18:58:57 <vorlon> #startmeeting
18:58:57 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue Aug 12 18:58:57 2014 UTC.  The chair is vorlon. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:58:57 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:58:58 <RichiH> madduck: relax guy
18:59:07 <bkerensa> :o
18:59:08 <vorlon> #topic Roll Call
18:59:11 <RichiH> .
18:59:12 <nattie> i guess i'm here
18:59:14 <madduck> piep
18:59:15 <vorlon> Steve Langasek
18:59:15 <bkerensa> Here
18:59:16 <cate> NTW https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf14/Meetings#Global_meeting.2C_Tuesday_12_August_at_1900_UTC_.281200_PDT.29.2C_.23debconf-team.40irc.debian.org
18:59:16 <CarlFK> here!
18:59:19 <cate> hello
18:59:20 * RichiH guesses nattie is here
18:59:21 <edrz> hi
18:59:22 * gturner is here
18:59:23 <vorlon> [LINK] https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf14/Meetings#Global_meeting.2C_Tuesday_12_August_at_1900_UTC_.281200_PDT.29.2C_.23debconf-team.40irc.debian.org
18:59:25 <ana> hi
18:59:25 <tmancill> present
18:59:26 * rmayorga waves
18:59:28 * valessio is here
18:59:29 * gwolf waves
18:59:31 <moray> cough
18:59:33 <zlatan> o/
18:59:33 <madduck> my goodness
18:59:38 <gwolf> will leave towards 45min from now
18:59:39 <madduck> dc14 must be near
18:59:45 * nattie hands moray a cough-sweet
18:59:46 <vorlon> #link https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf14/Meetings#Global_meeting.2C_Tuesday_12_August_at_1900_UTC_.281200_PDT.29.2C_.23debconf-team.40irc.debian.org
18:59:52 * harmoney is sorta here
18:59:57 <vorlon> hey, lotsa peoples
19:00:04 * blarson sneeze
19:00:19 <jmux> Yup
19:00:32 <vorlon> #topic Venue: final room configuration
19:00:49 * vagrantc here
19:00:51 * _rene_ also here
19:01:03 <vorlon> so, as discussed on list, I sent in the request to PSU to grab us room 338 for the week, in addition to rooms 327/8 and 329 (with a different split than before of the air walls)
19:01:19 <vorlon> that should meet our needs for talk space per the talks team, and should be ok for video team AIUI
19:01:22 <tiago> hi
19:01:45 <vorlon> I'm just waiting for PSU to get back to me with a final confirmation of the reservation change & amount, but I believe we're on track here
19:01:50 <moray> sounds good
19:01:54 <vorlon> any questions?
19:02:00 <harmoney> Just a note.
19:02:09 <nattie> (Eb?)
19:02:15 <vorlon> ana also raised a question on the list about renting an added small room for BoFs
19:02:23 <vorlon> but I didn't see any responses from the team
19:02:30 <harmoney> I had occassion to spend some time at PSU, specifically in the Vanport and ballrooms (which we have) - both are pretty cold. People will want to bring layers.
19:02:30 <vorlon> which I assume means no one thinks this is important
19:02:36 <harmoney> Then again, it's Portland. Peope should bring layers anyway.
19:02:55 <vorlon> harmoney: maybe you can shoot a mail to Mark to ask him about thermostat control?
19:03:11 <harmoney> vorlon: Looking around the rooms, I assure you we will not have thermostat control.
19:03:17 <moray> harmoney: reminding people will be sensible, including in a final reminder message
19:03:26 <madduck> harmoney: might be good to send a short message tomorrow with a few reminders, such as appropriate clothing.
19:03:30 <moray> not everyone may be used to the US "make the inside of buildings freezing" idea
19:03:42 <harmoney> I've lived here all my life, and *I'm* still not used to it.
19:03:44 <vorlon> harmoney: not /in/ the rooms, I assume it's somewhere else but that maintenance may be able to help us with it
19:04:07 <gwolf> vorlon: I talked with ana, I would not really like renting aditional rooms, as too many parallel sessions would dillute things further
19:04:09 <harmoney> I'll ask, but I have little faith.
19:04:15 <vorlon> gwolf: ok, then we're in agreement
19:04:26 <vorlon> #action harmoney to ask PSU about thermostat control for the vanport/ballroom area
19:04:29 <gwolf> so, she decided to send the mail and see if anybody jumped. Fortunately, nobody did
19:05:00 <moray> it sounded like other available spaces are fine for informal meetings
19:05:05 <moray> including local bars or whatever
19:05:16 <gwolf> harmoney: *THANKS*
19:05:22 <gwolf> cool is cool. Frigid is not.
19:05:49 <vorlon> anything else on rooms?
19:06:25 <vorlon> #topic Dining: projections for number of sponsored/non-sponsored diners at each meal?
19:06:53 <vorlon> so in the latest mail from PSU this morning, I'm being told that they want a constant number for the week rather than per-meal
19:06:57 <vorlon> which is irritating
19:07:01 <moray> We *have* collected relevant data in some previous years
19:07:11 <moray> but most of the time we then lost the data :)
19:07:23 <vorlon> because I think we do have enough data that we could give them more precise numbers, instead of them overcharging us for meals we know won't be used
19:07:29 <madduck> vorlon: HD wanted that too and then I said that this just means food thrown out and that broke them
19:07:44 <vorlon> madduck: I assume that doesn't work for Americans
19:07:44 <madduck> i.e. not the money card, but the waste cared
19:07:55 <vorlon> (as a general rule)
19:08:02 <moray> madduck: I thought you'd been to the US :p
19:08:10 <vorlon> besides, they'd be free to give the overage to charity on the backend
19:08:13 <madduck> moray: 12 years ago…
19:08:57 <vorlon> so anyway, this being the case I think we probably want to go with the 85% figure
19:09:06 <vorlon> (committing to pay for meals equal to 85% of our sponsored attendees)
19:09:19 <vagrantc> what happens if more people ask for food?
19:09:38 <cate> vorlon: but the first days there are much less people
19:09:41 <vagrantc> i.e. 90% show up?
19:10:15 <vorlon> this keeps us close enough to the top to avoid running out of food, while not consistently overpaying
19:10:22 <madduck> vagrantc: then we just pay for them, apparently they can accomodate 100 on the spot
19:10:23 <vorlon> vagrantc: the cafeteria will have a buffer
19:10:36 <vorlon> madduck: yes, except they're backpedalling on that too
19:10:38 <madduck> vorlon: 85% sounds good. even 80% would work with the 100 people buffer
19:10:41 <vorlon> and saying "maybe 50-60 instead of 100"
19:10:50 <vorlon> however, our total number of sponsored attendees is ~140
19:10:52 <madduck> so 85%
19:10:54 <vorlon> probably ~130
19:11:24 <moray> vorlon:  in previous years, caterers became more flexible when it came to the actual period ... but I don't know if there are layers of management/charging here
19:11:24 <madduck> if leftover food is not thrown out but given to a shelter, then i suggest 85%, since we have a budget that allows it
19:11:26 <vorlon> so if everyone sponsored shows up for a meal, that's still only ~20 people above our committment
19:11:37 <ana> vorlon: can we use a number for dinner and another for lunch?
19:11:57 <vorlon> moray: there are absolutely layers of management, PSU subcontracts this to one of the big horrible institutional caterers
19:12:02 <vorlon> ana: I don't know - I will ask
19:12:05 <ana> my impression is more people stay at the venue for lunch, while is more common going out for dinner
19:12:09 <vorlon> exactly
19:12:13 <madduck> vorlon: other question: let's say I (purposely) miss dinner, or there isn't any left, how easy is it for me to get food? And how much does it cost for an evening meal?
19:12:26 <harmoney> madduck: Very easy.
19:12:30 <madduck> and costly?
19:12:39 <harmoney> Restaurants across the street, food carts down the block.
19:12:43 <Ganneff> madduck: key updated
19:12:48 <madduck> Ganneff: super, thanks.
19:13:12 <harmoney> Food carts are very affordable. I would guess $5-$10 per meal depending how much  you get. Restaurants/pubs - as, always, depends on where you go, but plan on min $10/meal.
19:13:13 <vorlon> madduck: yes, there's lots of other food options around, I'd say you should be able to get a good dinner for < $20 and a great meal for < $30
19:13:22 <madduck> if it's easy and not too costly, I think 85% is too much.
19:13:23 <bkerensa> Also as an example some of the locals might not eat dinner and may go home?
19:13:32 <bkerensa> I know I will be going home for dinner ;)
19:13:35 <moray> madduck: also depends on the weather
19:13:39 <moray> and just on what other people do
19:13:43 <harmoney> bkerensa: That's a very small number.
19:13:45 <vorlon> madduck: as ana says, people will likely eat lunch close by and go out for dinner
19:13:46 <moray> and on the perceived food quality
19:13:53 <moray> in the venue and outside
19:14:02 <vorlon> let's assume we can use a different number for lunch vs. dinner - if so, what should those numbers be?
19:14:09 <vagrantc> which will change the numbers of people actuallyshowing up...
19:14:18 <madduck> vorlon: given that it's only for 130 people and that they can do ±50, I would go with 80% even
19:14:20 <taggart> the food carts are great, I can easily see groups of people going to them (and probably more likely in the evening)
19:14:31 <RichiH> bkerensa: as harmoney says, i think home eaters will be _very_ few
19:14:39 <madduck> vorlon: 90%–95% for lunch, 80% for dinner.
19:14:43 <nattie> home eating is killing catering!
19:14:52 <moray> if we have 130 sponsored, we wouldn't normally have them all attending on the same day anyway
19:15:02 <vorlon> madduck: ah, I was going to go lower
19:15:04 <moray> what is the maximum on a single day, perhaps less?
19:15:06 <nattie> moray: i think partial attendance isn't that high
19:15:12 <madduck> vorlon: I am fine with lower
19:15:19 <vorlon> moray: not enough to make a difference, but I'll check the actual numbers
19:15:28 <moray> ok
19:15:35 <vorlon> madduck: I was thinking 85% for lunch, 75-80% for breakfast+dinner
19:15:43 <moray> anyway, as above, it is in our interest to under-estimate, it appears
19:16:01 <madduck> vorlon: sounds good.
19:16:05 <moray> breakfast will be most variable depending on quality and depending on nighttime drinking options
19:16:09 <vorlon> I also have to sort out the details for special diets
19:16:12 <madduck> if we find out we are constantly below, we can improvise
19:16:17 <moray> some years a big proportion of people skipped breakfast
19:16:22 <vorlon> maybe because they're smaller batch, they have less flexibility
19:16:22 <madduck> or convince the caterers.
19:16:28 <vorlon> but I'll sort that out
19:16:32 <rmayorga> and breakfast is very early this year
19:16:36 <ana> 85% for lunch or brunch and 75% for dinner sounds good
19:16:39 <madduck> yeah, breakfast declines rapidly throughout the week
19:16:40 <rmayorga> probably some people will skip it
19:16:43 <RichiH> madduck: if the guesstimate is way too low, they can put out more bread or cook a ton of noodles
19:16:51 <Clint> or artisanal corndogs
19:17:06 * RichiH supposes that there's some elasticity in all kitchens, even if they like to pretend they need exact numbers
19:17:10 <nattie> Clint: hand-crafted
19:17:11 <vorlon> #agreed set meal committment at 85% of the sponsored head count; if we can do it by meal, set at 85% for lunch and 75-80% for breakfast+dinner
19:17:12 <harmoney> That's not really how it'll work here.
19:17:30 <harmoney> The caterer is large enough, if there isn't enough, they shrug and point you to the nearest coffee shop to get a donut.
19:17:32 <vorlon> #agreed brunch is also 85%
19:18:07 <vorlon> yes, as Patty says I don't think we should assume flexibility on the part of the kitchen staff.  This is corporate.
19:19:10 <moray> vorlon: it kind of depends on their normal procedure
19:19:25 <harmoney> moray: They're not flexible.
19:19:27 <moray> vorlon: in some previous university food setups it was easy as they were used to preparing food on a rolling basis
19:19:36 <moray> rather than just one huge batch
19:19:42 <vorlon> moray: yes, those were probably not subcontracted to the devil
19:19:51 <moray> but maybe here they need to type the number into the factory machine a day before
19:20:40 <harmoney> moray: It's not an instance of "factory machine punching". It's a very large corporation that doesn't serve us. They serve the university. They don't really care about being flexible forus.
19:20:44 <harmoney> And they won't.
19:21:29 <moray> so who does the "maybe plus 50 or 100" come from?
19:21:35 <gwolf> harmoney: if you state their inflexibility as so high, I would reduce a bit the percentages eating out
19:21:39 <moray> can we rely on the "+50"?
19:21:44 <vagrantc> so, given that they're not flexible, and there are plenty of other food options... what's the problem?
19:21:48 <gwolf> as I'd feel unfair for sponsored people to be told "sorry, no more food"
19:21:51 <madduck> moray: probably, yes.
19:22:05 <gwolf> If they *do* honor the +50, I'm fine with what's been agreed
19:22:08 <vorlon> moray: yes, we can rely on the +50
19:22:18 <vorlon> because we're being told by the university that we can rely on it
19:22:37 <vorlon> we cannot rely on the kitchen staff being willing to make more food for us on demand, beyond what's already promised
19:22:38 <gwolf> ...but if they *are* strict, bureaucratic and mean, we will have unhappy people - and the meal costs is not that high
19:22:53 <moray> vorlon: ok
19:23:01 <madduck> gwolf: they won't be able to do that. I am sure we will find a way if we really have hungry people.
19:23:21 <vorlon> so I think the original #agreed above still fits
19:23:24 <vorlon> shall we move on?
19:23:26 <gwolf> ...I would even go as far as offering sponsored people left without food that need it to refund them (out of DebConf budget) if they are sent to eat outside
19:23:27 <madduck> +1
19:23:27 <moray> yes
19:23:28 <CarlFK> Portland has good food everwyere
19:23:32 <gwolf> I don't know if you'd agree.
19:23:40 <gwolf> say, the cost of a normal meal of ours
19:23:53 <moray> (yes to vorlon, not sure about gwolf's point, depends on circumstances, but I don't think we need to expect that to happen)
19:23:55 <gwolf> (FWIW, I don't plan on playing that card myself - but some people might need)
19:23:55 <vorlon> gwolf: I don't think that's a contingency we have any reason to worry about
19:23:58 <madduck> gwolf: can I take you out to dinner once ;)
19:24:02 <vorlon> the risk of mis-sizing our meals is small
19:24:15 <vorlon> #topic Network: switch inventory and finalized configuration
19:24:16 <gwolf> madduck: I am able to pay for some meals. But some people might not
19:24:21 <vorlon> kees: around?
19:24:42 <gturner> kees, myself, and Keegan Ferrando (close friend + attendee + switch donor) have been discussing bringing 14 switches
19:24:48 <gturner> "(8) - 3560 48 port 10/100 Switches; (4) - 2950 48 port 10/100 Switches; (2) - 2960 24 port 10/100 PoE Switches; * All switches have two GigE uplink ports."
19:24:49 <vorlon> so we've had some discussions at local meetings about hardware possibilities - ah
19:24:53 <vorlon> there we go
19:24:55 <vorlon> :-)
19:25:01 <vorlon> right, I wanted to get this recorded in a meeting where we actually take notes ;)
19:25:01 <madduck> gwolf: I was kidding. I am sure we can find a way. If there are sponsored hungry people who can't afford dinner, I'll buy it once. Some others will buy it at other times.
19:25:28 <gwolf> madduck: no problem :) But I'm actively trying to de-focus this on the individual :)
19:25:33 <vagrantc> gturner: should i try to get some more donated from freegeek?
19:25:36 <gwolf> (am / was)
19:25:37 <vagrantc> gturner: or is that enough?
19:25:49 <vorlon> 14 switches sounds like an awful lot
19:25:51 <gturner> we were hoping to have the switches de-configured and ready by today, but we partied too much last weekend =)
19:25:53 <harmoney> gwolf: We will, of course, handle situations on a case-by-case basis. Worst case, if they're not horrible people and they don't irritate me, I'll buy them the lunch they miss.
19:26:08 <vorlon> previously we said on list we wanted 1 24-port switch for each hacklab, of which there are only 2
19:26:09 <gturner> vagrantc: i got the feeling it's enough, haven't heard much from kees though
19:26:20 <vorlon> 12 48-port switchis is surely overkill :-)
19:26:25 <vagrantc> vorlon: i recall that being 1 per table...
19:26:28 <moray> vorlon: epends on how many havey doors we need to keep open
19:26:37 <vorlon> moray: I can bring alphas
19:26:43 <moray> (depends/heavy/sorry)
19:27:24 <vorlon> gturner: I think that's clearly sufficient - so I think we can consider this in hand
19:27:42 <vorlon> gturner: are you happy for me to leave this with you from here out?
19:27:52 <vorlon> tmancill: ^^ info about switches, fwiw
19:27:53 <gturner> vorlon: sure!
19:27:57 <madduck> vorlon: I have one more question about food at the end of this topic — sorry…
19:27:57 <taggart> gturner: are those procurve?
19:28:07 <CarlFK> gturner: I was planning on bringing 2 similar switches to donate to the pool, but sounds like I should leave them home?
19:28:10 <vorlon> #info gturner working with Keegan Ferrando to provide the switches, we have more than enough
19:28:15 <gturner> taggart: procurve, isn't that HP? no - they're all Cisco
19:28:21 <vorlon> CarlFK: coal to newcastle
19:28:46 <CarlFK> vorlon: what?
19:29:06 <vorlon> CarlFK: don't bring them.  Were you planning these to be part of the video team freight shipment?
19:29:07 <nattie> i think that means "redundant"
19:29:14 <taggart> gturner: oh, similar model numbers...
19:29:30 <RichiH> gturner: i think all 48 port 3560 have four 1g sfp ports
19:29:47 <vorlon> CarlFK: the expression is "like carrying coal to Newcastle", i.e., bringing something to a place that already has plenty of it :)
19:29:51 <taggart> is the assumption that most attendees will use wired?
19:30:00 <CarlFK> vorlon: yes.  I have small 8 ports for the talk rooms.  good, that will shave about $5 from shipping cost :p
19:30:09 <vorlon> heh
19:30:19 <gturner> RichiH: i'd be surprised if Keegan mis-accounted the 1g sfp ports
19:30:20 <vagrantc> taggart: it is an important backup plan
19:30:23 <moray> in recent years few attendees used wired connections, except when wireless broke too badly
19:30:44 <vorlon> gturner: ^^ right, if CarlFK isn't bringing the small switches, we probably want to use some of Keegan's for the in-talkroom video team setup
19:30:45 <moray> beyond the video team, wired connections were mostly demanded for dev boards and similar
19:30:55 <vorlon> gturner: pretty sure the count you gave is still sufficient :)
19:30:58 <CarlFK> no no.. I'll still bring the small ones.
19:31:02 <RichiH> gturner: there's four: http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/catalyst-3560-series-switches/product_data_sheet09186a00801f3d7d.html
19:31:09 <moray> e.g. one table per hacklab with wired for attendee use
19:31:16 <moray> (if wifi works...)
19:31:22 <gturner> RichiH: okay, i'll point that out to Keegan and see what's up
19:31:24 <vorlon> CarlFK: speak plainly please, sarcasm and IRC meetings don't mix
19:31:27 <taggart> vagrantc: yeah in the past I usually used wired
19:31:32 <taggart> moray: that's good to hear
19:31:58 <CarlFK> I will bring the switchs needed to make videos
19:32:02 <RichiH> gturner: just to make sure: the 3560 and 2960 have sfp uplink, the 2950 have gbic. keep that in mind when planning spares, etc
19:32:13 <moray> taggart: but if wifi is problematic, the wired demand of course quickly goes to >100% of attendee numbers
19:32:17 <vorlon> but yeah, by and large we assume people will prefer wireless, until we start DoSing the university's wireless since they won't let us put up antennas
19:32:19 <gturner> we also have a bunch (like 24!) of Access Points, we could bring them for standby in case the PSU wireless network falls over
19:32:32 * vagrantc cannot count the number of debconfs where countless people complain about wireless within 1 meter of a perfectly functional wired connection
19:32:33 <vorlon> gturner: that was going to be my next comment ;)
19:32:39 <harmoney> gturner: Yup.
19:32:45 <RichiH> gturner: at dc13 we installed APs of our own and had redundancy from day 1
19:32:53 <RichiH> no idea about local possibilities & policies, though
19:33:07 <harmoney> I'm working on being Ms. Assertive Assertypants for if the network does break.
19:33:22 <gturner> RichiH: right, local policy is that PSU doesn't want us to run our own wireless
19:33:24 <moray> harmoney: towards the university or attendees?
19:33:30 <harmoney> moray: Yes.
19:33:37 <madduck> harmoney: you better keep track of all the personalities you've announced, because I cannot anymore.
19:33:56 <moray> madduck: put them on a wiki page?
19:34:31 <moray> (but now I'm violating vorlon's anti-sarcasm rule)
19:34:48 <vorlon> aside... can someone explain to me why https://debian.titanpad.com is demanding an account?
19:35:06 <vorlon> (asking in light of later agenda items
19:35:07 <vorlon> )
19:35:12 <formorer> anti spam?
19:35:15 <moray> I don't think that is new
19:35:16 <vorlon> #topic Network: lead needed for setup, to mindmeld with Kees
19:35:16 <bkerensa> gturner: this bad since their Wireless is already throttled
19:35:19 <formorer> ask mikap for details.
19:35:28 <bkerensa> Mmm
19:35:51 <gturner> bkerensa: indeed. plus it has an annoying 24-hour captive portal
19:35:53 <cate> vorlon: do you need a new tatanpad? I've the passwords, so I can create new pages
19:36:17 <vorlon> cate: we should have a couple, for drafting upcoming announcement mails, please
19:36:24 <vorlon> so, network lead for setup
19:36:31 <vorlon> gturner: you may already be in the loop on this? :)
19:36:42 <vorlon> I'm not sure if kees has already designated his local proxy
19:36:44 <gturner> vorlon: sorry not much :(
19:36:46 <vorlon> ok
19:37:03 <bkerensa> Is Kees not leading?
19:37:06 <gturner> Keegan offered to volunteer, so would i with deployment, etc.  but lead? no
19:37:14 <vorlon> so the deal is that kees is in charge of the network setup, but is not able to be physically present during the setup days
19:37:22 <cate> https://debian.titanpad.com/19  https://debian.titanpad.com/20
19:37:34 <vorlon> we need someone to take point on this, starting from Thursday the 21st
19:37:42 <bkerensa> I have volunteered to help deploy
19:37:51 <vorlon> cate: those urls are also demanding a login
19:38:02 <vorlon> and there's no account creation option :P
19:38:30 <cate> vorlon: now they should be ok. Default the pad are private
19:38:36 * vagrantc wonders why gobby fell out of favor
19:39:07 <vorlon> taggart: when are you arriving?
19:39:12 <vorlon> cate: thanks
19:39:16 <taggart> vorlon: first taking a large step backwards.... this is just the wired net? and some sort of router/nat thing?
19:39:36 <jrayhawk> vagrantc: because downloading and executing signed code is harder work than automatically downloading and executing unsigned code
19:39:39 <cate> BTW in debian wiki (IIRC) there is the procedure to find the password
19:39:45 <taggart> vorlon: thursday afternoon, I hope to work a couple hours in the evening and 4-5 hours on friday
19:39:54 <vorlon> taggart: wired net, two networks video team and conference, nat is via the university
19:40:09 <vorlon> taggart: work> for your day job or for DebConf? :)
19:40:13 <formorer> account data are stored on /home/debian/misc/titanpad-password on master.debian.org
19:40:16 <taggart> vorlon: is someone doing a local mirror/gobby/etc?
19:40:24 <taggart> vorlon: for debconf
19:40:39 <vagrantc> isn't there already a local mirror on campus?
19:40:55 <vorlon> taggart: university has a local mirror already, we can't run services on the conference network but we can look into a hosted server with cat.pdx.edu if someone wants to drive this
19:41:21 <taggart> and maybe ftp master have done local package upload stuff in the past?
19:41:28 <vorlon> taggart: however, the current agenda item is about finding a patsy^W delegate to run point for these things :-)
19:41:46 <bkerensa> vorlon: could we use the Nathan W box for that?
19:41:48 <Ganneff> umm, do we have external access to stuff at debconf, ie ssh, for people like me?
19:42:02 <Ganneff> or the video relays?
19:42:04 <taggart> vorlon: I have memories in nyc of people trying to make a sheevaplug be the router/nat/etc
19:42:15 <Clint> those were guruplugs
19:42:16 <jrayhawk> I can throw a vserver at you guys in the pdx.edu FAB NOC
19:42:25 <vorlon> Ganneff: er, what stuff are you expecting to ssh into? is this another one of these requirements that no one bothered to share with us?
19:42:30 <bkerensa> jrayhawk:  \o/
19:42:41 <taggart> vorlon: if the university is supposed to be doing all the dhcp and routing, it's just a matter of plugging things in right?
19:42:50 <taggart> vorlon: cause I am good at plugging things in!
19:43:02 <Ganneff> vorlon: machines? i assumed there is video and streaming it?
19:43:10 <bkerensa> taggart: I do not think that is the case
19:43:24 <vorlon> taggart: no, it's a matter of making it actually work when the university inevitably fails to deliver service to us, or the ports are automatically shut off because we've plugged switches in and they give us a hard time about fixing them, etc
19:43:37 <taggart> I have zero cisco experience tho, so maybe bkerensa/ gturner / etc could own that
19:43:38 <vorlon> Ganneff: yes, why do you need/expect remote access to them?
19:43:56 <bkerensa> taggart: my cisco experience is terrible to say the least... I would be RTFM'ing to the max
19:44:01 <taggart> vorlon: yeah I sort of expected that
19:44:13 <_rene_> vorlon: I think the admins should have access to them, no? :)
19:44:13 <Ganneff> i always had and always helped debconf even when not there? parts of setup, users, bla? parts of streaming stuff, ...
19:44:25 <bkerensa> I just asked bkero who is a sysadmin for Mozilla if he could help out
19:44:42 <bkerensa> Perhaps we could ask blkperl to do the cisco configs?
19:44:42 <vorlon> taggart: so - do you want to be our official local network lead during setup? :)  you will have helpers, we just need there to be a lead / point of contact
19:44:44 <taggart> bkerensa: I am hoping we won't need to do anything with them though, maybe physically separate nets for video and conf so no vlans needed?
19:44:48 <gturner> what day can we begin setting up the wired lan?
19:44:51 <gturner> 21st?
19:45:05 <taggart> vorlon: ok, as long as starting thurs afternoon is ok
19:45:11 <Ganneff> i mean fine, if it all falls out of the sky magically all the less work for me, but i doubt that
19:45:14 <vorlon> Ganneff: https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/Videoteam/Network says nothing about public IPs and remote access.  We have not negotiated this with the university.
19:45:27 <taggart> vorlon: will cable reels and crimping stuff be available?
19:45:45 <vorlon> taggart: kees is preordering cables of the needed lengths
19:45:46 <bkerensa> taggart: I hope so and if thats the case I think given our limited cisco experience we could do it
19:45:51 <taggart> and maybe a bunch of prefab cables of various lengths? good
19:46:27 <Ganneff> since dc5 that would be the first conf without any public ip. thats ... just wow.
19:46:31 <Ganneff> but meh, one could do vpns
19:46:42 <jrayhawk> I can also bring a spool, RJ45s, and a crimper.
19:46:53 <bkerensa> I can bring my crimper too
19:46:55 <taggart> without going into too much detail, something that could do QoS before going out to the university might be a good idea
19:46:58 <vorlon> taggart: but I would ask that you sync with kees on the rest so we can move on with the meeting
19:47:00 <jrayhawk> The more spare parts, the merrier.
19:47:08 <bkerensa> Might be nice to have tester for the cables?
19:47:18 <jrayhawk> eh, that's what MDX-capable laptops are for.
19:47:23 <bkerensa> :P
19:47:28 <vorlon> #agreed taggart to be our local lead on the network setup, starting afternoon of Thursday the 21st
19:47:34 <bkerensa> \o/
19:47:44 <cate> Ganneff: could you uopdate https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/Requirements/Network ?
19:47:45 <vorlon> #topic Schedule for local stand-up meetings during DebConf?
19:47:46 <Ganneff> having an (outside) accessible network is just so much standard and normal that probably noone bothered to write this down, but it was never needed to mention before.
19:47:53 <bkerensa> taggart: cool I will sync up with you Thursday let me know time of day to meet!
19:48:16 <taggart> bkerensa: ok, will msg
19:48:17 <gturner> btw taggart, Keegan is offering Cisco expertise, but will only be available on Thursday, maybe some of Friday, then not much on the weekend.
19:48:18 <vorlon> Ganneff: not only did no one bother to write this down, no one bothered to respond to kees's repeated requests for input on the mailing list.  Moving on now.
19:48:39 <vorlon> so I put this on the agenda because I'm not sure it's obvious to everyone or not
19:48:53 <vorlon> I've seen the team do local stand-up meetings in previous years
19:48:54 <Ganneff> oh fine, i dont care if it all wont work. less work for me, have fun failing parts of usual service
19:48:54 <madduck> vorlon: is this bofs and our plan? am i organising this?
19:49:07 <vorlon> and I think it's a good idea to continue having these
19:49:11 <harmoney> Ganneff: I fail to see how that's constructive.
19:49:14 <vorlon> madduck: this has nothing to do with bofs
19:49:20 <madduck> ah, orga meetings
19:49:24 <kees> jrayhawk, bkerensa: excellent. is it cat6?
19:49:41 <moray> vorlon: yes, they are useful, though less so once everything is working well
19:49:42 <madduck> Ganneff: I am sure we can find a way to get you access from the outside, and if by way of my laptop…
19:49:45 * gturner waves to kees
19:50:00 <moray> vorlon: better at lunchtime; in the evening attendance drops off too quickly (and there are more silly arugments)
19:50:00 <vorlon> so, those who have previous DebConf experience: is a daily stand-up the right model?  like, a quick 15-minute thing during the lunch break?
19:50:05 <cate> daoly meeting. videoteam repeat since years not to do it at noon
19:50:06 <madduck> Ganneff: I could bring a raspi or somesuch for permanent connection…
19:50:16 <vorlon> cate: what does "at noon" mean?
19:50:23 <cate> at lunch
19:50:26 <jrayhawk> Beats me. Having slightly twistier pairs does not offer enough of an advantage to warrant going out to my car to check.
19:50:27 <nattie> quick catch-up orga meetings are a good thing
19:50:30 <kees> gturner: hi!
19:50:32 <cate> they want to setup things and eat
19:50:36 <vorlon> cate: then when?
19:50:47 <madduck> vorlon: i suggest to schedule them every day 15 minutes before lunch as an incentive to keep them short
19:50:59 <vorlon> the video team is either setting things up, or recording things, or eating
19:51:06 <vorlon> the lunch hour is the only time I see open
19:51:19 <cate> vorlon: I don't know. We never get an answer of "when"
19:51:21 <moray> lunchtime is the only time that usefully works, except another scheduled break ... but then the video team would be busy or resting too
19:51:27 <kees> jrayhawk: okay, if video team is okay with non-cat6, that's fine. there were some minimum network speed requirements for that portion of the network.
19:51:38 <vorlon> cate: so, if the video team is not happy with the status quo, I think they need to propose an alternative
19:52:12 <cate> vorlon: but we need to make happy videoteam for they grat committement
19:52:15 <nattie> i think the videoteam should schedule their own daily meetings if they desire to have them
19:52:31 <vorlon> cate: you have not proposed a concrete change that we can make which will make the videoteam happy
19:52:46 <moray> nattie: I don't think this is about that, but about some video team members strangely wanting to also attend the general meetings
19:52:53 <cate> in DC10 there was evening meeting, IIRC
19:52:56 <moray> despite already having a "full time" job
19:53:04 <moray> cate: yes, and it failed after a few days
19:53:07 <moray> with zero attendance
19:53:24 <moray> and the real meetings happening in secret corridots
19:53:27 <moray> corridors
19:53:28 <CarlFK> video needs 100mb over cat5.  anything else is nicer but not needed.
19:53:28 <cate> moray: but also lunch meeting in DC12 there was few days with nobody
19:53:29 <madduck> evening is not a good time.
19:53:40 <nattie> is there a coffee break time scheduled?
19:53:46 <cate> so lunch, there is not much alternative
19:53:49 <moray> cate: we have tried evening more times than dc10, also without good results
19:54:00 <moray> nattie: video team wouldn't like that time either
19:54:04 <rmayorga> there is one empty 30mins spot on the schedule I think
19:54:09 <vorlon> from 3:15-4pm?
19:54:12 <nattie> rmayorga: is it consistent?
19:54:22 <moray> nattie: the shorter the break, the worse for video team for us to put something in it
19:54:38 <rmayorga> nattie: I think so, let me confirm
19:54:40 <vorlon> moray: otoh, lunch is only 1.5h and people have to eat lunch
19:54:54 <vorlon> so the effective break length then is even shorter
19:55:24 <vorlon> 3:30-4pm seems ok to me, but I'm not the expert
19:55:27 <madduck> vorlon: orga team should be allowed to jump queues…
19:55:55 <rmayorga> after 14:30 talks, we have end at 15:15, next batch of talks starts at 16:00
19:55:58 <vorlon> madduck: well, we don't have exclusive control over the dining room, maybe somebody jumps a queue and gets beat up ;)
19:56:34 <rmayorga> so, there is an empty 30mins slots all days
19:56:38 <moray> this afternoon break could also work, but isn't better for video team
19:56:38 <cate> when last talk end? A beer before dinner is a good incentive to sit in the orga team table
19:56:42 <rmayorga> 15:30-16:00
19:56:43 <vorlon> so we need to pick, either we have it at the afternoon break or we have it at lunch
19:56:44 * nattie suggests that slot
19:57:07 <nattie> putting it at the afternoon break would give us incentive to keep it short
19:57:09 <zlatan> cate, +1
19:57:12 <rmayorga> only fails to be consistent on the days for plenaries
19:57:15 <vorlon> cate: so we all have to go to the pub to have the meeting?  that's a good way to lose people en route
19:57:20 <nattie> TBH, the further along the week we got, the shorter the orga meetings got
19:57:34 <cate> vorlon: lose people before a beer? really never
19:57:57 * nattie offers cate a beer and immediately loses him
19:58:14 <vorlon> I think lunch and afternoon break are the only realistic options
19:58:18 <madduck> no nattie, that beer looses him
19:58:19 <moray> cate: lose people walking off-campus, and when they are busy rushing around just after talks (and already tired): yes
19:58:19 <vorlon> I have no preference between them
19:58:40 <moray> vorlon: it depends on how lunch service will be, I think
19:58:41 <vorlon> if we can't decide, we'll default to lunch
19:58:43 <harmoney> There is a starbucks across the street from SMSU.
19:58:49 <harmoney> We could have an afternoon coffee break at Starbucks.
19:58:54 <madduck> i will beat up anyone who goes to starbucks
19:58:56 <moray> vorlon: we can also change it during the week, as long as it is announced in enough places
19:59:01 <harmoney> madduck: Try.
19:59:10 <moray> (but not multiple times)
19:59:10 * gwolf excuses for not following the last part of the meeting (as some people came in my office to check stuff)
19:59:13 <madduck> harmoney: I am against meetings at starbucks
19:59:40 <gwolf> harmoney: I join the starbucks boycott. I prefer going to a place where actual coffee can be served
19:59:48 <vorlon> harmoney: now we know where to have our secret madduck-less meetings
19:59:58 <moray> I suggest we leave this topic to vorlon to decide the initial lunch vs. afternoon break time
20:00:00 <harmoney> vorlon: Great minds.
20:00:04 <madduck> you can just tell me and I will play werewolf, vorlon.
20:00:04 <vagrantc> gwolf: that will not be hard to find! :)
20:00:06 <edrz> vorlon: was that sarcasm?
20:00:12 <madduck> moray: +1
20:00:13 <gwolf> anyway... I'm off. And late. sorry!
20:00:30 <vorlon> #agreed daily stand-up meetings initially at the end of the lunch period; can modify on the ground as needed
20:00:45 <vorlon> edrz: no, dead serious ;-)
20:00:49 <edrz> heh
20:01:07 <vorlon> #topic Parking passes for the team - how many vehicles do we need on campus?
20:01:26 <madduck> one?
20:01:30 <bkerensa> People in Portland takes bike and transit :)
20:01:31 <bkerensa> heh
20:01:37 <vorlon> I think we can sort out amongst ourselves at the local team meeting the question of whose vehicles
20:01:44 <madduck> \#agreed
20:01:49 <vorlon> but this question is, what do we expect our needs to be
20:02:05 <moray> vorlon: having one car to transport things may be kind of useful
20:02:08 <moray> I don't see a need beyond that
20:02:08 <madduck> vorlon: what for? emergency best buy runs? one car…
20:02:13 <cate> one car to buy missing/broken stuff
20:02:20 <vorlon> really only one?
20:02:23 <tmancill> I will need one, and will have my car available for such errands.
20:02:41 <tmancill> gturner?
20:02:47 <madduck> vorlon: there are taxis and car sharing too, no?
20:02:48 <vorlon> so I'm planning to get weekly parking passes for tmancill and myself
20:02:51 <vagrantc> bike w/ bike cart likely to be faster in downtown portland...
20:02:55 <moray> vorlon: maybe we used an extra one for transporting e.g. a blind person before
20:02:58 <vorlon> because we will need the cars to get in, and then they'll be available
20:03:09 <madduck> vagrantc: okay, go and buy a new 64prt switch with that ;)
20:03:12 <vorlon> instead of having a single point of failure when you're trying to find the driver
20:03:13 <moray> but, two cars sounds more than sufficient
20:03:18 <vorlon> ok
20:03:21 <moray> as long as someone is avialable who can drive them
20:04:17 <vorlon> if we had other members of the local team who are volunteering and would prefer to have their cars on site, also making them available for errands, what should our policy be on letting them expense those?
20:04:24 <vorlon> those == parking passes
20:04:48 <moray> vorlon: again, I don't see a conference need for extra cars
20:04:54 * madduck neither
20:05:05 <vorlon> but there is a conference need for the volunteers to be able to get to and from the conference
20:05:07 <moray> maybe assign parking passes to one or two people who will be most available for errands
20:05:12 <cate> vorlon: I'm ok. passes against accommodation seems a good trade (for volunteers)
20:05:25 <harmoney> vorlon: In which case, we should offer an expense for gas and wear on the car like most businesses do, then.
20:05:26 <moray> vorlon: I thought Portland had public transport? :P
20:05:29 <vorlon> right, my thoughts were along cate's lines
20:05:38 <harmoney> If we're going to limit the pool, then we'll be increasing the stresses on those available.
20:05:41 <madduck> harmoney: *slap* ;)
20:05:49 <madduck> (for the gas expense)
20:05:58 <vorlon> moray: if you don't need to get somewhere in an urgent hurry to unblock the conference, and the only places you're going are on the transit route?
20:06:11 <harmoney> madduck: I'm serious. Businesses do this all the time for employees who use their car for business purposes.
20:06:17 <vorlon> moray: or if you mean for people coming in to the conference
20:06:21 <moray> vorlon: if you're talking about one or two extra people, I don't think we need to waste time discussing
20:06:30 <vorlon> yeah, it's on that order
20:06:30 <madduck> harmoney: don't get me started on "sensible things to do" vs. DebConf
20:06:31 <madduck> ;)
20:06:32 <moray> vorlon: if you're suggesting we pay for all "local" people's parking, that seems unnecessary
20:06:34 * gturner has to leave the meeting early, sorry :(
20:06:40 <vorlon> #agreed local team to use best judgement regarding parking passes for volunteers
20:06:43 <vorlon> done then :)
20:06:51 <vorlon> #topic On Site Ad-Hoc/BoF Scheduling
20:06:57 <vorlon> um I don't remember why this went on the agenda
20:07:07 <vorlon> was there something further to discuss?
20:07:07 <rmayorga> I add it
20:07:09 <vorlon> oh, ok
20:07:09 <madduck> am i in charge of that now?
20:07:35 <ana> we need to decide how to do it
20:07:42 <madduck> my proposal is:
20:08:00 <madduck> a whiteboard/corkboard by rego desk, with paper that people can stick on themselves
20:08:03 <madduck> reason:
20:08:12 <madduck> summit is too cumbersome and tiago must play volleyball anyway.
20:08:14 <vorlon> how will you mount the cork board?
20:08:21 <madduck> duct tape! ;)
20:08:25 <vorlon> we don't have permission to affix things to the walls
20:08:26 <moray> madduck: a previous meeting semi-agreed something along these lines
20:08:29 <cate> madduck: why not wiki ?
20:08:33 <madduck> moray: yes.
20:08:36 <ana> to things here: a) find a way that gives everybody the same chances to schedule something (which rules out physical whiteboard or similar) b) dedice how much time ahead the events can be scheduled
20:08:39 <madduck> cate: less tangible? but doable too.
20:08:47 <moray> vorlon: can we say "some kind of sign up sheet" and leave the details to be determined?
20:08:59 <ana> as cate says, for a) the best is wiki.debconf.org, so we can have track of it. about b) ideas?
20:09:11 <vorlon> moray: that's what we said before, but madduck is now being specific :)
20:09:11 <madduck> ana: (a) okay, if you say so…; (b) from the start of the conference?
20:09:15 <cate> madduck: to sign I agree, but people need to know about the ad-hoc meeting
20:09:26 <madduck> cate: my offer was
20:09:33 <madduck> to send an email every morning with today's events
20:09:40 <madduck> and after lunch too if you want.
20:09:41 <tiago> we need volunteers to hold a board then
20:09:49 <moray> tiago: haha
20:09:56 <madduck> so we use the wiki?
20:09:58 <moray> tiago: or maybe we can prop it up using cars?
20:10:07 <tiago> they are cheaper then paying for wall permission
20:10:11 <cate> madduck: if you send email, I'm ok
20:10:14 <nattie> i'm willing to babysit the signupsheet at fd
20:10:18 <tiago> politicians do it a lot
20:10:29 <madduck> ana: why is a physical board not okay?
20:11:17 <ana> madduck: it doesn't allow to keep track of changes and you have to go to the board to schedule things, when there shouldn't be any need
20:11:22 <moray> physical board plus requests through front desk, exported to email and web by madduck? ;)
20:11:38 <rmayorga> nattie: if there is a signupsheet, we can translate that to summit, by the end of the date I don't mind doing some work for it, but I'll need some help
20:11:50 <ana> madduck: and the wiki saves you the work of sending an email every day ...
20:11:56 <moray> ana: not really
20:12:05 <moray> ana: people won't actively check the wiki page
20:12:18 <n0rman> debconf wiki + irc bot?
20:12:26 <ana> n0rman++
20:12:29 <rmayorga> irc bot will need some way to be feed
20:12:32 <tiago> seriously, lets put a camera in front of the board
20:12:40 <madduck> tiago: i've had that idea ;)
20:12:42 <tiago> uploading pics
20:12:43 <madduck> too
20:12:43 <vorlon> ...
20:12:51 <tiago> that's fun at least
20:12:57 <moray> tiago: yes, we also discussed this before, and personally I think it would work
20:13:00 <cate> tiago: no need. a bot will intercept madduck mail and put into wiki
20:13:06 <nattie> it's like the CL coffee pot
20:13:06 <madduck> i am okay with wiki and will set it up, and figure out a way to get info pushed out at regular intervals
20:13:10 <moray> especially if the board is by frontdesk and they can write things on for people
20:13:14 <n0rman> rmayorga: right, someone can check wiki two or three times a day and then export it to summit and/or irc bot
20:13:14 <cate> I can create mediawiki bot
20:13:17 <tiago> btw, is the meeting still happening?
20:13:25 <madduck> cate: diffs are easy to be missed.
20:13:29 <vorlon> tiago: it might not be obvious, but yes
20:13:34 <rmayorga> tiago: we are on it :)
20:13:35 <tiago> oh
20:13:42 <madduck> vorlon: \#agreed… \#action… ? ;)
20:13:48 <vorlon> there's a whiteboard in the bikeshed
20:13:57 <moray> blackboard
20:14:02 <madduck> corkboard!
20:14:08 <nattie> what colour marker are we using?
20:14:08 <vorlon> #agreed ad-hoc/bof scheduling via the wiki
20:14:11 <n0rman> smartboard? :)
20:14:22 <tiago> wiki is boring
20:14:22 <vorlon> #action madduck to set up wiki page for ad-hoc/bof scheduling and figure out how to push the info out at regular intervals
20:14:23 <moray> n0rman: only if it runs free software
20:14:28 <vorlon> are we done? :)
20:14:37 <rmayorga> one last question
20:14:41 <CarlFK> two...
20:14:45 <rmayorga> :)
20:14:50 <rmayorga> one day in advance ?
20:15:00 <madduck> rmayorga: why?
20:15:03 <moray> how about we write the ad-hoc schedule on madduck's forehead, and use a wireless camera to export it?
20:15:05 <rmayorga> for the ad-hoc submission ?
20:15:09 <tiago> so i'll put my camera in front of the wiki and do my own uploads
20:15:09 <ana> one day in advance sounds fair
20:15:23 <madduck> are you trying to prevent bof squatting?
20:15:23 <rmayorga> madduck: having too much time in advance will cut space
20:15:29 <madduck> ic, ok.
20:15:31 <rmayorga> for ideas that comes on the conference
20:15:36 <vorlon> yes
20:15:39 <rmayorga> instead, we will have all the rejected talk as BoFs
20:15:49 <ana> exactly, we already had this discussion on the list :)
20:15:51 <vorlon> some of these ad-hoc things are going to be "meh we need to find a room to continue this conversation"
20:15:53 <cate> video team need one day for late talks that could be recorded, but ad-hoc means ad-hoc
20:16:10 <CarlFK> video team needs a day for what?
20:16:14 <madduck> i don't think we should have the expectation to have bofs recorded
20:16:22 <moray> sounds like some people are talking about minimum one day, others about maximum one day
20:16:25 <madduck> if you want a bof recorded, it's your job to organise it with the video team.
20:16:39 <madduck> moray: max one day is what I read
20:16:40 <cate> madduck: right, just to remember thatv sometime there is new talks that could be recorded
20:17:01 <vorlon> ok
20:17:03 <vorlon> ready to move on now?
20:17:05 <madduck> cate: then it's up to the person organising the talk to inquire with video.
20:17:10 <moray> madduck: yes, but the video point is a minimum :p
20:17:27 <cate> madduck: sure
20:17:27 <madduck> moray: i don't think video should cover every bof.
20:17:31 <moray> madduck: nor do I
20:17:33 <vorlon> #topic What communications need to go out to attendees, and when/where?
20:17:37 <ana> if you wanted your bof recorded, you're 3 months late
20:17:39 <vorlon> good then we're all agreed ;P
20:17:47 <moray> ana: that attitude is fine with me
20:17:49 <vorlon> so we've got a lot of comms stuff that needs to go out
20:18:00 <vorlon> I'm not sure how best to organize them, but we do have a list
20:18:07 <vorlon> we need to communicate to people about:
20:18:09 <vorlon> - day trip signup
20:18:12 <madduck> ana: … unless you can work something out directly with the video team, who are perfectly within their rights to say no without a reason ;)
20:18:13 <vorlon> - c&w party signup
20:18:24 <vorlon> - packing advice (things to bring/leave at home)
20:18:27 <vorlon> - travel reimbursement process
20:18:37 <vorlon> the last one I can't communicate yet because I don't yet know what the process will be
20:18:44 <vorlon> the others should go out asap
20:18:54 <madduck> vorlon: I think those things should go on a wiki and soon, and we should send an email soon and another just before, referering to the wiki
20:19:01 <vorlon> how should we send them?  one email for everything?  a couple emails, as soon as we have the topics done?
20:19:01 <rmayorga> for C&W I'll like to schedule it
20:19:05 <moray> for the last one, we really should get it done (require information to be provided) during the event
20:19:05 <cate> vorlon: the last one is more about: we should organize who lead the wiki and webpages comunications
20:19:07 <rmayorga> but I'm not clear on the time for it
20:19:09 <moray> otherwise it becomes a nightmare
20:19:11 <vorlon> madduck: what do you mean, "just before"?
20:19:17 <madduck> vorlon: wednesday or so
20:19:18 <vorlon> rmayorga: schedule what?
20:19:27 <madduck> c&w
20:19:30 <moray> vorlon: I would say one email for event signup stuff, one for packing and pointers to arrival insturctions
20:19:31 <rmayorga> vorlon: C&W I know the date
20:19:35 <rmayorga> but not the time
20:19:46 <vorlon> madduck: I don't know what you think we're sending on Wednesday, but the *deadline* for C&W registration is Wednesday
20:19:47 <rmayorga> I think I know the date :)
20:19:48 <madduck> rmayorga: 21:00 — after dinner
20:19:49 <_rene_> ideally like last conferences where people collected copies of the booking/receipts
20:19:50 <moray> reimbursement stuff in a separate message to relevant people
20:19:53 <rmayorga> madduck: thanks
20:19:58 <madduck> vorlon: no, wed just before the conf.
20:20:08 <_rene_> and did the bookkeeping there...
20:20:10 <vorlon> madduck: yes, that is the deadline for signup
20:20:18 <madduck> vorlon: one email asap, another in two weeks
20:20:25 <_rene_> as moray says, doing that when all them are back somewhere else in the world is.. bad...
20:20:26 <madduck> same wiki page
20:20:32 <vorlon> madduck: your math is off
20:20:34 <vorlon> let's back up here
20:20:38 <madduck> it is ;)
20:20:41 <madduck> sorry
20:20:45 <vorlon> we need to notify people about these things
20:21:05 <vorlon> do we send the mails to debconf-announce, or do we believe we need to send targeted mails to individuals regarding the signups, to make sure people are informed?
20:21:19 <rmayorga> vorlon: also, from last meeting
20:21:24 <rmayorga> some info is not having proper description
20:21:26 <moray> what is the state of debconf-announce?
20:21:29 <rmayorga> like daytrip
20:21:36 <nibalizer> bkerensa: ohai
20:21:36 <rmayorga> someone ask today, because it is on the schedule
20:21:43 <madduck> -announce, and a wiki page is more flexible. reimbursement could be mail-merged to db data
20:21:49 <rmayorga> but it does not said nothing, besides "add description"
20:21:50 <vorlon> Ganneff: are you actively syncing subscribers from summit still for debconf-announce?
20:21:55 <cate> vorlon: we can send both (attendee and announces)
20:22:14 <vorlon> rmayorga: yes, my fault; this time I'm putting it on the agenda for the local meeting
20:22:36 <rmayorga> ok, if perms for summit are not sorted out
20:22:38 <vorlon> cate: ok
20:22:48 <rmayorga> please just mail me with the descriptions and so on, I can do it on summit
20:23:21 <vorlon> madduck: where did that 21:00 come from? I don't remember seeing that time set anywhere
20:23:24 <madduck> rmayorga: didn't the mail by harmoney include a lot of info? if so, maybe just a url pointer and a lead-in saying that's it's organised?
20:23:35 <vorlon> gturner: what time did you agree with PL on the C&W party?
20:23:44 <madduck> oh fuck, c&w is external
20:23:46 <madduck> sorry vorlon
20:23:57 <vorlon> it sure is
20:24:01 * madduck hides
20:24:17 <madduck> rmayorga: forget the 21:00 I said earlier. My bad.
20:24:46 <vorlon> so otherwise, we have moray's suggestion of one mail for event signups, one mail for packing/arrival instructions
20:24:49 <Ganneff> vorlon: just done another round
20:24:55 <vorlon> the latter seems to me like it belongs just on debconf-announce
20:25:08 <vorlon> the former, I think we can send both to -announce and to individuals
20:25:10 <vorlon> is that sensible?
20:25:16 <madduck> vorlon: the former could be a mail-merge to all where the field == false.
20:25:34 <vorlon> madduck: it needs to send to everyone but the information may be different
20:25:54 <madduck> i am fine with your idea. don't be afraid to send too much mail.
20:25:56 <vorlon> because people who said "yes" to the daytrip need to be told what they're signing up for, people who said "no" need to know their options
20:26:11 <vorlon> I'm not afraid of sending too much mail, I'm only afraid of running out of time to get them written :-)
20:26:11 <Ganneff> (and jftr, debconf announce has 1369 members total)
20:26:21 <cate> note about daytrip: 33 people signed it in summit as attend event
20:26:30 <vorlon> Ganneff: hurray! but only 300 of them get tshirts
20:26:38 * harmoney nods sagely.
20:26:50 <madduck> vorlon: I can write an email if you tell me which one.
20:26:53 <vorlon> cate: and we will ignore this, so we'd better make sure they know the *right* way to sign up ;)
20:27:04 <vorlon> so, cate created some etherpads for me earlier (thanks, cate!)
20:27:11 <vorlon> https://debian.titanpad.com/19 - draft of event signup announcement
20:27:24 <vorlon> https://debian.titanpad.com/20 - draft of what-to-pack, arrivals info
20:27:34 <rmayorga> madduck: yes, compiling by email is hard, better if someone write down some good description about the event
20:27:35 <vorlon> and the mail-merge needs to be done in git anyway, I think
20:27:40 <vorlon> does that make sense?
20:27:58 <moray> I need to run and find a charger, then hope I can get back online there)
20:29:22 <vorlon> ok, trying to scan scrollback, but there's a lot of it
20:29:30 <vorlon> were there any other communications we need to send out?
20:29:43 <CarlFK> yes.. and I have it covered..
20:29:48 <CarlFK> here is the text https://github.com/CarlFK/veyepar/blob/master/dj/scripts/email_title.py
20:29:48 <cate> no
20:29:53 <cate> reimbursement is separate
20:30:14 <vorlon> CarlFK: ok, cool
20:31:19 <vorlon> #topic Banners: update on artwork and number of items to be printed
20:31:25 <vorlon> whose item is this?
20:31:27 <vorlon> harmoney: ?
20:32:08 <tmancill> It's mine.
20:32:19 <vorlon> ah, ok
20:32:22 <vorlon> tmancill: go for it :)
20:32:23 <tmancill> Just wanted to ask when we thought we'd have artwork ready to be printed.
20:32:36 <vorlon> hum, dunno
20:32:38 <vorlon> harmoney: ?
20:32:39 <vorlon> ;)
20:32:41 <tmancill> It takes a while to print them, and so I'd like to get started.
20:32:50 <vorlon> how long is "a while"?
20:32:59 <vorlon> if you can give us a deadline and we work back from there, that might be best
20:33:02 <tmancill> ~40 minutes per poster
20:33:20 <nattie> will they need laminating?
20:33:23 <tmancill> August 18th?
20:33:46 <vorlon> #info deadline for artwork for posters/banners: August 18
20:33:54 <tmancill> No plans for laminating.  I will mount them to a stiff foam board.
20:33:58 <harmoney> tmancill: Tell Matto you need artwork EOD 16 August.
20:33:59 <tmancill> thx
20:34:03 <tmancill> will do
20:34:18 <vorlon> #action tmancill to communicate poster artwork deadline of EOD 16 August to Matto
20:34:22 <vorlon> there
20:34:28 <vorlon> anything else?
20:34:32 <cate> tshirt, badges are ok?
20:34:42 <vorlon> #topic tshirts, badges
20:34:48 <vorlon> I don't think we discussed badges concretely
20:34:55 <vorlon> does someone have a master script for generating printable badges?
20:35:11 <cate> we should ask odyx
20:35:13 <nattie> last year we had Monsieur Didier's badge printer
20:35:25 <vorlon> cate: do you want to take the action to ask him?
20:35:25 <nattie> of course, that was from penta rather than summit
20:35:34 <cate> vorlon: ok
20:35:37 <CarlFK> oh, speaking of printing .. will there be a printer on site?
20:35:46 <vorlon> #action cate to ask OdyX about printing scripts for badges
20:35:48 <vorlon> CarlFK: yes
20:35:48 <harmoney> I have been advised by The Lanyard People to go to an office store and just purchase badge holders instead of tryign to special order them.
20:35:51 <cate> and the lanyard are still a problem
20:35:54 <harmoney> Lanyards are being printed.
20:36:00 <harmoney> Lanyards are in hand.
20:36:09 <cate> good
20:36:34 <tmancill> I am bringing an inkjet printer.  I can also bring a B&W laserjet if necessary/preferable.
20:36:37 <harmoney> I've ordered some Debian-branded lanyards for this year, to avoid the .. ah ... discussionsf rom last year.
20:36:48 <vorlon> ;)
20:37:40 <CarlFK> tmancill: I would very much like a laser for morning printouts that are 3 pages per room (so 9 pages each morning when time is short)
20:37:41 <vorlon> so we will need supplies for on-site badge printing, and we can probably pre-print badge for those who are preregistered
20:38:03 <vorlon> details can be sorted out locally
20:38:44 <vorlon> #topic Next meeting
20:38:55 <vorlon> TRICK TOPIC!  There is no next meeting, the next meeting is a conference
20:38:57 <vorlon> hurray ;)
20:39:08 <tmancill> CarlFK: the inkjet will do 18ppm
20:39:27 <tmancill> but will make sure we have something servicable
20:39:44 <vorlon> so that's the agenda
20:39:47 <CarlFK> actually if you can bring 2, I would love to have one in the NOC
20:39:48 <cate> and as list item
20:39:53 <harmoney> tmancill: Are you coming tonight?
20:39:54 <cate> we have new chairs!!!
20:40:03 <vorlon> is there anything else we urgently need to discuss as a group?  I assume side-topics will continue post-meeting
20:40:04 <rmayorga> vorlon: so, next meeting on 22nd @ some local pub ?
20:40:07 <tmancill> harmoney: I'll be a the local meeting tonight.
20:40:14 <harmoney> tmancill: Good. I have Printer questions. :)
20:40:18 <vorlon> right, welcome to Tincho and tassia as new DebConf chairs
20:40:25 <nattie> woo yay, go them!
20:40:30 * vagrantc cheers
20:40:30 <vorlon> rmayorga: quite possible :)
20:40:48 <vorlon> #endmeeting