17:59:37 <nattie> #startmeeting
17:59:37 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue Jul 16 17:59:37 2013 UTC.  The chair is nattie. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:59:37 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
17:59:53 <nattie> #topic team roundtable
18:00:06 * h01ger bows to nattie
18:00:11 <nattie> #topic team roundtable - Finance and Sponsorship status
18:00:26 <hug> only on mobile. so i'm a bit slow.
18:00:29 <rafw> Sponsorship is stable at CHF 161k.
18:00:30 <cate> hug, rafw ^^
18:01:01 <rafw> All sponsors invoiced. Last sponsors paying last bills.
18:01:07 <hug> invoices for accom/food for 70k sent
18:01:14 <hug> 40k already paid
18:01:33 <hug> which is more than planned
18:01:49 <gaudenz> hi
18:01:51 <hug> and the volunteet budget is also not used up yet
18:02:08 <cate> hug: planed the tototal or that people paid so early?
18:02:21 <hug> actually both
18:02:38 <cate> :-)
18:02:52 <nattie> anything more for sponsorship?
18:03:03 <hug> this means we currently have a big surplus.
18:03:04 <rafw> nattie: not yet.
18:03:07 <nattie> #topic team roundtable - Registration
18:03:15 <cate> We have https://penta.debconf.org/stats/only-reconfirmed/registration-data.txt
18:03:20 <gaudenz> hug: how much surplus do we have?
18:03:22 <hug> one volunteer costs us around chf 600
18:03:35 <h01ger> we also have late coming sponsorship requests, eg one video team member, who did lots of work in last years
18:03:46 <h01ger> (will give name via /msg on request)
18:03:50 <hug> if we don't calculate the volunteers we have 30k
18:03:51 <cate> Mails are comming to registration@. We have few beds free
18:04:26 <XTaran> cate: Isn't that a problem if we get more volunteers?
18:04:31 <gaudenz> cate: we still have quite some communal accomodation, don't we?
18:04:37 <hug> questions?
18:04:38 <nattie> we're offering upgrades, and people generally seem to be either "yes, please!" or "actually, can i bring my tent?"
18:04:41 <gaudenz> hug: 30k surplus that is, right?
18:04:46 <cate> XTaran: on communal accomodation no
18:04:51 <XTaran> cate: Ah, good.
18:05:06 <hug> yes, if we don't add more sponsored people.
18:05:07 <cate> DebCamp: the communal accomodation is nearly empty
18:05:24 <h01ger> cate, so its single rooms after all? ;)
18:05:39 * h01ger hides a bit
18:05:55 * nattie spots h01ger because of his hair
18:06:02 <cate> h01ger: not rally, but less people than some other rooms ;-)
18:06:03 <nattie> anything else for registration for the moment?
18:06:18 <gwolf> Should DebCamp be more prominently promoted?
18:06:32 <XTaran> cate: So the communal accomodation is the new single room? ;-)
18:06:36 <gwolf> If we will end up with a mostly-empty DebCamp, it will become an expensive set of days
18:06:43 <h01ger> nattie, pfft
18:06:44 <gwolf> (then again, it's quite late to do travel plans)
18:06:45 <nattie> folks, stay focused, please
18:06:49 <cate> I think we have 40 people in DC
18:07:03 <cate> https://penta.debconf.org/stats/only-reconfirmed/rooms-by-date-2.txt
18:07:04 <gwolf> cate: Do you remember +- how many of them are orga?
18:07:15 <gaudenz> cate: just an idea, I'd like to offer a free night from friday to saturday for those volunteers that can help with talk room setup. How much space do we have?
18:07:29 <h01ger> only, cool. so the fears of DC going overboard have not become true..
18:07:43 <cate> h01ger: to many campers!
18:07:50 * h01ger likes gaudenz idea
18:07:53 <gaudenz> Because I fear a bit that we don't have enough people to help on saturday to setup everything.
18:08:10 <gaudenz> because people arriving on saturday will mostly arrive too late.
18:08:17 <nattie> gaudenz: is that something penta has to deal with, or more in the realm of front desk?
18:08:18 <cate> gaudenz: for me it is ok
18:08:40 <nattie> if we're offering people free nights, do we just adjust their dates manually, i mean?
18:08:47 <gaudenz> It's more that we have to fit these people into debcamp accommodation as we don't have the full le camp for that night.
18:09:08 <gaudenz> nattie: I think that's the way to do it technically in penta.
18:09:17 <h01ger> can we agree we generally want to do this and leave the details for after/outside the meeting?!
18:09:20 <nattie> what kind of numbers are we talking, anyway?  10, 20?
18:09:29 <nattie> fair enough
18:09:31 <h01ger> <10 i guess, rather 5
18:09:36 <nattie> last call for registration questions
18:09:45 <gaudenz> I'd be surprised by more than 10, certainly not more than 20.
18:10:05 <cate> we can have 30-40 people more
18:10:09 <nattie> #topic team roundtable - talks
18:10:10 <h01ger> #agreed offer a free night from friday to saturday for those volunteers that can help with setup.
18:10:28 <h01ger> (not sure if my #agreed worked. nattie,please do "#save" so we can check...)
18:10:33 <nattie> #save
18:10:37 <h01ger> thx
18:10:54 <nattie> #agreed offer a free night from friday to saturday for those volunteers that can help with setup.
18:11:00 <nattie> i'll put it in for good measure
18:11:05 <nattie> right.  talks.  tiago?
18:11:10 <h01ger> #info #agreed offer a free night from friday to saturday for those volunteers that can help with setup.
18:11:12 <cate> talks: https://penta.debconf.org/stats/dc13-talks-data.txt
18:11:25 * gwolf has been mostly missing (well, after all, I *did* say I would be on VAC... And you know, network access in Canada is not as good as at home ;-) )
18:11:32 <gwolf> but tiago has put up a *LOT* of work in this regard
18:11:41 <gwolf> (and pressured me during my brief connection times)
18:11:44 <tiago> not much to say about talks, everything is ok
18:11:49 <gwolf> ...So there is a published pre-schedule
18:11:53 <gwolf> oh, there he is :)
18:11:58 * h01ger cheers tiago - indeed, happy to see a schedule a month in advance. wh00t.
18:12:11 <nattie> we see, we appreciate!  yay
18:12:18 <cate> tiago just sent a preliminary program to speakers
18:12:19 <gwolf> tiago: Did you get Ganneff to publish the non-authenticated scheudle which was b0rken?
18:12:22 <tiago> Ganneff has setup the static html pages auto-generating....
18:12:29 <gwolf> perfect!
18:12:56 <tiago> https://penta.debconf.org/penta/schedule/dc13
18:13:03 <nattie> three cheers for tiago's hard work!  anything else for talks?
18:13:14 <tiago> ah
18:13:17 <tiago> we need an announcement
18:13:18 <gaudenz> tiago: is that ready to be linked from the website?
18:13:21 <tiago> blog post?
18:13:26 <gaudenz> Or would you prefer to wait a bit?
18:13:39 <nattie> aren't there a few last-minute tweaks going on?
18:13:44 <tiago> gaudenz, i'll ping you in the right time
18:13:53 <tiago> we're doing last adjustments based in requests
18:13:56 <tiago> a few
18:14:00 <nattie> #agreed schedule will be announced shortly
18:14:07 <tiago> one or two days we have it ready to be announced
18:14:08 <nattie> #info preliminary schedule is already up
18:14:17 <tiago> that's all i think
18:14:18 <nattie> last call for talks
18:14:19 <nattie> cool
18:14:26 <nattie> #topic team roundtable - network
18:14:28 <XTaran> Less from the network and more from our local server infrastructure during DC13
18:14:31 <XTaran> TK won't sponsor hardware this year, and they told one of us 4 months after the request while the recipient was on holidays. So we actually noticed it just last week...
18:14:39 <nattie> #topic team roundtable - network and servers
18:15:03 <XTaran> Luckily our ($WORK) local hardware supplier offered us two big servers for DC13.
18:15:23 <XTaran> I'll add them to the infrastructure sponsors on the website after the meeting.
18:15:36 <XTaran> Work on network will continue afterwards. :)
18:16:05 <nattie> any other news?
18:16:10 <XTaran> Details how we use them will be discussed by h01ger and me in the week before DebCamp
18:16:14 <XTaran> nattie: Nope. That's it for today.
18:16:18 <nattie> thanks :)
18:16:23 <nattie> #topic team roundtable - video
18:16:38 * h01ger thanks XTaran for all his work
18:16:56 <h01ger> as he said, we will meet before debcamp and prepare and discuss stuff in person
18:17:11 <h01ger> video team still planing for 2 rooms.
18:17:20 <h01ger> no further news. next, please
18:17:25 <gaudenz> I reserved the two audiosystems Le Camp has, both are with XLR, one has a mixer, the other has portable microphones, so audio should be good for 2 rooms too.
18:17:30 <nattie> #info two rooms with video
18:17:37 <h01ger> cool, thanks, gaudenz!
18:17:51 <nattie> #info sound will also be good in these rooms
18:17:55 <gaudenz> I also reserved their two projectors, so we have projectors for the talk rooms, 2 more would be cool for the bof rooms.
18:18:28 <nattie> ok.  is that all?
18:18:29 <h01ger> neato
18:18:46 <h01ger> gaudenz, else ask on debconf-discuss@ for people to bring projectors?
18:19:06 <nattie> #topic team roundtable - bar
18:19:10 <heiserhorn> I sent an update on the list today
18:19:15 <nattie> any news on the bar?
18:19:20 <nattie> heiserhorn: *nods* saw it
18:19:27 <heiserhorn> I think we need an announcement for volounteers
18:19:39 <nattie> #info heiserhorn sent an update about the bar to the -team list
18:19:40 <heiserhorn> for the moment we are only 4 ppl
18:19:47 <nattie> #info more bar volunteers are needed
18:19:48 <h01ger> heiserhorn, combine this with the inventory/price announcement next week?
18:19:49 <gaudenz> heiserhorn: yes now that camping is sorted this is next on my todo list.
18:20:08 <h01ger> (the call for volunteers)
18:20:11 <heiserhorn> h01ger: yes that is my idea
18:20:15 <gaudenz> h01ger: yes
18:20:16 <h01ger> :)
18:20:24 <nattie> #agreed call for bar volunteers to be combined with inventory/price announcement
18:20:25 <heiserhorn> and set up a wiki page to subscribe
18:20:35 <nattie> #save
18:20:46 <gaudenz> heiserhorn: I'd prefer to look for volunteers for all areas, not just the bar.
18:20:58 <gaudenz> I'd avoid that different teams compete for volunteers.
18:21:15 <nattie> gaudenz: oh, i'm sure various teams will put out announcements, and people can choose as they wish
18:21:22 <heiserhorn> gaudenz: fine for me, we will need a coordinated call
18:21:28 <gaudenz> We also need volunteers for evening dishwashing, front-desk, talkmeister, ..
18:21:47 <nattie> it won't hurt to mention it in the announcement that volunteers are needed
18:21:57 <nattie> anything else for the bar?
18:21:59 <gaudenz> nattie: If possible I'd like to avoid exactly that.
18:22:08 <heiserhorn> nattie: nope
18:22:09 <nattie> ok
18:22:14 <nattie> #topic debian day
18:22:15 <h01ger> voluneets for all areas is better indeed. this video team also still needs helping hands... (will still do an extra call for those hands, but there should be a notion that any volunteer can+should help everywhere where needed)
18:22:19 <rafw> I suggested to cancel debian day because I have no time to allocate to this project. Also I think that debian day is different for gaudenz h01ger or me. I am not sure we talk about the same think.
18:22:57 <gismo> FWIW after private discussions I share rafw's opinion
18:23:10 * h01ger thinks we must not let this opportunity pass. which means: somehow combinding debianday, party + 20th birthday
18:23:25 <moray_> I already said I agreed with cancelling a separate Debian Day.
18:23:28 <h01ger> rafw, gismo: can you explain reasons?
18:23:41 <rafw> we could do a big party in Le Camp and invit people.
18:23:42 <moray_> On the other hand, I have said for a long time I think we should try to combine something with the birthday.
18:23:54 <rafw> h01ger: sure
18:23:55 <gismo> h01ger: Debian Day, as far as I witnessed them, is not the Debian Day we are organizing
18:24:12 <h01ger> rafw, yeah. and call that and some talks "debian day"
18:24:15 <gwolf> The ocassion is very good, but we must focus it quite differently from "historic" DebianDays
18:24:20 <h01ger> <rafw> we could do a big party in Le Camp and invit people.
18:24:25 <gwolf> as they have never been a huge success (and that'd be an overstatement)
18:24:37 <gwolf> A DebParty would be very nice to have
18:24:56 <gismo> moray_: we actually discussed that in the last F2F meeting
18:25:01 <nattie> gwolf: what, you claim that a giant roomful of RS officials isn't a huge success?! ;)
18:25:02 <h01ger> <gismo> h01ger: Debian Day, as far as I witnessed them, is not the Debian Day we are organizing   - häh? you ment: is not the day you want to organize? i'd agree with that, we shoudl do things differently
18:25:15 * gaudenz prefers the party at le camp over a debian day somewhere else with our current resources.
18:25:17 <cate> h01ger: is it possible to organize a party connected to other debian parties?
18:25:22 <nattie> so do we agree that we are changing the format of debian day?
18:25:24 <gismo> h01ger: no, it is not what I would call "Debian Day as part of DebConf"
18:25:43 <rafw> well, first we targeted general people, second we have been told to target IT professional. Now, I suggested to cancel the event in Neuchâtel.
18:25:57 <gismo> h01ger: then, effectively, I am no interest in organizing a party (and I stated that in the last F2F meeting, and there is already another team for that)
18:26:18 <gismo> h01ger: s/I am no/I have no/ ;-)
18:26:40 * h01ger thinks of "a trick" if you want to call it that: select some "better talks" and/or ones better suited for a broad audience (during a day) _and_ have a party. _label_ both, together as "debianday celebrating debians 20th birthday" (plus party)
18:26:53 <hug> I'd prefer to keep debian day (if held) separate from a party.
18:27:00 <h01ger> tl;dr;: put party + talks for everyone  under _one label_
18:27:03 <moray_> h01ger: yes
18:27:04 <cate> h01ger: yes, I think we need also to invite SI people to talks
18:27:05 <hug> and let rafw organize a great party :-)
18:27:16 <moray_> h01ger: also in this case it is not a problem if we don't get many additional people coming to it
18:27:27 * gaudenz is not sure if we should put even more load on rafw
18:27:28 <moray_> h01ger: whereas a separate debian day can be a big waste of effort
18:27:28 * h01ger thinks we should really mostly let other people organize the party, so that we can focus on all the rest. better for us and the party :)
18:27:29 <gismo> JFTR: are we sure we can organize *public* events in LeCamp?
18:27:41 <rafw> hug: :)
18:27:44 <nattie> so, just before i put this in - we are planning to cancel the even in neuchatel, and putting talks and a celebration on as "debian day" at le camp?
18:27:49 <XTaran> cate: "SI"?
18:27:51 <h01ger> well, it could all be on friday the 16th IMO
18:28:04 <h01ger> or party on friday, public talks on saturday, due to weekend
18:28:07 <gismo> nattie: yes
18:28:14 <cate> XTaran: one sponsor, AFAI understood from previous discussion. Not sure how it spells
18:28:27 <XTaran> cate: Ah, ok
18:28:48 <nattie> #agreed the proposed "debian day" even in neuchatel is cancelled
18:29:02 <nattie> #agreed a new proposal for debian day is to combine talks and a celebration at le camp
18:29:05 <gaudenz> XTaran: schweizerische informatik gesellschaft www.s-i.ch
18:29:06 <nattie> good?
18:29:07 <h01ger> moray_, yes, we need to make a plan which will also work if only 10-20 external people come - which i think is on the realistic lower end, with the realistic high end maybe being 42 extra people
18:29:22 <XTaran> gaudenz: Ah, like GI in Germany. :)
18:29:25 <h01ger> nattie, looks right to me :)
18:29:33 <nattie> anything else about debian day for the moment?
18:29:37 <h01ger> yes
18:29:42 <nattie> ok, proceed
18:29:51 <h01ger> 16 or 17th
18:29:58 <nattie> the actual birthday is 16th
18:29:59 * gaudenz fears that the party will also not magically happen, who is interested in helping organize the party?
18:30:04 <h01ger> the official birthday is the 16th, but that doesnt mean we have to celebrate on that day
18:30:07 <nattie> i think the 17th will be stressful as that's the last day
18:30:20 <h01ger> we could easily move the offfical party to the 17th, hoping for more external people
18:30:22 * gaudenz prefers the friday for the party
18:30:29 <hug> I think madduck was interested in organizing it.
18:30:34 <gwolf> h01ger: if party is on friday, people that stay for the party won't come on Saturday
18:30:35 <nattie> h01ger: after the closing ceremony?
18:30:36 <moray_> yeah, 16th sounds better than 17th I think
18:30:37 <gaudenz> I think friday evening is fine for external people.
18:30:38 * XTaran prefers Friday evening, too.
18:30:41 * cate too. I would also help organizing the party
18:30:45 <h01ger> gaudenz, as said: i think we should ask for party organizers on -discuss and -project
18:30:50 <heiserhorn> I prefere friday. is less close to the end of dc13
18:30:52 <nattie> i also prefer friday evening
18:30:55 <moray_> I think we will get party volunteers a lot more easily than dishwashing ones :)
18:30:56 <gwolf> h01ger: IMO the party should close the public-minded talks if at all
18:31:03 * XTaran thinks more people would come on Friday evening, thinking of it as "Usgang"
18:31:06 <h01ger> friday evening is fine for external people for party
18:31:11 <h01ger> but for attending takls in the day?
18:31:12 <gwolf> But I'm not sure if a set of talks is... really interesting for $world
18:31:26 <gaudenz> depending on what kind of party we want, we have to organize this before debconf.
18:31:38 <moray_> h01ger: as you said, we shouldn't expect/plan for a huge number.  Friday is better for some people anyway
18:31:45 <gaudenz> and if we want external people, we have to advertize it soon.
18:31:56 <moray_> (even for the day I mean: some people are busy with family commitments on a Saturday, etc.)
18:32:01 <rafw> Shall we invite our sponsors as well ?
18:32:19 <XTaran> gaudenz: We should at least announce it on community@l.d.c
18:32:26 <h01ger> gwolf, i believe the systemd talk is interesting for quite some people. freedombox too. blah.
18:32:28 <hug> rafw: I think this depends on the event.
18:32:41 <gaudenz> rafw: good idea (inviting sponsors)
18:32:51 <gwolf> h01ger: Yes. Blah. But that's not DebianDay-like
18:32:54 <nattie> i prefer friday strongly - by saturday evening we'll be busy thinking about teardown
18:33:07 <gwolf> those are DebConf talks by people outside the project
18:33:08 <hug> rafw: would you organize the party?
18:33:20 <XTaran> h01ger: systemd could end in a mud battle. ;-)
18:33:23 <gwolf> Also... I don't like the idea of telling tiago, "nice schedule, now redo it from scratch"
18:33:29 <rafw> nope, i cannot, Must focus on daytrip.
18:33:32 <XTaran> h01ger: freedombox is definitely a very good target
18:33:39 <rafw> +1
18:33:47 <h01ger> gwolf, /me cries. really, i'm so saddened by your (plural) lack of immagination esp. about changing debianday for the better... lets just say it makes me wanna cry
18:34:02 <gwolf> h01ger: I have long advocated disappearing DebianDay
18:34:09 <gaudenz> h01ger: would you help me organizing the party?
18:34:12 <gwolf> h01ger: I see it as a time sink
18:34:19 <h01ger> gwolf, yeah. that saddens me
18:34:21 <gwolf> A party is due and am sure that can be important
18:34:28 <gwolf> But I would not tie it to a set of talks
18:34:37 <gwolf> and even less on the *next* day
18:34:41 <gaudenz> party = party plus talks if we want, how exactly would be up to us.
18:34:52 <gwolf> If at all... I'd put some nice, general-minded talks on the evening before the party
18:35:03 <h01ger> gaudenz, yes, i would send a mail to -discuss and -project and ask for people to do it as i'm too busy to play a key role in that. and i'd happily do stuff *at* the party.
18:35:08 <moray_> gwolf: I thought that was what was suggested above.
18:35:13 <nattie> should we maybe hold off on this for a moment, discuss more out of the meeting, and bring the results to the next meeting?
18:35:24 <gwolf> moray_: what was suggested as I read was to have the party on Friday and the talks on Saturday
18:35:24 <rafw> Friday afternoon talks, then eat something and party!
18:35:26 <tiago> I wouldn't touch the debconf talks schedule ....
18:35:29 <h01ger> gwolf, i think the idea is to have these "debianday"like talks on friday, not saturday
18:35:40 <moray_> gwolf: I didn't understand that anyone wanted that.
18:35:43 <h01ger> so people can come early to the party and get some talks
18:35:50 <gwolf> h01ger: ok, that's a bit better, so I read wrong the Saturday thing
18:35:55 * gaudenz is not sure if organizing this completely outside of debconf-team will not end in more work for us in the end.
18:36:03 <h01ger> though there is dinner in between, which probably then should open to outside people
18:36:06 <gwolf> But anyway, please listen to tiago
18:36:11 <nattie> gaudenz: outsourcing organisation is a bad idea.
18:36:35 <gwolf> I don't think it's fair to change their work so deeply after they put so much time in it
18:36:38 <nattie> at least in certain instances
18:37:01 <gwolf> *and* there are some time constraints (i.e. h01ger says about the systemd talk -  The author will only be some days with us)
18:37:02 <tiago> we can even have a full room schedule on friday for debian day, and ask Debian people to add NEW talks, not to move the current ones
18:37:03 <gaudenz> nattie: isn't that what I said?
18:37:09 <cate> gaudenz: IIRC on the first meeting of local team, there was a huge interest organizing parties ;-)
18:37:26 <nattie> gaudenz: i was just agreeing with you
18:37:37 <gaudenz> cate: I'm completely fine if less active people in the local team organize the party.
18:37:56 <tiago> BoF room 1 is completely free on friday
18:38:13 <gaudenz> I just think that looking for the main organizers on debconf-discuss won't work as expected.
18:38:20 <cate> gaudenz: so let one week to find extra volunteers for party (and a first program) ot be discussed next week
18:38:25 <tiago> (sorry, on satuday, or friday afternoon)
18:38:38 <gwolf> Anyway... /me goes for lunch
18:38:42 <gwolf> o/
18:38:45 <moray_> I don't think talks are strictly necessary for a Debian Day, but at least one or two generic ones would be nice
18:38:50 <gwolf> sorry to leave the meeting midway through:(
18:39:09 <nattie> there's already a community outreach track talk on friday late afternoon
18:39:11 <tiago> gwolf, arepas!
18:39:19 <gaudenz> I propose we find someone interested in working on this and delegate the task how to do party/debianday exactly.
18:39:24 <nattie> yes
18:39:27 <gaudenz> I'm willing to help, but not alone.
18:39:32 <nattie> hopefully there will be more to report next week
18:39:32 <gwolf> tiago: nah, that requires me to go 3000Km further South :)
18:39:37 <nattie> any more comments before i change the topic?
18:40:14 <cate> nattie: next topic
18:40:15 <tiago> nattie, anything decided about debian day?
18:40:39 <h01ger> gaudenz, debconf-discuss is not where the main organizers hang out. these are on debconf-team. -discuss is this place for everybody.
18:40:41 <tiago> gwolf, ah, what a great vacation
18:40:49 <nattie> tiago: er...  tbd.  i'll wait out more details at the next meeting
18:41:10 <gaudenz> nattie: can you summarize what we agree upon (=party on friday, maybe talks)
18:41:11 <h01ger> gaudenz, oh, you probably ment "main party organizers"... (not "main organizers"...)
18:41:30 <gwolf> :) o/
18:41:31 <gaudenz> h01ger: exactly
18:41:31 <tiago> could we decide about touching or not schedule?
18:41:40 <nattie> #agreed debian day will be held friday 16 august, with a party in the evening possibly preceded by some talks
18:41:43 <nattie> right
18:41:48 <nattie> #topic banners
18:41:51 <gaudenz> tiago: how bad would it be to change the schedule from your pov?
18:41:54 <nattie> who's dealing with banners?
18:41:55 <tiago> I'm still working on it and can't keep working if it risks to be changed
18:42:01 <XTaran> nattie: OdyX IIRC
18:42:18 <XTaran> nattie: Or wait, what kind of banners?
18:42:19 <nattie> XTaran: OdyX's not here, man
18:42:20 <cate> how many banners do we need?
18:42:25 <gaudenz> tiago: we can discuss that after the meeting.
18:42:30 <nattie> we don't need many.  two at most?
18:42:37 <nattie> no, three
18:42:38 <tiago> gaudenz, too bad, it's a lof of work, too many variable, requests etc etc, each change implies in many changes
18:42:39 <rafw> nattie: more i think
18:42:46 <tiago> gaudenz, ok
18:42:49 <XTaran> nattie: For the talk stages?
18:42:50 <gaudenz> I propose to skip banners
18:42:58 <moray_> we promised them to sponsors, surely?
18:42:59 * h01ger notes we havent discussed about the dinner constraints on the 16th, but i guess thats fine for next week when some more people have realized ;-p
18:43:07 <nattie> ok, one at le camp entrance, one at fd, one at each of the stages?
18:43:20 <moray_> the stages are the only ones that matter
18:43:27 <XTaran> moray_: +1
18:43:34 <moray_> others aren't really that helpful/necessary, unless we now promised those too
18:43:36 <nattie> ok, we're fluctuating between 2 and 4
18:43:37 <rafw> gaudenz: +1
18:43:46 <cate> on the other places, a generic Debian flags is enought
18:43:49 <nattie> ok.  two are absolutely necessary
18:43:50 <nattie> yeah
18:43:57 <moray_> cate: well, the whole site is Debian anyway
18:44:00 <XTaran> cate: OdyX is caring about flags.
18:44:10 <XTaran> nattie: We have flags for visibility from the outside.
18:44:13 <XTaran> +will
18:44:22 <rafw> e)Logo on banner in conference lobby (G/P)
18:44:56 <rafw> so minimum is 4 banners (2 talks room + 2 in conferenc lobby)
18:45:15 <XTaran> nattie: So forget the thing about banners and OdyX. I mixed it up with the flags he plans to order or has ordered
18:45:16 <gaudenz> rafw: why 2 for the lobby?
18:45:16 <cate> DO we have a conference lobby?
18:45:29 <nattie> i didn't realise we had one
18:45:35 <gaudenz> cate: not really, but we can just define that the server room is the conference lobby ;-)
18:45:40 <XTaran> cate: Maybe "vielle poste"?
18:45:45 <nattie> hey, front desk likes banners
18:46:20 <cate> nattie: you get only the piraten flags of h01ger
18:46:33 <cate> next topic?
18:46:43 <gaudenz> I propose to have 3 banners, 1 for each talk room and 1 in a central location (like front desk, or outside in the middle of le camp.
18:46:46 <rafw> gaudenz: I think we should put a few banners arround as described in our sponsorship brochure. One is ok.
18:47:10 <cate> rafw: banners or posters?
18:47:13 <XTaran> Front desk would be good for a banner, yes.
18:47:14 <gaudenz> nattie: can you info or agreed 3 banners?
18:47:27 <nattie> #agreed we will have 3 banners
18:47:44 <rafw> cate: banner.
18:48:11 <nattie> anything else about banners?  small details should be discussed outside and summarised next week
18:48:16 <h01ger> we also have one nice wheezy banner from the events team (but we surely need dc13 banners too)
18:48:30 <XTaran> nattie: We don't have someone ordering them yet, right?
18:48:33 <h01ger> next please
18:48:38 <h01ger> XTaran, seems right, bah
18:48:42 <nattie> i thought we said that was OdyX
18:48:49 <moray_> I'm sure we'll have the regular "Debian" banner etc. brought too
18:48:54 <nattie> he's not here today, we can volunteer him ;)
18:48:55 <XTaran> nattie: Sorry, my fault. I mixed it up with flags
18:48:59 <nattie> ok
18:49:00 <gismo> h01ger: two wheezy/inksplat if don brings his
18:49:03 <h01ger> moray_, but we need ones with dc13+logos
18:49:03 <nattie> #topic daytrip
18:49:18 <h01ger> gismo, did you ask him? for optics it would be great :)
18:49:19 <gismo> moray_: the Events team has two of them and Debian France 3 more IIRC
18:49:21 <moray_> h01ger: yes, as above we need the ones we promised to sponsors.  but not lots of extra ones printed for dc13
18:49:32 <gismo> h01ger: I asked nothing, but I can do
18:49:49 <rafw> Daytrip is on his way. I have send a first program to the list.
18:49:55 <h01ger> moray_, <bikeshedding>if we need to print anyway, we can as well add the dc13 logo and not just the sponsors logos</bs>
18:50:04 <h01ger> gismo, please do + thanks
18:50:05 <gismo> cate: is don coming?
18:50:06 <rafw> I will work tomorrow on it, probably full day.
18:50:08 <nattie> hello?  i've changed the topic
18:50:19 <h01ger> rafw, do you need input from that mail?
18:50:28 <h01ger> i seem to recall you do and it was urgent..
18:50:30 <cate> gismo: it seems no
18:50:41 <rafw> yes, can you confirm that it is what you want ?
18:50:45 <moray_> h01ger: I can bikeshed more back, but I don't think we're disagreeing on anything
18:50:48 <hug> rafw: do you need additional money than what's in the budget now?
18:50:53 <h01ger> kids, please keep nattie a happy chair and stay on topic
18:51:04 <gaudenz> h01ger: ++2
18:51:19 <rafw> hug: i think it will be fine as long as we don't eat on the boat.
18:51:24 * h01ger looks up rafws mail about daytrip
18:51:34 <h01ger> or shall we move on, everything clear(ed) about daytrip?
18:51:51 <gaudenz> rafw: If we need some more money I think we have it, as said earlier.
18:52:12 <nattie> anything more for daytrip that can't wait until next week?
18:52:13 * gaudenz thinks that the daytrip idea is fine
18:52:19 <h01ger> next topic then?
18:52:26 <nattie> cool - we'll have some more details next time
18:52:27 <moray_> I'd agree with the previous post that more options makes things difficult, but I also don't want to try to interfere as I'm sure a good solution can be found
18:52:31 * h01ger would like to close in 7m, its summer and still nice outside
18:52:32 <rafw> ok will carry on that way.
18:52:35 <nattie> #topic dishwashing and cleaning
18:52:43 <nattie> question one: are the contracts signed?
18:53:18 <rafw> yes and no: We have signed a contract with 3 employees for dishwashing.
18:53:19 <gaudenz> afaik the dishwashing contract is signed.
18:53:20 <h01ger> anything we need to discuss here or is all clean and tidy and on its way and we can move on?
18:53:32 <rafw> not for the cleaning company.
18:53:45 <nattie> #info dishwashing contract is signed: 3 employees
18:53:46 <h01ger> whats holding back cleaning?
18:53:49 <gaudenz> h01ger: I think we should at least delegate the question about the cleaning frequency to rafw.
18:53:52 <nattie> #info cleaning contract is not yet signed
18:54:09 <nattie> ok, next week we can catch up about cleaning
18:54:16 <rafw> h01ger: There will be not contract.
18:54:19 <moray_> for the details, I (still) advocate discussing them with the company
18:54:26 <rafw> sure
18:54:26 <nattie> #topic t-shirts
18:54:30 <moray_> who probably know more about how much can be done in the time than we do :)
18:54:38 <nattie> sorry, folks - have to do this...  zügig
18:54:41 <h01ger> so whats holding back cleaning? whats left to do there? just define the frequency? (and this decision doesnt involve costs?)
18:54:57 <nattie> who's doing t-shirts?  i have a feeling it's OdyX which means we don't have an update
18:55:02 <h01ger> nattie, its fine if we do up to 30m overtime ;) though better if not
18:55:19 <moray_> t-shirt numbers were sent off
18:55:20 * h01ger believes t-shirt order has been sent and moray should know more/better
18:55:25 <gaudenz> moray_: if I'm not mistaken that's exactly the point, they told us that doing everything with 3 persons every day is not possible.
18:55:34 <moray_> I discussed them with odyx and they were received by our favourite printer
18:55:43 <nattie> #info t-shirts have been ordered
18:55:49 <nattie> have we paid already?
18:55:50 <gaudenz> hug: did you receive the t-shirt invoice and is it already paid?
18:55:51 <moray_> so, unless there were more messages I haven't seen, things are on track
18:55:53 <rafw> h01ger: I just need to finaly email that company. I also need from you the confimation that 3 person for 3 hours per day is not enough to celean everything.
18:55:56 <hug> nattie: t-shirts ordered and I paid them from my account because postfinance doesn't support mxn pesos
18:55:57 <h01ger> as thirts are fine+being_done should we go back to cleaning after shirts?
18:56:04 <nattie> hug: thank you :)
18:56:16 <nattie> #info t-shirts have been paid for
18:56:17 <gaudenz> hug thanks, so t-shirts on their way!
18:56:23 <h01ger> #topic cleaning
18:56:41 <nattie> h01ger: can we return to that under AOB please?
18:56:44 <h01ger> +thanks hug, OdyX + moray for tshirts
18:56:51 <h01ger> nattie, sure, you chair, you rule!
18:56:59 <gaudenz> h01ger: I don't think we need to discuss cleaning anymore as long as we trust rafw to do the right ting.
18:57:04 <nattie> #agreed hug to be reimbursed for paying t-shirts from his own account
18:57:06 * h01ger just tries to help
18:57:21 <gaudenz> nattie: I think we can move the FAQ to next week.
18:57:25 <hug> nattie: already reimbursed myself :-)
18:57:29 <XTaran> h01ger: Why doesn't frequency involve the costs?
18:57:32 <nattie> hug: schnell ;)
18:57:33 <nattie> ok
18:57:47 <nattie> #topic participant info / faq
18:57:51 <h01ger> lets discuss frequecy+cleaning under AOB as nattie says...
18:57:59 <nattie> #agreed postponing FAQ to next week
18:58:10 <nattie> #topic ideas for spending more money
18:58:21 <nattie> #topic ideas for spending extra  money
18:58:23 <nattie> sorry
18:58:44 <hug> we drop bar profit to make drinks more affordable
18:58:45 <gaudenz> I propose that we order the full meal for 1/2 of the time and that le camp will provide us with an "average"
18:58:48 <nattie> the proposals are lunch, reducing bar profit, and shuttled to/from neuchatel and yverdon on arrival and departure dates
18:58:51 * h01ger thinks the topic is silly
18:59:00 <gaudenz> As discussed during our visit there and like I explained on list.
18:59:01 <h01ger> "other useful stuff" is a fine topic
18:59:10 <rafw> gaudenz: +1
18:59:15 <rafw> h01ger: i aggree
18:59:35 <nattie> right.  i think that, too, can be discussed next time
18:59:42 <nattie> after out-of-meeting discussion
18:59:47 <nattie> #topic AOB
18:59:49 <h01ger> and i also think we shouldnt do busses
18:59:54 <gaudenz> We have to inform le camp a bit in advance, but next week is still ok
18:59:54 <nattie> h01ger: now you can let loose on cleaning
18:59:57 <moray_> h01ger: not even magic ones?
19:00:00 <h01ger> so AOB as in cleaning
19:00:01 <cate> We need to choose the badges soon IMHO
19:00:05 <gaudenz> h01ger: I agree about the buses
19:00:06 <hug> yes, nothing is urgent. except maybr debian part budget
19:00:09 <h01ger> moray_, i knew you could bikeshed! :)
19:00:11 <cate> [especially if we don't find in CH]
19:00:36 <h01ger> i'm fine to let rafw discuss the frequency if that stays within the known and agreed costs
19:00:45 <h01ger> then, its yay and EOT for me :)
19:00:51 <gaudenz> and the bar team needs to know if they have to make 5k surplus to do their calculations
19:00:58 <h01ger> though i have to admit i dont know if thats the case
19:00:59 <nattie> #agreed let rafw discuss the frequency if that stays within the known and agreed costs
19:01:02 <gaudenz> Anyone disagrees with not making any profit on the bar?
19:01:02 <moray_> I would like rafw to discuss with the company, yes
19:01:09 <moray_> not just to discuss within the team
19:01:20 <nattie> i think that's all stuff that can be summarised next week once it's been discussed and implemented
19:01:25 <gaudenz> moray_: This is something that come form the company.
19:01:27 <nattie> does anyone else have anything new to say?
19:01:30 <cate> gaudenz: no, I think bar should make small profit
19:01:35 <h01ger> gaudenz, can you please remove the double negation from taht question?
19:01:37 <hug> gaudenz: I think we should not require a surplus from the bar team.
19:01:38 <cate> or we are doing only for Le Camp
19:01:53 * gaudenz agrees with hug
19:01:53 <moray_> gaudenz: ok, good, it wasn't clear above if they were in the conversation
19:01:56 <h01ger> "everybody agrees we make profit at the bar"?! -> no, then i ask profit for whom
19:02:11 <heiserhorn> i'll do calculation with no profit then
19:02:15 <gaudenz> h01ger: ?
19:02:19 <moray_> trying to make a profit sounds like it will lead to arguments
19:02:30 <nattie> don't we have to share the bar profit?
19:02:41 <h01ger> gaudenz, "profit" for us is a good idea, while profit for us is stupid, like is too much profit for le camp
19:02:43 <heiserhorn> well we have to pay lecamp
19:02:44 <XTaran> nattie: IIRC we do have.
19:02:45 <hug> and we need to allocate some money for the Debian birthday party
19:02:53 <h01ger> i know we cannot make profit, so i said "profit"
19:03:14 <hug> otherwise it'll be difficult to find someone to organize it.
19:03:17 <gaudenz> the price we pay to le camp is fixed per item (see heiserhorn mail)
19:03:25 <nattie> i think we should keep drinks affordable, but that's just me
19:03:26 <h01ger> (ie by making the beer prices 2.7 CHF and informally asking people to donate the 0.3 CHF change to debian etc)
19:03:42 <cate> like the US taxes ;-)
19:03:43 <heiserhorn> gaudenz: not for food (is 30% of gains)
19:03:44 <h01ger> gaudenz, so what was your question about profit?
19:03:44 <XTaran> h01ger: Thanks for the explanation
19:03:50 <cate> h01ger: +1
19:03:55 <nattie> h01ger: like a "tip jar"?
19:04:06 <gaudenz> h01ger: to remove the 5k income from bar profit from the debconf budget
19:04:08 <h01ger> nattie, yes.
19:04:22 <gaudenz> so that the bar can have lower prices because it does not have to contribute to the overall budget.
19:04:24 <h01ger> gaudenz, why would we want to do that? is income bad?
19:04:29 <h01ger> ah
19:04:40 <hug> h01ger: yes income is bad
19:04:43 <hug> '-)
19:04:58 <nattie> anything else?
19:05:01 <h01ger> i think we should differate: less profit for non-alcoholic drinks eg
19:05:05 <gaudenz> and another point is that if we have a surplus we won't get the money from the canton .ne
19:05:07 <hug> we need to pay taxes on it if we have too much of it.
19:05:08 <nattie> i'd like to close relatively on time
19:05:13 <moray_> (if they are donating change, can we make that a donation independent of the debconf budget...?)
19:05:26 <h01ger> and if we have the budget, i dont think we need the bar to crossfinance debconf
19:05:31 <gaudenz> moray_: yes I think we should
19:05:36 <rafw> gaudenz: this is not what I discussed with them.
19:05:42 <h01ger> if there is a small surplus its always good to donate + keep money
19:05:43 <XTaran> h01ger: +1
19:05:43 <gaudenz> h01ger: so we agree ;-)
19:05:51 <hug> h01ger: exactly
19:05:52 <gaudenz> nattie: can you agreed that ?
19:05:57 <heiserhorn> I will propose prices with no gain (except what we have to give to LeCamp) and prices with gain
19:06:05 <nattie> gaudenz: let me formulate correctly first
19:06:14 <h01ger> +make soda more expensive then juice (=rather add profit there then with juice ;)
19:06:24 * h01ger happily leaves those details to the bar crew
19:06:34 <nattie> so, we're agreeing to keep profits as low as possible?
19:06:47 <moray_> "mark up" perhaps
19:06:50 <h01ger> i woudlnt say "as low as possible" but rather "low" or "not high"
19:06:59 <nattie> #agreed keep bar mark-up and income from bar low
19:07:16 <h01ger> we could also say: put profit in the "debconf newbee jar" for next year
19:07:24 <h01ger> which i'd personally like very much
19:07:29 <h01ger> to increase that jar
19:07:52 <hug> about newbies: what should we do about the newbies budget?
19:07:59 <h01ger> anyhow, details.
19:08:11 <h01ger> hug, not just collect "profit" but "money for dc14 newbees initiative"
19:08:16 * nattie reminds everyone that "AOB"!=free-fore-all
19:08:29 <h01ger> so ask for endmeeting or any other business?
19:08:33 <hug> don't use it this year or use it for GSoC student accomodation
19:08:49 <h01ger> hug, _if_ we have the money this year :)
19:09:01 <nattie> are we done?
19:09:23 <rafw> yep
19:09:26 * nattie takes the 5 seconds' silence as "yes"
19:09:27 <nattie> right
19:09:31 <nattie> thanks, folks
19:09:34 <nattie> #endmeeting