ger: ok I will, some one else we can ping the weekend?
18:46:15 <gwolf> #info We set a deadline for having the numbers and privileges set for this weekend (i.e. maximum period for final prices to be published on Monday)
18:46:32 <h01ger> karora, sure
18:46:34 <leogg> nice! :)
18:46:42 <gwolf> #info We *need* to discuss it on the channel / on the list, probably during the weekend.
18:46:51 <gwolf> oki...
18:46:53 <n0rman> another thing on the sponsorship
18:47:10 <gwolf> n0rman: please?
18:47:23 <n0rman> Also we want to discuss how to manage funds here. It would be very dfficult if we transfer the money to SPI and then to Nicaragua again, and we will pay a lot in tansfers tax. We can contact a NGO so they can manage funds but probably they will charge us 5-10% for this.
18:48:00 <h01ger> ouch
18:48:01 * gwolf is called away - I'll be back in ≤5min, sorry!
18:48:09 <h01ger> n0rman, so whats your suggestion?
18:48:15 <n0rman> A better to solution is to make some agreement with ISIC (which I'm the owner) to open an account ISIC/Debconf. In this case, DebConf has not to pay any charge and people in charge of accounting will have full access via Internet to check balance when they need it.
18:48:26 <h01ger> whats isic?
18:48:31 <n0rman> h01ger: an IT academy
18:48:41 <h01ger> what kind of legal status?
18:48:50 <h01ger> url?
18:48:57 <n0rman> h01ger: ? is legal, is an IT academy working since 1991 in Managua
18:49:07 <n0rman> h01ger: http://www.isi.edu.ni
18:49:11 <h01ger> thanks
18:49:26 <n0rman> h01ger: it's the old site, the new one is http://www.isic.edu.ni but it's not finished yet
18:50:04 <n0rman> and with ISIC we can open a bank account like ISIC/DebConf and give full acces via Internet to people in charge of accounting
18:50:10 <gwolf> back
18:50:11 <n0rman> so they can check when they need it
18:50:22 <h01ger> n0rman, but legally who owns it? just you?
18:50:24 <n0rman> it would be an account used only for DebConf
18:50:29 <h01ger> or is it an association or ?
18:51:05 * gwolf has been to ISIC
18:51:07 <n0rman> h01ger: is and association with two brothers and I'm the legal representantive
18:51:38 <gwolf> I'd say... Well, when we had DC6 we had set up a formal relationship with AMESOL, which in the end didn't work due to legal details
18:51:55 <n0rman> so I think it would be the better option
18:51:58 <gwolf> and all the money we handled here was basically to my and Gaby's personal accounts
18:51:58 <moray> n0rman: I think he's asking whether it's non-profit or the local equivalent, or a regular company
18:52:12 <moray> gwolf: right.  and Debian probably would be less happy with that now than then
18:52:24 <n0rman> moray: is an IT academy, so it's non-profit, is a regular company
18:52:24 <xamanu> moray: it is a "regular" company
18:52:31 * h01ger nods gwolf + moray
18:52:34 <gwolf> n0rman: Just please be sure of what that'd mean for ISIC's finances - i.e. tax reports and similar
18:52:45 <h01ger> moray, though we still can make contracts... so
18:52:48 <moray> this proposal sounds sensible to me, I hope "Debian" would agree, as long as we use an agreement like we had with DIVA
18:52:48 <gwolf> moray: of course. And we are not talking on it being to n0rman's personal account now
18:52:53 <moray> yup
18:53:12 <n0rman> gwolf: i doesn't mean anything, I make questions to accounting people and they told me that it's ok
18:53:16 <moray> Hydroxide would probably still mutter something about where SPI can pass money to legally :)
18:53:16 <leogg> gwolf, as an educational institute, I think ISIC is tax exempt
18:53:31 <h01ger> leogg, its important to find out
18:53:31 <gwolf> n0rman: Can I transfer you US$shitload and you don't have to pay taxes for it?
18:53:32 <n0rman> leogg: yes, we are tax exempt
18:53:38 * gwolf moves his holdings and savings to Nicaragua
18:53:41 <leogg> yep
18:53:44 <n0rman> gwolf: no, only taxes for making the transfer
18:54:16 <gwolf> #info n0rman suggests using ISIC, an IT educational institute, as the entity for handling our funds in Nicaragua
18:54:48 <gwolf> n0rman: I think we have to check this with zack. We do have autonomy for spending DebConf money, but at least an OK from the DPL is in place
18:54:56 <gwolf> moray, h01ger: agree?
18:55:03 <h01ger> wont hurt for sure
18:55:05 <h01ger> ;)
18:55:17 <moray> gwolf: yes
18:55:23 <gwolf> I trust n0rman and ISIC, so I'm in
18:55:26 <n0rman> it's going to be in a sepparate account from the normally used for ISIC
18:55:34 <moray> and yes, the Nicaraguans should check the legal details again
18:55:43 <moray> one question is whether they can pass money back out
18:55:47 <moray> without losing lots of it
18:55:51 <gwolf> #info we will contact the DPL for his opinion on this
18:55:54 <n0rman> I ask to the bank and they told me that it's just needed and letter like an agreement between debconf/debian and ISIC
18:55:57 <leogg> moray, yes, that's an important one
18:55:59 <moray> also whether they will have any legal risk from doing this
18:55:59 <n0rman> and that¿'s it
18:56:13 <moray> n0rman: great
18:56:14 <gwolf> ok... So, I'll move to the next (sorely needed!) topic
18:56:22 <gwolf> #topic DebConf11 Final Report final(?) status
18:56:27 <gwolf> xamanu: News?
18:56:45 <xamanu> n0rman: I think the proposal from moray is good and valid. we should confirm this with a lawyer.just to make sure. as well that you can not get into trouble
18:56:53 <xamanu> I'm still waiting for some texts!
18:56:59 <xamanu> I'm still waiting for some texts! It is a pitty that they are still not completed.
18:57:05 <xamanu> As far as I know there are texts from nattie and darst missing.
18:57:06 <h01ger> xamanu, which?
18:57:07 <gwolf> xamanu: what are you missing?
18:57:13 <xamanu> Nattie promised me to send them over today.
18:57:23 <xamanu> Maybe both of them could tell us the status. In case they are here.
18:57:50 <h01ger> xamanu, which topics?
18:57:58 * h01ger hasnt seen darst online for quite some time
18:58:08 <moray> some time ago darst appeared to give a version of a text without numbers, do you have that?
18:58:12 * h01ger is prepared to wave to darst any minute now ;)
18:58:12 <gwolf> xamanu: darst sent a draft of the numbers and an introduction
18:58:17 <gwolf> let me look at my logs...
18:58:19 <moray> h01ger: nattie says he still exists fine
18:58:26 <xamanu> darst on budget
18:58:26 <h01ger> ah. cool.
18:58:55 <xamanu> not sure about nattie, she just told me last time I talked to her
18:59:10 <h01ger> nattie said she would join the meeting "maybe"
18:59:29 * h01ger pings nattie off-channel
18:59:37 <xamanu> Honestly I'm quite tired of asking constantly for texts since October. Anyway, when I get the texts I'll tex them within max. one week.
18:59:47 <moray> we are really really late on this now
18:59:57 <xamanu> I know, moray
18:59:58 <moray> not your fault, but please rush as much as you can
19:00:01 <gwolf> #info the final report is still pending the accounting part
19:00:02 <xamanu> The basic LaTeX structure is there, so it should be "only" assembling the texts, picking some pictures and making it nice. gwolf and tiago have offered help with that. So I might contact them when the texts are ready, so we can make a sprint to get all ready ASAP.
19:00:12 <gwolf> http://rkd.zgib.net/http/debconf/accounting-balances.txt
19:00:14 <h01ger> xamanu, try to write those texts yourself?
19:00:17 <xamanu> but first we need all texts
19:00:26 <gwolf> http://whiteboard.debian.net/73e9f7.wb
19:00:28 <moray> so someone doing layout "the next day" would be better than "within one week"
19:00:29 <xamanu> h01ger: are you kidding?
19:00:31 <h01ger> thats usually what has to be done. "alles muß man selber machen" ;)
19:00:33 <moray> someone should be doing layout already
19:00:34 <h01ger> xamanu, no
19:00:38 <aroundthfur> xamanu, h01ger which text are missing still?
19:00:40 <moray> and just leaving some gaps
19:00:44 <h01ger> we told you so, in banja luka! ;)
19:00:46 <moray> right
19:00:51 <h01ger> aroundthfur, budget + i dunno
19:00:56 <moray> usually we have to make up the texts, then get people to agree to put their name
19:01:06 <aroundthfur> h01ger, i can help with the budget
19:01:15 <h01ger> aroundthfur, cool! +hi! :)
19:01:22 <gwolf> xamanu: give us work ASAP!
19:01:23 <aroundthfur> but i don't think i am fit to do it all by myself!
19:01:27 <aroundthfur> h01ger, hi :)
19:01:28 <h01ger> aroundthfur, please do, see the urls gwolf just posted
19:01:36 <h01ger> aroundthfur, "just budget"
19:01:37 <gwolf> aroundthfur: look at the links I just sent
19:01:40 <h01ger> (at first... ;)
19:01:40 <gwolf> aroundthfur: (+hi!)
19:01:42 <moray> and can I repeat that we can always update the report later
19:01:53 <moray> the really urgent thing is to have *something* we can give out
19:01:55 <gwolf> moray: right. We have to get it published
19:02:12 <gwolf> #info aroundthfur shyly raises hand and volunteers to assemble the bits on the budget
19:02:12 <moray> even a version missing those texts, but typeset, would be useful
19:02:28 <aroundthfur> ok i will do as much as i can
19:02:40 <gwolf> #info even a version missing those texts, but typeset, would be useful. We can always update the report later.
19:02:42 <moray> and I know from experience that you can typeset a full magazine in an afternoon+evening, not a week
19:02:46 <aroundthfur> who should i poke about the budget things? darst?
19:02:59 <moray> (that's with complex layout, editing texts to fit pages etc., which isn't needed here)
19:03:00 <gwolf> aroundthfur: darst is sadly hard to poke lately
19:03:09 * h01ger nods moray
19:03:09 <h01ger> chemnitzer linuxtag in march is the next european/german opportunity to gather sponsors
19:03:24 <aroundthfur> gwolf, hmm ok i'll just poke some ppl around see who can help :)
19:03:30 <moray> h01ger: but we need a serious attempt starting e.g. next week
19:03:31 <gwolf> xamanu: So, when do you ping us to start working on the layout?
19:03:48 <gwolf> Is the layout in SVN/Git/RCS/Whatnot?
19:03:50 <xamanu> gwolf: we can start right now. I think I will have time on Sunday
19:03:50 <moray> h01ger: unfortunately I'm pretty busy (and not an expert on this), but people really need to get started
19:03:58 <xamanu> gwolf: it is all in SVN
19:04:07 <moray> h01ger: e.g. no one has even arranged the HP sponsorship, that they fortunately have budgetted for in advance
19:04:11 <gwolf> xamanu: please give the full location...
19:04:56 <h01ger> moray, ight
19:04:56 <moray> h01ger: but we are going to need a *lot* of emailing/phoning to get enough money
19:05:15 <moray> last year the sponsorship raised was not that much, beyond the government
19:05:22 * h01ger nods
19:05:24 <xamanu> svn.debian.org/svn/debconf-data/dc12/website
19:05:28 <moray> and I fear the RS government won't be giving this year :)
19:05:42 <h01ger> we should blog this. "sponsorsteam needs your help now"
19:06:00 <gwolf> xamanu: dc12/website for sure?
19:06:07 <h01ger> fundraising meeting, saturday, 12 UTC
19:06:18 <n0rman> xamanu: err debconf-data/reports/dc11
19:06:18 <moray> this can start even without levels, as usually it takes some work to find the right contact at a 'new' company
19:06:21 <h01ger> or maybe better, next weekend
19:06:32 <h01ger> (better for me)
19:06:33 <aroundthfur> h01ger, what can i do to help with sponsorship? or do you need more experienced ppl for that?
19:06:36 <xamanu> gwolf:no! sorry: svn.debian.org/svn/debconf-data/reports/dc11
19:06:44 <gwolf> #info we (xamanu, tiago, gwolf) will start working on assembling the texts in a LaTeX document, starting off svn.debian.org/svn/debconf-data/reports/dc11
19:06:45 <moray> aroundthfur: you can definitely help
19:06:46 <gwolf> thanks :)
19:06:51 <h01ger> aroundthfur, mail companies
19:06:54 <aroundthfur> moray, i hope so :)
19:06:54 <gwolf> #info EVERYBODY welcome to help! :)
19:07:00 <moray> aroundthfur: the team is rather moribund
19:07:02 <gwolf> Ok... So, there's a lot of work to do here
19:07:09 <gwolf> but we have to move to AOB
19:07:10 <n0rman> :)
19:07:20 <gwolf> #topic AOB/next meeting
19:07:21 <aroundthfur> h01ger, k i'll look into it over the weekend, then poke someone for more info if needed
19:07:22 <moray> h01ger: I'd vote 'this weekend' if you can possibly mange
19:07:23 <moray> manage
19:07:34 <n0rman> gwolf: before that, it would be helpful to set the date meeting
19:07:47 <gwolf> n0rman: look at the topic :)
19:07:52 <n0rman> I can join to the meeting this weekend  :)
19:07:56 <gwolf> "next meeting" is the date for the enxt meeting
19:07:58 <aroundthfur> h01ger, tnx
19:08:00 * h01ger has invited  aroundthfur to #debconf-sponsors (OFTC) - anybody else
19:08:01 <h01ger> ?
19:08:06 <gwolf> ah, the meeting to meet the LaTeXy stuff?
19:08:07 <h01ger> aroundthfur, dank dir!
19:08:11 <leogg> right n0rman, please read :)
19:08:11 <moray> h01ger: I can't help much, but I could discuss some points if it helps
19:08:15 <aroundthfur> h01ger, bitte schen!
19:08:18 <n0rman> gwolf: no, fundaraising
19:08:21 <h01ger> moray, +ping+pester, please
19:08:27 <aroundthfur> sch�
19:08:37 <gwolf> n0rman: Oh, of course! Well, I understood it'd not be a properly scheduled meeting
19:08:50 <gwolf> but talking it over with people on the channel+lists
19:08:55 <gwolf> but, be my guest :)
19:08:59 <n0rman> gwolf: we have a doubt about Debian Day and your suggestion of doing in a univerisity
19:09:28 <gwolf> n0rman: ..?
19:09:57 <n0rman> gwolf: h01ger if we finally decide Ticomo, it would be better to have Debian Day in a univerisity, but... what about video team?
19:10:06 <leogg> n0rman, we can take this on the list? I already answered gwolf
19:10:09 <n0rman> it is possible to move cameras to the univeristy and then back to Ticomo
19:10:17 <dam> Am I late for AOB?
19:10:28 <n0rman> leogg: yes, i read it
19:10:33 <moray> dam: we're in it
19:10:34 <gwolf> n0rman: I guess it would be without video coverage... But yes, there is not *that* much of a rush for that topic right now IMO
19:10:38 <gwolf> I'd go for the list as well
19:10:44 <gwolf> dam: bring your other business in
19:10:59 <dam> I haven't received travel reimbursement for DC11, is that normal?
19:11:06 <h01ger> does dc12 has a logo already?
19:11:09 <h01ger> AOB?
19:11:09 <h01ger> next meeting?
19:11:28 <gwolf> dam: It's not normal. But it's also AFAIK beyond this team's powers
19:11:31 <leogg> h01ger, yes, it's on the wiki
19:11:41 <gwolf> dam: Let us close the meeting, and then we can start talking about it :)
19:11:45 <n0rman> h01ger: yes, didn't you get the dc12 sticker in DC11?
19:11:57 <gwolf> So, next meeting is... In one month? Less?
19:12:05 <leogg> n0rman, I didn't get any stickers :(
19:12:14 <n0rman> leogg: I just have one on my computer
19:12:15 <gwolf> I'd prefer not doing more Doodle polls, but settling on a fixed schedule
19:12:17 <gregoa> another question: is there already any timeline for penta/registration/cfp etc.?
19:12:23 <dam> gwolf: fair enough
19:12:28 <leogg> gwolf, two weeks? three max?
19:12:41 <moray> gwolf: I fear two weeks might make sense
19:12:50 <gwolf> Is Wednesday 18:00UTC OK?
19:12:52 <moray> yes
19:12:58 <leogg> yes
19:13:01 <xamanu> yes
19:13:03 <n0rman> yes
19:13:13 <moray> self-selecting, of course :)
19:13:16 <gwolf> #info next meeting: Two weeks from now, February 22, 18:00 UTC
19:13:17 <moray> but it's a 'sensible' timeslot
19:13:22 <gwolf> perfect.
19:13:24 <moray> compared to weekends etc.
19:13:33 <h01ger> debianday elsewhere sucks big time for videoteam
19:13:41 * h01ger has some lag here
19:13:41 <gwolf> gregoa: nope, not yet :-P
19:13:59 <h01ger> leogg, n0rman: thanks. got the sticker too :)
19:14:01 <moray> h01ger: right.  on the hotel/debian day, we're currently looking for some options that are at all *possible*
19:14:10 <moray> we can worry about improving them after that
19:14:10 <leogg> :)
19:14:10 <gregoa> gwolf: I supposed so :) (might be an agenda item for one of the next meetings)
19:14:16 <gwolf> gregoa: surely :)
19:14:27 <gwolf> anyway... It's my privilege to tell you all that
19:14:29 <gwolf> #endmeeting