18:05:40 <moray> #startmeeting DebConf meeting
18:05:40 <MeetBot> Meeting started Wed Mar  7 18:05:40 2012 UTC.  The chair is moray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:05:40 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:05:41 <leogg> h01ger, o/
18:05:52 <moray> #topic Update from DebConf12 local team: venue
18:06:03 <leogg> hola!
18:06:16 <leogg> quick one: we don't have venue... yet!
18:06:29 <gwolf> \o/
18:06:32 <leogg> we have a meeting with UCA university next Wednesday
18:06:49 <leogg> so, we'll now for sure in a week
18:07:18 <gwolf> We are not considering CP anymore, or is it still possible in case all else fails?
18:07:19 <moray> #info Local team meeting UCA on Wednesday 14 March
18:07:39 <moray> gwolf: I think CP is the default option still for them, they're trying to make another work
18:07:41 <leogg> CP is still a possibility
18:07:57 <leogg> that's right... CP is the default option
18:08:02 <gwolf> ok
18:08:13 <leogg> (the more expensive one, but still the default option)
18:08:36 <leogg> we're taking a decision next Wednesday
18:08:47 <moray> #info http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf12/Venue/UCA
18:08:50 <leogg> we can't wait any longer
18:09:06 <moray> #topic Update from DebConf12 local team: budget
18:09:12 <moray> Well, that brings us to this one ^^
18:09:25 <moray> (CP is probably unachievably expensive)
18:09:25 <leogg> so, the budget estimate has been updated in svn
18:09:48 <leogg> UCa budget is ~138K
18:09:50 <moray> How much more have you managed to reduce the cost of the cheapest option?
18:09:53 <leogg> all included
18:10:12 <leogg> moray, about USD 7K so far
18:10:35 <moray> #info Current UCA budget estimate is about 138k USD
18:10:44 <leogg> we could reduce it more if we manage to get rid of taxes
18:10:56 <moray> what percentage is that?
18:10:59 <leogg> and we haven't negotiated with hotels yet
18:11:06 <leogg> moray, 15-17%
18:11:11 <gwolf> leogg: how probable is that we can evade^Wavoid^Wget rid of the taxes?
18:11:17 <leogg> in total it could go down USD10K more
18:11:48 <leogg> gwolf, I'd say it's very doable... but pessimistic me says 50-50
18:12:03 <gwolf> how long until we know?
18:12:25 <gwolf> I guess it's really related to ISIC's legal status/registration, right?
18:12:32 <leogg> gwolf, a couple of weeks maybe... we haven't managed to get a meeting with them
18:12:41 <moray> #info Local team looking at how to reduce taxes applicable
18:12:48 <n0rman> gwolf: I think it's possibly, we already had it, but since the director was changed, we are making contact again
18:12:49 <leogg> gwolf, not really... tax exemption is another different thing
18:13:01 <n0rman> gwolf: no, is not related
18:13:12 <leogg> it's related to consumer tax and tourism tax
18:13:18 <leogg> 15% and 2%
18:13:44 <gwolf> ok
18:14:04 <n0rman> and you pay tourism tax when you pay for a room in hotels
18:14:06 <gwolf> you mentioned that "we already had it but the director was changed"
18:14:17 <leogg> gwolf, yes, that's right
18:14:38 <gwolf> If we achieve it again, and the political scene shuffles directors or whatnot, and we continue budgeting thinking about this reduction... We are still likely to lose it?
18:15:01 <leogg> gwolf, not if we can get them to sign a written agreement
18:15:12 <leogg> that's what we failed to get before
18:15:37 <n0rman> yes
18:15:46 <gwolf> $(history|tail -2|head -1)
18:15:53 <gwolf> :)
18:16:12 <moray> #topic Update from DebConf12 local team: website
18:16:18 <moray> Looks like we have a website?
18:16:22 <leogg> yes!
18:16:31 <n0rman> finally :) we are ready
18:16:36 <moray> #info we have a website
18:16:51 <moray> #topic Update from DebConf12 local team: sponsorship brochure
18:16:59 <moray> Looks like we have a sponsorship brochure?
18:17:03 <leogg> yes!
18:17:06 <leogg> we have!
18:17:07 <n0rman> we have sponsorship brochure! :)
18:17:12 <leogg> in Spanish and English!
18:17:19 <moray> #info we have a sponsorship brochure, in Spanish and English
18:17:32 <gwolf> What‽ No Serbian‽
18:17:33 <moray> #topic DC11 final report: Do we have it finally?
18:17:39 <moray> Looks like we have a final report?
18:17:41 <gwolf> DC11 final report is ready
18:17:51 <moray> #info we have a final report
18:17:51 <n0rman> \o/
18:17:51 <leogg> yay!
18:18:02 * leogg hugs gwolf
18:18:06 * gwolf hugs leogg
18:18:10 <amaya> yay final report!
18:18:17 * gwolf dances with amaya
18:18:34 <gwolf> (move on, move on)
18:18:35 <moray> #topic Timeline/dates (registration, talk submission, sponsorship deadline)
18:18:46 <gwolf> ok, this can be a longer topic :(
18:18:51 <n0rman> gwolf: yes :)
18:18:52 <leogg> :)
18:18:55 <moray> might be better on the list?
18:19:01 <gwolf> We should have Penta or Whatnot ready
18:19:04 <n0rman> is penta ready for registration?
18:19:09 <moray> no...
18:19:16 <gwolf> But that's the reason I added a subpoint for this topic
18:19:23 <n0rman> gwolf: do you think is a good idea to change penta in this moment? :/
18:19:24 <gwolf> Ganneff: please open your eyes here?
18:19:27 <moray> #topic Timeline/dates interlude: registration infrastructure
18:19:29 <gwolf> n0rman: I'm not sure
18:19:43 <gwolf> n0rman: Penta has long served us, but it's a royal PITA
18:19:44 <leogg> I don't think it's a good idea to change penta right now
18:19:50 <gwolf> I can get it to work, I guess
18:19:52 <moray> If the new thing plausibly works it could be possible
18:19:59 <moray> it's getting late, but isn't quite too late yet
18:20:00 <gwolf> But Ganneff was suggesting a different platform
18:20:07 <moray> perhaps we shouldn't delay registration for this though?
18:20:22 <n0rman> gwolf: yes I know :/
18:20:23 <gwolf> I think we should go with Penta again this year
18:20:26 <moray> i.e. set a date and if it's not ready (in parallel with leaving penta working) we keep penta?
18:20:33 <gwolf> And we should investigate SomeOtherStuff for DC13
18:20:37 <moray> that date could be today, or up to a couple of weeks
18:20:39 <moray> but not long
18:20:57 <moray> can we set a non-today date, to give others a chance to object?
18:21:09 <moray> I know h01ger was keen on this, and he's not here
18:21:12 <gwolf> moray: I agree, although I think I'll stick to this position
18:21:17 <gwolf> but yes, this should be decided on list
18:21:22 <moray> sure
18:21:25 <gwolf> FWIW, I can set up the DC12 Penta instance
18:21:30 <moray> ok
18:21:33 <gwolf> I think I have everything needed in my hands
18:21:38 <moray> so when do we need to know if we're switching or not?
18:21:47 <gwolf> One week from now seems right?
18:21:52 * xamanu is arriving lately...
18:21:56 * xamanu reading log
18:22:06 <leogg> when we have a final decision about the venue?
18:22:09 <moray> #topic Timeline/dates (registration system decision, registration, talk submission, sponsorship deadline)
18:22:20 <n0rman> gwolf: do you think that one week is enough ?
18:22:34 <gwolf> n0rman: to decide whether we go to the other system or stay with Penta? Yes
18:22:44 <n0rman> gwolf: ok
18:22:51 <gwolf> n0rman: To set up them up, of course not.
18:23:08 <n0rman> and we need to have penta ready to decide date for registration, talk submission and sponsorship deadline?
18:23:19 <moray> gwolf: well, deciding without the other system set up isn't much use
18:23:20 <leogg> gwolf, how long would it take to setup the other sytem?
18:23:33 <moray> "yes we will switch to afewwefw" ... but no one does the work
18:23:47 <gwolf> moray: well, I don't remember the details about it, but we were first checking on its technical merits
18:24:04 <moray> gwolf: right, but I think we need to decide a date the other system would have to be working, otherwise we revert to penta
18:24:13 <moray> *even if* we would like to switch
18:24:28 <gwolf> And "setting up a real instance" is different from "playing with it enough to decide"
18:24:39 <moray> that date needs to be registration opening date - time enough to set up penta for dc12
18:24:51 <gwolf> right.
18:25:11 <moray> so do we decide registration opening date now, or on-list?
18:25:26 <leogg> better on list
18:25:35 <gwolf> on list.
18:25:35 <moray> ok
18:25:42 <moray> so we decide in a week if we would like to switch systems
18:25:57 <n0rman> yes
18:25:58 <moray> then at registration_date - time_for_penta_setup we possibly revert anyway
18:26:15 <leogg> yup
18:26:30 <moray> #info We should decide in the next week if we would like to switch to a new system from penta -- and a deadline by which the new system would have to be ready, or we would revert to penta
18:26:37 <cate> but when should the registration close?
18:26:52 <moray> cate: registration doesn't close until after the conference
18:26:59 <moray> applying for sponsorship closes earlier, though
18:27:26 <moray> (and asking for t-shirts etc. closes less early but still before the conference)
18:27:48 <moray> gwolf: can you post to the list about penta/replacements?
18:27:51 <gwolf> cate: right, right now we care about when the system is open :)
18:27:56 <gwolf> moray: ok
18:28:06 <moray> #info gwolf will post to the list about penta/replacements
18:28:23 <moray> and does someone volunteer to propose a timeline for registration/talk submission/sponsorship deadline etc.?
18:28:34 <moray> someone needs to do a first version that we can all tear apart :)
18:28:48 <moray> maybe a local team person can do this?
18:28:51 <xamanu> moray: i think we had one on the list
18:29:15 <moray> xamanu: ok -- so can you revive the discussion on that?
18:29:33 <moray> this also needs to bring in the travel bursaries team
18:29:40 <moray> to join in the discussion
18:29:41 <xamanu> we had:
18:29:44 <xamanu> 1. june: sponsorship deadlines
18:29:44 <xamanu> 1. june: paper submission deadline
18:29:53 <xamanu> and open registration ASAP
18:30:23 <moray> it needs some active prompting of responses
18:30:36 <moray> and comparison with previous years
18:30:44 <gwolf> (and team recruiting)
18:30:49 <n0rman> if we closes sponsorship deadline by june 1st, so we can open registration by mid april
18:30:50 <moray> to explain if it's earlier/later/the same, compared to the dates of debconf
18:30:51 <n0rman> I think
18:31:22 <moray> xamanu: so will you make a list discussion happen?
18:31:27 <xamanu> moray: yes
18:31:41 <moray> I need to be reminded myself to think more about it, I'm a bit busy with work just now
18:31:46 <moray> thanks
18:31:59 <moray> #info xamanu will make sure a list discussion happens about the timeline
18:32:18 <moray> #topic AOB/next meeting
18:32:51 <moray> Do you want a global meeting following your UCA meeting, or is the list enough for that?
18:32:56 <moray> (list and IRC, of course)
18:33:41 <gwolf> no OB?
18:33:46 <n0rman> I think it would be great, don't know what thinks leogg or xamanu
18:33:50 <xamanu> can we make a decision via the list?
18:34:06 <xamanu> i'd like to decide the venue as fast as we can
18:34:21 <leogg> moray, we can do it on the list
18:34:22 <moray> xamanu: in principle the list works, you might need to prod people to respond
18:34:43 <n0rman> yes
18:34:58 <moray> so in that case, next meeting in two weeks again?  (or longer? :)
18:35:05 <xamanu> i think a "fast" meeting (only one issue) would be good.
18:35:06 <n0rman> if we can make this fast, we will need a global meeting after our meeting with UCA
18:35:10 <leogg> two weeks is fine
18:35:25 <gwolf> well, it does not have to be a "formal" meeting
18:35:27 <leogg> I don't think we need a global meeting after UCA
18:35:35 <leogg> we can do it on the list
18:35:35 <gwolf> after all, we are all hanging around here most of the time
18:35:54 <xamanu> leogg: I just dont want to wait for the decision one week after our meeting with the UCA
18:35:56 <gwolf> if there's no controversial points to argue about...
18:36:05 <leogg> xamanu, we can decide on the list
18:36:06 <gwolf> I think the main points could be sent to the list
18:36:12 <gwolf> and if somebody objects, we discuss
18:36:17 <n0rman> leogg: if we want to make a decision ASAP we need the meeting
18:36:24 <xamanu> gwolf: thats fine for me
18:36:29 <gwolf> otherwise, in (post_time+1 day) we take the decision as accepted
18:36:36 <leogg> n0rman, we can take a decision ASAP on the list also
18:36:39 <n0rman> leogg: we have a deadline for venue decision in march 14, the day we have uca meeting
18:36:56 <leogg> n0rman, I know thar
18:37:03 <leogg> s/thar/that
18:37:30 <n0rman> so, if we wait for a response in mailing list, we will not have a decision in march 14
18:38:00 <n0rman> and we need it
18:38:01 <leogg> n0rman, we just need to ping people
18:38:38 <n0rman> uhmmm
18:38:39 <n0rman> as you wish
18:38:40 <xamanu> And if we give it a timeframe? Let's say that any objection has to be send to the list within post_date+2
18:38:59 <leogg> xamanu, I'm fine with that
18:39:08 <n0rman> xamanu: two days more after our deadline?
18:39:55 <xamanu> yes, two days are still ok. especially if we give them one week to play around with the registration system (which extends the registration opening date for one week...)
18:40:01 * n0rman sighs
18:40:28 <moray> well, you should try to get positive responses, not just wait for objections
18:40:38 <leogg> right
18:41:20 <moray> so, next meeting in ?2 weeks?
18:41:23 <xamanu> moray: of course, we hope you respond all. But we just want to have these two days timeframe to be sure to pressure a bit in order to have the venue decision very soon
18:41:36 <leogg> and I don't think global will object too much to the preference of the locals... unless we present something totally crazy and unrealistic
18:41:38 <moray> sure, I understand a deadline makes sense
18:42:22 <moray> I don't expect anything crazy, the most likely objection I can see if "yes, they said a couple of conditions we don't like, but it's still cheaper" if you didn't like something they said
18:42:37 <moray> s/see if/see is/
18:43:04 <leogg> yes, I think we're on the same page as global about the venue
18:43:37 <moray> on the general meeting point, do you want two weeks again?
18:44:09 <xamanu> yes
18:44:26 <leogg> yes
18:44:26 <moray> #info Next meeting 21 March, 18 UTC
18:44:33 <moray> Any other points for today?
18:44:34 <gwolf> (right, I also expect everybody to agree with the locals)
18:45:28 <moray> ...
18:45:32 <leogg> nothing more from me
18:45:37 <leogg> xamanu, n0rman ?
18:45:43 <xamanu> not from me
18:46:18 <moray> ok, thanks
18:46:21 <moray> #endmeeting