18:03:21 <tumbleweed> #startmeeting DebConf16 planning
18:03:21 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue Apr  5 18:03:21 2016 UTC.  The chair is tumbleweed. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:03:21 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:03:30 <tumbleweed> Agenda: https://pad.riseup.net/p/videoteam-debconf
18:03:39 <CarlFK> here
18:03:45 <h01ger> thanks
18:04:19 <tumbleweed> are we happy with the order of the things in the agenda?
18:04:41 <tumbleweed> some things I'd flip: venue review & inventory before softawre stack
18:04:52 <tumbleweed> vienna mini-dc before shipping
18:05:02 <pollo> +1
18:05:30 <CarlFK> natty! semi-waves and hugs
18:05:32 <tumbleweed> OK, while that's happening
18:05:39 <tumbleweed> #topic Venue Review
18:05:44 <nattie> hey hey Carl! :
18:05:45 <nattie> :)
18:06:09 <tumbleweed> I wrote that section, so let me describe it a bit
18:06:32 <tumbleweed> we're hoping debconf will mostly be in two adjacent buildings
18:06:42 <tumbleweed> well, they're all we've booked
18:06:44 <tumbleweed> so it will be :P
18:07:05 <tumbleweed> there's a campus map linked from https://debconf16.debconf.org/about/debconf
18:07:58 <pollo> what are the building names?
18:08:01 <tumbleweed> https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf16/Venue
18:08:17 <tumbleweed> so, the main talks will be in Menzies 9 & 10
18:08:24 <tumbleweed> (I think)
18:08:55 <tumbleweed> everything else will be in snape
18:09:02 <tumbleweed> this is all in the top-left corner of the map
18:09:38 <pollo> would it be possible to put all the videoed rooms in the same building?
18:09:45 <tumbleweed> no
18:09:52 <tumbleweed> but the buildings are adjacent
18:09:56 <tumbleweed> connected, even
18:11:09 <tumbleweed> the menzies lecture theaters are on the top-left corner of menzies - just a flight of stairs away from snape
18:11:40 <pollo> will we be able to have a videoteam room somewhere near that?
18:12:26 <pollo> it's pretty usefull to gather people in time of need
18:12:40 <tumbleweed> we haven't actually booked anything for that. There are rooms in NEB that could be appropriate, but that's yet another building (across a courtyard from snape)
18:13:19 <wouter> there
18:13:24 <pollo> do you think you could ask someone from local team to look into it?
18:13:28 <tumbleweed> #action tumbleweed to ask ginngs about a video team room, near menzies
18:13:33 * wouter reads backlog
18:13:36 <pollo> :D
18:14:07 <tumbleweed> Move on?
18:14:12 <pollo> For the PAs, is there a sound board or do we need to plug in ours?
18:14:21 <tumbleweed> define "sound board"
18:14:36 <tumbleweed> there are PA systems, that I'm expecting to be able to plug into
18:14:44 <tumbleweed> if nothing else, via the mini-jack on the presenter's desk
18:14:48 <pollo> the thingy with all the dials we move up and down to manipulate the sound
18:14:52 <tumbleweed> a mixer
18:14:55 <pollo> that yes
18:15:16 <tumbleweed> no, we'll need our own (as always)
18:15:45 * pollo is good to move ahead
18:15:48 * wouter has caught up
18:16:01 <wouter> having balanced audio is preferable
18:16:11 <wouter> sometimes they may have it, but not by default
18:16:18 <tumbleweed> pollo: I'll be in CPT this time next month, I can do a proper site inspection of the PA system, then
18:16:19 <wouter> would be good to have someone local ask about that
18:16:25 <tumbleweed> or we can ask ginngs to do so in the meantime
18:16:27 <pollo> tumbleweed: +1
18:16:28 <wouter> tumbleweed: great :)
18:17:50 <wouter> #action tumbleweed to check PA when in CPT next month
18:18:24 <wouter> meanwhile, we should probably prepare for mini-TRS connectors if necessary
18:18:24 <tumbleweed> #topic What hardware do we need
18:18:44 <pollo> we said we wanted to keep the dv setup in case something goes wrong
18:18:50 <wouter> the HDMI2USB thingies still require a local laptop, right?
18:18:51 <pollo> so we need all the stuff in Paris
18:19:16 <tumbleweed> wouter: yes. There is an ethernet-streaming firmware project, but I don't think it's useable, yet
18:19:27 <wouter> okay, so we'll need three laptops per room then
18:19:38 <wouter> do we have that?
18:19:43 <tumbleweed> or 4
18:19:48 <wouter> why 4?
18:19:49 <tumbleweed> no, our laptops are a mess
18:19:55 <tumbleweed> 2 cameras, mixer, grabber
18:20:05 <pollo> even just for video?
18:20:10 <wouter> oh, in the BoF room? right
18:20:19 <wouter> er, no, silly me
18:20:29 <wouter> we can do mixer and camera on the same laptop, we've always done that
18:20:37 <tumbleweed> oh, right
18:20:39 <tumbleweed> yeah
18:21:16 <pollo> it would be nicer to have desktop PC for mixer if we want to test out the CCC mixing software
18:21:26 <wouter> so, what happened to the 9 X200-series laptops that we had in Heidelberg?
18:21:52 <tumbleweed> wouter: those were given away to good homes
18:22:03 <tumbleweed> also, we were actually relying on Sledge's x230s a lot
18:22:18 <wouter> right, so I think pollo's suggestion is probably a better idea then
18:22:25 <wouter> rent/borrow something locally in CPT?
18:22:31 <tumbleweed> yeah, I think we should try to hire
18:22:52 <pollo> isn't there a local sponsor who could lend us some stuff?
18:22:53 <tumbleweed> downside is, if we get dependant on hiring, we always have to hire
18:23:01 <tumbleweed> pollo: there isn't a single local sponsor, yet :(
18:23:02 <wouter> tumbleweed: not so
18:23:05 <tumbleweed> but we're working on that
18:23:16 <wouter> on the contrary, in fact
18:23:23 <tumbleweed> wouter: I mean, right now, we simply don't have enough laptops. We have to replenish / hire
18:23:53 <wouter> we could ask bdale if he can get HP to donate newer laptops
18:24:07 <tumbleweed> HP is now two companies, and he's not on the side that makes laptops
18:24:08 <wouter> we did get those from HP several years back (DC11 IIRC)
18:24:09 <tumbleweed> but yes
18:24:14 <wouter> ah, yes, didn't think of that part
18:24:16 <pollo> I heard someone who said Debian had a lot of money lying around, maybe we could actually _buy_ some stuff
18:24:20 <CarlFK> I have a friends odroid to see if it can be used as the graber host - it seems to have good usb and good eathernet, so need to see if the cpu can transcode mjpeg to dv
18:24:42 <CarlFK> I should have a good answer in a week
18:24:53 <tumbleweed> CarlFK: we need firewire capture as long as we have DV cameras
18:25:02 <CarlFK> tumbleweed: not for the grabber
18:25:05 <tumbleweed> yes
18:25:10 <tumbleweed> but 2/3s of the machines need it
18:25:19 <wouter> tumbleweed: we still do have 5 somewhat working laptops with builtin firewire
18:25:27 <CarlFK> if it works, that is two less laptops you need
18:25:34 <wouter> CarlFK: three
18:25:42 <wouter> (three rooms)
18:25:51 <CarlFK> even better
18:26:26 <wouter> I can definitely bring some firewire expresscards
18:26:27 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: would you be able to look into local hiring?
18:26:36 <tumbleweed> wouter: debconf now owns a ton of those :P
18:26:44 <wouter> tumbleweed: yes, but what happened to them?
18:26:52 <tumbleweed> they're in our boxes in paris
18:26:55 <wouter> I was going to look whether I had brought them home, but forgot
18:26:56 <wouter> ah, okay
18:26:59 <wouter> so we should bring those then
18:27:26 <wouter> tumbleweed: side note: the word you're looking for is "renting". "hiring" involves people ;-)
18:27:41 <tumbleweed> depends on your english dialect
18:27:51 <wouter> eh, possibly
18:28:22 <wouter> anyway, I'm also not convinced that all of those original five laptops are still in good working order
18:28:43 <wouter> I remember a number of issues with them last year
18:29:48 <wouter> so, I suggest we attempt to find 6 or so machines locally, three of which (at least) should have a firewire connection
18:30:07 <h01ger> hi, sorry, got a RL meeting too…
18:30:10 <tumbleweed> that sounds like a plan
18:30:21 <h01ger> now back for 5min or so, reading backlog
18:31:11 <wouter> http://rentware.co.za/ seems like a local company
18:32:03 <tumbleweed> we knew somebody in this business, but I haven't heard from him in years
18:32:16 <tumbleweed> (bisybackson, for highvoltage's benefit)
18:32:40 <wouter> desktops starting at R400 per week
18:32:45 <wouter> how much is that in euros or dollars?
18:33:01 <tumbleweed> wouter: 15 ZAR : 1 USD
18:33:13 <wouter> so 26USD
18:33:20 <pollo> that's pretty cheap
18:33:43 <tumbleweed> of course there may be a surcharge for blowing away the OS :P
18:33:52 <wouter> tumbleweed: not in my experience
18:33:53 <pollo> we could just swap hhd
18:33:56 <wouter> I've dealt with such companies before
18:34:13 <wouter> they tend to routinely wipe the hard disk after every rental
18:34:18 <wouter> so they don't care what you do with it
18:34:29 <wouter> in fact, they may be cheaper if we tell them that we don't want a windows on it
18:34:29 <tumbleweed> I should hope so, but I kind of suspect they don't
18:34:38 <wouter> because license and hourly rates
18:34:55 <tumbleweed> anyway, let's move on?
18:34:58 <pollo> i missed a part (spotty connection), but could we plug in firewire cards and not use laptops tnen?
18:35:04 <h01ger> https://www.uct.ac.za/images/uct.ac.za/contact/campusmaps/big/uctuppercampus.jpg - where are we?
18:35:07 <wouter> pollo: definitely
18:35:12 <pollo> cool, thx
18:35:21 <tumbleweed> h01ger: top left
18:35:34 <tumbleweed> pollo: the firewire cards we have are mini-pcie, not pcie
18:35:39 <tumbleweed> so we'd need to buy some
18:35:54 <wouter> actually, what we have is expresscard
18:35:58 <tumbleweed> err that, yes
18:36:03 <wouter> there is that, indeed
18:36:10 <pollo> is there stuff we need extra to test the voctomix setup?
18:36:20 <wouter> but if we call that company and spec "laptops with decent processor and expresscard slot", they should be happy
18:36:21 <tumbleweed> pollo: so, CCC's vocto setup uses blackmagic cards
18:36:27 <wouter> otoh, those expresscards were a source of trouble lastyear
18:36:30 <wouter> last year, even
18:36:46 <tumbleweed> pollo: LCA used HDV over firewire (and run into a bunch of trouble with that, but it should all be fixed now)
18:37:09 <wouter> might be better to use desktops and PCIe firewire cards after all
18:37:19 <tumbleweed> we don't actually know if those cards were the problem. Just something was.
18:37:28 <wouter> tumbleweed: I suspect it was the cards
18:37:28 <pollo> tumbleweed: so we don't need new cameras?
18:37:31 <wouter> I've seen the failure mode before
18:37:36 <h01ger> re: asking the dpl to support buying hw is a good idea
18:37:37 <tumbleweed> IIRC the HP laptops with onboard firewire seemed to work better
18:37:40 <CarlFK> I would hold off talking about Vocto in the DC meetings until someone has actually recorded a talk using a similar setup as will be used at DC
18:38:03 <tumbleweed> pollo: our big cameras have SDI output, and firewire
18:38:08 <tumbleweed> (we have 2 of them)
18:38:11 <pollo> \0/
18:38:19 <h01ger> as is asking "the public" whether they can donate 10 laptops of the same kind and/or 4 powerful enough to run voctomix
18:38:24 <tumbleweed> so, our ambitious plan at mini-dc-cambridge
18:38:40 <tumbleweed> was to test out voctomix in one room
18:38:40 <pollo> CarlFK: i think we should talk about it if we plan to move to voctomix for DC17
18:38:41 <wouter> my supplier has pcie firewire expansion boards for €25ish
18:38:50 <tumbleweed> maybe a bof room, not one of the talk ones
18:39:21 <wouter> which is actually cheaper than the expresscard stuff that I got last year
18:39:24 <pollo> tumbleweed: that would be nice
18:39:41 <wouter> (iirc)
18:40:19 <h01ger> so no more twinpacts?
18:40:24 <wouter> h01ger: nope
18:40:25 <tumbleweed> wouter: looks like we can get at a similar price in za https://www.nivo.co.za/#search/search~pcie+firewire
18:40:34 <wouter> tumbleweed: right
18:40:50 <wouter> so my suggestion would be to rent desktops with a PCIe slot, and plug in firewire cards
18:41:01 <wouter> that's going to be more reliable than expresscards
18:41:24 <wouter> even if only because you can actually put a screw in a PCIe card (as opposed to an expresscard) so they can't move
18:41:32 <CarlFK> I have tons of firewire cards in all shapes and sizes - including half hight slot back things... I'll send tumbleweed as many lbs of them as he wants.   wrapped in firewire cables.
18:41:39 <tumbleweed> lol
18:41:51 <wouter> CarlFK: even better :)-
18:41:56 <h01ger> someone should #info and #agreed stuff. anybody can do #info, only chairs can #agreed. iirc. Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:41:59 <tumbleweed> we can probably borrow old desktops from the university, but they could be very old
18:42:04 <pollo> I think we should buy new firewire cables though
18:42:19 <tumbleweed> we bought new ones last year
18:42:24 <h01ger> idea: ask the dpl to support buying hw - laptops
18:42:27 <wouter> tumbleweed: I would not borrow old desktops
18:42:28 <h01ger> #idea: ask the dpl to support buying hw - laptops
18:42:37 * CarlFK will send pollo 10 unused firewire cables a week until he tells me to stop
18:42:44 <pollo> :D
18:42:48 <wouter> CarlFK: lol
18:43:06 <h01ger> #idea: blog and ask for laptop donations, either from individuals or donations from companies
18:43:07 <pollo> it's just we had problem with one room last year until we changed a freaking cable
18:43:31 <wouter> h01ger: the advantage of renting locally is "no shipping costs"
18:43:47 <h01ger> wouter: *shrugs*
18:43:50 <pollo> h01ger: why buy if we can ge them cheaper than what shipping them will cost us?
18:43:51 <wouter> I think $26/week is going to be cheaper than shipping from US or EU
18:44:06 <h01ger> the advantage of shipping is you know the stuff and you can ship the same models many times
18:44:27 <wouter> there is that, provided we get them months/week beforehand
18:44:33 <wouter> *weeks
18:45:08 <tumbleweed> OK, time to move on
18:45:09 <h01ger> #info there are 3 main talk rooms to be videoed and 2 bof rooms would also love some coverage
18:45:09 <wouter> okay, so are we agreed on the desktop/pcie firewire, at least?
18:45:25 <pollo> wouter: i think it's the best we can do
18:45:27 <wouter> tumbleweed: can we make a decision first? otherwise we're just talking, not meeting
18:45:36 * h01ger is not sure there is a conclusion how voctomix is run where
18:45:57 * h01ger agrees with wouter that a plan should be agreed on
18:46:02 <cate> hello. just "some" minute later
18:46:05 <tumbleweed> yeah, we pushed the software stack agenda item too low down
18:46:09 <tumbleweed> it should have come bofore this
18:46:17 <pollo> heh, it used to be :p
18:46:18 <h01ger> then detour software
18:46:36 <h01ger> then hw again and then software in detail maybe, or "software, whats left"
18:46:51 <pollo> dvswitch in the 2 main rooms, voctomix in the bof one
18:47:01 <pollo> that's what I understood
18:47:02 <wouter> I thought the idea was to attempt voctomix during early debcamp, do a few trial runs, and then decide whether to stick with it or fall back to dvswitch?
18:47:14 <tumbleweed> something like that
18:47:15 <wouter> but maybe I misunderstood :-)
18:47:28 <wouter> if we're going to work with two software stacks, we may have more training to do
18:47:35 <pollo> indeed
18:48:03 <pollo> but if we decide to use voctomix, we need to be sure it'll last the whole conference
18:48:14 <wouter> there is that
18:48:21 <wouter> doing bof room might indeed be a better idea
18:48:22 <pollo> nobody wants to deal with changing the whole software in the middle of the conf
18:48:23 <CarlFK> vocto and dvswtich have different HW requirements.  trying to supply both will up the cost, and trying to implement both adds complexity that I would recommend against
18:48:43 <tumbleweed> CarlFK: I don't see how we get the experience with voctomix, without using it in a room
18:48:52 <wouter> tumbleweed++
18:49:01 <pollo> CarlFK: how is that? we can use our cameras with both and will have desktops
18:49:12 <CarlFK> tumbleweed: use it in the bof room knowing that it may fail
18:49:19 <tumbleweed> pollo: we'll probably need to run different releases of Debian for DVSwitch / vocto
18:49:23 <wouter> CarlFK: yes, and announce that loudly, too
18:49:25 <CarlFK> pollo: dv needs firewire, vocto needs more cpu
18:49:26 <tumbleweed> at LCA, we ran dvswitch from an ancient chroot
18:49:28 <cate> could you test voctomix in vienna or in debdummer?
18:49:53 <cate> debsummer
18:49:58 <CarlFK> people who want to test vocto should be testing it now on their home machines  (please please someone do this for me?)
18:50:03 <wouter> #action wouter will make some time trying to get dvswitch to run on jessie+backports (for ffmpeg)
18:50:14 <wouter> if that works, we *don't* need two OSes
18:50:59 <pollo> I still think we should test voctomix in th BoF room only if it works during debcamp
18:51:04 <tumbleweed> I don't know if vocto will even run on jessie
18:51:15 <wouter> tumbleweed: oh.
18:51:21 <wouter> pollo: that's a given :-)
18:51:28 <wouter> tumbleweed: must admit I haven't tried that
18:51:45 <pollo> as for OSes, why can't we just have a few HDDs to swap?
18:51:53 <wouter> then again, if I say "jessie+backports" because ffmpeg, I could just as well say "unstable"
18:51:54 <tumbleweed> pollo: eeeek
18:52:04 <tumbleweed> pollo: no, I'd much rather use a chroot
18:52:07 <CarlFK> is the BOF room the 3rd room?
18:52:10 <wouter> CarlFK: yes
18:52:25 <wouter> are we willing to run this on an early-debcamp-unstable snapshot?
18:52:42 <tumbleweed> well jessie+backports sounds like a better option
18:52:51 <tumbleweed> but if that's the only thing that works, then that's what we have to do
18:52:58 <wouter> right
18:53:29 <wouter> CarlFK: will you be at dc16?
18:53:35 <CarlFK> if we commit to the BOF room being "disposable" and will either use Vocto or die, then you don't need any firewire for that room,
18:53:48 <CarlFK> wouter: i wish, but I don't plan on it :(
18:54:00 <tumbleweed> CarlFK: you can always use dvswitch without firewire
18:54:03 <tumbleweed> (given sufficient CPU)
18:54:06 <wouter> CarlFK: very good point
18:54:32 <wouter> I think it's fair to say to the scheduling team that the bof room is going to use an experimental software stack, and that it may fail
18:54:35 <pollo> for voctomix we need recent i7 from what I saw
18:54:40 <CarlFK> tumbleweed: um.. dvswitch without firewire ... how to you hook up the cameras?
18:54:51 <tumbleweed> CarlFK: however you were going to with vocto
18:54:56 <wouter> CarlFK: there is a gstreamer plugin to do dvswitch ;-)
18:54:57 <CarlFK> pollo: my gen 2 i3 desktop was ok
18:55:13 <wouter> pollo: you only do if you want to do FullHD or better
18:55:16 <wouter> pollo: we don't
18:55:27 <CarlFK> pollo: ah - doing 720p -CCC does 1080 which needs more cpu
18:56:06 <wouter> tumbleweed: can you either make someone co-chair, or do some #agreed thing? ;-)
18:56:14 <tumbleweed> anybody can #agreed, I think
18:56:19 <CarlFK> tumbleweed: oh right.  my bad.  hmm.. what is the plan for cameras in the BOF room?
18:56:22 <nattie> no, that takes a chair
18:56:26 <nattie> i think everyone can #info
18:57:07 <tumbleweed> ah, #action is everyone
18:57:09 <tumbleweed> #agreed isn't
18:57:14 <tumbleweed> oops :P
18:57:19 <wouter> CarlFK: we were taking a detour through software so we can make that decision :-)
18:57:51 <wouter> tumbleweed: so please do some agreed lines (we've made a number of decisions already) so they show up in the minutes?
18:57:56 <pollo> So here is my proposal: we try voctomix in debcamp. If it works, we use it in the BoF room. If not, we use dvswitch everywhere
18:58:01 <tumbleweed> yes, I'm trying to figure out what they are
18:58:10 <tumbleweed> #agreed DVswitch for the 2 main rooms, experimental vocto for the BOF room
18:58:15 <wouter> desktops+pcie firewire
18:58:39 <tumbleweed> wouter: for mixer or mixer and camera capture?
18:58:58 <wouter> tumbleweed: eh, we didn't actually discuss that part :)
18:59:06 <wouter> I think doing desktops for the mixer is sane
18:59:26 <tumbleweed> stick to the HP laptops for secondary camera
18:59:31 <tumbleweed> probably a good use for them
18:59:32 <wouter> and camera capture isn't much work, so that doesn't requires a separate machine
18:59:36 <wouter> yeah, I was about to say that :-)
18:59:50 <wouter> did grabbing with the hdmi2usb thing require much CPU?
18:59:55 <pollo> didn't we say firewire would be more stable on the desktops?
19:00:06 <tumbleweed> a reasonable amount, it needs a gstreamer pipeline that converts it to firewire
19:00:21 <tumbleweed> pollo: it was also more stable on the HP laptops
19:00:23 <wouter> pollo: as compared to expresscard firewire, yes. these laptops have builtin firewire, so there's less difference then
19:00:36 <wouter> tumbleweed: ah yes
19:00:46 <tumbleweed> not a honking i7 cpu
19:00:47 <CarlFK> hdmi2usb delivers mjpeg - very old core2 can tanscode to dv with like 30% cpu, so not much.
19:00:51 <tumbleweed> but something not terrible
19:00:55 <wouter> but that's not too much, video decoding isn't very complicated (you can do it realtime) and DV is basically moving JPEG I-frames
19:01:02 <tumbleweed> yeah, we could possibly do it on the same camera
19:01:09 <tumbleweed> err same laptop
19:01:13 <tumbleweed> but they may be on opposite sides of the room
19:01:31 <wouter> let's not go there
19:01:47 <wouter> let's say we rent/borrow/whatever six desktops
19:01:52 <wouter> of which at least three must have PCIe slots
19:01:58 <pollo> wouter++
19:01:59 <wouter> and bring all five laptops from paris
19:02:12 <wouter> so that we have some spare capacity, too
19:02:25 <wouter> can you #agreed that? ;-)
19:02:34 <h01ger> lets decide on what before how
19:02:47 <tumbleweed> h01ger: haven't we decided that?
19:02:48 <wouter> that is a what :)
19:03:01 <h01ger> what do we need^wagree on for the 3 main rooms? and whta for the 2 bof rooms?
19:03:07 <tumbleweed> h01ger: see the last #agreed
19:03:10 <wouter> h01ger: er
19:03:16 <wouter> h01ger: we have three rooms to do video in
19:03:22 <wouter> two of them are main rooms, one is a bof room
19:03:30 <wouter> in the other two bof rooms we don't do video
19:03:32 <pollo> more than 3 is not sane anyway
19:03:34 <tumbleweed> well, our ambitious plans from the mini-dc were to try for 4 rooms :P
19:03:37 <h01ger> [20:59] < tumbleweed> #agreed DVswitch for the 2 main rooms, experimental vocto for the BOF room
19:03:40 <tumbleweed> with an automated camera in the 4th
19:03:43 <h01ger> misses 2 rooms?
19:03:58 <tumbleweed> h01ger: yeah, your room summary was weird
19:03:59 <wouter> h01ger: no it doesn't
19:04:11 <tumbleweed> h01ger: we never video all the BoF rooms
19:04:13 <tumbleweed> and nobody expects us to
19:04:39 <pollo> we did not agreed on what to do in the BoF is voctomix fails though. Die or dvswitch?
19:04:42 * wouter eats leftover waffles for dinner
19:04:55 <wouter> pollo: I think die is reasonable if it happens halfway through debconf
19:04:57 <tumbleweed> pollo: it's not like we have a choice
19:05:16 <wouter> if we find it's not possible early in debcamp, we can still fall back to dvswitch if we have the hardware
19:05:21 <pollo> wouter: yeah, but I mean we can,t make it run during debcamp
19:05:33 <tumbleweed> I think it should be fairly straight-forward to fall back, with whatever hardware we have
19:05:33 <wouter> but much will depend on what cameras we will get for that room
19:05:38 <tumbleweed> if it was capable of vocto
19:05:44 <tumbleweed> it can handle the transcoding for dvswitch
19:05:45 <wouter> tumbleweed: true enough
19:05:48 <pollo> can you #agree on this?
19:06:07 <wouter> that, or make someone else co-chair (please please please)
19:06:09 <tumbleweed> #agreed BoF room falls back to dvswitch if vocto prooves infeasable during debcamp
19:06:18 <pollo> \0/
19:06:32 <pollo> so we did hardware and software?
19:06:37 <tumbleweed> wait
19:06:40 <tumbleweed> we aren't thorugh hardware
19:06:53 <wouter> I thought we were, other than that you haven't #agreed that yet
19:06:57 <wouter> so I suspect you have something still to say? ;-)
19:07:01 <tumbleweed> #agreed hire 6 desktops and buy 3 PCIe Firewire cards
19:07:07 <h01ger> newer iX (i3, …) is *much* faster than older iX, btw… (and just saying)
19:07:10 <tumbleweed> yes, I have a whole bunch of half-typed lines
19:07:16 <wouter> tumbleweed: okay :)
19:07:45 <tumbleweed> #agreed bring all laptops from Paris, use as secondary camera capture and possibly opsis capture
19:07:54 <tumbleweed> what's still missing there?
19:08:00 <h01ger> < pollo> So here is my proposal: we try voctomix in debcamp. If it works, we use it in the BoF room. If not, we use dvswitch everywhere
19:08:06 * h01ger likes that
19:08:14 <pollo> h01ger: we agreed on that
19:08:15 <tumbleweed> I just #agreed something very similar to that
19:08:34 <pollo> (03:04:38 PM) h01ger: [20:59] < tumbleweed> #agreed DVswitch for the 2 main rooms, experimental vocto for the BOF room
19:08:44 <h01ger> cool cool
19:08:46 <pollo> tumbleweed: #agreed BoF room falls back to dvswitch if vocto prooves infeasable during debcamp
19:08:50 <wouter> so that's hardware and recording stack
19:09:05 <wouter> do we need to modify much in the streaming end of things?
19:09:23 <h01ger> (the whole meeting btw, me likes the agenda, just i'm sorry i'm hardly here… RL meeting still ongoing :)
19:09:26 <tumbleweed> oeer that's a whole other topic
19:09:36 <wouter> tumbleweed: (can you update the #topic then, too? ;-)
19:09:42 <h01ger> audio hw?
19:09:43 <highvoltage> tumbleweed: I can look at local hiring (into what?)
19:09:46 <tumbleweed> well, we are still on hardware we need
19:09:49 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: \o/
19:09:52 <highvoltage> (I mean hiring what?)
19:09:56 <wouter> tumbleweed: right, audio
19:10:03 <pollo> highvoltage: 6 desktops
19:10:15 <pollo> with cpus nice enough to run voctomix
19:10:25 <wouter> highvoltage: at least three of them must have PCIe slots so we can plug in firewire cards
19:10:33 <wouter> (that, or builtin firewire, but good luck with that today)
19:10:44 <highvoltage> pollo: what would that be? I can probably borrow a few 4th generation core i5 machines with 8GB RAM for free though
19:10:48 <highvoltage> (they're new dells)
19:10:55 <wouter> that sounds reasonable
19:10:58 <pollo> indeed
19:11:04 <highvoltage> I'll find out tomorrow
19:11:05 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: any idea how many?
19:11:06 <wouter> do you have a bit more detail on what the exact i5 is though?
19:11:09 <CarlFK> 4th generation core i5 is fine for vocto
19:11:17 <tumbleweed> #action highvoltage to find out about borrowing machines
19:11:17 <highvoltage> I think they have 7 of them unused at the moment
19:11:22 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: that'd be \o/
19:11:27 <wouter> highvoltage: that sounds just perfect, then
19:11:30 <highvoltage> oh this is a meeting? sorry I'm missing it, tough day
19:11:36 <pollo> heh
19:11:38 <wouter> highvoltage: no worries :)
19:11:56 <wouter> audio hardware then?
19:11:57 <tumbleweed> #topic Audio Hardware
19:11:59 <wouter> :)
19:12:10 <tumbleweed> we have this stuff in paris
19:12:17 <tumbleweed> but presumably better to hire locally
19:12:24 <wouter> yeah
19:12:27 <tumbleweed> and actually, we are short of radio mics in paris
19:12:47 <tumbleweed> UCT has an AV centre that we can hire from, but I'm betting it'll be shitty equipment, and overpriced
19:13:10 <pollo> we need 3 mixers, 6 wireless mics and?
19:13:21 <tumbleweed> I'd say more than 6 wireless mics
19:13:22 <wouter> reasonable amount of XLR cables
19:13:27 <wouter> booms
19:13:38 <tumbleweed> in a main talk room, it's nice to have 2 headset mics and 2 handheld
19:13:40 <wouter> yeah, more than six mics, too
19:13:48 <tumbleweed> plus 2 ambient mics
19:14:04 <highvoltage> I have a friend who works for this company: http://www.avdirect.co.za/ - they have decent stuff, but are expensive, but if I can give him a shopping list he might be able to get a better than usual price (especially since it's off-season)
19:14:20 <pollo> so 4 headsets, 6 wireless handheld, 6 ambient?
19:14:30 <tumbleweed> pollo: yeah + cabling
19:14:38 <wouter> as for the bof room
19:14:44 <wouter> last year we used directional mics there
19:14:49 <wouter> but I'm not convinced it was a great success
19:15:05 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: that'd be awesome. I guess someone will have to come up with a list of equipment for you
19:15:06 <wouter> the alternative is handing microphones around, but in a bof that quickly gets tiring
19:15:21 <wouter> how large is the bof room?
19:15:27 <highvoltage> tumbleweed: yep that would be great
19:15:33 <pollo> wouter: 130 ppl
19:15:40 <wouter> the bof room? really?
19:15:49 <wouter> that sounds more like the main track rooms
19:15:52 <tumbleweed> wouter: we have 6 rooms like that (well 2 are a bit smaller)
19:15:53 <wouter> bof rooms are usually a few dozen people
19:15:59 <wouter> whoa
19:16:00 <wouter> okay
19:16:15 <tumbleweed> we also have 3 smaller ones, that might be better suited to bofs
19:16:16 <wouter> I _was_ going to suggest putting a few boom mics in a room so that "almost everything" is picked up without directional mikes
19:16:21 <wouter> but that sounds like a bad idea then
19:16:31 <tumbleweed> the thing about those 130 seater rooms is that they're just a bit small for a main talk room, if everyone at the conference is in the room
19:16:49 <wouter> they sound more like "small talk rooms"
19:16:58 <tumbleweed> yeah, they really are
19:17:18 <pollo> we need at least 3 mic stands too
19:17:19 <wouter> I don't think they will work in the same way as last year's videoed bof room then
19:17:46 <tumbleweed> wouter: yeah, that room also ended up being hard work on the camera operators
19:17:55 <wouter> what kind of a room is that? is it like an aula, or more like a large meeting room?
19:17:55 <tumbleweed> because of the mics
19:18:17 <wouter> can we move the furniture around, or is it bolted to the floor?
19:18:20 <tumbleweed> wouter: https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf16/Venue 3 and 4 th pics on the conference layout page
19:18:27 <tumbleweed> those are the 130 seaters
19:18:34 <tumbleweed> can't move anything
19:18:45 <tumbleweed> however, there are smaller rooms next door, that we can totally rearrange
19:18:49 <pollo> FYI we've been in meeting for 1:20 now. I said it would take 1:30
19:18:57 <wouter> snape A looks like you can
19:19:06 <tumbleweed> yeah, the A rooms are rearrangeable
19:19:14 <pollo> I think we should go on, but if ppl need to go we _could_ do another meeting soonish
19:19:23 <tumbleweed> OK, yes, let's push forward
19:19:34 <wouter> we'll do another meeting about audio then?
19:19:40 <tumbleweed> can I action someone to give highvoltage a list?
19:19:46 <pollo> +1
19:19:55 <tumbleweed> pollo: is that you?
19:19:57 <pollo> ja
19:20:00 <wouter> someone who's good at audio preferably then (which is not me)
19:20:08 <tumbleweed> it's not really pollo, either
19:20:11 <wouter> pollo: erm, no offense, but I'm not sure it's you, either...?
19:20:19 <tumbleweed> nor me :P
19:20:35 <pollo> hehm I though you were talking about the mics & stands
19:20:35 <wouter> maybe we should yell on the list
19:20:47 <wouter> if nobody speaks up, I can make an effort
19:21:02 <pollo> rattus rattus?
19:21:10 <pollo> he seemed good with audio
19:21:18 <wouter> yeah, that would work
19:21:23 <wouter> if he has the time :-)
19:21:45 <tumbleweed> #action highvoltage to price rental of 4 wireless headsets, 6 wireless handhelds, 6 omni mics with stands, 3 mixers, plus enough cabling
19:21:56 <tumbleweed> I guess that's as detailed a list as we're going to get
19:22:02 <wouter> fair enough
19:22:21 <pollo> do we need to look into server hardware?
19:22:22 <wouter> we can probably update that list if we find that we need more, too
19:22:25 <tumbleweed> err, actually
19:23:05 <tumbleweed> #action highvoltage to price rental of 6 wireless headsets, 6 wireless handhelds, 6 omni mics with stands, 3 mixers, plus enough cabling
19:23:21 <tumbleweed> #topic opsis
19:23:40 <pollo> how did the tests in Cambridge go?
19:23:43 <tumbleweed> these are still all sitting in my office
19:23:58 <tumbleweed> is anyone going to do anything about bringing these up?
19:24:00 <wouter> pollo: fairly good, I would say
19:24:09 <wouter> tumbleweed: what needs to be done about them?
19:24:12 <tumbleweed> I think I have all the necessary cables (but probably not enough HDMI cables)
19:24:37 <pollo> wouter: any major problem that meant we should not use them?
19:24:39 <highvoltage> ack
19:24:50 <tumbleweed> wouter: flash them, make a machine image for streaming from them
19:25:02 <wouter> pollo: tumbleweed may have a better idea :-)
19:25:07 <tumbleweed> I have some experince from flashing the atlys (dev) board
19:25:23 <tumbleweed> but haven't played with the opsis, yet
19:25:30 <wouter> tumbleweed: to avoid any confusion, the opsis is what exactly?
19:25:41 <tumbleweed> https://www.crowdsupply.com/numato-lab/opsis
19:25:55 <tumbleweed> it's the production board, we used a dev board in cambridge
19:25:56 <wouter> ah, right
19:26:00 <tumbleweed> the production board is slightly different
19:26:03 <wouter> they're the hdmi2usb thingies
19:26:07 <tumbleweed> yep
19:26:48 <tumbleweed> no takers :P
19:26:53 <wouter> so, what needs to be done then?
19:27:10 <wouter> (also, I'm guessing if they're at your office, it might be good if you were the taker...)
19:27:12 <pollo> tumbleweed: is it possible to bork them while flashing?
19:27:22 <tumbleweed> pollo: I think it's possible to debork
19:27:29 <tumbleweed> yeah, I'm guessing this is on me
19:27:36 <tumbleweed> #action tumbleweed to get the opsis boards working
19:27:37 <pollo> :D, but please doc it
19:27:38 <wouter> sorry :-)
19:27:57 <pollo> with enough doc we should be able to do it the next time
19:27:58 <wouter> I mean, I don't mind playing with such things, but hacking with hardware halfway around the world is problematic
19:28:07 <CarlFK> tumbleweed: yay, someone to help me.  misery loves company :)
19:28:08 <tumbleweed> well, once it's working,
19:28:14 <tumbleweed> we need to get it into our FAI setup
19:28:20 <tumbleweed> or kill our FAI setup :P
19:28:28 <tumbleweed> anyway, moving on
19:28:35 <tumbleweed> #topic Vienna mini-DC
19:28:43 <tumbleweed> do we want to use this to test anything we're going to do at DC16
19:28:55 <tumbleweed> there are two days of debcamp before it, which could be enough time to get some things going
19:29:01 <tumbleweed> but presumably all the hardware will be different...
19:29:15 <pollo> tumbleweed: you won't take anything from IRILL?
19:29:16 <wouter> you could do some voctomix test runs?
19:29:19 <tumbleweed> also, somebody needs to get hardware there
19:29:24 <wouter> if you have the time, that is
19:29:33 <pollo> it'd be nice to mount & test the CCC reviewing software
19:29:38 <tumbleweed> pollo: we've just talked about hiring everything we need, except those laptops
19:29:45 <tumbleweed> pollo: what hardware from IRILL would we ship to CPT?
19:29:53 <wouter> tumbleweed: to vienna
19:30:01 <pollo> tumbleweed: right
19:30:06 <h01ger> #voc-lounge confirmed voctomix runs on jessie (*probably* some jessie-backports are needed too) and newer gstreamer than jessie+backports currently has
19:30:26 <h01ger> can you do #save please?
19:30:28 <wouter> h01ger: cool, good to know
19:30:34 <tumbleweed> h01ger: that makes it sounds like it doesn't run on jessie+backports, right now?
19:30:39 <h01ger> #info #voc-lounge confirmed voctomix runs on jessie (*probably* some jessie-backports are needed too) and newer gstreamer than jessie+backports currently has
19:30:51 <h01ger> tumbleweed: yes.
19:31:09 <pollo> I think we can manage the voctomix & new hw in debcamp, but with the new reviewing sotfware too it might be a little too much
19:31:14 <h01ger> can chair do #save please?
19:31:18 <tumbleweed> #save
19:31:22 <h01ger> merci
19:31:29 <wouter> what does that do?
19:31:35 <tumbleweed> and is that really necessary?
19:32:16 <h01ger> what about vienna? :)
19:32:23 <tumbleweed> pollo: well, it sounds like I'm the only person who is going to be at the miniDC and cape Town, and you can't depend on me setting things up in cape town
19:32:39 * h01ger _might_ be in vienna…
19:32:40 <pollo> ivodd?
19:32:50 <tumbleweed> ivodd said he isn't going to CPT
19:32:58 <pollo> oops, srry
19:33:39 <tumbleweed> and someone is going to have to organise some shipping to vienna
19:33:41 <ivodd> tumbleweed: I don't know if I'm going to CPT yet
19:33:46 <tumbleweed> ah, I see
19:33:49 <ivodd> but it's unlikely I'll be at debcamp
19:34:09 * wouter is going (tickets have already been booked)
19:34:14 <ivodd> I will be in vienna
19:34:17 <wouter> but not to vienna
19:34:32 <pollo> tumbleweed: well if you could see if the opsis board work fine for vienna it'd be swell
19:34:41 <tumbleweed> yeah, that's kind of what I'm aiming for
19:34:42 <pollo> I think we can manage the rest
19:34:57 <h01ger> so ivodd and tumbleweed will be there?
19:34:59 <tumbleweed> will someone look at shipping IRILL to vienna?
19:35:13 <tumbleweed> not shipping IRILL obviously, from IRILL :P
19:35:14 <pollo> I have this guy who wanted to do it for CP
19:35:30 <pollo> if we are not doing it I can ask him for vienna
19:35:51 <pollo> what are the dates?
19:36:16 <tumbleweed> 2016-04-28 / -30 to 2016-05-01 (Thursday to Sunday)
19:36:55 <pollo> I'll ask (he's the same that did the shipping for mini-cambridge)
19:36:58 <tumbleweed> I would offer to carry the laptops from Vienna to CPT, but I'd probably have to pay excess baggage charges
19:37:07 <tumbleweed> it may be an option to consider, though
19:37:22 <pollo> I think it's worth it
19:37:29 <pollo> less trouble making sure they arrive
19:38:01 <pollo> so #action pollo will ask around for shipping stuff from IRILL to Vienna?
19:38:08 <wouter> if excess baggage charges is a problem, I think having debconf pay for that is fine
19:38:11 <pollo> I need a list of what is needed though
19:38:16 <pollo> wouter++
19:38:18 <tumbleweed> #action pollo will ask around for shipping stuff from IRILL to Vienna
19:38:19 <wouter> the alternative is that debconf pays for shipping, anyway
19:38:26 <tumbleweed> pollo: I can help you draw that list up
19:38:28 <tumbleweed> wouter: well, yes
19:38:48 <tumbleweed> and we probably need a Carnet too
19:39:03 <pollo> what is a Carnet?
19:39:09 <wouter> what pollo said :-)
19:39:15 <tumbleweed> http://export.gov/logistics/eg_main_018129.asp
19:39:28 <tumbleweed> horrific paperwork that's required when temporarily importing hardware
19:39:29 <pollo> ooh
19:39:39 <pollo> the guy in France wanted to do it
19:39:49 <pollo> he's Debian France President
19:40:22 <h01ger> actually
19:40:25 <pollo> so it might be simpler shipping the laptops back to IRILL and then back to CPT
19:40:40 <h01ger> shipping IRILL to vienna and from there to cap town is a great plan
19:40:45 <h01ger> to inventory there
19:40:57 <tumbleweed> h01ger: we're reasonably confident of the inventory we took at dc15
19:41:00 <pollo> h01ger: we only need 5 laptops for CPT
19:41:26 <tumbleweed> well
19:41:32 <tumbleweed> we've forgotten abotu cameras
19:41:37 <tumbleweed> in that we made no decisions about them
19:41:43 <pollo> hmm
19:41:44 <tumbleweed> all our cameras are in a single case
19:41:57 <tumbleweed> but firewire cables aren't
19:42:08 <h01ger> so shipping everything to vienna? ;)
19:42:20 <pollo> tumbleweed: having you lug around the laptops and the cameras might be a little too much
19:42:27 <tumbleweed> pollo: yes, thinking so, too
19:42:38 <tumbleweed> I'll already be carrying opsis and a mountain of cables
19:42:45 <pollo> I vote for IRILL -> Vienna -> IRILL -> CPT
19:43:10 <tumbleweed> #action pollo to organise shipping IRILL -> Vienna -> IRILL -> CPT
19:43:15 <tumbleweed> hope that's OK :P
19:43:33 <pollo> that's fine, I'm already in touch with the guy from France
19:43:50 <h01ger> cool
19:43:59 <pollo> but #action tumbleweed to make up a list of stuff needed in Vienna
19:44:02 <tumbleweed> of course that's not enough cameras
19:44:07 <tumbleweed> #action tumbleweed to make up a list of stuff needed in Vienna
19:44:17 <tumbleweed> pollo: can you wokr with highvoltage on finding local cameras?
19:44:28 <pollo> 3 more? firewire?
19:44:45 <pollo> I can if you have the needed specs
19:44:57 <tumbleweed> well, that's what I mean, figuring out the specs
19:45:14 <tumbleweed> so, if SDI, we'll need SDI capture cards
19:45:21 <tumbleweed> (voctomix)
19:45:33 * pollo might not be the best to do this job
19:45:47 <pollo> I'm not (yet) good with video standarts
19:45:56 <tumbleweed> can you take it to the list, then and we'll hash it out, there?
19:46:14 <pollo> yeah
19:46:35 <tumbleweed> #action pollo to take local camera (and capture card) rental to the list, for discussion (i.e. what we want)
19:46:41 <wouter> I think we're done for the rest?
19:46:46 <tumbleweed> #topic Budget
19:46:47 <pollo> Budget
19:46:51 <pollo> woot
19:46:54 <tumbleweed> $5k USD
19:47:00 <tumbleweed> that's the prelimenary number
19:47:07 <tumbleweed> we don't have anything more concrete yet, right?
19:47:24 <pollo> renting stuff will be kinda cheap for PC
19:47:30 <tumbleweed> or free :P
19:47:32 <wouter> pollo: highvoltage was going to borrow
19:47:35 <pollo> yeah
19:47:53 <pollo> is DebConf paying for IRILL -> Vienna -> IRILL ?
19:47:54 <wouter> tumbleweed: we can't answer that question until whoever is going to look for shipping has done their job
19:48:05 <tumbleweed> pollo: the mini-dc should
19:48:18 <tumbleweed> wouter: shipping and equipment rental
19:48:25 <pollo> so it's just shipping 5 laptops and a camera case IRILL -> CPT
19:48:36 <wouter> well, but irill only has four cameras
19:48:38 <wouter> we need six
19:48:41 <pollo> true
19:48:44 <wouter> so we also need to rent cameras in cpt
19:48:58 <tumbleweed> yes, we just actioned that
19:49:04 <pollo> still, I think 5K USD$ should be enough
19:49:05 <wouter> ah, yes, sorry
19:49:13 <wouter> pollo: at this point in time, I think it's too early to say
19:49:13 <tumbleweed> OK
19:49:18 <tumbleweed> let's revisit this in the next meeting
19:49:22 <tumbleweed> #topic next meeting
19:49:24 <wouter> yes please :-)
19:49:30 <pollo> I can make sure it happens
19:49:31 <tumbleweed> 2 weeks?
19:49:32 <tumbleweed> 1 week?
19:49:36 <pollo> 2 weeks
19:49:44 <tumbleweed> #agreed meet again, same time in two weeks
19:49:45 <pollo> now is university finals
19:49:50 <pollo> eehs
19:49:57 <pollo> I think a poll would be better
19:50:19 <wouter> pollo: that just means we need to wait another week to come to approximately the same decision
19:50:34 <wouter> let's just say same time in two weeks for now, we can always change it if it turns out to be difficult for other people
19:50:39 <tumbleweed> yeah
19:50:44 <tumbleweed> that's what I'd suggest
19:50:49 <pollo> ok fine
19:50:57 <pollo> I'll write to the list about it
19:51:05 <tumbleweed> #action pollo to announce the next meeting
19:51:08 <tumbleweed> #endmeeting