18:00:48 <gaudenz> #startmeeting
18:00:48 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue May  7 18:00:48 2013 UTC.  The chair is gaudenz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:00:48 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:00:53 * XTaran is here despite being one of the "I can't people"
18:01:11 <gaudenz> agenda: https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf13/Meetings/20130507
18:01:35 <gaudenz> anything to add?
18:01:54 <gwolf> lets get it moving
18:01:54 <heiserhorn> no
18:02:01 <gwolf> if there's anything to add, people will add it along the way
18:02:04 <gaudenz> #topic DC12 final report
18:02:26 <gaudenz> OdyX released an RC2 this morning.
18:02:55 <gaudenz> vorlon volunteered to do some english review of the budgeting part some meetings ago. AFAIK this has not happened yet.
18:03:03 <gwolf> We had labeled the report "RC" because it was *mainly* missing the budgeting part. There were two other two missing sections (which I don't remember), but *I think* they were not that important.
18:03:15 <gaudenz> Should we wait for this to happen (by vorlon or someone else) or just release the final version?
18:03:53 <gaudenz> has anyone else read the budgeting part? Do you think it's releaseable as it is?
18:03:54 <gwolf> gaudenz: I'd wait for the review to be done, as it's just a minor missing issue (I'd do it if I trusted my English enough)
18:04:17 <gaudenz> gwolf: I agree if the review will be done soon.
18:04:26 <gaudenz> anyone present willing to take over?
18:04:31 <wendar> gwolf: I can substitute on English review if needed
18:04:49 <gwolf> gaudenz: Anything pointing to vorlon taking long in doing it?
18:05:10 <wendar> gwolf: possibly big release of project he manages on April 25th?
18:05:11 <gaudenz> gwolf: I think he volunteered like 1.5 months ago
18:05:18 <gwolf> wendar: If vorlon is already working on it, I prefer not to take it from his hands :)
18:05:19 <wendar> (like, that's almost certainly the cause)
18:05:31 <wendar> which means, he probably has time now, if you ping him
18:05:41 <gwolf> gaudenz: oh, right? I thought the new text was received in much less recently than that
18:05:43 <gaudenz> wendar: can you coordinate with vorlon ?
18:05:51 <wendar> gaudenz: sure
18:05:52 <gwolf> but anyway - If that's the case, wendar, I'm all for you taking it
18:05:59 <gwolf> it will not be any offence to vorlon for sure
18:06:05 <wendar> indeed
18:06:14 <gwolf> vorlon: (ping, of course)
18:06:29 <gaudenz> #action wendar and vorlon coordinate who does the english review of the budgeting part. Then release the final report for DC12
18:06:42 <gaudenz> #topic Team roundtable
18:07:11 <gaudenz> The idea here is to see which teams need help and which are alive and doing fine. To give a short status update on the whole project.
18:07:54 <cate> considering the missing people, I think call for help should be done on list
18:07:56 <gaudenz> Sponsorhip has mostly done it's work. Currently some negotations are still pending, but not much is going on
18:08:25 <gaudenz> cate: Do you propose to move this completely to the list?
18:08:39 <gaudenz> IMO it's not only about call for help, but also about status updates.
18:08:48 <gwolf> cate: maybe try to get each of the topics on this list picked up by people currently present?
18:08:54 <cate> Calling for help if few people are listeing... doesn't seem much sensible
18:09:02 <gwolf> (of course, not aiming to 100% coverage)
18:09:03 <cate> and anyway much more people are reading list
18:09:08 <gwolf> just as a starter...?
18:09:25 <cate> but ok for the status
18:09:50 <gaudenz> Finances: Is someone knowledgeable around?
18:10:29 <Y_Plentyn> doesn't seem so
18:10:51 <gaudenz> AFAIK this is mostly hug with some help of darst.
18:11:16 <gaudenz> Penta?
18:11:25 <gaudenz> Ganneff: ^^
18:11:53 <Ganneff> well
18:11:54 <Ganneff> me.
18:12:01 <Ganneff> gwolf wanted out this year
18:12:08 <Ganneff> hug is giving some patches i then have to fix.
18:12:11 <gaudenz> Is there still work to be done or is everything right?
18:12:11 <Ganneff> :)
18:12:12 <gwolf> Ganneff: yup, and I am a man of word ;-)
18:12:21 <Ganneff> gwolf: you are still listed on the wiki
18:12:24 <cate> Ganneff: my access to db
18:12:28 <Ganneff> cate: yah
18:12:29 <gwolf> Ganneff: the wiki lies!
18:12:39 <Ganneff> gaudenz: yes, some things, but nothing major. this year.
18:12:44 <gaudenz> gwolf: you can make it tell the truth ;-)
18:12:58 <gwolf> right, am on my way
18:13:02 <gaudenz> ok thanks to Ganneff for working on this beast!
18:13:05 <Ganneff> unless the swiss (hello) decide to change the whole interface again :)
18:13:06 <Y_Plentyn> hm... you need help...
18:13:38 <gaudenz> Y_Plentyn: ?
18:13:59 <gaudenz> Ganneff: does it make sense to still ask for help in the wiki?
18:14:16 <gwolf> gaudenz: help should be seeked by all possible means
18:14:17 <gwolf> wiki included
18:14:40 <gaudenz> gwolf: but if other parts need more help it might be suboptimal.
18:14:51 <gaudenz> but ok next team I think
18:15:01 <gaudenz> Bursaries / Herb?
18:15:09 <gaudenz> Anyone around? bremner ?
18:15:10 <gwolf> Ganneff should really get more help fro Penta anyway.
18:15:16 <Ganneff> gaudenz: not for this year.
18:15:19 <Ganneff> for the long run - definitely
18:15:22 <gwolf> gaudenz: I am willing to enter Herb this year
18:15:36 <cate> the herb team should be recostituited and delegated
18:15:37 <bremner> afaik, nothing happened with herb yet?
18:15:53 <bremner> but, yes, I can do herb again.
18:15:56 <gaudenz> Nothing happened yet, but we need to start work soon.
18:16:03 <Y_Plentyn> with penta, am I wrong?
18:16:22 <Y_Plentyn> am I still there?
18:16:42 <gwolf> Y_Plentyn: No, you are not there.
18:17:08 <aw_> nargh
18:17:11 <gaudenz> So bremner and gwolf for herb, I guess you need more people. Are you going to organize a call for help?
18:17:17 <Ganneff> aw_: changing servers for no reason... - and yes, we can use help with penta for the long run.
18:17:24 <gaudenz> or first ping the others from last year?
18:17:27 <gwolf> gaudenz: I guess so. We usually were ~7-10 people
18:17:36 <gwolf> I'd do as you say: First ping previous team members
18:17:53 <bremner> gwolf: OK, you or me to do pinging?
18:18:02 <gaudenz> #action gwolf and bremner to first ping last years herb team and then eventually ask for help on-list
18:18:02 <bremner> silly question...
18:18:12 <gaudenz> #save
18:18:23 <gaudenz> next team is Visa
18:18:30 <gwolf> bremner: as you prefer. I slightly prefer you pinging, of course ;-) but I'm willing to pick it up
18:18:43 <gaudenz> AFAIK there is also an alias for this team, but I don't know if anyone is working on it.
18:18:56 <bremner> gwolf: I can do it friday at latest... Do you have time sooner?
18:19:01 <cate> gaudenz: yes, we are in 3 or 4
18:19:02 <gwolf> Ganneff: who does visa@ point to now?
18:19:22 <cate> n0rman, rafw and me for sure, and we are alread discussing things
18:19:27 <gwolf> bremner: I *might*. But I'm currently somewhat overworked, and am getting used to overcommitting time :(
18:19:28 <Ganneff> norman, cate, rafw
18:20:25 <gaudenz> cate, rafw, n0rman: can you handle this?
18:20:28 <cate> haveing one or two more would be nice
18:20:55 <gaudenz> To me it's not really clear what needs to be done here and how this differs from registration.
18:21:20 <gwolf> gaudenz: aiding people that need visas to get the proper documents, make sure they get the needed information...
18:21:35 <cate> gaudenz: handling some more private stuffs (passport number etc.). The real work is to check that we answer people
18:21:52 <gwolf> explainign to govt. that this debconf thingy is for real
18:21:53 <cate> so, ticket system would also be nice. Ganneff <<< ;-)
18:22:04 <gaudenz> wouldn't it be better to combine this with the registration team?
18:22:15 <gwolf> gaudenz: it's very different work (and workload)
18:22:20 <gaudenz> passport number don't seem to be very sensitive information to me.
18:22:25 <gwolf> IMO they make sense to be very different things
18:22:33 <gaudenz> gwolf: OK
18:22:34 <Ganneff> cate: thur or fri.
18:22:49 <cate> registration is also a very abstract team. there are many "subteam/task" in registration@
18:23:28 <gaudenz> As we are at it, next team registration, I skipped that earlier
18:23:44 <gaudenz> Who is on the registration alias and are there enough people?
18:23:51 <nattie> i'm meant to be on it, i guess
18:23:53 <n0rman> we just need to prepare the invitation letter if there is none letter yet
18:23:58 <nattie> having previously been on for DC11
18:24:11 <gaudenz> Ganneff: did you already add nattie?
18:24:19 <nattie> gaudenz: i believe he did
18:24:24 <Ganneff> yes
18:24:26 <gaudenz> Would probably be nice to have at least one DC14 person as well.
18:24:33 <cate> gaudenz: the visa team + OdyX and  nattie
18:24:44 <n0rman> so, I was planning to recycle DC11 and DC12 letter
18:24:47 <Y_Plentyn> the list ofr members is empty in the wiki
18:24:58 <cate> and hug and his girlfriend IIRC
18:24:59 <nattie> n0rman: if it wants any proofreading, give me a prod
18:25:12 <gaudenz> Yeah would be nice if team members would add their name on the wiki.
18:25:17 <Ganneff> registration is norman, cate, rafw, Y_Plentyn, alfusainey.jallow, darst, nattie
18:25:18 <n0rman> nattie: sure! :)
18:25:41 <gaudenz> registration seems like well staffed at the moment.
18:25:50 <n0rman> yes
18:25:57 <gaudenz> so next team is Talks
18:26:44 <gwolf> I'm also up for the talks team
18:26:57 <gaudenz> gwolf and tille volunteered to do the call for talks if IIRC
18:27:06 <Y_Plentyn> #todo norman, cate, rafw, Y_Plentyn, alfusainey.jallow, darst, nattie should put their names in https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf13/Teams/Front_Desk#Registration_team_.28pre-conference.29
18:27:07 <gwolf> As I was telling bremner privately - I'm currently with overcommitted time
18:27:10 <cate> tille just wrote a mail
18:27:21 <gaudenz> #save
18:27:22 <gwolf> but I looked at the wiki page IIRC by cate
18:27:41 <gwolf> ... Looks fine. Next steps that have to be taken is, again, to assemble a team
18:27:46 <gwolf> ...And to publish the CfP
18:28:20 <gaudenz> #action norman, cate, rafw, Y_Plentyn, alfusainey.jallow, darst, nattie should put their names in https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf13/Teams/Front_Desk#Registration_team_.28pre-conference.29
18:28:23 <cate> as last year, I would like to be on the scheduling team
18:28:30 <tiago_> gwolf, you assemble a team and i'll be part of it, +tassia :)
18:28:37 <gwolf> tiago_: :D
18:28:37 <cate> (and on-site talk/scheduling)
18:28:42 <tiago_> poor gwolf
18:28:44 <gwolf> tiago_: and we also have Andreas Tille on board
18:28:49 <tiago_> great
18:29:07 <gwolf> so that makes already a good part of the teeam. Ok, I'll push that soon - in the course of this week
18:29:12 <gwolf> cate: note taken
18:29:20 <gaudenz> gwolf: thanks
18:29:24 <gwolf> #info cate volunteers to be on the scheduling team
18:29:33 <gwolf> #info tassia + tiago (+tille by mail) on the talks team
18:29:34 <gaudenz> If you need more people for talks rating/selection I'm willing to help here.
18:29:46 <gwolf> #info (and gwolf on both, if it was not obvious ;-) )
18:29:48 <gaudenz> #info gaudenz volunteers for talks rating
18:29:54 <nattie> again, i'm happy to be random floating proofreader for the CfP too
18:30:12 <nattie> though i expect it to already be excellent english and not really need me :)
18:30:19 <gaudenz> So it seems the CfP is well on it's way.
18:30:31 <gwolf> yes, should be sent soon.
18:30:35 <gaudenz> next Tech / Networking
18:30:39 <gaudenz> XTaran: ^^
18:31:23 <XTaran> I had to cancel our planned meeting last week. Current plan is to meet next week as we're both not at home for the rest of the week.
18:31:54 <gaudenz> The members list should probably be updated.
18:32:24 <XTaran> Maybe, yes.
18:32:29 <gaudenz> AFAIK zobel also worked with you
18:32:41 <gaudenz> but anyway do you think you need more help?
18:32:52 <XTaran> gaudenz: Acutally I don't know.
18:33:08 <XTaran> gaudenz: I hope that will be clear after my meeting with hug.
18:33:14 <gaudenz> So if you don't know I guess not for now, but maybe closer to the event.
18:33:18 <gwolf> well, but network team has very distinct periods
18:33:19 <XTaran> Focus is currently on network stuff
18:33:24 <gwolf> planning and implementation
18:33:28 <XTaran> gaudenz: Yes
18:33:33 <gaudenz> Currently the focus is on planing.
18:33:38 <XTaran> Yes
18:33:42 <gwolf> so... XTaran, so far, are you happy with being listed as Teh Network Man?
18:33:52 <gaudenz> so next team is video
18:33:58 <gaudenz> Is h01ger around?
18:34:14 <gaudenz> To me it seems quite self-organized and like it does not need any help atm.
18:34:20 <gwolf> He seems to be away. Of course he will have quite a bit to coordinate with XTaran as well
18:34:33 <XTaran> gwolf: I'm happy to be the network man, but not happy with how I'm listed currently on the wiki. I don't feel responsible for any website stuff.
18:35:01 <gwolf> lazyb0y: Hi and welcome! Sorry for breaking the meeting strict ordering - Do you recognize http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/debconf-data/reports/dc12/budget.tex?view=markup as the text that needs to be finished reviewing?
18:35:15 <gaudenz> XTaran: I think you can remove the website stuff.
18:35:24 <XTaran> gaudenz: Just done. :)
18:35:42 <gaudenz> Anyway website has been mostly done by OdyX in the past.
18:36:06 <lazyb0y> hi gwolf - sorry for having been out...
18:36:33 <gaudenz> The idea of the last local team meeting was to have DebianDay, Daytrip, Bar, Accomodation/Food (contact to Le Camp) mostly organized locally.
18:36:38 <gwolf> lazyb0y: the good thing is that you are here :) And wendar is reviewing your text.
18:36:40 <gaudenz> Do you see problems with this?
18:37:06 <cate> Define accommodation and food
18:37:18 <gaudenz> cate: do you see the parantheses?
18:37:27 <lazyb0y> gwolf: yes, that's the text I'd like to be reviewed and that can be released afterwards!
18:37:30 <cate> ah,  ok
18:37:40 <gaudenz> cate: I think it's the contact to le camp side of accomodation and food.
18:37:51 <gaudenz> but I agree that this one is not purely local.
18:38:01 <heiserhorn> who's in charge of it?
18:38:12 <gaudenz> AFAIK no one yet.
18:38:28 <cate> more than "local", probably we need a name of few persons (if someone have real questions)
18:38:37 <gaudenz> maybe just remove this point. We need to sort this out first.
18:39:13 <gaudenz> But do you agree that DebianDay, Daytrip, Bar are mostly local things and don't have to go through the global team all the time?
18:39:35 <gaudenz> Of course if there are proposals or important decisions it's going through the global team.
18:39:51 <heiserhorn> I agree
18:39:54 <gwolf> gaudenz: not all the time, but at least meaningful summaries
18:40:08 <gwolf> but yes, having everything go through global rubberstamping is quite demotivating
18:40:13 <cate> status and big budget changes should be put in the -team, but I agree that most of things are locals
18:41:14 <gaudenz> #agreed DebianDay, Daytrip, Bar are mostly local things, but big changes and budget changes need to go through the global team.
18:41:23 <gaudenz> #topic DebCamp
18:42:08 <gaudenz> The status is that we did not receive a contract yet. Hug phoned them several times but mrp seems to be unavailable so he could only talk to his assistant.
18:42:47 <gaudenz> The plan is to have 2-3 buildings for if we have enough money 5 days.
18:43:16 * gwolf would be very pleased with 2-3 buildings for 5 days
18:43:17 <gaudenz> With the calculation we did the 20k should be enough for about 60 people.
18:43:50 <gaudenz> My main concern is that if I interpret the munin data correctly we have a hughe interest in DebCamp. So the money might not be enough.
18:44:16 <cate> herb team should be stricted for debcamp
18:44:36 <gwolf> gaudenz: we might be forced to limit attendance to DebCamp - In the past, we have requested for a reasoning on why do people want to attend DebCamp
18:44:49 <gaudenz> Ganneff: is ":: Number of people who would attend debcamp" the new question in penta already?
18:44:58 <gwolf> This year it won't be, if it's as you say, a matter of choosing to sponsor them or not — But to tell them "no place for you, sorry"
18:44:59 <XTaran> gwolf: But wasn't that mostly for the sponsoring?
18:45:07 <gwolf> XTaran: right, see my 2nd line :)
18:45:18 <nattie> gaudenz: it appears to be
18:45:27 <gwolf> XTaran: If we are space-deprived (translated to money-deprived), we will have to make such a choice
18:45:30 <nattie> (there was a tickybox for debcamp when i registered)
18:45:30 <Ganneff> all munin graphs are for dc13
18:45:35 <Ganneff> 2 seem to have some problem.
18:45:40 <gwolf> (of course, it has to be early, as it impacts travel plans and yadayada)
18:45:41 <gaudenz> #info already 59 people express interest in DebCamp
18:46:00 <gaudenz> gwolf: If they are willing to pay, we can rent more buildings.
18:46:13 <gaudenz> The problem is more with the 20k we allocated for this.
18:46:18 <gwolf> gaudenz: _today_ we can rent more buildings. I don't know if by July 25 we still will
18:46:36 <gwolf> *and* I don't expect the allowance to camp on tents is extensive to DebCamp
18:47:23 <gaudenz> gwolf: currently not, but that's one of the discussion points. I'd like to have the exact same contract as for DebConf just with fewer buildings. But without talking to mrp we don't know if that's possible.
18:47:50 <gwolf> I don't expect they will want to, having additional guests on site... It would be very nice if they did
18:47:51 <gaudenz> #info hug is in negotiation with le camp.
18:48:11 <gaudenz> Without hug there is not much we can do now.
18:48:18 <gwolf> so next point...
18:48:29 <gaudenz> #topic Registration status
18:48:35 <gwolf> that's mostly Ganneff-related?
18:48:48 <gwolf> ah, no, sorry
18:49:03 <gwolf> it's whole-orga-team-related :)
18:49:08 <gaudenz> we have 131 participants currently
18:49:20 <gaudenz> I'm a bit confused because the totals are not the same on each graph.
18:49:43 <gwolf> sponsored deadline was for... May 15, right?
18:49:50 <gwolf> should we send a reminder?
18:49:51 <gaudenz> like gender has a total of 124 and registration category only 120
18:50:12 <nattie> some people either have no gender or are forgetful about tickyboxes
18:50:23 <cate> 124 attendee=yes, 7 = no
18:50:23 <gaudenz> gwolf: I think we should send one. Or send it together with the CfP
18:50:58 * h01ger waves, just being in this room since a minute. i'm sorry but...
18:51:00 <gaudenz> cate?
18:51:01 <h01ger> someone please #save
18:51:08 <gaudenz> #save
18:51:19 <h01ger> gaudenz, merci^wdanke
18:51:20 <gwolf> gaudenz: I'd go for an earlier one - It might take me a couple of days to do the CfP
18:51:28 <gwolf> The CfP will work anyway as an extra call
18:51:41 <gwolf> but an express call for "sponsored deadline" won't hurt, don't you think?
18:51:52 <cate> gaudenz: I was explainging the 131 people in DC13, but only 124 have set "I attend"
18:52:01 <gaudenz> Ganneff: Do you have numbers on the communal accomodation survey questions?
18:52:14 <nattie> cate: some people are forgetful about tickyboxes. the reminder won't hurt
18:52:19 <XTaran> cate: I missed that tick box initially, too. Was not too obvious.
18:52:42 <gaudenz> cate: where can we see that? I think it's a bit weird to have those not attanding in the graph about accomodation...
18:52:55 <nattie> XTaran: we've had a tickybox for that every year though, i believe
18:52:57 <cate> I think I would send a mail to the people with attend=no
18:53:00 <nattie> or certainly for the last few years
18:53:09 <gwolf> gaudenz: http://munin.debconf.org/debconf.org/skinner.debconf.org-penta_accomodation.html
18:53:12 <XTaran> nattie: It should be set to yes by default IMHO.
18:53:15 <cate> gaudenz: extended search, you filter attendee field
18:53:34 <nattie> XTaran: wasn't it an antispam measure?  to protect against spurious registrations?
18:53:47 <gaudenz> gwolf: yes there are 131 participants currently, but according to cate only 124 want to attend...
18:53:50 <XTaran> At least I suspect that box is only useful if someone has to cancel after registrating.
18:53:59 <cate> no, people are registering ,and later they find other plans
18:54:05 <XTaran> nattie: Really? Then it will definitely cause false negatives.
18:54:06 <h01ger> video team is fine. really. there is "even" a replacement for me should the bus decide to hit me. plus there are also, and hopefully more importantly, new ideas floating around. probably not yet hd this year, sorry.
18:54:33 <gwolf> gaudenz: no, I meant about your question on the communal accomodation survey
18:54:55 <gaudenz> gwolf: not that's not that questions, unless I'm completely mistaken.
18:55:02 <cate> h01ger: there was a question about when do you prefer to have the buildings to set up video
18:55:11 <gaudenz> gwolf: I mean vorlons question "I would accept ..."
18:55:22 <gwolf> Currently we have 65 for "sponsored", 10 for "paid communal", 9 for "paid camping", 17 for "paid 8-bed room" and 2 for "paid 2-bed room"
18:55:29 <gwolf> oh
18:56:07 <cate> The communnal question doesn't seem to be in the extended interface
18:56:25 <gaudenz> cate: right, that's why I'm asking Ganneff for numbers.
18:56:38 <h01ger> cate, "2 days before latest", needing to peek in earlier, 3-4 days in advance is better (if free), else 1-2 days is really enough. 1 day is stressing it (and i would NOT want to stress it to save 500 CHF)
18:56:57 <h01ger> to save 3000 CHF, yes.
18:57:00 <cate> hug: ^^
18:57:27 <h01ger> s/3000/~3000/ :)
18:57:38 <gaudenz> #action Ganneff to put the numbers about the communal accomodation survey into munin graphs.
18:58:02 <Ganneff> someone get me a munin script :)
18:58:03 <h01ger> looking at the munin graphs, i think we should invite families, else le camp will look empty
18:58:08 <gaudenz> How do we want to handle registrations for rooms after the sponsorship deadline?
18:58:23 <XTaran> h01ger: URL?
18:58:31 <gaudenz> Do you agree that it's first-come first-served without any preference for contributors?
18:58:32 <h01ger> XTaran, http://munin.debconf.org/debconf.org/skinner.debconf.org.html
18:58:49 <h01ger> gaudenz, i think thats one reasonable approach, yes
18:58:56 * gwolf has to go
18:59:02 <gaudenz> h01ger: only one?
18:59:03 <gwolf> i'm sorry to be so sharp-on-the-clock
18:59:07 <h01ger> (as seen in munichs recently..)
18:59:10 <gwolf> but sometimes it happens :)
18:59:13 <gaudenz> gwolf: have a nice day!
18:59:18 <gwolf> thanks all! :)
18:59:25 <h01ger> bye gunnar
18:59:34 <XTaran> cu gwolf
18:59:58 <lazyb0y> tschüss gwolf :)
19:00:11 <gwolf> (did lazyb0y just sneeze?)
19:00:11 <gaudenz> Does anyone oppose the first-come first-served approach?
19:00:14 <gwolf> bye all!
19:00:17 <h01ger> gaudenz, it failed completly just now in munich. so when i say its one reasonable approach, i'm giving it the most support that i can
19:00:46 * gaudenz does not know what munich has to do with this, can you enlighten us?
19:00:57 <lazyb0y> gwolf: it's a goodbye allergy
19:02:03 <gaudenz> I take the silence as an agreement.
19:02:19 <nattie> that's not giving it much time
19:02:22 <XTaran> gaudenz: No. We're waiting for h01ger's explanation
19:02:45 <cate> and we expect a long explanation ;-)
19:02:50 <h01ger> gaudenz, long story short: first come first serve didnt work, so they did it again and resorted to lottery
19:02:59 <h01ger> this was about seats in a justice process
19:03:17 <XTaran> h01ger: Ah, you mean the NSU stuff?
19:03:20 <h01ger> ja
19:03:25 <gaudenz> ok
19:03:50 <h01ger> and as i said, about dc13:
19:03:51 <gaudenz> So it seems my call to wake people up was successful. So do you have any alternative suggestions.
19:03:52 <h01ger> <h01ger> gaudenz, i think thats one reasonable approach, yes
19:04:35 <h01ger> gaudenz, my 2nd alternative would be: let some people paint the bikeshed in one corner. lets trust them. lets let them do it. next topic?!
19:04:54 <cate> After confirmation close, we need the first in, first out. But I don't want to have 3 different allocation methods..
19:05:48 <gaudenz> h01ger: the advantage of agreeing now is that we can tell people currently asking on-list.
19:05:54 <cate> BTW we can discuss on next meeting, with real numbers
19:06:09 <cate> ah.. teh families..
19:06:16 <gaudenz> cate: the next meeting is way past the deadline.
19:06:23 <h01ger> gaudenz, sure. i wasnt arguing against that
19:06:35 <gaudenz> yes this is mostly about what to tell families and partners.
19:07:14 <cate> gaudenz: I think it doesn't matter. Other people will not know the category of the rooms soon after registration closes
19:07:35 <cate> but I agree that families need to know
19:07:44 <gaudenz> cate: why? It was at least my impression that we want to do that soon after the deadline.
19:08:43 <gaudenz> As there was no opposition or alternative to first-come first-served I think we can just agree on it. Can't we?
19:09:00 <cate> but now I'm confused..
19:09:13 <cate> We are talking about people registering after 15 may, right?
19:09:19 <gaudenz> cate: right
19:09:21 <cate> or also families registering now
19:09:30 <gaudenz> those too I guess
19:10:03 <gaudenz> first-come first-served would mean that we can tell them that it's ok if we have space after giving all contributors registering before the deadline a place.
19:10:46 <gaudenz> So for those registering now, they should know by the end of May or even earlier, depeinding on how fast we do the math.
19:11:22 <cate> Right
19:11:37 <gaudenz> We are 12 minutes over time.
19:11:40 <cate> So I think first served is the best option for people after registration closes.
19:11:48 <h01ger> if not first-come, whats the "tell-when" policy anyway?
19:11:54 <cate> But not for now
19:12:02 <gaudenz> cate: sure,
19:12:09 <gaudenz> cate: this was never my intention.
19:12:15 <gaudenz> #agreed after the sponsored registartion deadline the remaining rooms are distributed on a first-come first-served basis.
19:12:37 <gaudenz> and now for the last point
19:12:38 <XTaran> gaudenz: Does that also count for upgrades?
19:12:58 <gaudenz> XTaran: as we don't even know yet if there will be upgrades, I don't know.
19:13:06 <XTaran> I see.
19:13:07 <h01ger> should we announce this together with a deadline reminder?
19:13:17 <h01ger> "countdown for the race to beds"
19:13:22 <gaudenz> h01ger: I think that's a good idea.
19:13:27 * h01ger too
19:13:40 <gaudenz> Also to remind all contributors that they should register now, even if they don't apply for sponsorship.
19:13:41 <cate> hmm
19:13:46 <h01ger> yup
19:13:53 <h01ger> cate, ?
19:14:18 <cate> it seems strange
19:14:35 <h01ger> btw, where is the agenda for this meeting? we are at 75min already...
19:14:42 <cate> "register now, but if you forget to register within 15 may, please rush to register"
19:14:45 <XTaran> h01ger: https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf13/Meetings/20130507
19:15:00 <cate> but let's go on
19:15:17 <h01ger> thats after the deadline then, so their loss
19:15:20 <h01ger> XTaran, thanks
19:15:23 <gaudenz> the last point is if we should announce a date for our sponsorship and room decisions
19:15:52 * h01ger ufffs at the agenda and the time
19:15:57 <h01ger> how to do that in 15min?
19:16:08 <gaudenz> I mean after the 15th we have to do all the math and see if we have enough rooms in all the categories and decide if there are upgrades and what to do with the communal accomodation survey...
19:16:13 <XTaran> h01ger: Hey, we are at the very last point.
19:16:44 <h01ger> XTaran, uff. happy i mis-read then. there is registration before.. :)
19:17:00 <cate> gaudenz: I would not set a date, but we should try to get things done by end of may
19:17:08 <XTaran> h01ger: That was "Teams: Registration"
19:17:09 <gaudenz> I'm a bit unsure about this. On one hand it would make the planing for attendees simpler, but on the other hand we are then bound to this date. And usually it takes longer than we think.
19:17:16 <h01ger> XTaran, *nods*
19:17:47 * gaudenz agrees with cate about end of may.
19:17:53 <cate> And BTW I would like to extend registration
19:18:04 <h01ger> cate, you mean sponsoredẞ
19:18:07 <h01ger> ?
19:18:11 <cate> yes
19:18:14 <h01ger> why
19:18:39 <cate> it was too short, and usaully deadline are extended in conferences ;-)
19:18:42 * gaudenz is inclined to defer this discussion to the list as it's not on the agenda.
19:18:49 * XTaran agrees with cate.
19:18:57 <h01ger> hows the cfp going?
19:19:06 <gaudenz> h01ger: see backlog
19:19:09 <h01ger> should we extend that?
19:19:28 <gaudenz> h01ger: there is no date for the cfp submission yet.
19:19:31 <h01ger> cate, extend by what? a day? week? month?
19:19:54 <h01ger> gaudenz, we need one, for travel sponsorship. speakers should probably get that
19:20:07 * gaudenz thinks that we should not extend
19:20:18 <cate> h01ger: 5 days (a week-end)
19:20:19 <gaudenz> h01ger: I don't understand what you mean
19:20:37 * XTaran would have said even 1 week.
19:20:44 <h01ger> gaudenz, what exactly you dont understand?
19:20:57 <gaudenz> I think having the deadline soon helps us to go on with planing. And the registration should not have come as a surprise.
19:21:10 <h01ger> cfp i'm talking about
19:21:13 <gaudenz> 21:20 <    h01ger> gaudenz, we need one, for travel sponsorship. speakers should probably get that
19:21:28 <h01ger> <gaudenz> h01ger: there is no date for the cfp submission yet.
19:21:31 <h01ger> one ^
19:21:43 <h01ger> "we need one" ^
19:22:25 <gaudenz> h01ger: I still fail to understand how talk submission is linked to travel sponsorship.
19:22:26 * XTaran has to go.
19:22:39 <h01ger> in real, proper, english probably: we need a deadline for the cfp too, because we want/need to give travel+other sponsorship to speakers too which should work well with everythign else we do
19:22:40 <gaudenz> but yeah I think we should close the meeting.
19:22:41 <bremner> gaudenz: it's useful data for the decision.
19:22:43 <cate> deadline for cfp is 1 june
19:22:50 <h01ger> gaudenz, ^ there
19:22:51 <nattie> gaudenz: attendees whose attendance is dependent on whether they're presenting or not might find it relevant
19:23:07 * gaudenz now agrees with h01ger.
19:23:14 <h01ger> \o/ :)
19:23:21 <gaudenz> But i think this does not mean that we should extend the application deadline.
19:23:34 <h01ger> gaudenz, right. (thats what you think :)
19:23:43 <nattie> it does mean we should try to get the cfp out sooner rather than later, but even gwolf is only human
19:23:50 * h01ger is indifferent about whether to extend it a week
19:23:57 <h01ger> but we should decide RSN
19:24:11 <h01ger> cause we wanted to remind of the deadline and announce something else, iirc
19:24:57 <gaudenz> What about extending to 19th (Sunday)?
19:25:02 <gaudenz> Would this help?
19:25:23 <gaudenz> the current deadline is on Wednesday
19:25:34 <h01ger> bargaining for the deadline.
19:25:51 <h01ger> can we afford to extend it a week?
19:26:00 <h01ger> should we invite developers?
19:26:05 <h01ger> should we invite developers with families? ;p
19:26:25 <XTaran> h01ger: ?
19:26:54 <gaudenz> Extending by a week just means longer uncertainity. And we won't meet the end of may date for decisions then.
19:27:10 <gaudenz> (room allocation decisions, not travel sponsorship)
19:27:27 <gaudenz> (and maybe sponsored food and accomodation)
19:27:34 <h01ger> XTaran, i just think this is hillarious and i would love to provide space for DDs, friends and families, as this was invisioned once...
19:27:47 <h01ger> and gaudenz is right: extending it means extending uncertainity
19:27:55 <h01ger> so 19 or 15?
19:28:06 <XTaran> Yeah, he's right.
19:28:11 <h01ger> can we do a quick vote / opinion poll?
19:28:18 <h01ger> should we?
19:28:23 <XTaran> Nevertheless I think the registration period is quite short.
19:28:28 <gaudenz> yeah why not
19:28:33 <XTaran> +sponsored
19:28:43 <XTaran> Sunday is better than midweek IMHO
19:28:52 <h01ger> so 19, 15 or any other number but we will most probably ignore you ;)
19:28:55 * h01ger says 19
19:29:02 <cate> 19
19:29:03 <XTaran> 19
19:29:09 * gaudenz says 15, but 19 is ok
19:29:30 <Y_Plentyn> 76
19:29:36 <XTaran> Y_Plentyn: :)
19:29:39 <h01ger> Y_Plentyn, bingo! you win!
19:29:48 <XTaran> I though would announce the extension only shortly before the end of the initial deadline.
19:29:50 <nattie> 42!
19:29:57 <h01ger> XTaran, no, i wouldnt
19:30:00 <h01ger> nattie, too late
19:30:00 <nattie> 19 makes sense, 22 doesn't
19:30:03 <gaudenz> #agreed We extend the sponsored registration deadline to Sunday 19th May.
19:30:09 <h01ger> XTaran, "play open"
19:30:22 <gaudenz> So who is going to send the reminder and announce the new date?
19:30:25 <h01ger> rather announce it now but ask people to apply now too
19:30:36 * gaudenz agrees with h01ger on this.
19:30:45 <gaudenz> keeping this a secret does not help anyone.
19:30:53 <cate> I think we already have the template for such announce
19:30:57 <nattie> as ever, i am available to proofread before stuff goes out
19:31:04 <XTaran> gaudenz: I wouldn't be sure there, but I don't mind much
19:31:16 <nattie> (that is to say, HELLO, send me stuff to read!)
19:31:19 <h01ger> XTaran, can you send it out now?
19:31:32 <h01ger> (and let nattie proofread it first)
19:31:37 <XTaran> h01ger: What?
19:31:38 <nattie> :)
19:31:49 <gaudenz> cate: If you have a template, can you draft the mail?
19:32:00 <h01ger> XTaran, that
19:32:04 <h01ger> ;-p
19:32:05 <XTaran> h01ger: ?
19:32:12 <h01ger> send that mail
19:32:14 <gaudenz> I'm mostly away from tomorrow afternoon until Sunday.
19:32:20 <XTaran> h01ger: I'm already in my jacket and will leave RSN and won't be online for 1,5 days
19:32:22 <h01ger> to d-d-a and dc13.blog.planet.d.o
19:32:37 <h01ger> actually i think thursday wouzld be fine
19:32:44 <h01ger> but earlier better
19:32:49 <h01ger> cate?
19:32:50 <nattie> it doesn't matter who sends it.  gaudenz is available for slightly longer, so he can send it, provided he lets me read it first
19:32:57 <h01ger> anybody, really..
19:33:04 <cate> what?
19:33:11 <h01ger> that
19:33:17 <gaudenz> nattie: ok, I'll try to draft something tomorrow morning.
19:33:24 <h01ger> \o/
19:33:33 <gaudenz> #action gaudenz to draft the announcement about the registration deadline
19:33:37 <gaudenz> #endmeeting