18:00:10 <nattie> #startmeeting
18:00:10 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Sep  6 18:00:10 2021 UTC.  The chair is nattie. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:00:10 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:00:29 <bittin> yep
18:00:32 <nattie> #link https://deb.li/dc21meet agenda as always
18:00:39 <nattie> #topic roll call
18:00:46 * bittin is here
18:00:48 <nattie> summon your small bread now
18:01:11 <terceiro> I'm sort of here
18:01:22 <nattie> sort of hi, terceiro
18:01:35 <rmateus[m]> Hi
18:01:39 <pwaring> o/
18:01:41 <terceiro> hi :)
18:01:41 <tumbleweed> Hi
18:02:11 <nattie> i'll give a few more moments on roll call for latecomers
18:03:14 <highvoltage> ohi
18:03:23 <nattie> eh, long enough.  latecomers can come in when there's applause and are requested to take aisle seats only
18:03:43 <nattie> #topic tear-down: what remains?
18:04:14 <nattie> #info the t-shirts for Canada were delayed on their way to the local distributor
18:04:40 <nattie> it took a *whole* lot of chasing, but our local distributor for Canada finally has the shirts and is sending them on!
18:05:10 <bittin> yeah saw that they wrote a message some days ago
18:05:16 <nattie> there are also a few individual shipments that have not yet reached their recipients, but we're aware of those
18:05:38 <nattie> i believe the shirts for Africa are also yet to go out
18:05:43 <tumbleweed> waiting for pins
18:05:57 <nattie> #info shirts for Africa are awaiting pins so that they can go out
18:06:17 <nattie> otherwise, shirts are now shipped and should mostly have been received already
18:06:17 <terceiro> pins?
18:06:25 <terceiro> extra swag?
18:06:30 * joeDoe is waiting for applause to take his aisle seat
18:06:32 <bittin> terceiro, yeah
18:06:46 * nattie applauds joeDoe
18:07:02 <highvoltage> terceiro: the pins are a dependency for the voodoo dolls to work
18:07:08 <terceiro> haha
18:07:10 <joeDoe> thank you
18:07:40 <nattie> that's it for shirts - how about accounting?
18:07:44 <nattie> tumbleweed: to you
18:08:09 <tumbleweed> waiting for all the swag expenses to be made, there are still some outstanding shipments, as above
18:08:22 <tumbleweed> then we should be able to wrap up reimbursements
18:08:45 <nattie> #info reimbursements should be wrapped up soon, pending outstanding shipments
18:08:45 <highvoltage> tumbleweed: thanks for taking care of the DC21 accounting, btw!
18:08:47 <tumbleweed> sponsor invoicing and collection often takes months / years, so probably won't wait for that to wind up the books
18:09:04 <nattie> indeed, three cheers for tumbleweed!
18:09:11 <nattie> (which can be done outside the meeting)
18:09:27 <bittin> yeah thanks tumbleweed for taking care of the expenses and the invoices
18:09:32 <tumbleweed> that's all from me
18:09:40 <nattie> #info wrapping up accounts will not depend on sponsor invoicing and collection
18:09:45 <nattie> how about video?
18:10:03 <bittin> uploaded on https://meetings-archive.debian.net/pub/debian-meetings/2021/DebConf21/ not sure if its all or if we miss any?
18:10:07 <tumbleweed> videos were re-encoded to get the right fonts in title screens
18:10:15 <tumbleweed> lots are still sitting in final review
18:10:20 <tumbleweed> some volunteers to help with that would be nice
18:10:26 <tumbleweed> https://sreview.debian.net/overview
18:10:38 <nattie> #info there are still many videos waiting for final review; volunteers welcome
18:10:46 <bittin> tumbleweed, could help with that later during the week
18:11:19 <nattie> #topic what went well/what went less well at DC21
18:11:21 <joeDoe> me three
18:11:26 <nattie> right, let's have at it
18:11:45 <bittin> other then some talks being a bit delayed, i think everything worked out fine
18:11:47 <highvoltage> hmm, it's kind of weird that I have already forgotten my laundry list of complaints
18:12:20 * nattie notes that some of the traditional events were missing, but those can hopefully make a return next time around
18:12:20 <bittin> and the calendar on stream being glitchy one of the days
18:12:27 <bittin> but i don't have any major complains
18:12:28 <highvoltage> I think the format might need some rethinking if it were to be online again
18:12:42 <highvoltage> (format of the conference, that is)
18:13:33 <nattie> anything else on this?
18:13:42 <nattie> perhaps we can revisit this topic at a later date
18:13:47 <bittin> and some small hickups with loopy getting stuck on a video
18:13:49 <tumbleweed> I feel like it worked as a way for people to showcase projects, but engagement didn't feel as strong as it could have been
18:13:53 <bittin> but i don't have any big complains
18:14:01 <joostvb> i liked the ad hoc poetry event could happen on short notice
18:14:04 <tumbleweed> most talks got enough questions, but there wasn't a huge audience on the streams
18:14:20 <joeDoe> can content issues be raised here or is that for -content?
18:14:20 <highvoltage> I think the online-conference-fatigue is at a peak right now
18:14:27 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: yeah
18:14:39 <highvoltage> (and it also didn't help that it was so shortly after Bullseye release, which wasn't DebConf's fault, at least)
18:14:46 <tumbleweed> and we didn't really do anything to stand out
18:14:58 <highvoltage> (or release team's either, for the record, just bad circumstance)
18:14:58 <tumbleweed> or to encourage socializing / the hallway track
18:15:14 <highvoltage> it was too compressed to encourage socialising
18:15:20 <nattie> yeah, the hallway track did fall by the wayside a bit
18:15:34 <joostvb> debcamp did barely exist
18:15:44 <joostvb> although was announced
18:15:51 <tumbleweed> I think everyone was just wiped out, and we weren't really trying to do anything beyond the minimum required
18:15:58 <highvoltage> yeah
18:16:10 <bittin> yeah people was mostly social during the Bullseye Release / Debian Day
18:16:25 <bittin> and during the conference people where mostly at IRC and Debcamp was mostly 2-3 people
18:16:25 <highvoltage> it felt to me like there was a lack of formal orga too, like it was just the usual people showing up who did their jobs
18:16:38 <tumbleweed> yep
18:16:57 <highvoltage> but no overall planning / vision / thought that went into it
18:16:58 <nattie> actually, i had help from quite a few new-ish people
18:16:59 <tumbleweed> it really needs a team to come in with energy to make change happen
18:17:00 <joostvb> -publicity did good work
18:17:07 <highvoltage> but also, fair enough considering how tired everyone is
18:17:19 <nattie> though perhaps not very visibly to the general public
18:17:22 <highvoltage> s/tired/wiped out/
18:17:34 <joostvb> at poetry event we had a very new person joining, which was pretty awesome
18:17:35 <bittin> yeah mostly publicity/video doing there tasks, to have the thing running
18:17:50 <nattie> (props to the people helping with test calls!)
18:18:25 <highvoltage> nattie: and to the people making the effort to do them in advance :)
18:18:29 <bittin> was my first time helping the video team, so i learned a lot about Jitsi and vogel
18:19:01 <tumbleweed> on the video side, things ran fairly smoothly
18:19:18 <tumbleweed> things were set up in advance (but some things only just in advance)
18:19:27 <tumbleweed> and there were no critical issues during the event
18:19:39 <highvoltage> I didn't like how much we still had to fiddle with the week before DebConf
18:19:39 <tumbleweed> jsut a/v desync, and poor video quality / dropped videos in jitsi
18:19:39 <bittin> yeah only problem i heard was a video with not enough sound on the speakers mic, but boosted it up a bit
18:19:55 <nattie> should this all get info'd, or should we just let the conversation flow?
18:20:05 <highvoltage> it was causing me some stress and it would really be nice if we have things working at least by DebCamp
18:20:06 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: if we hadn't gone to bullseye, I think that would have been closer to 0
18:20:12 <highvoltage> I was kind of surprised that we did go to bullseye
18:20:12 <tumbleweed> well, bullseye and the new etherpad
18:20:23 <highvoltage> since we haven't tested on it in advance at all afaik
18:20:38 <highvoltage> so I suddenly also had a new OBS that I had to deal with some new issues with on the fly
18:20:40 <tumbleweed> there was some testing, but not enough
18:21:06 <tumbleweed> basically poor core video team availability during the bring up
18:21:14 <tumbleweed> and no video team sprints in a while (we've got used to having those)
18:21:22 <joostvb> nattie: un-info-able, i'd guess, fwiw
18:21:39 <nattie> joostvb: yeah, that was my view, thanks for confirming
18:21:46 <bittin> yeah guess its enough its in the logs
18:21:57 <tumbleweed> on the plus side, sreview behaved well, and wouter implemented a/v sync correction during the confernce (thanks for the effort there!)
18:22:01 <highvoltage> I really think we should use whatever we've used on the minidebconf videoteam infrastructure in the 6 months before DebConf. if we want to use a new release then it should be installed there first. it's just too much having to deal with so many changes all of a sudden so late
18:23:16 <highvoltage> and especially on a compressed shedule with few break periods (I still think at least half a day break would've been nice
18:23:19 <highvoltage> )
18:23:34 <tumbleweed> we got some feedback that there wasn't enough video training during the conference
18:23:38 <nattie> yeah, i would have preferred the schedule spread out over more days
18:23:44 <terceiro> yeah I think the schedule format was still exhausting
18:23:50 <tumbleweed> a day off could have been nice
18:24:04 <tumbleweed> but that does risk losing half the audience
18:24:13 <nattie> clearly we should have streamed a daytrip
18:24:14 <tumbleweed> there was clearly a slow drain during the event, too
18:24:21 <olasd> there aren't really any days off, for orga, anyway
18:24:28 <terceiro> Norwegian Slow TV
18:25:03 <terceiro> IMO if we do online again we should think of something very different
18:25:11 <highvoltage> +1
18:25:14 <terceiro> less talks, more spread out, more discussion
18:25:32 <bittin> terceiro, Guldbron :D a swedish tv series where they built a bridge :p
18:25:46 <terceiro> try to find hot topics and incentivize people to come together to discuss them
18:25:46 <terceiro> etc
18:25:51 <highvoltage> terceiro: I thought Fique em casa use Debian was interesting. perhaps not quite good as a DebConf format, but something different at least and it did work quite well in the end
18:25:54 <nattie> *nods*
18:25:54 <tumbleweed> there were a few no-show speakers
18:25:57 <olasd> Ceph moved their online conference to 1 half day a week for a month
18:26:05 <olasd> I think it's an interesting idea
18:26:11 <tumbleweed> not sure if we should have been more proactive in confirming speakers
18:26:22 <terceiro> highvoltage olasd +1
18:26:24 <tumbleweed> (and giving talkmeisters their phone numbers, to ensure they turn up)
18:26:25 <bittin> tumbleweed, i only remember one speaker being gone in Track 1
18:26:46 <bittin> but i think one was gone in Track 2 too
18:26:49 <tumbleweed> IIRC 3 talks didn't happen on the last day
18:26:54 <olasd> yep
18:27:23 <tumbleweed> one of the cancelled talks was a speaker who had submitted a recording, but it was (temporarily) lost
18:27:34 <tumbleweed> so the event got cancelled
18:28:17 <tumbleweed> but given half the events didn't have a talkmeister... not sure that phone number proposal is worth much thought
18:28:58 <pwaring> do we know why speakers didn't turn up? (e.g. thought it was local time not UTC)
18:29:08 <olasd> tumbleweed: well there's always someone to push the buttons
18:29:35 <olasd> although I'm not sure what good getting a call from a random number 5 minutes into your slot will do
18:29:37 <olasd> :P
18:30:20 <terceiro> 1 speaker submitted the recording that got temporarily lost, but didn't realize he was supposed to be in jitsi
18:30:36 <terceiro> 1 speaker had comms issues with the content team
18:31:01 <terceiro> I think those 2 were in the same time slot, by coincidence
18:31:12 <terceiro> I don't remember any other no shows
18:32:12 <tumbleweed> shall we move on?
18:32:18 <nattie> sure
18:32:23 <nattie> #topic handover to Kosovo
18:32:25 <terceiro> let's
18:32:40 <nattie> #topic handover to Kosovo - staffing core teams
18:32:44 <tumbleweed> do we have anyone from the DC22 team here?
18:33:14 <nattie> EnkelenaH[m]: you around?
18:33:24 <tumbleweed> I listed the core teams I think need staffing in the agenda
18:33:30 <nattie> (sorry to drop you in it if this catches you off-guard)
18:33:41 * nattie is delighted to report that registration is fully staffed for DC22!
18:33:55 <bittin> if not maybe this can be a separate meeting later? was just a suggestion from my side (don't think i can help in Kosovo myself as i am not sure if i will have a job or not then still waiting for an answer from https://www.inet.se/ http://dustin.se and some other places
18:34:00 <bittin> so can't promise anything
18:34:27 <nattie> yes, if nobody is currently available, we can revisit the topic later
18:34:44 <nattie> let's just give her a moment to respond, in case she's around
18:34:53 <bittin> i am up for helping out at UmeƄ still if thats a thing later in 2025-2026 and Online for now
18:34:57 <tumbleweed> I'd also suggest the DC22 team have a good look through the feedback discussion above
18:35:14 <olasd> we should probably do a round of framadate or something to set a new recurrent meeting time that would be more amenable to the DC22 team?
18:35:37 <nattie> yeah, though that's a later agenda item
18:36:25 <nattie> although it doesn't look like anyone from Team Kosovo is around just now
18:36:35 <nattie> shall we agree to revisit the staffing topic later?
18:36:43 <olasd> well, yeah
18:36:43 <terceiro> I guess so
18:36:55 <nattie> #agreed the matter of staffing core teams will be revisited later
18:37:06 <nattie> #topic handover to Kosovo - next steps
18:37:19 <nattie> there's the website and the sponsorship brochure
18:37:53 <tumbleweed> they should start on both (with help from the appropriate teams)
18:38:00 <tumbleweed> but again, this needs them
18:38:13 <terceiro> putting up an empty website to begin with is relatively easy
18:38:17 <nattie> the sponsorship brochure could, i guess, be mostly carried over from this year, albeit with different levels as it will hopefully be in person
18:38:26 <tumbleweed> that is how it usually works, yes
18:38:35 <nattie> yeah, all the website needs for the moment is the dates, i suppose
18:38:57 <tumbleweed> a bland website is a good way to get people to think about design
18:39:03 <bittin> there is a wiki page with that on it, for now as a start, but yeah maybe a separate meeting with team kosovo in the future
18:39:11 <bittin> https://wiki.debian.org/DebConf/22
18:40:38 <nattie> so shall we put up something very basic, as a stimulus to get Team Kosovo thinking about design etc?
18:41:05 <tumbleweed> yep
18:41:22 <terceiro> I can do that
18:41:33 <terceiro> it's a chance to finally set up a really minimal website for db
18:41:34 <terceiro> dc
18:41:35 <nattie> #action terceiro to put up a very basic website for DC22
18:41:52 <nattie> #topic meeting schedule
18:42:16 <bittin> also sorry for the last topic: https://www.debconf.org/ dc22 should be added here too
18:42:50 <nattie> so, as suggested, we'll need to do a round of framadate
18:43:07 <nattie> until that's set, shall we set a next meeting some way down the road?
18:43:17 <nattie> (like two or four weeks)
18:44:05 <bittin> (has no opinion as i don't have time to help out next time)
18:44:16 <nattie> (then it's not necessary to tell us)
18:44:29 <tumbleweed> usually we slow things down for a while at this point, yes
18:44:30 <nattie> does anyone have an opinion, though?
18:44:39 <tumbleweed> kind of tempting to get the dc22 team moving, first
18:44:44 <nattie> shall we reconvene in 4 weeks?
18:44:51 <nattie> provisionally, that is
18:45:06 <nattie> if a different time suits Team Kosovo better, that would of course take precedence
18:45:47 <tumbleweed> how about framadating for 2 weeks in the future, and then decide on the upcoming schedule with them?
18:45:53 <nattie> sure
18:45:57 <nattie> anyone want to take that action?
18:45:57 <olasd> +1
18:47:15 <terceiro> *crickets*
18:47:21 <nattie> heh
18:47:32 <nattie> well, tumbleweed suggested it...
18:47:53 * olasd whistles innocently, yes yes tumbleweed suggested it
18:49:03 <nattie> i could set up the framadate if someone else posts to lists about it, if needed
18:49:13 <tumbleweed> sure
18:49:27 <nattie> #action nattie to create the framadate, tumbleweed to post to lists about it
18:49:30 <nattie> there
18:49:33 <nattie> #topic AOB
18:49:55 <joeDoe> sorry to back track...
18:50:02 <nattie> joeDoe: it's AOB so it's fine
18:50:09 <joeDoe> how do you framadate with only one date to choose
18:50:35 <bittin> joeDoe, think the plan is to framadate whole week 38
18:50:37 <joeDoe> I don't understnad what we're asking in the framadate
18:50:46 <joeDoe> ah, got it
18:50:49 <bittin> for the first meeting about Debconf 22 in Kosovo
18:50:51 <nattie> joeDoe: what day/time works for people
18:50:57 <joeDoe> right
18:51:39 <nattie> anything else before i close?
18:52:03 <terceiro> nothing here
18:52:14 <nattie> good enough for me!
18:52:17 <nattie> #endmeeting