18:58:56 <vorlon> #startmeeting
18:58:56 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue Jul 29 18:58:56 2014 UTC.  The chair is vorlon. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:58:56 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:59:24 <vorlon> cate: did you want to co-chair?  I think our agreement was that you would set the agenda and I would run it :)
18:59:57 <vorlon> #chair cate harmoney
18:59:57 <MeetBot> Current chairs: cate harmoney vorlon
19:00:03 <vorlon> #topic Roll Call
19:00:15 * gturner here
19:00:16 * madduck cannot follow but watches for highlights
19:00:18 <cate> hello
19:00:19 * nattie waves
19:00:20 <rmayorga> hi
19:00:22 <tmancill> here
19:00:26 * gwolf waves
19:00:26 <edrz> hello
19:00:30 <tassia> hi there
19:00:32 <Tincho> Hi! Just want to say that I might disappear for a few minutes during the meeting, as I am waiting to be seen by a doctor right now :)
19:00:36 <vorlon> here
19:00:45 * azeem_ here
19:00:51 <bremner> here
19:01:09 <gwolf> Tincho: I just hope it's not *the* doctor that makes you disappear.
19:01:15 <harmoney> Kinda here
19:01:19 <Tincho> :-b
19:01:38 <vorlon> cool, good turnout today, thanks everyone for coming :)
19:01:40 <CarlFK> here here
19:01:45 * _rene_ here, too
19:01:55 <formorer> more or less here
19:02:12 <vorlon> #topic Team and Tasks: status and updates - Local (PSU, C&W, daytrip)
19:02:30 <tiago> hi
19:02:50 <vorlon> so cate noted in the agenda that we have had a discussion about changing our rooms
19:02:55 <vorlon> #link http://lists.debconf.org/lurker/message/20140725.065046.8abb69ca.en.html
19:03:03 <vorlon> there was no pushback on the list, so I've made this request to PSU
19:03:11 <vorlon> haven't heard back yet, so I need to chase them on this
19:04:05 <vorlon> anyway, we'll probably have the ballroom for the plenaries, which means moving cables & equipment - hopefully not too onerous
19:04:08 <cate> Did you book rooms for sponsored people? Do you know if there are many empty rooms?
19:04:33 <vorlon> cate: they have a whole second building for overflow; we haven't even bothered to check room availability
19:04:56 <cate> ok. few people asked to registration@
19:05:20 <vorlon> cate: I think the capacity of the first dorm is somewhere between 300 and 400, *our* bigger problem was instead to make sure we could get some rooms in the overflow building if we didn't fill the first to capacity because it's the second building that has family-suitable suites
19:05:30 <CarlFK> "Carl on IRC seemed to think this was ok, but we would need to be sure we had the manpower to make this happen. "  -- I think what is OK has drifted...
19:05:40 <azeem_> did somebody ask on the video team list about moving rooms around?
19:05:43 <vorlon> CarlFK: drifted how?
19:06:02 <edrz> azeem_: no.
19:06:05 <vorlon> CarlFK: I asked directly whether it was ok to have to move the video setup from one room to another
19:06:15 <CarlFK> ballroom for the plenaries is fine.  but setting up during plenary is not
19:07:03 <CarlFK> I would want talk rooms 1,2,3 (327,8,9) setup the day before
19:07:17 <vorlon> CarlFK: the day before what?
19:07:29 <CarlFK> before they are in use, which I think is Sat?
19:07:43 <vorlon> they're only in use starting from the 24t
19:07:46 <vorlon> h
19:07:47 <rmayorga> also on last day CarlFK
19:08:07 <cate> #save
19:08:10 <h01ger> tach
19:08:10 <vorlon> CarlFK: so on Saturday, we only have plenary sessions scheduled; talk tracks start on Sunday
19:08:34 <vorlon> CarlFK: (Sunday afternoon, at that)
19:09:01 <vorlon> CarlFK: if more time than this is needed for setup, we can push things around - just let me know what's actually needed
19:09:28 <CarlFK> vorlon: ah, in that case I think we are fine
19:09:30 <rmayorga> and last day, we have talks until closing(before dinner), sunday morning is free for setup thought
19:09:49 <edrz> vorlon: in your mail, you mentioned that 327,8,9 could be available saturday afternoon for settup?
19:10:04 <vorlon> right - and again, the building will be open in the evening of the last regular-talk-day and we can move equipment after dinner if that's preferred
19:10:09 <vorlon> edrz: yes
19:10:23 <cate> vorlon: 4 hours to set up a room for plenary are enough?
19:10:25 <vorlon> I've budgeted for a 4-hour window for the setup in each room the day before it will be used
19:10:30 <cate> h01ger: 4 hours to set up a room for plenary are enough?
19:10:47 <CarlFK> 4 hours to set up a room for anything is enough
19:11:01 <vorlon> cate: 4 hours the night before, plus all morning the next day if needed, plus the university staff is responsible for things like chaisr
19:11:03 <azeem_> will the plenaris include Q&A? If not, maybe only one camera needs to be setup
19:11:04 <vorlon> chairs and podium
19:11:06 <azeem_> and things are simpler
19:11:40 <h01ger> cate: cough
19:12:01 <vorlon> ok, is the video team happy with this topic now? :)
19:12:11 <vorlon> again, if this doesn't work, please just tell me what does
19:12:11 <CarlFK> vorlon: I think so
19:12:14 <vorlon> ok
19:12:36 <vorlon> next bit on the agenda... details about the PuppetLabs C&W party CoC requirements
19:12:38 <rmayorga> azeem_: it might be
19:12:39 <vorlon> so there was a mail thread, which is good
19:13:04 <vorlon> however, there seemed to be several different ideas running around about what information we would provide to PL and how
19:13:12 <gturner> nothing new since the response from Christy Snow @ PL on the 17th in that she agreed that both ours and their CoC's were in sync
19:13:23 <vorlon> it seems one of the ideas was that we would send them a full list of our registered attendees, name & email
19:13:37 <vorlon> I suspect this would make some of our attendees unhappy, though I have no problem with it personally
19:13:49 <vorlon> so we should probably straighten this out so we can move forward with them
19:13:55 <nattie> wouldn't names suffice, with emails on file with us?
19:14:43 <gturner> nattie: probably so, but PL had been talking about names and emails all along, i could check with them
19:14:48 <gwolf> vorlon: I suspect *many* people will strongly prefer not handing over emails
19:14:54 <gwolf> gturner: please do check
19:15:14 <vorlon> my own thinking had been: add a sign-up ticky box on summit; send an email pointing people to it for sign up ~2 days before the event; make it clear to everyone that their attendance will be subject to the CoC, and that their information will be shared with PL
19:15:19 <nattie> gturner: that would be kind.  i think a lot of people will object less if it's only names and not mails
19:15:53 <vorlon> gturner: ok - please check if names alone is sufficient; I think my above strawman works whether we give them just names, or names and emails.  Do you agree?
19:15:59 <gturner> okay so if they want more than just names, we'll go with vorlon's plan?
19:16:17 <broonie> Giving people a temporary forwarding address might help if they object.
19:16:23 <gwolf> gturner: If they want mails, please ask them what for, and what can we expect to receive from them :)
19:16:37 <gturner> gwolf: got it
19:16:39 <vorlon> broonie: requires informed consent on the part of the attendee, to update their registration data before we send it :)
19:16:51 <rmayorga> you need to specify which data
19:17:52 <rmayorga> I'll not be happy sharing my email, and I guess if you will put a thickbox «We will share information» you need to be very clear on what
19:18:00 <vorlon> gturner: given the reasons for wanting registration in the first place (capacity planning/RSVP, accountability to the CoC), I think demanding an explicit ack from attendees in summit is still better
19:18:23 <vorlon> gturner: but if you're not convinced, I'll let you do what you think is best - but please at least find out from PL if the emails are needed
19:18:44 <azeem_> demanding an ack is a good idea I think, but trying not having to send them mail addresses would be good as well
19:19:16 <gwolf> azeem_: not just "good as well", but actually much better
19:19:29 <vorlon> gturner: are you ok with this?
19:19:31 <gturner> vorlon: sure i agree, do both the strawman and figure out if names-only (and more reliable headcount) is okay with PL
19:19:34 <vorlon> ok
19:19:50 <vorlon> #action gturner to check with PL whether emails are needed for C&W attendees
19:19:57 <vorlon> gturner: thanks
19:20:12 <vorlon> gturner: should I also give you the action to implement the summit registration ticky-box? :-)
19:20:23 <gturner> vorlon: absolutely
19:20:57 <nattie> that can probably be taken as read :)
19:21:02 <vorlon> #action gturner to implement C&W party registration in Summit (with acknowledgement of CoC and any data sharing)
19:21:07 <vorlon> awesome
19:21:10 <vorlon> next!
19:21:29 <rmayorga> for local team
19:21:33 <vorlon> are there any other concerns for the local team?
19:21:40 <vorlon> (per current #topic)
19:21:53 <rmayorga> yes, please update the descriptions on summit
19:22:01 <vorlon> descriptions of what?
19:22:02 <cate> a local meeting tomorrow, nothing else
19:22:07 <vorlon> local meeting today
19:22:13 <vorlon> it was tomorrow yesterday; now it's today
19:22:16 <rmayorga> there are events submitted
19:22:22 <harmoney> I need a volunteer to make a wiki page for the day trip.
19:22:33 <harmoney> I need to know who would like to go on a hike vs who would like to just get on a bus and see Pretty Things.
19:22:54 <harmoney> And it'd be nice if said volunteer could also manage said wiki page.
19:22:54 <vorlon> harmoney: you needed to confirm the limit on the hike first
19:23:12 <harmoney> Fair enough. I'll talk to the hike leader's boss.
19:23:22 <vorlon> #action harmoney to confirm how many people can go on the day trip hike
19:24:05 <cate> #save
19:24:08 <vorlon> harmoney: can we just give the wiki management to Brian or Kirsten?
19:24:18 <vorlon> rather than mincing these delegations too finely
19:24:46 <vorlon> rmayorga: so I still don't understand what it is you're asking for updated descriptions of
19:24:46 <edrz> harmoney: and also length, vertical change, etc ...
19:25:10 <harmoney> edrz: It's going to be a vigorous hike. It's one that I wouldn't go on.
19:25:16 <rmayorga> vorlon: for the events: https://summit.debconf.org/debconf14/meeting/56/conference-dinner/
19:25:20 <CarlFK> (I need to run, looks like I am not needed for remaining items)  bye all
19:25:21 <harmoney> vorlon: I would like that, if they're willing.
19:25:41 <vorlon> harmoney: let's start wit that assumption, then :)
19:25:52 <edrz> harmoney: would need to be noted for many to decide.
19:26:02 <vorlon> rmayorga: that's one event.  What other events, specifically, do you need descriptions for?
19:26:18 <rmayorga> vorlon: most of the social and regular events
19:26:20 <broonie> vorlon: Depends what you consider sharing; I'd be concerned about sharing their own address but a proxy address is... different.
19:26:39 <rmayorga> https://summit.debconf.org/debconf14/meeting/34/cheese-and-wine-party/
19:26:39 <broonie> Although possibly also concerning for people depending on what happens with it.
19:26:46 <vorlon> broonie: yes, point is that if we shared, we'd be sharing what's already in the database
19:27:27 <broonie> vorlon: Right, I was suggesting a workaround if there was insistence on getting emails.
19:27:34 <vorlon> #action vorlon to get local team to flesh out descriptions for https://summit.debconf.org/debconf14/meeting/56/conference-dinner/ https://summit.debconf.org/debconf14/meeting/34/cheese-and-wine-party/ https://summit.debconf.org/debconf14/meeting/35/daytrip/
19:27:46 <vorlon> broonie: oh, you're suggesting *we* set up proxy addresses - gotcha
19:28:24 <vorlon> rmayorga: does that cover things?  those are the ones I know of that are the local team's domain
19:28:46 <rmayorga> so far, yes
19:28:47 <vorlon> ok
19:29:21 <vorlon> #topic Team and Tasks: status and updates - Talks, Schedulers
19:29:33 <vorlon> we have the list of approved talks
19:29:43 <cate> tiago, rmayorga
19:29:46 <vorlon> and we have the time slots all arranged, hopefully in a final configuration :)
19:30:08 <gwolf> vorlon: .... "in a shape we expect to be close to what ends up happening"
19:30:19 <vorlon> fair enough
19:30:22 <gwolf> (final often can just be determined after the fact it has happened)
19:30:22 <rmayorga> we have something sorted out already
19:30:24 <vorlon> ETA on publishing the schedule?
19:30:35 <gwolf> It's in a quasi-publishable status now
19:30:39 * edrz has scripts to do the monkey work of entering into summit.
19:30:40 <vorlon> I know some people are asking, so they can make sure they're present for things they care about
19:30:49 * rmayorga hugs edrz
19:30:51 <gwolf> we were checking whether it had conflicts or similar issues
19:30:58 <vorlon> (e.g., there was a question on #debconf today from one of our sponsors)
19:31:02 <edrz> .oO(nothing against monkeys)
19:31:30 <rmayorga> we are planing to contact the speakers
19:32:17 <edrz> minor annoyance wrt publishing in summit, plenaries are treated specially. worst case we don't use that concept for summit purposes.
19:32:19 <rmayorga> then wait check final details
19:32:25 <edrz> only affect 6 events, afaik.
19:33:09 <cate> #info schedule is in a quasi-publishable status now
19:33:15 <rmayorga> yes, in worst scenario we called something else
19:33:23 <rmayorga> edrz: did you try the same for lunch breaks ?
19:33:35 <rmayorga> on test summit we 3 lunchs per day :)
19:33:38 <vorlon> rmayorga: so, when will this contact happen, how long are you waiting for final details, and when will the schedule be published?
19:33:47 <edrz> rmayorga: i made all meals "Lunch" in summit and display them as "Meal"
19:34:11 <rmayorga> vorlon: not fixed dates, but we are trying to finish this week or early next week
19:34:18 <edrz> or, will make once the scripts are run in production.
19:34:43 <tiago> rmayorga is talkmeister, I'm just giving some small random help
19:34:56 <Tincho> we will be sending out emails to speakers soonish, I think, and then solve any possible conflicts
19:35:17 <edrz> rmayorga: what you see is only the time slot in admin, not what attendees will see on the public views.
19:35:34 <rmayorga> edrz, great
19:35:59 <vorlon> rmayorga: this week would certainly be better :)
19:36:15 <vorlon> #action talks scheduling team to publish schedule this week or early next week
19:36:45 <vorlon> Tincho, rmayorga: what conflicts are you concerned about?  do we expect that people's registration dates are inaccurate?
19:37:06 <rmayorga> actually we expect they are accurate
19:37:35 <vorlon> oh; in that case, how could there be conflicts ;)
19:37:46 <Tincho> vorlon: mistakes happen
19:37:52 <edrz> plans change
19:37:59 <cate> they should be nearly accurate, but we see some changes every day about arrival and departure
19:38:09 <rmayorga> really
19:38:18 <rmayorga> hm, maybe it be worthy to check
19:38:21 <cate> but if people know the date of a talk, they really try harder to come that day
19:38:42 <vorlon> ok
19:38:43 <Tincho> anyway, no need to worry. we give them one or two days to complain, and then we publish
19:39:04 <edrz> "final" status won't be know until it's all over. there will always be a few adjustments to make.
19:39:04 <vorlon> any other concerns from the scheduling side, then?  Seems like it's under control :)
19:39:30 <gwolf> And the fact that first and last days have only plenaries help most people not be bitten by changing travel plans :)
19:39:51 <edrz> we're 40 minutes in ...
19:40:19 <Tincho> vorlon: no, I think we have it under control
19:40:33 <vorlon> #topic Team and Tasks: status and updates - Video
19:40:40 <vorlon> we talked about room configs already
19:40:42 <edrz> there will be a meeting next week
19:40:45 * vorlon nods
19:40:48 <vorlon> great to see
19:40:49 <Tincho> vorlon: and we would not be swapping plenary slots between 24 and 31 in the end
19:40:49 <cate> video will have a meeting next week, so I think no further news until then
19:41:08 <edrz> right. and CarlFK and holger are not here. i have nothing to say
19:41:10 <edrz> move on.
19:41:57 <vorlon> ok :)
19:42:08 <vorlon> #topic Team and Tasks: status and updates - Sponsor and finance
19:42:26 <vorlon> not sure there's anything that needs to be said here
19:42:33 <cate> On last year this was the moemnt to see what to cancel. But it doesn't seems the case this year
19:42:42 <cate> do we have money for conference dinner?
19:42:42 <vorlon> thanks to madduck, we now have proper books: git+ssh://git.debian.org/git/debconf-team/dc14-accounting-data
19:42:49 <madduck> they are not yet complete
19:42:56 <vorlon> right
19:43:05 <madduck> please ask before relying on a number
19:43:06 <vorlon> cate: yes, we've been fully funded for months
19:43:25 <cate> ah.. and I added sponsor because of deadlines
19:43:45 <cate> I think top sponsor are fixed now because of t-shirts
19:43:55 <vorlon> yes
19:44:02 <vorlon> I can't imagine we would have any late top sponsors
19:44:28 <gwolf> ...and if we did, we could promise space on DC15's shirt or whatever
19:44:38 <madduck>19:44:43 <vorlon> anyway, sponsorship team should be focused on getting invoices paid here, not soliciting new sponsors
19:44:56 <madduck> gwolf: if we see the money for it ;)
19:44:57 <azeem_> we can promise gwolf gets their logo tattoed
19:45:12 <vorlon> most sponsors have paid up timely, but we still have $24k in receivables
19:45:27 <gwolf> azeem_: there's so much you can promise... I have not yet seen a logo I'd like to wear on my forehead.
19:45:56 <vorlon> #topic Team and Tasks: status and updates - Registration, Front Desk, bursaries
19:46:03 <vorlon> reg/fd first :)
19:46:06 <vorlon> nattie, cate?
19:46:24 <cate> we have 247 attendees now. one new every few days
19:46:35 <vorlon> 247 reconfirmed?
19:46:45 <cate> yes
19:46:56 <cate> people are asking about room preferences
19:47:09 <cate> otherwise normal administration
19:47:40 <vorlon> I believe I've landed gturner's changes; did that give you the interface you need to set roommates?
19:47:47 <cate> n0rman is tracking all mail we missed
19:48:41 <cate> vorlon: we have some discussion about the procedure. We should collect data and give to PSU? or we should do a preliminary plan?
19:49:03 <vorlon> cate: can you please put it in summit, and I'll export it to PSU?
19:49:06 <gturner> oh, forgot that last week nattie wanted help editing a roommate or two, it can now be done in summit, nattie should probably do that now (i forgot about the specific changes requested)
19:49:12 <cate> [but we cannot do it because we don't know non sponsored people, and roommates many time are of two categories]
19:49:35 <cate> vorlon: ok
19:49:47 <vorlon> cate: if someone wants to be involved in pairing up people who have not specified a roommate preference, let me know who and I'll loop them in.  But for anyone stating a roommate preference, just capture it to the DB please
19:49:52 <Tincho> so roomie preference will be put into summit?
19:49:57 <vorlon> yes
19:50:46 <gturner> Tincho: it already was present (for the registrant) but now it can be updated by FD
19:51:16 <Tincho> gturner: yes, but not at reconfirmation time, afaik
19:51:28 <vorlon> correct
19:51:33 <gturner> oh
19:51:42 <Tincho> which is the moment when one is starting to make concrete plans :)
19:52:17 <vorlon> #info Front Desk can record roommate preferences in Summit, email registration@
19:52:38 <vorlon> other FD issues?
19:52:45 <azeem_> I think this should be communicated to the attendees
19:52:57 <cate> no. nattie, n0rman, harmoney?
19:53:02 <harmoney> nope
19:53:06 <nattie> nothing to my knowledge
19:53:06 <Tincho> azeem_: +1
19:53:11 <vorlon> I agree with azeem_.  Someone on FD want to send out an announce mail?
19:53:32 <cate> only to sponsored people, right?
19:53:34 <harmoney> Yes. Nattie, there was something else we were going to do with FD, wasn't there?
19:53:37 <harmoney> Oh! Food preferences!
19:53:39 <cate> or in announce@ ?
19:53:49 <harmoney> cate: Sponsored people, I would think.
19:53:49 <azeem_> (or if a mail to everybody is queued up already, just add their current roommate or lack thereof in it, and mention it can be changed via mail to FD)
19:54:14 <gturner> cate, harmoney: the field is linked to Sponsorships
19:54:17 <nattie> ah, yes.  we were going to draft a mail to those who said "other", to please actually contact us with the nature of the "other"
19:55:16 <vorlon> someone taking an #action here, or should I trust the FD to self-organize?
19:55:37 <vorlon> cate: I think it's easiest to send mail to -announce
19:55:58 <vorlon> cate: if it's "only to sponsored people", then I know you'll wind up doing it yourself :)
19:56:24 <cate> 13 people have "other" in food preferences
19:57:01 * tmancill has to leave work mtg - see the local tonight
19:57:14 <nattie> cate: you draft, i proofread?
19:57:21 <cate> vorlon: I check tomorrow if to send a personalized mail or a announce
19:57:26 <cate> nattie: ok
19:57:32 <nattie> teamwork!
19:57:50 <vorlon> #action cate to follow up on communicating to sponsored attendees about roommate preferences and "other" diet requirements
19:57:55 <vorlon> cate, nattie: thanks
19:58:16 <vorlon> the agenda also says "t-shirt status, banners"
19:58:45 <vorlon> I think banners are well in hand; tmancill, harmoney, and maddogpdx have been coordinating
19:59:00 <vorlon> t-shirts are... delayed.
19:59:06 <vorlon> but harmoney is working on it.
19:59:08 <cate> as always
19:59:14 <cate> [the delay
19:59:18 <vorlon> no, not as always
19:59:46 <vorlon> but it is what it is; we'll get the shirts one way or another
20:00:07 <vorlon> we also needed to get a bag count to our bag printer
20:00:41 <vorlon> I told harmoney to use "whatever number of people we estimated for tshirts, plus the number of sponsors rounded up"
20:01:01 <cate> we send a t-shirt also to sponsors
20:01:04 <vorlon> I know how many tshirts we're ordering, I don't know how many people were in that estimate
20:01:21 <cate> we can check with moray_
20:01:24 <vorlon> there are fudge factors, and I don't know what they are - who knows this, moray_?
20:01:27 <vorlon> ok
20:01:53 <vorlon> #action moray_ to tell harmoney how many attendees are assumed by the tshirt numbers, to use for finalizing bag order
20:02:04 <vorlon> we'll just action him directly :)
20:02:11 <moray_> Fudge factors but maybe we can sell spare anyway
20:02:31 <cate> #save
20:02:49 <vorlon> moray_: sell spare bags?
20:02:57 <moray_> Sure
20:03:07 <vorlon> ok
20:03:11 <vorlon> either way, harmoney needs a number
20:03:16 <cate> I remember giving them to hospitality
20:03:27 <vorlon> and I don't want to be giving her numbers based on different models than were used for the tshirts
20:03:29 <cate> but not selling. Anyway money are money
20:03:33 <vorlon> so I consider this moray's problem now :)
20:03:40 <nattie> spares are generally a good idea - there are always last-minute signups, and people *like* buying the extras for souvenirs
20:03:43 <nattie> IME
20:04:12 <vorlon> next on the agenda
20:04:16 <vorlon> *child care, special needs
20:04:21 <harmoney> moray_: The number I have quoted is 368.
20:04:28 <vorlon> harmoney: do not give him a number
20:04:31 <vorlon> harmoney: he is to give you a number
20:04:48 <cate> next subtopic: special need could be handled by FD, but the child care. we need a delegate or we don't find a solution to the long disucssions
20:04:54 <moray_> I can check when not on from a phone :)
20:05:37 <vorlon> last I saw, the child care discussion wound up in a bikeshed
20:05:56 <vorlon> bikes are good for entertaining children, but they should come out of the shed
20:05:58 <cate> people want it, but ...
20:06:12 <vorlon> madduck: you may be the only one here with a relevant opinion?
20:06:22 <harmoney> Childcare - it's self-organizing and I can help them get a room at University Place (that they will have to find a way to pay for together), but the University cannot provide a room for childcare.
20:06:35 <azeem_> FWIW, we're still(heh) discussing how to do it for DC15 as well
20:06:49 <cate> harmoney: how they should comunicate? private mailing list?
20:06:49 <vorlon> not sure what "provide a room for childcare" means anyway; I thought we were going to send them all to the rec center :)
20:06:52 <madduck> vorlon: well, i won't bring ours
20:06:59 <vorlon> madduck: well, ok then
20:07:04 <madduck> but there's a huge range of things you can do
20:07:05 <gwolf> vorlon: rec center, federal prision, same thing...
20:07:07 <harmoney> University Place can provide day care assistance, but at a cost.
20:07:12 <madduck> it's really a budget question, i.e. how much can you afford?
20:07:18 <azeem_> vorlon: was the discussion on-list?
20:07:27 <harmoney> for communicating, that's up to them - it's self-organizing. All I can do is help them negotiate the room.
20:07:33 <cate> azeem_: long away, and recently on IRC
20:07:34 <vorlon> someone should contact the people who said they were interested, and sort out the communication
20:07:37 <madduck> from none via self-organised with a room, to self-organised with one permanent care-taker in a room, to completely outsourced
20:07:37 * bremner sneaks out of the meeting...
20:07:42 <vorlon> harmoney: it's not self-organizing if we fail at putting them in touch with each other
20:07:55 <madduck> whatever happened to that mailing list?
20:07:57 <vorlon> because people decided to bikeshed privacy questions, instead of just making a mailing list available
20:07:58 <azeem_> is insurance an issue?
20:08:27 <vorlon> azeem_: I don't believe so
20:08:31 <vorlon> not for self-organized care
20:08:34 <azeem_> formorer: are you coming as a family?
20:10:06 <vorlon> so there are at most 11 people reconfirmed who said "yes" on child care
20:10:19 <vorlon> one of whom is a GSoC student so I think that's a misprint
20:10:47 <madduck> they need a list, we need an idea of any budget we might have, and it would be really useful in any case to organise one or two rooms (two better for sleeping), some toys and some mattresses
20:10:52 <vorlon> bug #720996
20:11:01 <vorlon> madduck: we were not providing any budget for this
20:11:19 <madduck> well, then they need a list and that's it.
20:11:32 <madduck> assuming rooms cost money
20:11:40 <cate> vorlon: I have 12 people in child_care
20:12:02 * olasd raises an eyebrow
20:12:09 <cate> hmm
20:12:12 <vorlon> cate: not all of those are reconfirmed
20:12:16 <cate> 12 peoplke requiring child_care
20:12:30 <cate> vorlon: you should check only attend
20:12:37 <vorlon> ok
20:12:41 <vorlon> so, 12
20:12:45 <vorlon> what do we do with them?
20:12:55 <cate> The non reconfirmed people have been unchecked as attendee. Some new people did set reconfirm
20:13:03 <azeem_> it's roughly 10
20:13:14 <cate> I propose a private mailign list and tel them to subscribe
20:13:24 <vorlon> who's setting up the mailing list?
20:13:25 <cate> and then they will self-organize
20:13:36 <vorlon> http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-kids
20:13:43 <vorlon> does not exist
20:13:46 <cate> vorlon: list managers have no problem to set it up (according the IRC)
20:13:50 <madduck> Ganneff: ^
20:13:57 <vorlon> new lists are supposed to be lists.debian.org
20:14:01 <madduck> it should live on lists.debian.org anyway
20:14:02 <madduck> yeah
20:14:28 <cate> no, not Ganneff, but IIRC formorer or an other list manager in this channel
20:14:48 <cate> I'll check. Is it ok to ask them to do a private mailign list without archive?
20:15:11 <vorlon> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=720996 was closed by madduck
20:15:18 <vorlon> madduck: wtf
20:15:31 <vorlon> madduck: I think that means you get this action item
20:15:57 <cate> azeem_ zobel  ^^
20:16:25 <azeem_> cate: ?
20:16:36 <cate> are you a list master?
20:16:54 <formorer> cate: yes please?
20:17:03 <madduck> vorlon: i thought it was reoppened
20:17:10 <vorlon> madduck: apparently not
20:17:22 <cate> madduck: no, until we decided exactly the options
20:17:38 <madduck> formorer unarchived it but then didn't follow up… or left it to someone else
20:17:52 <madduck> cate: private; unarchived. What's so hard about that?
20:18:03 <madduck> cate: sorry, not trying to snipe at yo.
20:18:11 <formorer> I made a bunch of proposals here. and I still think my initial proposal in the bug makes sense
20:18:22 <cate> madduck: bike sheding. On discussion there was always pother proposals
20:18:39 <vorlon> ok, who can take the action to drive this to a conclusion and get in touch with those people who expressed interest in summit?
20:18:39 <formorer> (speaking as listmaster and parent)
20:18:58 <cate> but I think we finally agree. We can sort out the burocracy of mailing list now
20:19:16 <cate> vorlon: please make an agree before womebody complain!
20:19:17 <azeem_> let
20:19:24 <azeem_> 's just go with https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=720996#65 ?
20:19:33 <vorlon> cate: what are we #agreeing?
20:19:54 <cate> unarchived private mailing list for child care
20:20:33 <vorlon> #agree unarchived, private mailing list needed for self-organizing debconf child care
20:20:56 <vorlon> cate: but who's following up on this? :)  I want to #action someone so we can finish the agenda :)
20:20:59 <formorer> eh no.
20:21:08 <azeem_> formorer's proposal was a general public, archived discussion list, and a private specific names-on-the-ground list
20:21:11 <azeem_> makes sense to me
20:21:12 <madduck> formorer: just subscribe now and make your own archive, please.
20:21:13 <vorlon> oh, ffs
20:21:20 <formorer> madduck: no.
20:21:31 <formorer> I won't create just a private list.
20:21:43 <madduck> you may have a conflict of interest here
20:21:44 <vorlon> either someone takes an action, or you can argue this to death after we finish the rest of the agenda :)
20:21:45 <cate> we failed again
20:22:01 <formorer> that doesn't make any sense. there is nothing secret in discussion about child care unless a specific child is involved.
20:22:24 <madduck> vorlon: just send a message to all participants and ask them to send mails because we fail to make a list for them.
20:22:33 <harmoney> I agree with formorer.
20:22:37 <madduck> i do not
20:22:37 <vorlon> madduck: that's an action; I'm not taking that action
20:22:39 <cate> formorer: but self-organizing, so place and time where children will be moved during DC14, etc.
20:22:47 <azeem_> madduck: AFAICT, you're the only one insisting on the private list?
20:22:52 <vorlon> madduck: someone else gets to send the mail asking them to send mails
20:23:03 <madduck> azeem_: no, there are others.
20:23:10 <edrz> this meeting has gone on for 82 minutes. this is an important topic, but there are still more items on the agenda.
20:23:27 <vorlon> regardless, this discussion is tabled - either someone takes the action to drive it, or they don't and leave people in limbo, but we're moving on
20:23:27 <formorer> there is a bug, use it for discussion.
20:23:32 <madduck> vorlon: where can I get their contact emails?
20:23:36 <cate> edrz: no, it is practically the last item in discussion
20:23:43 <vorlon> madduck: from cate or me, if you take the action :)
20:23:56 <edrz> cate: i still see network, web, summit
20:24:01 <madduck> i will send them a mail with a big To: list telling them that we failed to make a list.
20:24:04 <edrz> upcoming deadlines
20:24:07 <edrz> and next meeting.
20:24:15 <vorlon> #action madduck to contact those expressing interest in child care so they can self-organize
20:24:19 <harmoney> madduck: I seem to find that a little misleading.
20:24:22 <vorlon> #topic Team and Tasks: status and updates - Networks, web, summit
20:24:31 <harmoney> madduck: Considering it sounds like to me there has been consensus and you have objected to it.
20:24:39 <vorlon> harmoney: tabled.
20:25:12 <vorlon> past actions: - edrz to change summit to hide the schedule for non-talks-team members - this is done, thanks edrz
20:25:19 <vorlon> cate to work with Ganneff to have stats.debconf.org up by July 21
20:25:23 <vorlon> cate: did this get done?
20:25:25 <edrz> done and easy to undo once schedule is load in
20:25:30 <madduck> harmoney: there has never been consensus, not that I know. There was consensus initially to create the private, unarchived list. Anyway, it's done now and I will act accordingly, unless we have another solution in place beforehand.
20:25:36 <vorlon> and gturner's FD TODOs were already discussed, thanks gturner
20:25:38 <cate> I sent the mail to admin@ but not answer
20:25:56 <cate> But then I think I should speak with you. Using directly summit could be simpler
20:26:03 <edrz> madduck: harmoney please wait till after meeting?
20:26:23 <madduck> formorer: please make a public archived list. I will then tell the people they can use it, or write direct mails if they prefer to maintain privacy.
20:26:24 <cate> OTOH many people have access to database and we give data quickly to who ask
20:26:27 <madduck> edrz: I am done.
20:26:36 <edrz> kthx.
20:26:40 <vorlon> cate: I'm happy to discuss, but I expect to have no time for any summit development between now and the conference
20:26:44 <vorlon> cate: fyi :)
20:26:51 * gwolf quietly whispers: Sorry to go, but I'm leaving
20:26:52 <gwolf> o/
20:27:06 <vorlon> gwolf: thanks, later :)
20:27:13 <cate> vorlon: no problem.
20:27:21 <gwolf> vorlon: thanks now and beforehand :)
20:27:45 <edrz> vorlon: so, my only concern here is that afaik you are also the only one who can deploy changes to the live site.
20:28:01 <edrz> and you may became too busy to respond in a timely way.
20:28:20 <vorlon> edrz: I am not; cate certainly also has access
20:28:36 <edrz> ok.
20:28:42 <cate> vorlon: no I have no access
20:28:44 <vorlon> edrz: but if that's still too much SPOF, I would nominate gturner to become a backup dba
20:28:55 <vorlon> cate: you should, you're in the right groups on summit
20:29:04 <edrz> vorlon: we can discuss later.
20:29:19 <vorlon> #action vorlon, cate, edrz to follow up wrt summit DBA SPOF
20:30:12 <cate> #save
20:30:16 <vorlon> #topic Upcoming Deadlines
20:30:19 <gturner> vorlon: "gturner's FD TODOs were already discussed" - not in this meeting?
20:30:27 <gturner> vorlon: uh wait, there's the confusion about the new needs_to_pay fields that you and cate brought up last night - wrong table? label? permission/team? - guess we'll work that out tonight eh?
20:30:47 <cate> after the meeting?
20:30:49 <vorlon> gturner: under the registration/fd topic, they were discussed at least peripherally - FD should start using the roommate field :)
20:30:53 <vorlon> gturner: yeah, let's discuss tonight
20:31:01 <vorlon> I need to get back to work ASAP :/
20:31:05 <vorlon> deadlines
20:31:11 <vorlon> reducing room quantities, that deadline is past
20:31:23 <vorlon> there is a deadline for the venue payment coming up, which I didn't record last time
20:31:28 <vorlon> I think that's 2 weeks before
20:31:43 <vorlon> so that's on me to get payment done w/ SPI
20:31:57 <vorlon> (and on PSU to confirm for me the room changes)
20:32:05 <harmoney> Ok, I'm now afk'ing to drive home.
20:32:47 <vorlon> #info payment for venue due August 6
20:32:54 <vorlon> #action vorlon to make sure PSU gets paid for the venue
20:33:07 <vorlon> the other deadlines, nothing has changed
20:33:11 <cate> do we need a deadline for t-shirt?
20:33:16 <vorlon> is there anything else looming that people are concerned about?
20:33:21 <vorlon> cate: the deadline for the tshirts was 8 days ago
20:33:29 <vorlon> and then things got all screwed up
20:33:42 <vorlon> let's not discuss that further here/now
20:34:13 <cate> ok
20:34:40 <cate> so AOB, next meeting?
20:34:44 <vorlon> #topic Next meeting
20:35:26 <vorlon> I'm not available next week
20:35:29 <edrz> 2 weeks, then in person week of.
20:35:34 <vorlon> people can meet without me
20:35:38 <vorlon> or we can do the same time in 2 weeks again
20:35:39 <edrz> videoteam meeting is next week also
20:36:07 <nattie> edrz: what day next week?
20:36:15 <cate> tuesday
20:36:15 <edrz> tueday 18 utc
20:36:41 <cate> I think in two week would be ok. There is no urgent things to discuss
20:36:45 <nattie> we could have a brief general meeting next tuesday following on from the video team meeting?
20:36:48 <nattie> oh, ok
20:37:00 <vorlon> #info next meeting, Tuesday August 12 @ 1900 UTC
20:37:12 <vorlon> more important is that everyone follow up on their actions in the meantime and communicate with the people they need to communicate with :)
20:37:26 <vorlon> #endmeeting