18:33:56 <tumbleweed> #startmeeting
18:33:56 <MeetBot> Meeting started Wed Jun  1 18:33:56 2016 UTC.  The chair is tumbleweed. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:33:56 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:34:03 <DLange> role call? :D
18:34:04 <indiebio_> *\o/*
18:34:08 <tumbleweed> nattie did ask us to stall a bit, but we can cover unrelated things
18:34:09 <tumbleweed> such as that
18:34:14 <ginggs> o
18:34:25 <tumbleweed> Agenda:
18:34:26 <tumbleweed> http://deb.li/DC16meet1
18:34:27 * olasd rolls
18:34:28 <DLange> \i/
18:34:34 <Mithrandir> oi
18:35:10 <tumbleweed> I guess we don't have an nkukard-traveling, so we can't start with his bit
18:35:15 <wendar> o/
18:35:30 <tamo> Hi
18:36:06 <tumbleweed> let's start with sponsors, that's not a nattie area
18:36:09 <tumbleweed> #topic sponsors
18:36:35 <tumbleweed> Does anyobody know who is on the fulfillment@dc.o alias?
18:37:04 <indiebio_> I just need to get on to that alias please. Ganneff ?
18:37:15 <tumbleweed> and presumably tamo too?
18:37:16 <paddatrapper> o/
18:37:24 <tumbleweed> there were queries there about banners, which is very much her world
18:37:39 <wendar> tumbleweed: never heard of the alias before
18:37:48 <gwolf> If we want Ganneff to add people to an alias, we should probably #action it
18:37:51 <DLange> we used in from DC15
18:37:59 <gwolf> (yes, it's the first time I hear about the alias as well)
18:38:02 <tamo> tumbleweed: is that to get me signed up?
18:38:10 <DLange> this is for the sponors
18:38:16 <wendar> DLange: is there any reason it can't just forward to debconf-team?
18:38:23 * nattie arrives
18:38:30 <wendar> DLange: or, debconf-sponsors?
18:38:33 <DLange> yes, too many people on -team, wendar
18:38:34 <tumbleweed> DLange: what was the alias used for? sponsor swaggy stuff?
18:38:56 <DLange> sponsor fulfillment of their perks etc.
18:39:01 * larjona afk and multitasking, will try to catch up
18:39:01 <wendar> DLange: trying to avoid emails going to dead aliases that no one uses
18:39:15 <gwolf> -sponsors would make sense
18:39:22 <wendar> DLange: then -sponsors
18:39:35 <DLange> fine for me as long as it's not -team :)
18:39:44 <gwolf> Even not mentioning fulfillment@ would make sense. Why bother sponsors with extra aliases to learn, with no clarity on when to use each?
18:39:47 <indiebio_> the argument I heard was to remove too much traffic from -sponsors
18:39:56 <gwolf> hmh
18:39:59 <indiebio_> ok, that's fine then
18:40:03 <wendar> indiebio_: the traffic on sponsors is light, not really necessary
18:40:06 <DLange> sponsors@ is RT though
18:40:15 <wendar> DLange: yes, intentionally
18:40:24 <DLange> may be 10 yrs ago :)
18:40:27 <gwolf> DLange: but debconf-sponsors exists as an alias, am I mistaken?
18:40:50 <wendar> yes, debconf-sponsors is a regular list, no RT
18:41:02 <wendar> sponsors goes to RT and debconf-sponsors
18:41:19 <wendar> so, fufillment can go to just debconf-sponsors, and not RT
18:41:30 <DLange> sounds good
18:41:47 <tumbleweed> ok, let's move on
18:41:53 <tumbleweed> can I action someone to sort this out?
18:42:29 <gwolf> (how calm has this channel become since tumbleweed asked for volunteers...)
18:42:34 <gwolf> (am I volunteering?)
18:42:40 <wendar> tumbleweed: what do you need?
18:42:41 <nattie> (maybe?)
18:42:41 <DLange> take me
18:42:53 <DLange> I'm on all the aliases :)
18:42:58 <wendar> tumbleweed: just someone to make sure Ganneff adds debconf-team to fulfillment?
18:43:01 <tumbleweed> #action DLange to get fulfillment@ to alias to debconf-sponsors and/or be deleted
18:43:10 <wendar> +1
18:43:19 <tumbleweed> #topic logos on the website
18:43:34 <tumbleweed> I assume adding sponsors stalled because superfly had to take a break
18:43:49 <tumbleweed> is there a backlog here that someone should be picking up?
18:44:02 <tumbleweed> or are the pending sponsors not at the right point yet (I have no idea how this all works)
18:44:03 <indiebio_> this is mine, I think I didn't see ZSD on the website (supporter level?), so, 1. I need to check, I do think they do get on the website at that level
18:44:27 <indiebio_> and 2., superfly has had family troubles, and I wasn't sure if there was a backlog or not, as I am also behind
18:44:36 <wendar> tumbleweed: I haven't cross-checked the current sponsors and website logos
18:44:58 <tumbleweed> ok, indiebio_ you'll look into it?
18:44:59 <DLange> ZSD and takealot are missing
18:45:01 <azeem_> cumulus and plathome have confirmed as bronze and could go up
18:45:08 <azeem_> q
18:45:09 <azeem_> oops
18:45:14 <indiebio_> so the brochure says supporter does go to the website, but the website does not have that category
18:45:26 <nattie> guess we should add it then
18:45:27 <azeem_> indiebio_: the sponsors page has
18:45:29 <DLange> irc'ing with less, azeem_ ? :)
18:45:52 <azeem_> indiebio_: ok it doesn't :)
18:45:54 <indiebio_> azeem_: https://debconf16.debconf.org/sponsors/? I don't see it
18:46:01 <wendar> indiebio_: ZSD are only "contacted" in the database
18:46:26 <DLange> yeah, zsd hasn't updated the git
18:46:29 <wendar> indiebio_: we don't have any confirmed supporters in the database
18:46:39 <indiebio_> this is NB for me as I hope to go talk to people in person in the next weeks to get Open Weekend support. If they sponsor I expect them to be in the supporter category
18:46:40 <wendar> indiebio_: so, that's why no category for it
18:47:03 <tumbleweed> ok, so there are other sponsors who aren't up, but they aren't one of them
18:47:10 <tumbleweed> azeem_: can you follow up with me on this after the meeting?
18:47:14 <indiebio_> ah, sorry wendar, I've not been up to date. I did email DLange for Zsd, and they did pay their invoice, can we update them, please?
18:47:15 <azeem_> yes
18:47:34 <indiebio_> I'm not on the machine that has my git
18:47:35 <tumbleweed> back to the top of the agenda
18:47:46 <tumbleweed> #topic swag
18:47:52 <tumbleweed> #topic swag - t-shirts
18:47:54 <tumbleweed> that's better
18:48:02 <nattie> once a jolly swagman passed by a billabong...
18:48:12 <wendar> DLange: can you enter your activity for ZSD in the sponsors-list? I don't know dates or details.
18:48:19 <tumbleweed> https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/debconf-data/dc16.git/plain/swag/tshirts-hoodies.pdf
18:48:44 <indiebio_> #action indiebio to update her git and check zsd and takealot is on website
18:48:48 <tumbleweed> tamo: What do we need to talk about, here?
18:48:53 <tamo> tumbleweed: I guess the plastic cotton combo is out, :) not many happy with that
18:49:05 <tumbleweed> yeah, and I'm with that camp :)
18:49:08 <KGB-0> 03Michael Banck 05master edf06bd 06debconf-team/logos 03plathome/plathome_logo-tagline.png Add Plat'Home logo
18:49:24 <nattie> tamo: the thought is nice, but breathability is a thing
18:49:34 <tamo> tumbleweed: me too actually :) but it is surprisingly soft and very breathable
18:49:35 <nattie> i like the hemp/cotton idea
18:50:07 <Mithrandir> tamo: even after wearing it for a full day?
18:50:08 <gwolf> Yes, but hemp+organic is R215, while plain cotton is R180
18:50:20 <tamo> nattie: hemo/cotton is lovely and soft a bit more pricey though
18:50:23 <gwolf> (I find it strange that plastic is more expensive than plain cotton)
18:50:29 <indiebio_> #action azeem, indiebio follow up "cumulus and plathome have confirmed as bronze and could go up"
18:50:53 <gwolf> oh, other prices for other designs... But a similar ratio
18:51:41 <tamo> gwolf: It is a mixture of the palstic Bottles and Cotton, I think becuase of the process it goes through
18:52:13 <gwolf> Right... But I expected the process to be much cheaper, as it recycles waste :) Anyway... I'm even more sided to the cotton.
18:52:38 <tamo> all T's are dyed to our colour choices and well as branded. The branding will ne printed on, so it last longer than a silkscreen
18:52:43 <gwolf> (and now that I see the proposed designs, I'm changing some opinions, siding towards page 2, baseball semi-long shirts)
18:52:47 <tumbleweed> so, we budgeted R200 (VAT inclusive) per shirt
18:53:10 <tamo> tumbleweed: R250
18:53:21 <Mithrandir> gwolf: where are the actual designs?
18:53:29 <tamo> tumbleweed: yup a guess with VAT it is R250
18:53:42 <tumbleweed> tamo: I see R200 in the budget
18:53:53 <gwolf> Mithrandir: https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/debconf-data/dc16.git/plain/swag/tshirts-hoodies.pdf
18:54:03 <gwolf> How much is .za VAT?
18:54:05 <tamo> tumbleweed: Nope...
18:54:10 <highvoltage> gwolf: 14%
18:54:15 <tamo> tumbleweed:  let me check
18:54:18 <tumbleweed> https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/debconf-data/dc16.git/tree/budget/budget.ledger#n227
18:54:28 <tumbleweed> estimating 350 shirts at R200 each
18:55:13 <tamo> tumbleweed: R70 000/by 250 = R280 per shirt
18:55:36 <tumbleweed> 250 doesn't leave any margin
18:55:36 <gwolf> So design #1 would be 193.79, #2 would be 205.20, design #3 319.20 (on cotton, cheapest option)
18:55:41 <tumbleweed> we need more than 250 shirts
18:55:48 <tamo> tumbleweed: oh ok if you are making it 300, that ws not the number I was working with
18:55:51 <DLange> R200 is very expensive
18:55:56 <gwolf> tumbleweed: Yes. Staff and video add up.
18:55:57 <tumbleweed> tamo: the number I'm looking at is 350
18:56:02 <tamo> tumbleweed: cool then elminates the Hoodies straight away
18:56:10 <tumbleweed> you need a margin over 250, and video and orga shirts
18:56:29 <DLange> that's 11.50 EUR
18:56:32 <tamo> tumbleweed: that is included in the numbers for Video and Orga?
18:57:04 <tamo> tumbleweed: they are separate are they?
18:57:09 <tumbleweed> tamo: I'm guessing so, that refers me to http://lists.debconf.org/lurker/message/20151108.205836.462cef3a.en.html
18:57:12 <tumbleweed> yes, they are
18:57:27 <tamo> tumbleweed: ?? ok so what is the real budget then?
18:57:52 <tumbleweed> err no shirt numbers in that thread
18:57:59 <tumbleweed> tamo: I mean, that's what's been budget
18:58:00 <tumbleweed> ed
18:58:53 <tamo> tumbleweed: ok, a little confused I thought 250units, with Video and Orga included in that number, or do the Video and Orga get 2 T's
18:59:00 <DLange> yes
18:59:03 <moray_> or more
18:59:12 <nattie> tamo: we accumulate all the shirts
18:59:23 <tumbleweed> and we are expecting 250 attendees
18:59:25 <DLange> everybody gets one attendee shirt and one of their group where they belong to (if any)
18:59:27 <moray_> and you need more attendee ones than the expected number
18:59:30 <tumbleweed> so 250 shorts isn't nearly enough, never mind orga or video
18:59:34 <tumbleweed> shirts :P
18:59:43 * nattie agrees with moray there
18:59:50 <tamo> tumbleweed: yes but then the budget doesn't cover it
19:00:00 <tumbleweed> tamo: then we need to fix that
19:00:02 <gwolf> besides, we have to send shirts to sponsors and whatnot
19:00:06 <tumbleweed> but this was budgeted months ago
19:00:11 <moray_> yes, another 30 or whatever for sponsors
19:00:23 <moray_> gwolf: good to remember that point
19:00:38 <gwolf> tumbleweed: So we need to amend the budget to cover it
19:00:42 <DLange> tamo: Your shirts are too expensive. The DC15 ones where ~7€.
19:00:46 <tamo> tumbleweed: to get a T that is less than R160/R180, custom made with sizes s-5xl, printed with branding is impossible
19:00:55 <moray_> tumbleweed: well, probably at that point the expected number was higher, so it seems like it's the unit price that has increased
19:01:05 <mehdi> where the constraint about shirts to sponsor is written? (sponsor brochure?)
19:01:21 <nattie> mehdi: it's customary
19:01:26 <gwolf> yup, that's closest to the most expensive T-shirts we have had... but I think we are too late to source remotely
19:01:28 <tamo> DLange: you can't get a cheaper price than that
19:01:29 <tumbleweed> moray_: I think nobody actually looked into that budget line
19:01:30 <DLange> nowhere. It's just cu.. what nattie says
19:01:33 <tumbleweed> our budget review has been very cursary
19:01:48 <mehdi> nattie: so we don't _have_ to :-) it is just nice to do so.
19:01:54 <DLange> tamo: again, the DC15 one which you have at home was 40% cheaper
19:02:06 <nattie> it's good diplomacy, i think
19:02:08 <tamo> DLange: remember they are custom made and they don't normally make up to 5xl
19:02:08 <tumbleweed> and made in europe? :)
19:02:25 <olasd> mehdi: it's on the sponsor brochure actually (silver+)
19:02:29 <DLange> tamo: custom made is not a requirement, is it?
19:02:31 <moray_> tamo: not clear why we need custom made for everyone
19:02:44 <gwolf> And... Well, the largest shirts I've ever used (and I was *quite a bit* bigger than today, which is already saying something) were 2XL
19:02:53 <mehdi> olasd: right, makes sense then (if it is promised)
19:02:55 <tamo> DLange: yes it is, becuase we need all sizes to cover everyone
19:02:59 <gwolf> ...Do we really need 5XL? Or... What are Southafrican sizes like?
19:03:00 <nattie> gwolf: some people are tall as well as wide
19:03:07 <moray_> gwolf: 2XL vs. 5XL is meaningless without knowing measurements
19:03:10 <nattie> think "normannischer kleiderschrank"
19:03:11 <gwolf> nattie: count me in
19:03:13 <moray_> gwolf: (so is S vs. L)
19:03:27 <highvoltage> gwolf: one smaller than US, generally
19:03:27 <tamo> gwolf: YES that was a big requirement at last years conference
19:03:29 <gwolf> moray_: Right, that's my question :) What does 5XL mean in centimeters, so we can compare..
19:03:31 <tumbleweed> yes, I was hoping we'd have a sizing chart for regitrations to refer to
19:03:31 <DLange> tamo: we got XS-5XL in Germany from normal suppliers. The same should be possible in ZA.
19:03:36 <juliank> Weren't the DC15 shirts even fair wear shirts by stanley and stella?
19:03:41 <DLange> check Fruit of the Loom for example
19:03:44 <tamo> DLange: this is nor Germany
19:03:48 <DLange> juliank: yes
19:03:53 <tamo> *not
19:04:15 <nattie> so we should basically match the sizes we had in .de?
19:04:18 <DLange> juliank: unless 4XL and 5XL, these needes to be a non-fair-trade supplier (but still eco cotton etc.)
19:04:32 <tumbleweed> let's stop piling on, and actually get to the bottom of what we need her
19:04:39 <moray_> highvoltage: "one size smaller" is ambiguous for which direction you mean (size to choose vs. size a label represents)
19:04:40 <tamo> nattie: no, because people said they couldn't get a T-shirt in their size
19:04:41 <tumbleweed> tamo: do we need the shirts to be custom made for normal size ranges?
19:05:06 <nattie> tamo: can you tell me more about that later please?
19:05:19 <Mithrandir> what does "custom made" mean here, apart from pricier?  They're not talking about tailored for each person. :-P
19:05:32 <nattie> because we went out of our way to get a large size range
19:05:40 <tamo> tumbleweed: no then you order any colour you want, it will still cost you R70- R80 per Shirt and the rest for printing. Trust me I have done my homework
19:06:08 <highvoltage> moray_: if you took 10 random XL T-shirts in South Africa, they would be on average, about the same size as 10 L t-shirts in the US
19:06:08 <tumbleweed> tamo: so, 350*170*1.14 = 67830
19:06:11 <tumbleweed> that fits in the budget
19:06:29 <tamo> tumbleweed: the reason why we are discussing this now, is becuase I ahve been through a number od suppliers to get a decent price
19:07:08 <nattie> if they're being made, we can call the sizes whatever we want really
19:07:11 <tamo> tumbleweed: waht does that mean?
19:07:35 <tamo> tamo: so, 350*170*1.14 = 67830
19:07:38 <tumbleweed> tamo: I'm saying 350 shirts, at R170 (ex VAT) each is R68k, which is under R70k
19:07:39 <nattie> tamo: 350 shirts at 170 rand plus vat
19:07:58 <tamo> tumbleweed:  perfect I can negotiate that
19:08:08 <nattie> tumbleweed: inc vat surely?
19:08:17 <tamo> tumbleweed: we need to add VAT onto that too
19:08:20 <tumbleweed> nattie: the PDF says ex
19:08:35 <tamo> tumbleweed: what is it with VAT
19:08:35 <nattie> tumbleweed: i meant you were adding vat to arrive at the final figure
19:08:44 <tumbleweed> nattie: yes
19:09:01 <tumbleweed> if DLange is OK with expensive shirts, the shirts you've found fit
19:09:02 <nattie> i think we may be verbosely agreeing but talking aroudn each other
19:09:19 <highvoltage> nattie: probably necessary since we're unlikely to claim any VAT back
19:09:30 <tamo> tumbleweed: with VAT it is R193ish
19:09:31 <highvoltage> (as assumed at one point)
19:09:46 <tumbleweed> tamo: that should be fine
19:09:50 <tumbleweed> assuming 350 shirts is enough
19:09:53 <tumbleweed> it seems proably enough?
19:09:56 <nattie> *nods* better to estimate with vat
19:10:04 <tumbleweed> nattie: we have to
19:10:06 <tamo> tumbleweed: Ok I can amke taht work, then we go for normal Cotton
19:10:20 <tamo> tumbleweed: sorry typing fast
19:10:28 <nattie> tumbleweed: yes.  always better to make a pessimistic assumption
19:10:30 <tumbleweed> #agreed cotton shirts are the only option that fit the budget
19:10:38 <tumbleweed> nattie: no, seriously, we aren't going to get any VAT back
19:10:43 <tumbleweed> see the agenda
19:10:46 <DLange> tumbleweed: I think we're too late to discuss this still. I think they are pricey but we need to order this week or we'll have no shirts at all.
19:10:49 <nattie> tumbleweed: i know
19:10:57 <tamo> tumbleweed: long sleeve or short, some say long aothers short in emails I have seen.
19:11:00 <nattie> i meant as a gneral principe
19:11:21 <tumbleweed> I think everyone prefers short
19:11:26 <tumbleweed> it's the norm
19:11:34 <tumbleweed> even if it is winter :P
19:11:42 <tamo> tumbleweed: I am trying to swing it without VAT but most have to pay it
19:11:48 <moray_> short, yes
19:11:58 <moray_> 350 may be a bit too little, but if we do more we can plan to sell the surplus
19:12:01 <moray_> to not increasing the net budget
19:12:15 <tumbleweed> yeah, and there was a little headroom there anyway
19:12:29 <tamo> tumbleweed: Perfect R193ish with Vat included, 3 colours and T's
19:12:32 <DLange> do we do kids sizes too this year?
19:12:35 <tamo> tumbleweed: short sleeve
19:12:39 <nattie> DLange: we're aiming to
19:12:40 <highvoltage> oh my we're still on item 1.1
19:12:45 <tamo> DLange: nattie was asking taht
19:12:53 <nattie> DLange: but those will be for sale i think
19:12:53 <olasd> highvoltage: we did some of the bottom ones before this one though
19:13:10 <tumbleweed> yeah, we need to move on
19:13:13 <tamo> DLange: with the swag items, we can see if we can get some cash from there
19:13:20 <DLange> tamo: the target is 170 ZAR _incl. VAT
19:13:22 <tumbleweed> if we want to do some hoodies for sale we must decide how much
19:13:36 <DLange> how many too :)
19:13:41 <tumbleweed> that
19:13:44 <tamo> DLange: not possible sorry, I can still work on R170
19:13:51 <nattie> hoodies for sale can be commissioned later on though?
19:14:06 <tamo> nattie:  nope we need to do them with the T's
19:14:09 <tumbleweed> DLange: tamo: I don't know what you two are talking about
19:14:10 <nattie> ok
19:14:22 <nattie> zippy or non zippy?
19:14:23 <tumbleweed> oh, shirt prices still
19:14:33 <tumbleweed> DLange: where did you get 170 icnlusive from?
19:14:34 <DLange> tumbleweed: tamo is on R170+VAT and that's over budget
19:14:43 <nattie> i would prefer a zippy hoodie
19:14:44 <DLange> tumbleweed: from your calculation
19:14:51 <Mithrandir> nattie: yes, me too.
19:14:55 <DLange> we do everything gross now as we can't offset VAT
19:14:58 <tamo> DLange: no, it works out to be R193
19:14:59 <Mithrandir> (if I'm getting one at all)
19:14:59 <tumbleweed> DLange: that calculation was ex not inclusive
19:15:07 <nattie> and not purple, but that's my own bias
19:15:09 <tumbleweed> err other way around
19:15:11 <tamo> Iclusing Vat
19:15:18 <tamo> Including VAT
19:15:39 <moray_> hard to tell how many people would buy hoodies, depends a lot on price and final quality
19:15:42 <tumbleweed> DLange: see the *1.14?
19:15:53 <DLange> tumbleweed: ack, sorry
19:16:00 <tamo> DLange: people in SA have businesses and they ahve to have a VAT number and pay VAT.
19:16:05 <indiebio_> nattie: we could probably buy a hoodie in the shop and get it embroidered. I should find out if that could work. Then we just hack it during DebCamp/DebConf
19:16:10 <tumbleweed> tamo: we can stop talking about VAT now :)
19:16:19 <tamo> tumbleweed: YES PLEASE :)
19:16:26 <tamo> Ok hoodies
19:16:45 <tamo> tumbleweed: How many, what colours?
19:16:48 <tumbleweed> we've already 3/4 of the way through the meeting hour, and we're on agenda item 1
19:16:58 <tumbleweed> I don't know if we can make a useful hoodie decision here and now
19:17:03 <nattie> we could get the printing on the back of the hoodies that goes on the front of the tshirts
19:17:06 <gwolf> (sounds like we are discussing... bikeshed colors? ;-) )
19:17:11 <nattie> it's what i did when i organised show stash recently
19:17:27 <moray_> we should try to avoid having a pile of hoodies left over, though
19:17:33 <DLange> we can price them, put up a web page of people to pre-order and then order them for delivery at the beginning of DebConf
19:17:39 <nattie> how long do they take to produce?
19:17:47 <moray_> (whereas for t-shirts the unit price is lower and we need a large quantity anyway)
19:17:48 <tamo> tumbleweed: ok no problem taht we can confirm by nex week
19:17:52 <tumbleweed> DLange: yeah, I'd be tempted to do something like that. People are really lazy, of course
19:18:09 <moray_> that was done before for jackets
19:18:10 <indiebio_> # indiebio to check with her sewing shop what the deal is with impromptu logo embroidery
19:18:17 <moray_> (though with the jackets the sizing then turned out to be wrong...)
19:18:18 <nattie> moray_: the nicaraguan raincoats?
19:18:21 <moray_> yeah
19:18:25 <tumbleweed> #action indiebio to check with her sewing shop what the deal is with impromptu logo embroidery
19:18:36 <indiebio_> lol, thanks tumbleweed
19:18:37 <tumbleweed> #action decide on a hoodie plan
19:18:45 <tumbleweed> #topic bags
19:18:54 <nattie> so i like option 4a for bags
19:18:59 <nattie> if that's the least-purple one
19:19:04 <nattie> with the mustard flap
19:19:25 <tamo> nattie: my choice is 4b :)
19:19:53 <moray_> the proposed ones looked nice, though previously when not in budget surplus we did simple canvas bags
19:20:01 <tumbleweed> tamo: those have budgetry problems too
19:20:22 <tumbleweed> we ahve bugeted R68,500
19:20:25 <tumbleweed> ah, but not 350
19:20:26 <tamo> tumbleweed: why we are working on 250
19:20:29 <tumbleweed> my thumbsucks don't work
19:20:58 <tumbleweed> tamo: are those prices VAT-inclusive?
19:21:06 <tamo> tumbleweed: people aren't getting 2 bags are they?
19:21:17 <tamo> Yes including VAT
19:21:19 <tumbleweed> tamo: I'm agreeing with you that I made a mistake
19:21:38 <tumbleweed> yes, that comes to R62500 which is fine
19:21:41 <tamo> tumbleweed: ah I see, ok great, my heart skipped a beat there
19:22:27 <tamo> tumbleweed: Yup they are under budget :)
19:22:45 * gwolf disappears, as almost-always, mid-meeting
19:22:52 <gwolf> o/
19:22:58 <DLange> o/
19:23:09 <indiebio_> I'm wondering if we need bags this year, if we shouldn't go for simple canvas bags (like the shopping bags). especially if we're in the red, budget wise, overall
19:23:10 <highvoltage> \o
19:23:11 <nattie> ciao gunnarrrrrrrrrr
19:23:20 <tamo> tumbleweed: My suggestion with colours is maybe, do some different ones, ie: Plain, Multi coloured etc
19:23:42 <DLange> we need bags (sponsor perk) but what type they are is not committed anywhere
19:23:42 <nattie> that's something we can thnk about outside the meeting though
19:23:49 <highvoltage> indiebio_: sounds like a good idea to have the option available if needed for a worst case
19:23:50 <tumbleweed> all the options look good
19:23:54 <gwolf> Bags are always nice... but they are not IMO a must-have. Before DC12, we basically never had fancy bags.
19:23:55 <moray_> indiebio_: I think we promised bags towards sponsors, but yes, before we cut costs by doing shopping bag type ones (canvas/cotton/whatever)
19:24:05 <gwolf> anyway, I said I'm away, so away I go
19:24:06 <tumbleweed> our budget also isn't under crazy pressure
19:24:07 <gwolf> o/
19:24:18 <tumbleweed> just unexpected expenses starting to appear
19:24:23 <tumbleweed> but also some late sponsors
19:24:24 <indiebio_> just a thought. I don't have a strong opinion either way
19:24:29 <azeem_> IME sponsors care much more about shirts than bags
19:24:30 <tamo> tumbleweed: these bags are Laptop bags, good quality and a decent price
19:24:43 <azeem_> after the swag is thrown out, anyway
19:24:44 <tumbleweed> yeah, getting nice swag from a conference is rare
19:25:03 <tumbleweed> I see no reason to ditch the bags
19:25:11 <tumbleweed> unless we replaced them with hoodies :P
19:25:14 <DLange> when do we need to order the bags?
19:25:17 <tamo> tumbleweed: I ahve swag prices too, and we don't need all teh swag. We have up to R600 budget for swag
19:25:24 <azeem_> I'm carrying my DC15 bag almost daily though
19:25:28 <azeem_> DC16 - never
19:25:37 <tamo> DLange: as soon as
19:25:38 <moray_> right, some I never use
19:25:48 <DLange> tamo: and the real deadline is? :)
19:25:54 <moray_> and from non-DebConf conferences I normally throw away (or equivalent) the conference bag
19:25:57 <tamo> DLange: tomorrow
19:26:01 <tumbleweed> DLange: is there a reason to delay?
19:26:12 <DLange> not anymore
19:26:25 <indiebio_> azeem: you should see my DC16 bag, it's almost worn through :) different strokes
19:26:32 <tamo> DLange: so we get them by DebCamp
19:26:41 <DLange> So I'd say go for the bags.
19:26:51 <tumbleweed> indiebio_: that'd be dc15
19:26:54 <olasd> indiebio_: time travel is real!
19:26:55 <tumbleweed> +1 go for them
19:26:56 <tumbleweed> they're great
19:27:00 <tumbleweed> I like the 2nd liner
19:27:09 <tumbleweed> 4b is also a nice outside, but really all of them are fine
19:27:10 <tamo> Bags are great and a keep sake if made well, the price is very reasonable
19:27:11 <nattie> yes, the 2nd liner is much better
19:27:22 <indiebio_> lol, oh man. sleep deprivation beats any drug out there
19:27:28 * olasd patpats indiebio_
19:27:31 <moray_> I'm assuming they're sized for standard Debian 12" Thinkpads? :p
19:27:39 <tamo> tumbleweed: perfect yes 2nd liner is awesome, comes in different prints
19:27:48 <DLange> We should also think about whether we want to send sponsors' stuff again. It was an awefull mess at DC15 so we either organize this well this year or ditch it completely.
19:27:53 <tamo> moray_: actually 15"
19:27:59 <DLange> But not the last-minute mess of last year...
19:28:07 <tumbleweed> ok, we're drifting
19:28:12 <moray_> (ok, too big to be likely for me to use then)
19:28:16 <tumbleweed> #action tamo to order bags. With teh 2nd liner
19:28:23 <tumbleweed> #topic statuses
19:28:25 <tamo> tumbleweed: Ok so can I go on the T's and the bags?
19:28:26 <tumbleweed> catering
19:28:29 <DLange> moray_: nattie can sew it smaller :)
19:28:59 <tumbleweed> tamo: we'll have to figure out sizing breakdown for you. Talk to nattie?
19:29:25 <tamo> tumbleweed: thanks DLange did send me sizing, but I'll speak to both
19:29:44 <nattie> grand
19:29:53 <tumbleweed> and video team will need to approve sizes for them
19:29:54 <moray_> nattie: make sure the standard number inflation happens then
19:30:00 <tamo> DLange: was that the breakdown or has it changed?
19:30:02 <moray_> tumbleweed: doesn't really work that way
19:30:03 <DLange> I can get you an update on the size chart but so can nattie. We use the same data source :)
19:30:14 <moray_> tumbleweed: it's better just to do video team numbers scaled from the overall distribution
19:30:15 <tumbleweed> moray_: why not? last year it did
19:30:23 <tamo> DLange: haha ok thanks guys, nattie
19:30:46 <tumbleweed> moray_: and make sure the outliers are accommodated
19:30:46 <moray_> tumbleweed: I'm pretty sure last year it wasn't based directly off video team requests either
19:31:05 <tumbleweed> moray_: you're taking us off-topic
19:31:07 <tumbleweed> this is not catering
19:31:23 <tumbleweed> I'm trying to get t-shirts moved out of the meeting
19:31:48 <tumbleweed> let's try again
19:31:51 <tumbleweed> catering
19:31:53 <nattie> aren't we on a completelyd ifferent topic?
19:32:13 <DLange> moray_: It was based off the overall distribution and a guesstimate on the video team size. This year video is much earlier in its orga though. There was nobody ready to be asked when we needed to order for DC15.
19:32:18 <tamo> tumbleweed: did you see my email with Neerasha
19:32:31 <tamo> tumbleweed: as well as Peters response?
19:32:48 <tumbleweed> if you haven't all seen the long discussion we had on friday night, here's a precis
19:32:51 <tumbleweed> tamo: yes
19:33:15 <tumbleweed> TBC are probably too expensive (it'd be a fight to afford them, on both sides)
19:33:26 <tamo> tumbleweed: Peter is sending the queries to Peter at UCT, who deals with C3
19:33:43 <tumbleweed> cafe quencha would be affordable, nad wouldn't require security in molly blackburn (which we may have to pay for)
19:33:44 <tamo> tumbleweed: yup I gathered that after Fri night
19:34:06 <tumbleweed> C3 should come in way under budget, but they won't give us a quote
19:34:08 <tumbleweed> and we don't know why
19:34:18 <tamo> tumbleweed: Yes they are within our Budget as well as would do Tea and Coffee free of charge
19:34:24 <tumbleweed> but we're having a meetnig with CMC people on friday, nad may be able to solve that
19:34:37 <tumbleweed> nothing else to discuss here?
19:35:12 <tamo> tumbleweed: Yup I am thinking that too. I would still like to see the Quote before we make that assumption. They are seeming to be difficult to work with
19:35:24 <tumbleweed> tamo: everything at UCT is difficult to work with :/
19:35:47 <tumbleweed> #topic status - registration
19:35:57 <tamo> tumbleweed: LOL yup that's why I lost my nerve a little today hhaha had to tell myself to breath :)
19:36:20 <tumbleweed> nattie?
19:36:28 <highvoltage> tamo: yell if you need backup
19:36:52 <moray_> tumbleweed: what are the reconfirmed numbers / new registrations since then?
19:36:53 <tamo> highvoltage: thanks I def will :)
19:36:58 <nattie> we're fine!  i believe almost everyone is reconfirmed. room assignments will start soon
19:37:05 <olasd> yay rooms
19:37:34 <tumbleweed> moray_: 237 reconfirmed people
19:37:41 <Mithrandir> are folks just randomly assigned to rooms?  I didn't see a "pick a roommate" thing in the registration thing
19:37:50 <nattie> Mithrandir: single rooms.
19:37:57 <bremner> imaginary roommates.
19:38:02 <DLange> and comments field if you want to share a room
19:38:04 <nattie> if you have a strong preference to be near/not near someone, let us know
19:38:07 <olasd> the BEST roommates!
19:38:07 <DLange> (as in move beds)
19:38:08 <Mithrandir> nattie: ooh
19:38:11 * highvoltage picks bremner for his imaginary roommate
19:38:12 <nattie> (maill registration or whatever)
19:38:23 <Mithrandir> in that case, I don't care particularly much.
19:38:31 <moray_> nattie: you sure you want everyone to mail, rather than get a field added?
19:38:46 <DLange> Mithrandir will be in the NOC fixing issues anyways :)
19:38:47 <nattie> i dpn
19:38:51 <tumbleweed> moray_: there is a field and has been from the beginning
19:38:59 <tumbleweed> nobody used it correctly, but wth :)
19:39:06 <nattie> i don;t really expect people to care that strongly except those bringing +1s
19:39:33 <tumbleweed> moving on then
19:39:37 <moray_> tumbleweed: "Usernames of my family members, who have registered separately "?
19:39:46 <tumbleweed> moray_: and all the related fields
19:39:49 <nattie> tumbleweed: i totally used it correctly.  i said something very rude about the head of participant assistance1
19:39:56 <tumbleweed> nattie: so did I :)
19:40:00 <nattie> !
19:40:03 <tumbleweed> moray_: that's the one for if your +1 has registered separately
19:40:19 <tumbleweed> but you should still declare that you are bringing a +1
19:40:28 <moray_> tumbleweed: yes, it appears I did declare that from the start
19:40:45 <tumbleweed> #topic status - network, video
19:40:57 <moray_> (though I'm not really "bringing a +1", unless I am also being brought as a +1)
19:41:19 <tumbleweed> (which is why the form is complicated, and people were confused)
19:41:21 <nattie> moray_: you are, and the registration team is aware
19:41:55 <Mithrandir> ok, on the network side we've established contact both with central IT and given them our rider, but not heard back yet.  It's not completely clear what process they want, if it's ginggs acting as our spokesperson or something else.
19:42:49 <Mithrandir> we've offered to do a video conference with them, but we'll work it out.
19:42:51 <moray_> will someone local meet them again to chase up, if necessary?
19:43:08 <tumbleweed> moray_: that's ginggs
19:43:13 <moray_> great
19:43:13 <Mithrandir> yes, ginggs is local
19:43:14 <tumbleweed> and me, if I have to be
19:43:35 <nattie> tumbleweed: do you teleport otherwise?
19:43:40 <tumbleweed> yep
19:43:46 <tumbleweed> as far from UCT as possible
19:43:47 <nattie> awesome
19:44:00 <Mithrandir> so I'm reasonably confident we'll have internet and stuff.
19:44:05 <tumbleweed> nobody is speaking up from video
19:44:10 <Mithrandir> I don't have anything on the video side.
19:44:11 <tumbleweed> so, what I know is: olasd is working on shipping
19:44:18 <tumbleweed> nobody wants to do carnet shipping
19:44:22 <tumbleweed> (except us)
19:44:33 <tumbleweed> I'm trying to find a local company that will do that
19:44:45 <DLange> and Schenker for $4k :)
19:44:53 <tumbleweed> indiebio_, ginggs, and I met with the venues AV people today
19:44:55 <tumbleweed> they want money
19:45:00 <tumbleweed> but otherwise, things look fine
19:45:03 <moray_> I have a vague recollection we once paid for someone to travel with excess luggage (or equivalent)
19:45:29 <nattie> it's the import charges that add up
19:45:33 <tumbleweed> pretty sure bdale carried the laptops to dc11 (but that was just one suitcase)
19:45:46 <tumbleweed> I remember him missing a flight because of it
19:45:48 <highvoltage> looking at the size of the shipments, that probably wouldn't work out so well
19:46:01 <tumbleweed> 5 big cases
19:46:06 <tumbleweed> two people could share them :P
19:46:20 <moray_> yeah -- film crews do do it this way
19:46:27 <tumbleweed> and at the price that these carnet companies want, you and I could go get them
19:46:30 <moray_> lots of cases and airport trolleys
19:47:16 <tumbleweed> #topic status debian day
19:47:22 <tumbleweed> indiebio_
19:47:29 <indiebio_> yo
19:47:42 <indiebio_> I'm about to start working on it
19:48:00 <indiebio_> I thought about what you said about talks, I will submit talks as suggested.
19:48:23 <indiebio_> I do think we shouldn't have full day talks either way, more like 3 to 4, the rest hacks and workshops and festivities
19:48:52 <tumbleweed> yeah, otherwise we need to get lots of talks submitted :)
19:48:59 <indiebio_> I sent the email to sponsors-team asking about involvement of local organisations who can't afford e.g. Silver level sponsorship
19:49:06 <highvoltage> is it going to be the saturday or whole weekend?
19:49:14 <indiebio_> and my plan is to go visit all my peeps in person in the next week until DebConf
19:49:36 <indiebio_> my deadline is almost reached (we missed it, got an extention, but all is proceeding at full steam)
19:49:59 <tumbleweed> ok
19:50:47 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: I assume the whole weekend
19:50:58 <indiebio_> highvoltage: whole weekend, but Saturday and Sunday will have different flavours. I'm open to what you all want, share your thoughts on https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf16/DebianDayMessy
19:51:06 <indiebio_> or inbox me or -team
19:51:19 <highvoltage> indiebio_: cool
19:51:23 <DLange> indiebio_: did you get back to the 3D printer folks I introduced to you?
19:51:32 <indiebio_> Saturday more festive, expo-like, Sunday more technical, was my thoughts, but either way
19:51:56 <tumbleweed> and we have to fit a debconf opening in somewhere
19:52:01 <tumbleweed> unless we leave that to monday
19:52:05 <indiebio_> yes DLange the sponsor guys? My favourite local open hardware guy made himself available to assist, introduced them today
19:52:15 <DLange> great
19:52:17 <indiebio_> tumbleweed: I was thinking sunday evening for that?
19:52:26 <DLange> I'd love to see some hardware on the open weekend
19:52:34 <tumbleweed> indiebio_: that works
19:52:35 <indiebio_> but that depends on how DebConf oldies want things done.
19:52:44 <tumbleweed> yeah, talk to the content team :)
19:52:50 <highvoltage> both have pros and cons. if it's on sunday evening then it might give some people who stay late a better taste about what debconf is about
19:52:54 <moray_> normally better to have the opening once debian-day guests are away
19:52:59 <indiebio_> DLange: that's my hustle for the next few weeks. I am doing this solely for the hardware. Heh.
19:53:09 <moray_> we sometimes had two openings
19:54:03 <indiebio_> so... and this is just an opinion, I was thinking a very open, public minded plenary on Sunday eve, (maybe bdale?) and then a very technical, hell-yeah we're awesome plenary on Monday morning.
19:54:09 <indiebio_> launch it twice, so to speak :D
19:54:14 <moray_> sure
19:54:32 <tumbleweed> heh
19:54:44 <wendar> indiebio_: we're quite open to how the open weekend is scheduled
19:54:59 <moray_> for the typical local-team opening with information and in-jokes, better once it's only the relevant people around
19:55:04 <wendar> indiebio_: I was just drafting an email to start asking about it
19:55:08 <indiebio_> my main concern here is I can go balls-to-the-wall on this, but I'm terrified of people going oooooh-noooo, this is not how things are done.
19:55:16 <indiebio_> ok, cool
19:55:21 <wendar> indiebio_: it sounds like we should create an Open Weekend session type
19:55:26 <indiebio_> I'm almost on top of this, promise :)
19:55:29 <moray_> haha
19:55:45 <moray_> better than the open day often is at this stage ;)
19:55:46 <wendar> indiebio_: what's the best way to have a conversation about it?
19:55:51 <indiebio_> wendar: tumbleweed  and I thought the speakers could just make a note in the notes section. I'm easy either way
19:55:58 <indiebio_> wendar: email please
19:56:23 <indiebio_> we can do one-on-one and I will summarise in a wiki and send a summary email to -team to limit traffic, if that's fine?
19:56:23 <wendar> indiebio_: would a phone call where you talk through all your ideas be helpful?
19:56:33 <wendar> indiebio_: like, a kind of brainstorming session?
19:56:38 <indiebio_> nope. I can't talk, my times are crazy at present. email please
19:56:51 <wendar> indiebio_: ok, we're flexible
19:57:07 <wendar> indiebio_: and really phone calls would be odd for debian folks, just wanted to offer :)
19:57:10 * indiebio_ is, crazy, finishing a house, a PhD and a research project at the same time. as well as DebConf.
19:57:15 <wendar> yup
19:57:26 <indiebio_> I love email.
19:57:33 <wendar> indiebio_: do you want us to offer you some talks from the regular submissions?
19:57:43 <wendar> indiebio_: or, do you have a pretty good idea of what you want?
19:57:52 <indiebio_> a bit of both?
19:57:59 <wendar> indiebio_: like, bdale submitted one on rockets that might be awesome for open weekend
19:58:05 <indiebio_> I have a good idea but I'm also fine with what you want.
19:58:13 <wendar> indiebio_: yup, mixture sounds good
19:58:20 <indiebio_> I love bdale, he'll be awesome. and I never responded to his mail
19:58:38 <wendar> indiebio_: actually, I'm more thinking we'd just give you first dibs on a few that seem like a good fit for the open weekend
19:59:01 <wendar> indiebio_: and, we can schedule them normally if they don't seem right for open weekend
19:59:06 <indiebio_> I want a mix of local and international, and I haven't spoken to the local guys yet. And SA people are shy, believe it or not. I need one on ones with most of them, and that needs time.
19:59:11 <indiebio_> yeah
19:59:26 <highvoltage> tumbleweed: request to promote 4.3 to next topic (I reluctantly have to go to bed soon to wake up super early)
19:59:28 <olasd> could all this be arranged off-meeting?
19:59:39 <moray_> wendar: the only thing there is that some people won't arrive until after saturday talks happened, so you need to discuss with speakers if they are happy for earlier scheduling
19:59:40 <olasd> high5voltage
19:59:45 <indiebio_> I was thinking if people want to talk in DebConf, then they do that, and if they want to talk during Open weekend, then we do that.
19:59:46 <wendar> olasd: yup, just laying some quick groundwork for it
19:59:53 <indiebio_> olasd: tumbleweed yeah, let's end meeting?
19:59:56 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: ack
20:00:05 <tumbleweed> indiebio_: there are several agenda items left
20:00:12 <indiebio_> ok, move on then :)
20:00:18 <tumbleweed> but yes, let's send this discussion out of the meeting
20:00:38 <tumbleweed> #topic sprints and schedule
20:00:40 <tumbleweed> kind of related
20:00:43 <tumbleweed> so, not a bad call, highvoltage
20:01:01 <tumbleweed> you're putting up sprint wiki pages, right?
20:01:11 <nattie> VIDEOTEAM SPRINT
20:01:12 <highvoltage> I didn't make this meeting topic, but I assume it covers debcamp as well
20:01:20 <indiebio_> #action indiebio and wendar to talk Open Day schedule (email)
20:01:39 <tumbleweed> nattie: unavoidable
20:01:49 <indiebio_> #action indiebio to follow up on ShowMeBox emails
20:01:50 <highvoltage> I've been meaning/trying to talk to wendar/larjona but the universe doing everything in its power to distract me this week
20:01:56 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: debcapm is the most sprinty bit of debconf, yes
20:02:15 <highvoltage> (see I can't even English anymore)
20:02:32 <tumbleweed> we have been at this for 90 mnis. We're all wrecks
20:02:44 <highvoltage> wendar: but I see the content type is in wafer now,
20:03:02 <wendar> highvoltage: I didn't add it, someone else must have
20:03:20 <wendar> highvoltage: we will need it at some point, so makes sense
20:03:27 <moray_> maybe someone could fill in some if there are ones clearly implied from stated debcamp plans
20:03:29 <highvoltage> wendar: should the sprints requests be summarized on the Sprints namespace on the debian wiki, or on the debconf wiki?
20:04:04 <wendar> highvoltage: I'd look at past years and follow that
20:04:09 <moray_> perhaps better to use the debian one, with a debconf wiki page that gives the dates and points there
20:04:19 <moray_> but I think often we didn't produce this information at all
20:04:21 <wendar> highvoltage: i.e. follow what people expect
20:04:30 <indiebio_> we also need to finalise start and end times, for UCT venues, perhaps, tumbleweed?
20:04:56 <highvoltage> wendar: ok, I'll check through everything tomorrow afternoon, post something that I think looks sane and simple to the list so that people can weigh in before larjona announces?
20:05:06 <tumbleweed> indiebio_: yes, I think the content team has a schedule in mind, they just have to wafer it
20:05:09 <tumbleweed> which is 8am-6pm
20:05:12 <tumbleweed> err 10am-6pm
20:05:41 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: +1
20:06:25 <highvoltage> ok, I didn't make the topic but I know what to do so from me EOF
20:06:30 <tumbleweed> #action highvoltage to post a plan and announce sprint lists on the wiki
20:06:47 <tumbleweed> #topic welcome mail
20:06:54 <nattie> we're working on it
20:06:57 <tumbleweed> yays
20:07:04 <tumbleweed> and you'll get airport photos, when, you know :0
20:07:07 <tumbleweed> :)
20:07:11 <nattie> oh i know
20:07:14 <nattie> do i ever
20:07:34 <moray_> tumbleweed: don't forget to photograph the special interrogation rooms...
20:07:35 <tumbleweed> anything else to talk about there?
20:07:40 <nattie> not atm
20:07:45 <nattie> let's move on
20:07:50 <tumbleweed> #topic general announcements
20:07:59 <tumbleweed> cate: this was yours?
20:08:05 <nattie> cate's not here, man
20:08:12 <tumbleweed> I was wondering
20:08:48 <tumbleweed> does anybody know what this topic is?
20:08:49 <nattie> anyone got anything to say?
20:09:02 <tumbleweed> #topic volunteers
20:09:49 <tumbleweed> not sure what we're talking about here, either
20:09:50 <nattie> <bwh> I volunteer to ask if the meeting is over yet
20:10:02 <tumbleweed> but there's a sub-item to put day trips onto the wiki
20:10:05 <highvoltage> someone (I forgot who) in video team asked about system to be used for volunteers
20:10:08 <highvoltage> might be related to that
20:10:11 <moray_> right
20:10:18 <tumbleweed> yeah, we talked about that in the video team meeting, briefly
20:10:33 <moray_> generally we have local volunteers + conference-time foreign volunteers
20:10:36 <moray_> video team can use both
20:10:48 <Mithrandir> ok, I need to go, talk to y'all later.
20:10:51 <moray_> for both groups you should try to organise some kind of recruitment/allocation
20:10:52 <tumbleweed> yep
20:10:55 <tamo> tumbleweed: day trips are on dumbassman did them?
20:10:58 <tumbleweed> cheers Mithrandir
20:11:10 <DLange> o/ Mithrandir
20:11:10 <tumbleweed> tamo: right, that's what I thought
20:11:20 <tumbleweed> broken link, or someone is confused
20:11:34 <tamo> tumbleweed: I'll ask him to amend them and work with him, to update
20:11:34 <indiebio_> I added the daytrips thing from previous meetings, when I was writing up minutes.
20:11:39 <indiebio_> in a rush
20:11:48 <indiebio_> if it's sorted, it's sorted
20:11:52 <tumbleweed> it's sorted
20:12:02 <indiebio_> cool
20:12:03 <tumbleweed> I think we're done
20:12:06 <tumbleweed> #topic any othe rbusiness
20:12:10 <tamo> tumbleweed: I have sent Robben Island and Aquilla emails to find out about prebooking etc
20:12:28 <tumbleweed> tamo: oh, great
20:12:53 <indiebio_> everyone needs to tell their every people that DebConf is happening, that is all.
20:12:56 <tamo> tumbleweed: Yes I am putting swag things up tonight
20:13:22 <tumbleweed> indiebio_: and get them to come to debconf and volunteer :)
20:13:25 <tumbleweed> or give a talk
20:13:38 <tumbleweed> tamo: great
20:13:41 <tumbleweed> #endmeeting