18:11:33 <RichiH> #startmeeting
18:11:33 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue Jul 21 18:11:33 2015 UTC.  The chair is RichiH. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:11:33 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:11:35 <tassia> nothing here is ideal, we need to work with what and who we have
18:11:45 <nattie> tassia: point
18:11:47 <RichiH> #info /q zack
18:11:49 <RichiH> erm
18:12:14 <nattie> whoops?
18:12:35 <RichiH> #info IRILL equipment is still in storage, but needs someone reasonably local to pick it up & package. zack is away and can't help on site.
18:12:44 <RichiH> nattie: i wanted to look up when i first poked him
18:12:58 <tassia> who else is local?
18:13:03 <wouter> RichiH: who's in paris?
18:13:22 <tumbleweed> I wonder if zack can point us at other locals?
18:13:32 <wouter> actually, that *is* something that db.d.o can tell us...
18:13:33 <RichiH> tumbleweed: already on it
18:13:34 * wouter checks it out
18:13:40 <RichiH> wouter: already on it
18:14:39 <wouter> logging in to db, searching for DD's in France, and searching on the page for "Paris" yields 18 matches
18:14:55 <RichiH> sylvestre & mehdi seem to be at irill
18:14:58 <h01ger> paris is big and repeatedly gave names of people who work there
18:15:13 <h01ger> and i didnt put them in a publicically logged channel on purpose. sigh.
18:15:22 <RichiH> h01ger: erm, yes
18:15:24 <RichiH> there's that
18:15:33 <RichiH> it's 30C plus in here, sorry
18:15:44 <tassia> h01ger, who do you suggest to be contacted?
18:15:51 <wouter> h01ger: how did we do this in previous years?
18:16:02 <h01ger> tassia: what i told RichiH
18:16:08 <h01ger> wouter: ?
18:16:20 <wouter> "get gear from paris to venue by car"
18:16:27 <wouter> (if we did that at all, of course)
18:16:38 <h01ger> either we shipped or we carried
18:16:41 <nattie> sylvestre isn't at irill anymore, says zack
18:16:49 <wouter> that's what I heard too
18:17:03 <nattie> but let's ask mehdi?
18:17:15 <wouter> someone needs to own that. It's too important.
18:17:20 <h01ger> yes, but he is close enough and this really doesnt need to be solved in a meeting with X people
18:17:28 <p2-mate> RichiH: don't attend from the sauna?
18:17:34 <pollo> worst case we can always rent a car in Germany and do a quick run
18:17:39 <nattie> p2-mate: poor sauna if it's only 30ish
18:17:50 <wouter> I'm way too busy myself (as proven by my failure to even fill out the doodle date for this meeting) otherwise I'd suggest me.
18:17:51 <RichiH> my suggestion is we action the finding of 2 people, with help from zack
18:17:54 <wouter> anyone want to volunteer?
18:18:08 <nattie> just a moment...
18:18:11 <RichiH> so, who owns the _search_?
18:18:12 <p2-mate> nattie: note 'plus' :)
18:18:13 * h01ger suggests to get money and get a shipping company
18:18:24 <tassia> even so, we need someone to go there
18:18:36 <RichiH> h01ger: the gear needs to be found and packaged
18:18:37 <nattie> it's mehdi!
18:18:40 <h01ger> hi mehdi
18:18:45 <wouter> whee
18:18:48 <tassia> does franklin live in paris?
18:18:49 <h01ger> RichiH: oh really???
18:18:56 <nattie> tassia: in the banlieue i think, but near enough
18:19:00 <mehdi> hi everyone!
18:19:06 <h01ger> mehdi: did you join here to help to get the gear from irill to heidelberg?
18:19:06 <RichiH> h01ger: oh really. and that is why "just" shipping is not enough
18:19:17 <RichiH> also, we have had a budget line to ship stuff since march
18:19:18 <h01ger> RichiH:18:19:19 <wouter> RichiH, h01ger: can we keep the bickering out, please? not helpful.
18:19:38 * h01ger goes afk
18:19:49 <pollo> Heidelberg-Paris is 544km, a 5h ride
18:19:55 <mehdi> h01ger: i joined after a friendly request to join :p
18:20:16 <wouter> mehdi: are you reasonably close to paris, and willing/able to help get the gear currently at IRILL to Heidelberg?
18:20:51 <RichiH> mehdi: note that we mainly need you to do the paris-local stuff, with help from zack
18:21:01 <RichiH> transport comes secondary
18:21:04 <nattie> though zack is apparently already en vacances
18:21:23 <mehdi> i can get to irill easily. i may see if i can help, sure.
18:21:34 <wouter> mehdi: iff we can get it from paris to heidelberg by car, that's always useful, but not a requirement (there is *some* budget)
18:21:40 <mehdi> but dunno what is planned and who's involved
18:21:51 <wouter> currently, nothing is planned. That's the main problem :)
18:21:55 <MadameZou> :)
18:21:56 <nattie> i think the main priority is locating the stuff and making sure whoever is holding it knows that we're coming to get it
18:22:12 <h01ger> mehdi: nothing is planned and noone is following up on things. (i'm just standing by)
18:22:29 <mehdi> i see. i already bought my train tickets though
18:22:35 <tvaz> mehdi, we could try to coordinate with mehdi and franklin
18:22:47 <tassia> we can pay for shipping
18:22:53 <tvaz> two people does better i think
18:22:56 <Tincho> if I may interject, I'd recommend shipping
18:23:05 <h01ger> i really really think you stop making complicated plans ("someone might pick it up but we need to find this someone") and plan with a company which will come on day X and which will get handed the boxes from mehdi
18:23:19 <tumbleweed> yep
18:23:30 <Tincho> h01ger: good point
18:23:31 <RichiH> if mehdi agrees to do that and we know what day X is, yah
18:23:38 * tvaz also thinks shipping is a reasonable option
18:23:39 <RichiH> mehdi: any realistic ETA?
18:23:48 <h01ger> RichiH: if you dont know day X you need to define it. (plural you)
18:23:58 <tvaz> how does it ~cost ?
18:24:26 <h01ger> RichiH: why ask mehdi ? he aint video team. (plural) you need to define ETA. debcamp starts on day Y, so day X = Y+-1
18:24:34 <RichiH> tvaz: irrelvant atm, but i have some numbers in my email iirc
18:24:58 <tassia> h01ger, video-team is whoever is in this channel
18:25:01 <mehdi> hrm. don't you want to see other people coming by cars first?
18:25:06 <h01ger> tassia: yeah
18:25:09 <tassia> no one else has volunteered
18:25:10 <wouter> RichiH: we came up with a guesstimate. I thought 2K, you thought less than that. We have 5K budget for ~everything
18:25:13 <tumbleweed> mehdi: it's quite a lot of equipment
18:25:20 <RichiH> wouter: ah, yes
18:25:37 <wouter> so we don't *actually* have numbers
18:25:46 <h01ger> tumbleweed: it was shippable to the RattusRattus as a whole, wasnt it?
18:25:49 <tumbleweed> no, but we need to talk to a shipping company, and the'll tell us :)
18:25:52 <RichiH> mehdi: you said you could see if you could help
18:25:53 <wouter> anyway, point is that we need to organize this *now*. After today is too late, by definition
18:25:58 <tumbleweed> h01ger: he got less than the full set of equipment
18:26:01 <RichiH> can you commit to help and track down the stuff?
18:26:01 <mehdi> tumbleweed, i've already been in the office where all that is stacked :)
18:26:07 <tumbleweed> h01ger: and I think it filled the back of his station wagon
18:26:15 <tumbleweed> mehdi: ah, perfect
18:26:16 <RichiH> #info IRILL inventory at https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/Videoteam/HardwareInventory
18:26:58 <mehdi> iirc, we did ship that in the past to (at least) banja luka, no?
18:27:01 <wouter> mehdi: is it possible for you to coordinate with IRILL to come up with a way to get everything DHL'ed (or whatever) to Heidelberg? Either move it to your place and have DHL pick up there, or go over to IRILL so that everything is nicely packed up and have DHL come over there
18:27:05 <Tincho> shipping 30kg around europe usually costs me 50eur (I do it pretty often)
18:27:10 <mehdi> Sylvestre handled it iirc
18:27:18 <tumbleweed> mehdi: I don't know how this works. Can we expect everything to be there, or do we need to do an advance inspection to check?
18:27:21 <wouter> mehdi: yes, but he doesn't work there anymore, so that's not an option
18:28:07 <mehdi> wouter: he still has the contacts though, for shipping or maybe some other tips
18:28:28 <mehdi> i'll try to contact irill folks and see what i can do
18:28:45 <wouter> okay. Can you report on the list when you have more news?
18:28:50 <mehdi> but delivered to whom? which day?
18:28:55 <mehdi> sure
18:29:02 <wouter> it needs to be delivered to heidelberg
18:29:09 <wouter> RichiH: do you know when we are allowed in at heidelberg?
18:29:18 <wouter> s/heidelberg/the venue/
18:29:20 <mehdi> that's the easy part :p
18:29:26 <mehdi> (the address)
18:29:29 <RichiH> wouter: for storage? always
18:29:58 <mehdi> i guess some day during debcamp is okay enough?
18:30:10 <wouter> mehdi: let's say have it arrive the first day of debcamp
18:30:13 <mehdi> (preferably not the last day?)
18:30:21 <mehdi> k
18:30:22 <wouter> or ~the first day, anyway
18:30:31 <RichiH> we can ship before the first day of debcamp
18:30:39 <wouter> RichiH: do we need to, though?
18:30:42 <tumbleweed> I'd say before the first day,yes
18:30:45 <RichiH> if i know it's underway, i will just ask mr rodine to accept shipment
18:30:47 <tumbleweed> if they have storage
18:30:55 <tumbleweed> I'd say, as soon as possible, so we can get an accurate inventory
18:30:56 <RichiH> tumbleweed: plenty
18:30:59 <h01ger> if it arrives before debcamp, its better
18:31:00 <RichiH> wouter: err on the side of caution
18:31:06 <wouter> okay, fair enough
18:31:11 <h01ger> (if there is storage, but RichiH just said so)
18:31:14 <wouter> let's say two or three days before debcamp, then
18:31:23 <RichiH> mehdi: so can you contact $whoever at IRILL _tomorrow_ and ask them for access, then email the list?
18:31:29 <tumbleweed> h01ger: I was meaning to press comma, there, not enter :)
18:31:34 <maxy> Jugendherberge Heidelberg International
18:31:41 <maxy> DebConf15
18:31:42 <Tincho> wouldn't it be better to have this done as soon as possible?
18:31:43 <mehdi> RichiH: will try
18:31:44 <CarlFK> when I ship things, truck A picks it up, takes it to shipping company, unloaded, sorted, and put on truck B for delivery with other items in the same area.. and they will hold it at the where house for a few days if needed.
18:31:50 <maxy> Tiergartenstraße 5
18:31:51 <RichiH> Tincho: yes
18:31:54 <wouter> Tincho: isn't that "as soon as possible"? ;)
18:31:57 <tassia> what about the inventory? can mehdi check what he is actually shipping?
18:31:59 <maxy> 69120 Heidelberg.
18:32:08 <maxy> That's the shipping address
18:32:09 <RichiH> wouter: as soon as possible is to ship this thu/fri
18:32:10 <Tincho> wouter: you were saying 2-3 days before camp
18:32:14 <tassia> I'm worried that we have surprises when the package arrives
18:32:17 <wouter> oh, that way
18:32:22 <RichiH> tassia: correct
18:32:41 <CarlFK> so... it can be picked up a week or so before when it is convenient, and delivered on the first day someone will be there to receive it.
18:33:04 <wouter> CarlFK: it's a hostelling business, there is someone there, pretty much always
18:33:19 <RichiH> #action mehdi will try to contect IRILL tomorrow or the day after to get access to the office where stuff is stored and give feedback about if it's all there & looks good this week
18:33:20 <mehdi> tassia: everything will be fine :p
18:33:36 <wouter> RichiH: if the venue is happy holding it two weeks for us, I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea to ship this week
18:33:57 <tumbleweed> I think we're all agreed on that
18:34:14 <mehdi> depends how much time it takes to get shipped
18:34:20 <wouter> if they're not happy doing that, I suggest delivery two or three days before debcamp
18:34:56 <tumbleweed> RichiH: next topic?
18:35:10 <tumbleweed> going from actions, that'd be audio
18:35:13 <Tincho> is the stuff already packed?
18:35:15 <wouter> mehdi: would you have the time sometime this week to go over and do a quick inventory? Doesn't have to be a "full" inventory, just make sure that everything seems to be there
18:35:17 <h01ger> #topic would be a good idea :)
18:35:22 <maxy> RichiH: Why not shipping it now to Zugschluss?
18:35:41 <wouter> (if not, don't worry about it then)
18:35:44 <nattie> it's quite a lot of stuff, isn't it?
18:35:47 <wouter> nattie: yes
18:36:01 <mehdi> wouter: possible, yes (or get someone to do it)
18:36:35 <nattie> RichiH: you find out about storage, and let mehdi know ASAP?
18:36:36 <wouter> maybe IRILL has an inventory... although it's possible/likely that they don't
18:36:37 <RichiH> #info richih emailed the jugendherberge if we can have the video equipment arrive & stored next week
18:36:46 <RichiH> nattie: way ahead of you
18:36:50 <wouter> :)
18:36:58 <nattie> great
18:37:00 <RichiH> ok, next topic, audio?
18:37:07 <tumbleweed> RichiH: #topic
18:37:13 <RichiH> #topic last topic was IRILL gear
18:37:17 <mehdi> and budget estimate of 2k€?
18:37:18 <RichiH> #topic audio
18:37:42 <tumbleweed> mehdi: sounds reasonable
18:37:43 * wouter knows zip about audio
18:37:46 <RichiH> mehdi: if you could ask DHL, UPS, etc...
18:37:50 <mehdi> (for two ways shippment i guess)
18:37:51 <RichiH> anyway, audio
18:37:59 <mehdi> k
18:38:04 <tumbleweed> so, DLange provided some information about the venue audio equipment in IRC, and iti didn't look promising
18:38:22 <tumbleweed> many of the venues have a built-in system that isn't very hackable
18:38:29 <maxy> Tincho mentioned an option of €50 for every 30 kg
18:38:41 <Tincho> I am pretty used to ship my personal stuff around europe
18:38:48 <nattie> maxy: that's not exactly what he said
18:38:51 <Tincho> shipping boxes up to 30kg is usually cost-effective
18:39:02 <Tincho> but I don't know how this is packed
18:39:06 <Tincho> and how big are the boxes
18:39:11 <wouter> Tincho: flight cases, fairly large
18:39:22 <RichiH> #info Tincho has some info on shipment prices & carriers and will email the list
18:39:23 <Tincho> wouter: ~ measures?
18:39:40 <tumbleweed> Tincho: look at https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/Videoteam/HardwareInventory
18:39:41 <wouter> from memory: about 1.5m by 1m by 50cm
18:39:51 <wouter> those are the largest boxes
18:39:52 <RichiH> we are running into a 3-hour meeting if we keep this pace
18:39:55 <h01ger> they are not that big
18:39:58 <wouter> there are plenty of others too, though
18:40:18 <wouter> h01ger: well, granted, I'm terrible at guessing. Can you make a better one?
18:40:22 <Tincho> wouter: shit, those don't fit in the budget companies
18:40:54 <tumbleweed> please can we keep this on topic? we can discuss shipping details later
18:40:58 <wouter> right
18:41:04 <wouter> tumbleweed: you were saying, about the venue audio
18:41:10 <tumbleweed> #info https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf15/Videoteam/Help#Venue_installations
18:41:17 <RichiH> #chair tumbleweed
18:41:17 <MeetBot> Current chairs: RichiH tumbleweed
18:41:21 <tumbleweed> #info https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf15/Videoteam/Help#Venue_installations
18:41:23 <RichiH> (do you need that to #info?)
18:41:29 <tumbleweed> did that work? i have no idea
18:41:32 <tumbleweed> anyway
18:41:33 <tumbleweed> it's in the logs
18:41:38 <h01ger> 80cm by 30cm by 30cm
18:42:07 <tumbleweed> that bose system looks unuseable by us. We may be able to use the berlin/london PAs
18:42:21 <tumbleweed> so, we probably have to hire PA equipment
18:42:48 <pollo> tumbleweed: why unusable?
18:42:52 <wouter> tumbleweed: can't we use the aux input on the bose system, and use our own mics?
18:43:07 <tumbleweed> wouter: yes, that may be possible. I don't know where that panel is in the room
18:43:16 <DLange> near the door
18:43:34 <tumbleweed> DLange: do we have floor plans?
18:43:52 <DLange> none that show things like the audio systems
18:44:09 <pollo> http://pro.bose.com/pdf/pro/tech_data/controlspace_cc64/td_controlspace_cc64_eng.pdf
18:44:31 <tumbleweed> pollo: all we can really do is use that as a PA
18:44:37 <tumbleweed> we'd have to use our own mics and mixer
18:44:42 <tumbleweed> so we can get a feed for video
18:44:48 <DLange> git:dc-team/dc15/venue/plans/ is what we have
18:45:11 <wouter> are there any companies local to heidelberg that have the gear we would need?
18:45:55 <DLange> unlikely, Heidelberg is a small university city
18:46:04 <DLange> probably Mannheim or Frankfurt
18:46:50 <tumbleweed> somebody, preferably local, who speaks german needs to find such companies
18:47:00 <tumbleweed> maybe the venue can suggest one? presumably they have to hire things occasionally
18:47:08 <wouter> tumbleweed: can you create a list of things we'd need, though?
18:47:14 <DLange> if you get me a list of what you need, I can do the calls
18:47:35 <DLange> but I can't guarantee that you get what you want/need
18:47:38 <tumbleweed> wouter: sure, I can thumbsuck and post to the list
18:47:38 <wouter> I have a general idea, buy my grasp of what's needed for audio is too low to be able to do this myself
18:47:59 <CarlFK> the venue may have additional equipment too.
18:48:01 <tumbleweed> relatedly, the content team wants a 3 rd room to have video coverge
18:48:07 <tumbleweed> which means a lot of hiring
18:48:12 <DLange> CarlFK: they don't, we asked
18:48:19 <tassia> tumbleweed, I founf my camera
18:48:20 <wouter> tumbleweed: I don't think we'll be able to manage that
18:48:26 <CarlFK> eww.  never mind.
18:48:27 <DLange> just the mics that I put in the wiki
18:48:38 <wouter> I'll be happy if we manage to do video at all this year, given our current state...
18:49:27 <tumbleweed> if someone can find DV cameras and a twinpact, I think we can do it. But I'm pretty powerless in the finding department.
18:49:37 <tassia> having a third unmanned room will mean too much of extra work
18:49:42 <tassia> I found my DV camera
18:49:45 <wouter> mm
18:49:56 <RichiH> tassia: so i don't need to ask the video guy i know?
18:49:59 <wouter> I did offer to take FOSDEM's twinpacts; they have at least three, but I believe more than that
18:50:14 <tumbleweed> wouter: if you could get a couple that would be useful
18:50:18 <wouter> (and FOSDEM likely won't use them anymore either, so that's extra good)
18:50:19 <tumbleweed> (for spares if nothing else)
18:50:28 <h01ger> tumbleweed: fosdem has tons of twinpacts
18:50:30 <tassia> anything else we would need for this 3rd room?
18:50:31 <wouter> still need to talk to other Wouter for that, but okay
18:50:38 <wouter> tassia: more audio gear
18:50:40 <tumbleweed> tassia: all the audio equimpent
18:50:42 <wouter> laptops
18:50:54 <wouter> we only have six laptops, which is not enough if we want to do a third room
18:51:09 <tumbleweed> and that doesn't even leave us with any spares for 2 rooms
18:51:16 <tumbleweed> remember we haven't seen this equimpent in 2 years
18:51:18 <tumbleweed> who knows what works
18:51:22 <tassia> I also have a laptop to lend
18:51:26 <tumbleweed> tassia: needs to have DV
18:51:29 <tumbleweed> err firewire
18:51:32 <tassia> yes, it has
18:51:37 <wouter> I have a number of expresscard firewire adapters
18:51:41 <wouter> "somewhere"
18:51:42 <h01ger> tumbleweed: we saw it at the minidebconf in cambridge last november
18:51:43 <tassia> they were both used in nicaragua
18:51:47 <wouter> I'll need to see if I can find them again
18:51:50 <tvaz> it's a x61 12GB with SSD, should work
18:51:53 <tumbleweed> h01ger: not all of it
18:52:06 <RichiH> #info richih poked woutersimons/FOSDEM about loaning twinpacts and wouter will also follow up
18:52:09 <wouter> I can also bring my x220 (which has an expresscard slot)
18:52:10 <h01ger> i think all laüptops
18:52:16 <wouter> RichiH: er, I'm an idiot
18:52:21 <tumbleweed> yeah, I can bring an x220 too
18:52:30 <wouter> I do *not* need to ask other wouter, he has nothing to do with storage, need to ask wodan
18:52:34 <wouter> sorry, got a bit confused there
18:52:45 <RichiH> wouter: no worries, i will poke wodan as well
18:52:50 <wouter> I'll call him after the meeting (or tomorrow, depending on what time the meeting ends)
18:53:08 <tassia> ok, so with my camera+laptop + renting more audio, are we able to do the 3rd room?
18:53:17 <wouter> tassia: "maybe"
18:53:29 <tumbleweed> #action tumbleweed to write a list of required audio hardware
18:53:30 <tassia> and wouter and tumbleweed also have spare laptops
18:53:45 <wouter> personally, I would suggest we try for it, but don't make a definite commitment to the scheduling team
18:53:58 <tumbleweed> #action wouter, tumbleweed, tassia to bring spare laptops
18:54:17 * wouter will need to back up the data on the x220 first, then :)
18:54:19 <tassia> wouter, it would be the bof room, unmanned
18:54:24 <tumbleweed> tassia: we'd still want another camera, too
18:54:31 <RichiH> #info if it's really urgent, richih can spare his x220 and reinstall it for debconf
18:54:41 <wouter> I have a DV camera, but am not sure if it still works
18:54:46 <wouter> mm, that makes three x220s
18:54:53 <wouter> it might be good to stick to that, so that we have unity of hardware
18:54:58 <wouter> (more or less)
18:55:03 <tassia> wouter, please bring it
18:55:09 <RichiH> wouter: emergency x220, as i would need it normally
18:55:14 <RichiH> but if we need it, we need it
18:55:14 <tumbleweed> ooer, my expresscard slotis a bit bent, might have to bring a pair of pliers :P
18:55:18 <wouter> RichiH: oh, it's your regular laptop?
18:55:23 <RichiH> wouter: ilona's
18:55:28 <wouter> RichiH: that's not an option then
18:55:37 <wouter> mine is my n-1 laptop
18:55:52 <tumbleweed> onwards?
18:55:57 <RichiH> yes, please
18:56:05 <pollo> don,t we need someone to check for a rental palce?
18:56:08 <wouter> #action wouter to check whether he can still find the expresscard firewire modules
18:56:19 <tumbleweed> #topic FAI etc.
18:56:21 <wouter> (otherwise need to buy some more, I guess my supplier still has them)
18:56:27 <tumbleweed> so, that was my action item, and I haven't got to it yet
18:56:30 <tumbleweed> but I'm still committed to it
18:56:31 <tassia> pollo, tumbleweed will make the lisk, DLange will make the call
18:56:47 <wouter> tumbleweed: did franklin do so?
18:56:56 <Tincho> #info I found some offers between 30-50 EUR for a 80x30x30@30kg box; will mail the list with details
18:56:57 <tumbleweed> not that I saw
18:57:02 <tassia> list ow equipments and call the companies
18:58:07 <tumbleweed> same story for veyepar, I'm afraid. I'll try to get somewhere with both, today
18:58:25 <tumbleweed> and cate is still making progress on the volunteer system
18:58:36 <RichiH> tumbleweed: so we will postpone FAI for next meeting?
18:58:59 <tumbleweed> yeah. I feel pretty comfortable with it. I've done it before, I can do it again
18:59:01 <wouter> (apparently my regular supplier still has ten models of firewire expresscard, all between €15 and €60 in price, so that should not be an issue)
18:59:38 <tumbleweed> wouter: reminds me: do you have any HDMI-VGA adapters? I'm guessing we'll need some this year
19:00:09 <wouter> tumbleweed: FOSDEM bought 20+ of those
19:00:27 <wouter> but they're all going to be inside a box by the end of the summer, IIUC, so we might not be able to use them
19:01:03 <wouter> "inside a box" as in "hooked up and probably glued up together so they work for the FOSDEM workflow", which as of the most recent edition is no longer Debconf's
19:01:05 <tumbleweed> I remember spending some DC money on some at DC14. But don't know what happened to them
19:01:06 <RichiH> wouter: only three or four test sets are in various hands atm, the rest is in storage
19:01:32 <RichiH> meh, i may need to leave soonish
19:01:42 <Tincho> RichiH: I don't know the history behind fai and all that.. but possibly it is not needed to get too crazy about it, and just post a tarball somewhere and have the laptops ready before debcamp?
19:01:45 <tumbleweed> wouter: HDMI->VGA? (fosdem had an HMDI capture setup, so I'd assume they'd need VGA->HDMI adaptors)
19:01:54 <RichiH> Tincho: i personally don't care
19:01:55 <wouter> tumbleweed: em, er, ah, yes, sorry
19:02:02 <RichiH> laptops need to work, rest is fluff
19:02:09 <tumbleweed> Tincho: no, that becomes unmanageable
19:02:14 <tumbleweed> the FAI setup is simple enough
19:02:21 <wouter> we really really want a config management system for these laptops
19:02:26 <tumbleweed> (not that I'm a huge FAI fan, but we have something that works)
19:02:26 <RichiH> tumbleweed: _if_ the laptops are all the same model
19:02:30 <wouter> FAI is as good as any other, as long as y ou understand it
19:02:35 <tumbleweed> RichiH: I don't think that matters
19:02:40 <RichiH> k
19:02:41 <Tincho> ok, I was just suggesting to keep it simple as there is not much time :)
19:02:48 <Tincho> I will shut up now
19:02:51 <tumbleweed> Tincho: in that case simple is FAI :)
19:02:55 <wouter> yes
19:02:56 <Tincho> fair enough
19:03:05 * h01ger is more worried about the server side of workflow
19:03:14 <wouter> yes, me too
19:03:23 <h01ger> (cause managing the laptops with fai is easy as tumbleweed said it is (and he knows))
19:03:49 <h01ger> if i were in charge i would have gone with the ccc tools+workflows
19:04:19 <tassia> what do we need to decide about the server side?
19:04:21 <h01ger> i think they were still happ to help, but that would be very very short notice
19:04:36 <wouter> tumbleweed: how much time do you have during the next two weeks to check out veyepar?
19:04:39 <tumbleweed> h01ger: how different is it?
19:04:41 <h01ger> (and i'm not available to do that. i'm out.)
19:05:14 <tumbleweed> wouter: I have the time, I've been getting distracted.
19:05:40 <wouter> tumbleweed: trouble is, if we figure out two days before debcamp that veyepar won't work, we're out of time to come up with a replacement
19:05:46 <tumbleweed> yeah
19:05:54 <h01ger> tumbleweed: main diff is the recording side has to be slightly different, always storing 2gb file chunks and then using a fuse system to access them raw and then another fuse system will have the results. it works really nicely, has post processing toolchain, up to an including uploads and rss feeds
19:06:48 <tumbleweed> h01ger: that does sound nice, but very different
19:07:07 <h01ger> http://paste.debian.net/284590/ are my notes about the mail i wanted to send, when i was still thinkin' i might be doing video at dc15
19:07:30 <wouter> anyone here who's willing/has time to figure out whether that's something we could use? If not, I'm not sure this line of thought is leading anywhere
19:07:38 <wouter> h01ger: note, not meant as criticism
19:08:18 <tumbleweed> that'd be the perfect thing to have sprinted on :(
19:08:25 <h01ger> ("engelsystem" is the ccc system to manage volunteers, which are calle "angels" (german: engels) in ccc lingo
19:08:27 <h01ger> )
19:08:55 <tumbleweed> shall we finish up?
19:09:00 <tumbleweed> #topic Any Other Business?
19:09:06 <wouter> um, hang on
19:09:06 <tassia> so maybe an awesome hint for next year?
19:09:15 <h01ger> tumbleweed: its not totally impossible. debcamp will be when the VOC is online+active (=precccamp and cccamp)
19:09:42 <tassia> h01ger, it is risky
19:09:51 <wouter> tassia: so is going with veyepar at this point
19:10:04 <wouter> we haven't done any tests, we're not even sure we can actually get it working by now+2weeks
19:10:15 <tassia> what about what we had before veyepar?
19:10:24 <h01ger> tassia: i agree. the really risky point though is "managing (=avoiding) postprocessing" - whatever the tool is
19:10:26 <tassia> we used to have a working workflow until dc13
19:10:30 <wouter> that requires penta, which we've moved away from
19:10:31 <tumbleweed> tassia: that depended on penta
19:10:35 <h01ger> if you rely on postprocessing, you are lost
19:10:38 <tumbleweed> also, it was a crazy pile of hacks
19:10:47 <wouter> tumbleweed: yes, but it *did* work ;)
19:10:48 <tumbleweed> h01ger: 100%
19:11:13 <h01ger> so you need to do "almost live processing", whatever the tool is.
19:11:35 <wouter> h01ger: I trust your judgement on this, really: even if you're not volunteering to do the work, what would you think is most likely to succeed?
19:11:38 <wouter> veyepar or the ccc thing?
19:11:44 <tassia> so, is tumbleweed the one person able to play with that and make a decision?
19:12:08 <wouter> tassia: well, he's the one who volunteered. I could if I had the time, which I don't.
19:12:10 <tassia> anyone else volunteer to do that in the following week?
19:12:15 <tumbleweed> we've seen veyepar mostly work. There was post-processing, though
19:12:31 <tumbleweed> if someone could try set up the CCC thing, that'd be useful to compare
19:13:04 <wouter> do we really want to go through a "set up both, compare, decide" cycle anymore at this point?
19:13:05 <h01ger> wouter: i believe veyepar needs CarlFK to help out, no idea if he can. the voc solution on the other hand is known by the voc _team_, which are roughly ten people. otoh the voc solution is completly new, while at least wouter has some experience with veyepar
19:13:10 <tumbleweed> wouter: yeah, probably not
19:13:23 <tumbleweed> I'm feeling that we go with veyepar, and hack ourselves through any trouble we have
19:13:52 <h01ger> otoh, the veyepar workflow is not really obvious from its gui, which IMHO also lacks clearness. so i think you need more training for volunteers with veyepar. that said: pick one & go for it.
19:14:01 <wouter> h01ger: CarlFK said he wouldn't be there, but would be able to help out "through IRC" or some such. That's certainly not the same thing, but might work
19:14:08 <tumbleweed> h01ger: yep
19:14:14 <wouter> h01ger: on that second line, we are in complete agreement
19:14:21 <tassia> wouter, we should not depend on carl
19:14:22 <tumbleweed> h01ger: but the CCC workflow sounds like manual editing to me
19:14:40 <tassia> we had agreed to use veyepar because we would have people here able to work with that
19:14:52 <wouter> tassia: well, sortof
19:14:52 <h01ger> tumbleweed: no, its also just saying "this is the start" and "this is the end"
19:15:10 <wouter> h01ger: it uses a kdenlive plugin or some such, I guess?
19:15:11 <h01ger> files are assigned based on time to talks, but its possible to change this (eg if a talk starts late or does overtime)
19:15:57 <tassia> tumbleweed, would you be able to give some days to that workflow and see if you feel confident enough to continue?
19:16:00 <h01ger> wouter: iirc you save videos using kdeenlive. which is totally straightforward and documented well... you set cut points using it.
19:16:08 <h01ger> _iirc_
19:16:17 <wouter> is there maybe a link to the training video?
19:16:20 <Tincho> can't this be tested _before_ DC?
19:16:20 <h01ger> i think it does also work without kdeenlive
19:16:30 <h01ger> Tincho: thats called debcamp
19:16:37 <Tincho> no, I mean now
19:16:41 <tassia> no, before debcamp
19:16:48 <tumbleweed> Tincho, tassia: I think we have too much other stuff to do
19:16:54 <wouter> yeah, definitely
19:17:10 <h01ger> Tincho: you need a server, a dv cam, an xml database with talks, set up laptops
19:17:27 <tassia> tumbleweed, ok, but I'm scared to hear that we would rely on carl remotely
19:17:30 <Tincho> can't some stuff be delegated to volunteers?
19:17:40 <wouter> "- cutting with kdenlive, training video exists"
19:17:50 <tvaz> ccc video stuf: https://c3voc.de/
19:18:08 <Tincho> it seems a bit risky to go with an unknown software, relying on carl's help, 5 days before debconf
19:18:22 <tassia> tumbleweed, we need a solution that we can handle ourselves or have a team behind, not a single person
19:18:44 <wouter> okay, here's what I suggest
19:19:03 <h01ger> tassia: i think we can handle veyepar by ourselves
19:19:04 <wouter> h01ger: can you send a mail to the cccvoc people with list in Cc, asking them if they can help out?
19:19:08 <h01ger> wouter: no
19:19:09 <tvaz> https://c3voc.de/wiki/softwareconfig
19:19:14 <wouter> (either that, or give someone a list of mail addresses so we can do it)
19:19:39 <wouter> point being that we ask them "today" whether they can help out. if not, we go with veyepar.
19:19:40 <h01ger> video@lists.ccc.de
19:19:43 <wouter> that works
19:19:45 <wouter> thx
19:20:15 <h01ger> (and as said, iirc kdenlive is just an option, though a well documented one)
19:21:18 <wouter> so it wants you to open the project.kdenlive, do a few things, and then click on "finish"
19:21:31 <wouter> I suppose that means they then use mlt directly to do the rendering
19:21:39 <wouter> that seems a fairly straightforward way of doing things, tbh
19:23:18 <h01ger> wouter: wrong.
19:23:28 <wouter> h01ger: which part?
19:23:37 <h01ger> ah. i missed "mlt" in the sentence... rendering is done server side
19:23:47 <tumbleweed> I think I'd like to end the meeting here, and let this discussion roll past the meeting
19:24:00 <wouter> tumbleweed: wfm
19:24:03 <tumbleweed> #endmeeting