18:00:20 <pollo> #startmeeting
18:00:20 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue Jun 18 18:00:20 2019 UTC.  The chair is pollo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:00:20 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:00:25 <highvoltage> o/
18:00:26 <pollo> #topic Roll Call
18:00:36 <pollo> please say hello if you are here for the meeting
18:00:41 * wouter is here
18:00:42 <olasd> hello if you are here for the meeting
18:00:45 <highvoltage> hello if you are here for the meeting
18:00:47 <RattusRattus> "hello if you are hear"
18:00:48 <wouter> (for the first time in months)
18:00:50 <ivodd> hi
18:00:53 * DLange is just lurking
18:00:57 <RattusRattus> wouter: ack same
18:00:59 <phls> hi
18:01:00 <tumbleweed> o/
18:01:09 <pollo> also, have a look at the proposed agenda: http://deb.li/3aA7s
18:01:14 <tumbleweed> (in the middle of another meeting, but hopefully killiing that soon)
18:01:14 <lenharo_> o/
18:02:10 <pollo> seems like y'all here
18:02:23 <pollo> #topic Marseille & Hamburg post-mortem
18:02:41 <pollo> hurray for two successful events back to back!
18:03:00 <ivodd> we want more of those (events and successful ones)
18:03:11 <wouter> yeah, I think things went pretty smoothly
18:03:12 <phls> cool
18:03:15 <wouter> at least from my POV
18:03:18 <pollo> we also found a bunch of problem with our setup. It seems tobi and urbec started a shopping list already
18:03:25 <olasd> I think two weeks apart is the minimum though
18:03:28 <pollo> +1
18:03:45 <pollo> I'll action tobi and urbec to send a mail on ML pointing to a proper shopping list pad
18:03:58 <olasd> unless someone is taking the stuff from one event to the next
18:04:01 <pollo> #action tobi & urbec to send a mail on ML pointing to a proper shopping list pad
18:04:03 <wouter> I should probably add that I used the experience of configuring SReview for the two miniconfs to also document how to update things
18:04:14 <olasd> great!
18:04:15 <wouter> there's a README.miniconf (or some such) in ~sreview on vittoria
18:04:28 <wouter> (can't remember the exact filename, but you can't miss it)
18:04:51 <wouter> so hopefully that should reduce my bus factor slightly ;)
18:05:14 <pollo> so do we want to talk about what went wrong that doesn't imply buying more stuff to fix it?
18:05:30 <wouter> is there anything in that category? ;-)
18:05:44 <pollo> I was mainly thinking about the ground loop issue
18:05:47 <RattusRattus> well #1 how did the training sessions go?
18:05:57 <wouter> oh right
18:06:06 <pollo> if we have an idea of what caused that, it would be nice to record it here
18:06:39 <pollo> #info we had a ground loop problem at both the Marseille and the hamburg mini-confs
18:06:44 <RattusRattus> earth loops are unfortunatly common.  mainly caused by differing power at differant ends of a building.
18:06:55 <olasd> RattusRattus: everything was wired to the same outlet
18:07:18 <RattusRattus> olasd: including the PA system?
18:07:21 <olasd> yes
18:07:30 <ivodd> well, the issue happened without the pa system
18:07:35 <olasd> or that, yes
18:07:36 <ivodd> just the mixer, the camera and the pc
18:07:41 <wouter> is there perhaps some of our kit that's leaking to ground?
18:07:52 <wouter> that can also produce hums, IIRC
18:07:55 <ivodd> the probably suspect is the pc
18:07:58 <wouter> but I'm not the expert here
18:08:08 <pollo> I also agree the PC is the main suspect
18:08:09 <ivodd> because we tried with another mixer we borrowed, and that didn't fix it
18:08:20 <RattusRattus> it will almost certainly be the PC (not having a floating PSU)
18:08:28 <wouter> #info the PC is the main suspect
18:08:34 <ivodd> (also please not that it's nice to have a friendly AV rental company in the same building as the venue)
18:08:39 <wouter> so how do we fix that?
18:08:40 <pollo> olasd: can we action you to replace the PSU ?
18:09:01 <ivodd> well, we should try with a different pc first, to confir
18:09:02 <ivodd> m
18:09:05 <RattusRattus> no replacing PSU will not fix
18:09:12 <RattusRattus> PC PSUs are NOT issolated
18:09:29 <RattusRattus> issolation transformer may help
18:09:32 <wouter> RattusRattus: what would you suggest then?
18:09:37 <RattusRattus> ^^
18:09:48 <wouter> perhaps a UPS could help, too?
18:09:59 <olasd> (I'm not shipping either of these things)
18:10:15 <RattusRattus> no we shouldn't
18:10:16 <wouter> (and as a bonus, it would also protect us against someone tripping over cables)
18:10:25 <RattusRattus> we didn't have this problem with the Cube PC did we?
18:10:27 <wouter> olasd: mm, I imagine that might be pretty expensive, yes
18:10:36 <wouter> RattusRattus: didn't that one use a lot less power?
18:10:48 <paddatrapper> sorry I'm late
18:10:49 <RattusRattus> wouter: no idea
18:11:01 <ivodd> olasd: can confirm, but I think it's the same motherboard in a different case
18:11:06 <olasd> the guts are identical, only the case changed
18:11:13 <RattusRattus> and PSU?
18:11:18 <RattusRattus> same?
18:11:22 <pollo> yes
18:11:23 <olasd> well, yes
18:11:58 * RattusRattus will think.
18:12:09 <RattusRattus> #action RattusRattus  earth loops and PCs
18:12:10 <olasd> there's a non-zero chance that the motherboard isn't properly grounded to the case
18:12:17 <olasd> might have used the wrong screws
18:12:32 <DLange> IIRC we covered the earth on the PC power plug and that fixed it (Tobi would know for sure)
18:12:43 <olasd> yeah
18:12:45 <RattusRattus> covered?
18:12:50 <DLange> Gaffer
18:12:56 <wouter> so that it wouldn't make contact anymore?
18:12:59 <ivodd> no, disconnecting the mixer (not the pc) from earth fixed it
18:13:07 <RattusRattus> right so lifted it.  that makes sence
18:13:16 <paddatrapper> wouter: yes
18:13:22 <RattusRattus> 0V should not be mains earth
18:13:23 <ivodd> but obviously we didn't keep the setup like that
18:13:36 <pollo> #info there's a non-zero chance that the motherboard isn't properly grounded to the case (wrong screws?)
18:13:44 <RattusRattus> it should be the same potential and (possibly) common only at 1 point
18:13:47 <pollo> I don't think we'll get farther than this for now
18:14:08 <ivodd> the other big issue is the audio desync
18:14:09 <pollo> if someone has something else to add on the confs (that's not about the ground loop), please go ahead
18:14:12 <RattusRattus> chances are the mother board is 0V and should NOT be connected to the case (mains earth)
18:14:12 <olasd> ivodd: lifting the pc or the mixing desk would have the same effect (as the cameras have a double isolated power supply with no earth)
18:14:26 <ivodd> olasd: we tried lifting the pc, it didn't help
18:14:36 <olasd> ivodd: huh. interesting
18:14:42 <DLange> I'd look at the mixer though ... easier to fix than a PC PSU, these are hard to get circuit separated
18:15:00 <ivodd> even with everything (network, screen, etc) disconnected from the pc
18:15:01 <RattusRattus> DLange: aparently differant mixer was tried
18:15:04 <DLange> I don't know where the Gaffer fixed it, I just know it did :)
18:15:16 <olasd> anyway, yeah, the A/V desync issue still happens
18:15:29 * RattusRattus will take earth loop as a primary task during debconf
18:15:31 <olasd> and we still don't really understand how
18:15:42 <pollo> could someone ask CCC VOC if that also happens to them?
18:15:58 <RattusRattus> A/V desync issue?  please describe
18:16:05 <wouter> olasd: almost forgot, but FOSDEM had issues with that as well, and it *might* actually just be a bug in SReview... sorry :)
18:16:22 <wouter> can you confirm if the issue exists with the original raw files, too?
18:16:28 <olasd> it does
18:16:37 <wouter> okay, *phew*, then it's probably not me :)
18:16:42 <olasd> it's also noticeable in the voctomix gui
18:16:53 <paddatrapper> RattusRattus:audio led audio by a significant time after the stream was running for a while
18:16:58 <olasd> (if people actually listen to that)
18:16:58 <wouter> okay
18:17:21 <paddatrapper> restarting the voctomix PC fixed the issue
18:17:21 <RattusRattus> audio led audio? audio led video perhaps?
18:17:25 <pollo> yes
18:17:43 <paddatrapper> RattusRattus: yes, that one...
18:17:52 <pollo> could someone ask CCC VOC if that also happens to them? I think it would be a good way forward
18:18:15 <wouter> how much time, and how much lead?
18:18:26 <pollo> a few secs
18:18:30 <RattusRattus> ok again this is somthing to test with a camera and voctomix PC.
18:18:32 <tumbleweed> they've certainly looked into issues like this in the past
18:18:52 <pollo> tumbleweed: do you know if they found the cause or had a fix?
18:18:53 <tumbleweed> CarlFK has had test-jigs to demonstrate desync issues in the past, too
18:18:58 <olasd> maybe https://github.com/voc/voctomix/issues/58
18:18:59 <RattusRattus> almost certainly voctomix buffer paths
18:19:07 <tumbleweed> pollo: desync issues have been fixed in the past
18:19:20 <paddatrapper> or BlackMagic cards
18:19:21 <tumbleweed> and possibly regressions created, if you got new issues in hamburg :P
18:19:48 <pollo> "As far as i read the communication, there are no inter-elements in voc2mix, so this is probably not applicable anymore."
18:19:58 <pollo> so the fix on that bug issue seems to be "use voctomix 2"
18:20:22 <RattusRattus> eeek!
18:20:49 <pollo> #info we've been have audio desync issues and it might be related to https://github.com/voc/voctomix/issues/58
18:21:00 <pollo> I don't think we'll fix that today either :D
18:21:02 <olasd> sounds like an exciting project for not-this-conference
18:21:15 <wouter> it's good to have a suspect though
18:21:18 <pollo> anything to add to this topic before we move on?
18:21:25 <wouter> someone might want to experiment a bit during debcamp
18:21:28 <wouter> (if there's time)
18:21:35 <paddatrapper> I'm happy to take a look
18:21:57 <pollo> #topic DC19 - PC & server rental
18:22:23 <pollo> so I haven't seen a quote for the PCs we need
18:22:26 <pollo> but we have one for a server
18:22:28 <wouter> phls: I agree with tumbleweed on the disks -- it's probably better to have 6x2TB rather than 1x10TB
18:22:51 <wouter> some of the stuff might need to be translated a bit more though
18:22:53 <pollo> the specs proposed are:
18:22:54 <pollo> 1 Servidor Dell Power Edge R620 com 2 Processadores Xeon Six Core 2.0GHz
18:22:55 <wouter> what is a "Perc Array"?
18:22:56 <pollo> 32GB RAM
18:22:58 <pollo> 1 x Perc Array
18:23:01 <pollo> 6 x 2TB SATA Hot Plug (we are treying to change for 1 x 10TB)
18:23:03 <pollo> 6x2 sounds fine too me.
18:23:04 <pollo> 4 x 10/100/1000
18:23:07 <tumbleweed> perc is a dell hw raid
18:23:07 <olasd> wouter: a raid controller
18:23:14 <wouter> oh right
18:23:22 <tumbleweed> they're not bad
18:23:23 <olasd> white label lsi crap
18:23:28 <tumbleweed> heh
18:23:32 <wouter> lsi isn't too bad
18:23:39 <tumbleweed> configurable through linux, via non-free debs
18:23:42 <wouter> you could run them in JBOD mode and then do ZFS on top
18:23:47 <pollo> I think those specs are OK for our needs
18:23:52 <tumbleweed> or mdadm
18:23:55 <phls> wouter, actually lenharo is deal with pcs
18:23:58 <wouter> or that
18:23:58 <olasd> sorry I might be projecting my opinion of megacli :P
18:24:13 <wouter> is this server for live streaming or for transcoding?
18:24:16 <wouter> or for both? ;-)
18:24:18 <tumbleweed> I think this is for storage
18:24:21 <tumbleweed> and possibly transcoding?
18:24:28 <pollo> for everything
18:24:35 <pollo> I don't think we'll get another server onsite
18:24:36 <olasd> storage and streaming backend (so downscaling, not the primary stream encode)
18:24:39 <tumbleweed> I'm very hestitent to have everything on one machine
18:24:43 <wouter> yeah, me too
18:24:50 <wouter> we had some bad experience with that during dc17
18:25:17 <RattusRattus> I'm very hestitent to have everything on one machine
18:25:19 <tumbleweed> I have the machine we bought onsite at dc18 as a router, than I can bring
18:25:34 <olasd> however many machines we have someone is going to DoS the wrong one at the wrong time
18:25:36 <RattusRattus> ^^ didn't we say that a big enough machine running several VMs would be ok?
18:25:37 <tumbleweed> (assuming we don't need a router)
18:25:42 <pollo> tumbleweed: brazil customs might make some trouble
18:25:50 <tumbleweed> RattusRattus: ish, but that's hardly a crazy big machine
18:25:57 <wouter> olasd: I personally think we should have the live streams separate from everything else
18:26:18 * RattusRattus also preferat boxes for seporate tasks...
18:26:19 <wouter> because you don't want to kill the live streams by accidentally doing something wrong
18:26:22 <olasd> we don't need the live streams to be on site at all
18:26:25 <phls> if machine is under U$ 500, is ok bring it
18:26:44 <wouter> there is that
18:27:07 <RattusRattus> olasd: not true - if people are watching talks from hack labs etc
18:27:21 <pollo> so are we fine with the dc18 router PC + the rented server, ?
18:27:24 <RattusRattus> ^ depends on bw to / from sites
18:27:26 <wouter> (unless of course you don't have the bandwidth to push 720p, but then...)
18:28:17 <olasd> RattusRattus: the streaming backend still doesn't need to be on-site
18:28:41 <tumbleweed> olasd: it's probably a good idea, though
18:28:55 <tumbleweed> but yes, we do have some flexibility there
18:28:55 <RattusRattus> olasd: assuming there is enough bw that people watching ON site don't collapse the outgoing feed I agree
18:29:31 <RattusRattus> olasd: but nothing a bit of traffic shaping can't fix
18:29:45 <tumbleweed> which means we need a machine to shape traffic :P
18:29:48 <wouter> what kind of bandwidth will there be?
18:30:17 <RattusRattus> tumbleweed: well the router PC *shoud* do that for us right:-)
18:30:24 <RattusRattus> should even!
18:30:31 <wouter> also, isn't that something the network team can take care o?
18:30:34 <tumbleweed> depensd what we're using it for
18:30:36 <wouter> *of
18:30:39 <olasd> wouter: what network team?
18:30:48 <wouter> ehh
18:30:51 <paddatrapper> at this point, we're the network team!
18:30:56 <wouter> well, I was assuming there'd be one, but meh, okay
18:30:57 <tumbleweed> (as usual)
18:31:08 <pollo> so from that I understand, dc18 router PC + the rented server doens't make us happy
18:31:19 <RattusRattus> at the very least we should ensure that outbound stream feeds and incomming acks for said feeds is reserved bw on the router
18:31:27 <pollo> so we want another server machine
18:31:28 <tumbleweed> pollo: part of the issue here is that there are a lot of unknowns
18:31:40 <tumbleweed> pollo: and machines are like duct-tape, you use them to solve unexpected problems
18:31:44 <pollo> yes, but if the local team needs to find something else, they need to know
18:31:47 <phls> i haven't contact with network team
18:32:24 <pollo> phls: you looked for server rental. How expansive was that quote?
18:32:30 <pollo> could you get 2 of them instead?
18:32:37 <phls> lenharo, ?
18:32:42 <olasd> fwiw, there's no point having a server if we don't have PCs to put the capture cards in
18:32:59 <olasd> I'm more worried about that than anything else
18:33:02 <tumbleweed> olasd: fair point
18:33:04 <RattusRattus> olasd: +1
18:33:11 <ivodd> I added a link to the detailed quote (which also has PCs)
18:33:12 <wouter> we only need one server with loads of storage, really
18:33:29 <wouter> everything else can just be (powerful) desktop machines
18:33:42 <tumbleweed> yep
18:33:44 <wouter> so we really don't need two servers, but we need 5-10 desktops
18:33:55 <wouter> (handwavy number there)
18:34:02 * olasd checks ivodd's link
18:34:05 <tumbleweed> problem is we don't have a source to borrow from
18:34:21 <wouter> one for each room, one for the live streams, one for routing, plus a few spares
18:34:45 * RattusRattus did this work at FOSDEM sprint
18:35:02 <RattusRattus> what has changed that we are saking for somthing differant now
18:35:09 <RattusRattus> (at this late stage)
18:35:58 <phls> we can't find i7 to borrow
18:36:26 <wouter> so the server rental is 3330 BRL, which is about 770 EUR
18:36:42 <RattusRattus> ok - but the SPEC hasn't changed...
18:36:43 <wouter> (or 865 USD)
18:37:05 <wouter> phls: would the company that is renting you the server also rent out desktops?
18:37:14 <wouter> phls: alternatively, you can do the same trick that FOSDEM does:
18:37:15 <ivodd> wouter: that's for the server + 4 i7 desktop + 2 i3 desktop
18:37:17 <pollo> phls: https://salsa.debian.org/debconf-team/public/data/dc19/uploads/4e702e4d90a0c7adda2a4f8f95023fa9/ICTL_281418_ATUALIZADA.pdf also has a quote for i7
18:37:18 <olasd> they do, it's in the quote.
18:37:26 <lenharo_> 3330 BRL is to rent server R620 + 6 computers (4 I7 and 2 i3)
18:37:27 <pollo> so it seems we do have PCs
18:37:33 <wouter> ah, oops, missed that :)
18:37:35 <pollo> the network cards seem to be 10/100 though?
18:37:41 <olasd> I'm really dubious about the specs
18:38:00 <phls> these i3 are for hotel network, not for video team :-)
18:38:05 <olasd> "i7 2 GHz" sounds really really really low end
18:38:08 <DLange> can't we just borrow a few of the PCs standing around in "our" rooms anyways ... https://salsa.debian.org/debconf-team/public/share/debconf19/blob/master/photos/organization/utfpr/utfpr-lab-B108/utfpr-lab-B108-02.jpg ?
18:38:09 <wouter> anyway, the FOSDEM trick is to not rent, but buy old Lenovo X series laptops on ebay
18:38:10 <lenharo_> i have asked and they say that have 10/100/1000 network card. I have to check
18:38:11 <phls> so, R620 + 4x i7
18:38:17 <wouter> and then after the conference, sell them at cost
18:38:36 <olasd> wouter: if you can fit our capture cards in lenovo x series laptops, go right ahead
18:38:45 <wouter> ah yes
18:38:48 * wouter slaps $SELF
18:38:52 <wouter> sorry, didn't think of that bit
18:39:02 <olasd> :)
18:39:21 <wouter> is 4 i7s enough though?
18:39:36 <paddatrapper> it would leave us no spares or dev boxes
18:39:44 <wouter> that's my point
18:39:51 <pollo> 2Ghz i7s sounds like a mobile chip
18:39:54 <wouter> there's the two i3s, but I suspect those are for other purposes?
18:39:55 <tumbleweed> so, the question is: are those 6 desktops sufficient?
18:40:03 <tumbleweed> are all of them for the video team?
18:40:07 <pollo> tumbleweed: 4, the i3s are not for us
18:40:22 <tumbleweed> OK, then I'd say we should pad that out with a few more
18:40:29 <wouter> +1
18:40:30 <phls> wouter, i3 are for other purposes
18:40:34 <tumbleweed> we know we can alway use more
18:40:38 <paddatrapper> tumbleweed: 3x vocto, 1x gateway?
18:40:43 <phls> just i7 now are for video team
18:40:52 <tumbleweed> paddatrapper: that leaves 0 spare
18:40:59 <wouter> paddatrapper: plus something for the live stream, and spares
18:41:15 <paddatrapper> tumbleweed: exactly,I was talking about the existig 4
18:41:16 <tumbleweed> phls: I'd add at least 2 more. i3/i7 - I don't really care too much but i7 doesn't hurt
18:41:18 <paddatrapper> existing too
18:41:55 <pollo> ok, so to move forward:
18:41:55 <ivodd> the rent is 60 US$ for each i7, so adding a few shouldn't be an issue
18:41:56 <pollo> #agree we wan't a least 2 more i7 (6 instead of 4) and want another server
18:42:02 <phls> tumbleweed, ok, we quoted 4x i7 + 1x server because pollo had asked this number
18:42:06 <olasd> do we want another server ?
18:42:09 <wouter> pollo: eh, why do we want another server?
18:42:12 <tumbleweed> I don't think so, no
18:42:23 <pollo> really, that's what I had understoods, sorry
18:42:26 <pollo> #undo
18:42:26 <MeetBot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Agreed object at 0x1375290>
18:42:32 <RattusRattus> just the 2 extra i7s for my money
18:42:41 <wouter> yeah, that's what I thought we were talking about
18:42:44 <pollo> #agree we wan't a least 2 more i7 (6 instead of 4) (and more if possible)
18:42:51 <phls> is R620 newer than R710? :-)
18:43:04 <wouter> yeah, I was wondering about that too, doesn't look like it to me
18:43:05 <ivodd> highvoltage: yes R620 is newer than R710
18:43:10 <wouter> but Dell might be weird :)
18:43:10 <pollo> can we move forward? we still have to talk about audio
18:43:14 <wouter> sure
18:43:17 <olasd> just one last thing
18:43:20 <ivodd> R620 is the 1U variant of R720, which is newer than R710
18:43:31 <olasd> it'd be good to have the *full* specs of the machines ASAP
18:43:32 <phls> we have to check if these i7 has 2 slots PCI-E x1 slot? or 3?
18:43:49 <tumbleweed> phls: 2 slots
18:43:53 <pollo> phls: we _need_ 2 but 3 is better
18:43:57 <pollo> since we have the serial cards
18:44:09 <tumbleweed> ah, forgot about that
18:44:12 <phls> ok
18:44:42 <ivodd> also, is 28/7 ok as a return date for the server?
18:44:59 <tumbleweed> A few extra days is usually a good idea
18:45:02 <ivodd> that leaves very little time to make sure everything is done
18:45:09 <phls> sure, np
18:45:18 <phls> 28 is sunday
18:45:27 <ivodd> could someone follow up on the changes to the quote in the next few dates?
18:45:32 <ivodd> s/dates/days
18:46:01 <phls> ah, is the server ok?
18:46:06 <pollo> ivodd: can you do that?
18:46:10 <olasd> if someone can go to the rental company with a debian live usbstick and get the output of dmidecode / lspci for the i7s it'd be great
18:46:13 <phls> just change to 1x 10TB?
18:46:16 <ivodd> pollo: no
18:46:23 <tumbleweed> phls: why do we want 1x10TB?
18:46:24 <olasd> phls: 6 x 2TB is just fine
18:46:30 <wouter> phls: no, we don't need a 10TB disk
18:46:31 <tumbleweed> I'd rather have the redundancy of 6x2
18:46:34 <wouter> me too
18:46:36 <olasd> way better than 1 x 10TB
18:46:37 <paddatrapper> ivodd: I will
18:46:51 <ivodd> paddatrapper: thanks!
18:47:00 <pollo> #action paddatrapper to follow up with phls about the pc + server rental + full hw specs
18:47:03 <phls> the request was 1x 10TB. I am confirming if must be 1x 10Tb
18:47:22 <tumbleweed> no
18:47:25 <phls> but ok i got now
18:47:25 <wouter> we need 10TB storage after RAID, but we want redundancy
18:47:26 <olasd> then no, the current proposal for 6x2 is fine
18:47:29 <olasd> :)
18:47:34 <phls> ok
18:47:35 <pollo> I think we can move on now
18:47:38 <olasd> let's
18:47:41 <wouter> yeah
18:47:50 <pollo> #topic DC19 - Audio rental
18:48:25 <phls> so, I got 2 quotes
18:48:41 <phls> one with all, and one missing equips
18:49:35 <RattusRattus> the beringer  RX1202FX
18:49:38 <phls> as I explained to some of you before, its hard get rent quotes here. For a lot of reasons
18:49:38 <paddatrapper> the Behringer RX1202FX will not work for us
18:49:39 <RattusRattus> NOT SUITABLE
18:49:48 <paddatrapper> heh jinx
18:50:16 <phls> paddatrapper, why? just to know
18:50:23 <paddatrapper> We also need 2x Behinger DI100 per room (so 6 in total) as they are mono
18:50:23 <RattusRattus> not got sliders
18:50:34 <wouter> yeah, we definitely need those :)
18:50:37 <pollo> we need 3 mixers anyway
18:50:40 <phls> paddatrapper, the request was 3, one per room
18:50:46 <RattusRattus> pollo: 2 mixers at venue already
18:50:51 <pollo> ah sorry
18:50:54 <paddatrapper> we need sliders and desk-top, not rack mount
18:51:09 <paddatrapper> phls: 3x stereo, or 6x mono
18:51:43 <RattusRattus> on your buy list (not that we want to buy) the Yamaha MG12XUK is also not a suitable mixer (same reason)
18:52:04 <phls> paddatrapper, about RX1202FX could yot explain me why is not ok (I have to explain to them)
18:52:30 <paddatrapper> phls: we need desk-top mixers with sliders, not rackmount with no sliders
18:52:31 <wouter> phls: the RX1202FX does not have sliders to correct individual channel volumes
18:52:32 <RattusRattus> phls: we need sliders not knobs for each channel
18:53:11 <tumbleweed> RattusRattus: it looks like it has sliders
18:53:26 <wouter> tumbleweed: no -- https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RX1202FX--behringer-eurorack-pro-rx1202fx-rackmount-mixer-with-effects
18:53:29 <tumbleweed> (between the knobs, which is eww)
18:53:41 <RattusRattus> https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Yamaha+MG12XUK
18:53:56 <paddatrapper> also no submix/aux bus
18:53:59 <olasd> wouter: I see sliders on this picture
18:54:08 <wouter> oh yes, indeed
18:54:08 <tumbleweed> missing submix is a problem
18:54:08 <wouter> ugly
18:54:13 <tumbleweed> rackmount is annoying
18:54:16 <paddatrapper> tumbleweed: you're right, missed them
18:55:01 <wouter> anyway, phls:  RattusRattus' link shows a mixing console that is similar to what we need
18:55:15 <paddatrapper> phls: we need submix (the ability to route some channels to a submix that is a separate output from the main out)
18:55:16 <wouter> (doesn't have to be that one, but one that has the same functionality)
18:55:19 <phls> and the MG12XU?
18:55:27 <RattusRattus> wouter: NO that link was for the NOT suitable yamaha mixer (no sliders)
18:55:34 <tumbleweed> err the MG12XUK does not have sliders
18:55:37 <wouter> oh?
18:55:56 <wouter> ah yes, sorry, bad resolution here
18:56:05 <RattusRattus> It would be suitable for us but would really throw new volenteers
18:56:29 <phls> and Soundcraft signature12 ?
18:56:36 <RattusRattus> Soundcraft signature12 is great mixer
18:56:37 <wouter> ah, eh, actually, the photos that I see don't have the XUK one, only the XU
18:56:40 <wouter> which does have sliders
18:56:41 <wouter> hence my confusion :)
18:56:42 <paddatrapper> The MG12XU has sliders
18:56:59 <phls> ok, lets split. First, the mixer
18:57:00 <wouter> yup
18:57:19 <phls> the 2 mixers for rent are not good of us?
18:57:35 <paddatrapper> no
18:57:53 <wouter> phls: the MG12XU is fine
18:58:00 <wouter> the MG12XUK is not, but that's not in the quote
18:58:09 <wouter> the Behringer is not fine
18:58:12 <phls> ok. If I can't find other model, can we buy Soundcraft signature12?
18:58:47 <RattusRattus> ??? STOP please
18:59:11 <RattusRattus> 1/ storm list HAS Yamaha MG12XUK  NOT Yamaha MG12XU
18:59:29 <RattusRattus> 1x Mixer: Behringer RX1202FX IS NOT SUITABLE
18:59:32 <wouter> RattusRattus: no, it has XU here
18:59:52 <wouter> unless someone changed things, the quote says MG12XU
19:00:02 <paddatrapper> phls: which was the original quote for?
19:00:19 <RattusRattus> ok yes.  buy has XUK rent has XU
19:00:20 <phls> checking
19:00:29 <RattusRattus> that is an important differance
19:00:37 <wouter> yes, indeed
19:00:42 <RattusRattus> but we don't want to buy anything do we?
19:00:45 <phls> MG12XU
19:00:55 <wouter> phls: that one is fine
19:01:10 <paddatrapper> RattusRattus: ideally, no
19:01:25 <RattusRattus> ok MG12XU would be fine
19:01:30 <phls> is MG12XU  ok?
19:01:34 <RattusRattus> yes
19:01:35 <paddatrapper> phls: yes
19:01:36 <wouter> phls: yes
19:01:39 <phls> ok :-)
19:01:50 <phls> now, DI box. I have 2 models
19:01:56 <RattusRattus> phew - sorry too many things at once I was struggling to keep up
19:02:27 <phls> DI20  and  DI100
19:02:36 <paddatrapper> The behringer DI100 are mono, so we need 6
19:02:45 <paddatrapper> the DI20 are stereo, so only need 3
19:02:46 <wouter> RattusRattus: ah, yes, I missed the XUK in the "buy" quote, sorry
19:02:49 <phls> and DI20?
19:02:52 <RattusRattus> DI-20 we would need 3    DI-100 we would need 6
19:03:00 <phls> ok 3x DI20
19:03:21 <phls> now, mics
19:03:38 <phls> Shure BLX4 J10 and Shure BLX4 M15 are ok?
19:04:10 <olasd> that's missing the specification for the microphones themselves
19:04:29 <olasd> (i.e. this is only the reciever type and frequency band)
19:04:40 <phls> humm
19:04:43 <paddatrapper> The J10 and M15 are the mic models
19:04:48 <olasd> they are?
19:04:57 <RattusRattus> both are fine assiming that they are the correct radio freq. for brazil
19:05:28 <phls> yes
19:05:33 * paddatrapper tries to navigate the sure website...
19:05:39 <wouter> https://shop-us.shure.com/p/blx4-j10 shows only a pic of the receiver
19:05:42 <RattusRattus> https://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/Shure-BLX4E-S8-Wireless-Receiver/27I1?origin=product-ads&utm_campaign=PLA+Shop+-+Shure&utm_medium=vertical_search&network=google&adgroup=2+-+Brand+Level+-+Shure&merchant_id=1279443&product_id=103033d1&product_country=GB&product_partition_id=84412766959&gclid=Cj0KCQjwl6LoBRDqARIsABllMSbkj5zNXEr3deBY0FNbu-J5ZhsWHIS19fz-9dNeE_zFPh5ITva9qhIaAl-KEALw_wcB
19:05:45 <olasd> paddatrapper: I'm certain that J10 and M15 are frequency bands
19:05:46 <wouter> are we sure of that?
19:06:33 <paddatrapper> olasd: sorry, you are right
19:06:46 <paddatrapper> phls: we need the mic models
19:07:08 <phls> ok, the other company has:  Shure PGX - PG30 and Shure PGX - SM58
19:07:11 <paddatrapper> j10 = 584-600MHz
19:07:20 <olasd> SM58 is what we have
19:07:27 <olasd> (handheld microphones)
19:07:40 <paddatrapper> phls: the PG30 are OK, but not great
19:07:55 <olasd> PG30 will be, yeah, acceptable
19:08:00 <RattusRattus> the shure BLX range is a suitable product - is it safe to assume that if hired in brazil for use in brazil then they will supply us with the correct frequancy band veraint of the blx?
19:08:12 <phls> yes
19:08:21 <wouter> I would think so...
19:08:24 <RattusRattus> SM58 is nice
19:08:25 <phls> they work here
19:08:32 <p2-mate> yeah, SM58 is good
19:08:53 <RattusRattus> SM58 is default vocal mic for *everything*
19:09:00 <phls> if I looking for a better model to head, what should I looking for?
19:09:06 <p2-mate> indeed..
19:09:55 <paddatrapper> phls: I'll find a model and send it to you
19:10:06 <phls> paddatrapper, cool
19:10:11 <pollo> #action paddatrapper to validate the new audio list quote done by phls
19:10:29 <phls> so, the Omni-Direcional: one company has Behringer C3
19:10:32 <phls> is it ok?
19:11:20 <RattusRattus> it will do
19:11:23 <paddatrapper> phls: yes, C3 is find
19:11:26 <paddatrapper> fine
19:11:41 <wouter> the omnis aren't the most crucial mics, anyway :)
19:12:05 <phls> I had asked, but i didn't get an aswer. Does video team has  omnis to bring?
19:12:23 <olasd> we have four
19:12:26 <paddatrapper> phls: MX158 headworn mic is perfect or Beta54
19:12:27 <phls> I saw 2 in Hamburg
19:12:29 <RattusRattus> olasd: ^^ the ones we have are small....
19:12:34 <olasd> they are
19:12:49 <RattusRattus> feel like smuggling them in your baggage?
19:13:02 <ivodd> well, they can go in one of the boxes (and on the list for customs)
19:13:06 <olasd> I won't smuggle anything, I'll do temporary import paperwork like everything else
19:13:11 <RattusRattus> :-)
19:13:15 <phls> don't worry, if thy are < U$ 500, you can bring them
19:13:32 <ivodd> didn't we put the onmi's in the box with the old camera's? we could put them in the new camera boxes
19:13:33 <wouter> phls: olasd is likely to bring a lot of stuff ;)
19:13:50 <phls> so, we need just 2 omnis?
19:14:25 <RattusRattus> 2 per ROOM
19:14:28 <olasd> please rent 6 if you can, it's not going to make a huge difference to the bottom line
19:14:39 <wouter> RattusRattus: yes, but we just said we own four
19:14:43 <wouter> so that plus two is six
19:14:46 <phls> olasd, not for the price, but to find them for rent here
19:14:46 <paddatrapper> if you can find 2, you'll be able to find 6
19:15:03 <phls> paddatrapper, not true
19:15:15 <phls> you insist tell me this
19:15:16 <RattusRattus> SM58s would work fine in this role as well and EVERY PA hire co will have them
19:15:58 <phls> BTW, venue has wired mic, they can be used as "ominis"?
19:16:09 <RattusRattus> yes just seen that -
19:16:15 <wouter> that might work too
19:16:19 <phls> ok
19:16:23 <wouter> anything else about audio?
19:16:24 <RattusRattus> DECISION lets use 6 of venue's SM58 as omni mics
19:16:31 <paddatrapper> sounds good
19:17:08 <phls> so, the Tripod Manfroto 501HDV are ok?
19:17:30 <RattusRattus> yes they are fine
19:17:38 <wouter> anything manfroto is fine :)
19:17:39 <RattusRattus> very nice tripods
19:17:54 <phls> cool :-)
19:18:13 <phls> do you have a photo to Microphone clip?? :-)
19:18:42 <paddatrapper> phls: they're for the omni's, so just need standard SM58 mic clips now
19:18:59 <phls> ah nic
19:19:01 <phls> nice
19:19:08 <phls> thats all
19:19:22 <paddatrapper> https://www.pssl.com/images/ProdImage01/1500/MP-MIC-CLIP.jpg
19:19:23 <phls> I will review and talk with the suppliers to know about the mics
19:19:24 <RattusRattus> and I assume that we can use the venuse's MIC stands for that as well
19:19:36 <wouter> I would hope so :)
19:19:36 <phls> RattusRattus, yes
19:19:48 <phls> they have MIC stands
19:19:57 <RattusRattus> ack
19:20:11 <wouter> can we move on then? getting hungry here ;-)
19:20:26 <phls> i wil try rent all from the same supplier, but maybe we have to get from two
19:20:32 <pollo> how are people feeling? Should we adjurn and set another meeting date or go on?
19:20:37 <pollo> I'm kinda tired
19:21:03 <RattusRattus> happy either way
19:21:06 <wouter> I can continue if necessary, but wouldn't complain about adjourning for now
19:21:23 <olasd> phls: two suppliers is fine; basically renting the GIGA stuff (pending confirmation on the microphone models) + tripods from the other supplier would be fine
19:21:31 <olasd> (IMO)
19:21:36 <paddatrapper> I am tired, though also happy to continue if needed
19:21:40 <phls> olasd, ok
19:21:53 <pollo> let,s promise to keep chatter down and power through
19:22:02 <phls> I think its important talk about  - DC19 - Remote speakers
19:22:02 <wouter> the other two points are fairly small though, I'd suggest to just get it over with
19:22:15 <pollo> #topic  DC19 - Remote speakers
19:22:17 <phls> because content team depends of this
19:22:27 <pollo> Terceiro says one of the speakers want to do a remote presentation. Do we want to do that?
19:22:34 <olasd> who is it?
19:22:40 <pollo> does it matter?
19:22:45 <olasd> yes
19:22:48 <wouter> it might, yes
19:22:55 <RattusRattus> interactive presentation - NO
19:22:55 <terceiro> Ben Hutchings. He just asked, and I relayed the query
19:22:56 <olasd> we can get a sense of how much they would be willing to work with us
19:23:03 <terceiro> TBH I don't expect you to do this
19:23:06 <RattusRattus> single ended with IRC questions - yes
19:23:15 <pollo> ^^ that's what I'm proposing
19:23:24 <pollo> but I won,t be there
19:23:29 <pollo> so it's up to you folks
19:23:38 <terceiro> if you are willing to do it, then I can also propose to other speaker who had to cancel his trip
19:23:41 <phls> calling to Giga...
19:23:42 <wouter> Ben used to be in the video team too, so I think he would not ask us unnecessary things
19:24:13 <wouter> but yeah, it's going to be complicated
19:24:21 <RattusRattus> OK but we need to confirm that we can get his stream working during debcamp....
19:24:53 <wouter> yes, indeed
19:25:02 <terceiro> I would expect he to be willing to do some previous prep work on his side
19:25:04 <wouter> so I'd say "probably" for now, pending tests during debcamp?
19:25:07 * RattusRattus wonders how easy it is to just run a video chat client on the voctomix PC
19:25:24 <wouter> actually, that's not a bad idea
19:25:28 <olasd> or anyone's laptop
19:25:29 <terceiro> I would need to know now if I can add it to the schedule
19:25:37 <wouter> someone runs a video chat program on a laptop
19:25:46 <wouter> we capture that as though it's a slides thing
19:25:51 <wouter> and run the audio into the mixer
19:25:52 <pollo> or on the turbot
19:25:53 <RattusRattus> terceiro: put it in the schedule - we can always pull it if it doesn't work
19:25:57 <wouter> there's your talk
19:26:25 <wouter> jitsi works pretty well, is free software, and only requires a web browser
19:26:28 <pollo> so, does anyone disagree with single-ended stream + IRC questions ?
19:26:33 <RattusRattus> wouter: ack - that would work.
19:26:36 <wouter> I think that's fine?
19:26:38 <olasd> it really doesn't sound like a *hard* technical challenge, and I feel Ben is a good guinea pig
19:26:47 <wouter> olasd: indeed
19:26:52 <terceiro> so only him then? :-)
19:26:59 <wouter> terceiro: for now
19:27:04 <RattusRattus> and I guess wookey if he insists as well
19:27:12 <wouter> terceiro: if it works well, we can make it a standard thing
19:27:17 <terceiro> sounds good
19:27:22 <olasd> great
19:27:24 <wouter> let's call Ben's talk an "experiment"
19:27:33 <pollo> #agree we can do single-ended video streams + IRC questions for Ben Hutching's talk
19:27:34 * RattusRattus thinks we will need this and better for next year
19:27:43 <wouter> yeah
19:27:50 <pollo> #topic DC19 -  Misc
19:27:55 <RattusRattus> but this is a good 1st step
19:28:10 <pollo> the only question I had in this topic is about shipping our gear
19:28:23 <pollo> to see if there is some blocker we should work on
19:28:39 <olasd> so when the admin drones validate my copy/paste of the debconf program on the website I should have plane tickets
19:29:27 <wouter> fwiw, I won't be at dc19
19:29:32 <wouter> I hope to make it to dc20 next year
19:29:34 <olasd> people should review the packing list
19:29:52 <wouter> but I can redo the dc18 trick where I configure SReview remotely
19:29:57 <RattusRattus> olasd: post me a link and I'll do that
19:30:08 <pollo> #info olasd will bring the gear with him
19:30:09 <olasd> RattusRattus: I believe you posted it on list originally
19:30:18 <olasd> I'll stick it on a pad
19:30:24 <olasd> and we can amend/extend
19:30:33 <RattusRattus> olasd: ye but I am assuming things have changed since
19:30:37 <pollo> #action olasd to send the gear list on the ML for review
19:30:52 <pollo> anything else to add in this topic
19:30:53 <pollo> ?
19:30:59 <olasd> I also only have 2 opsises and people keep assuming I have more
19:31:06 <olasd> people should stop doing that
19:31:15 <wouter> where are the other ones then?
19:31:25 <RattusRattus> I have one
19:31:26 <olasd> one with RattusRattus one with phls
19:31:32 <wouter> oh right
19:31:32 <RattusRattus> and will bring it
19:31:33 <olasd> and I think one with tumbleweed or paddatrapper
19:31:43 <paddatrapper> I don't have one anymore
19:32:02 <paddatrapper> it went back with highvoltage at some point
19:32:20 <wouter> well, we don't need all five, we can track it down at a later point ;)
19:32:28 <olasd> then one in nature somewhere :P
19:32:35 <wouter> hehe :)
19:32:46 <RattusRattus> if I don't need to bring it I won't (xs baggage charge if i do)
19:32:57 <phls> one is here
19:33:14 <wouter> that's three, should be enough
19:33:31 <pollo> we need 4 in case something happens
19:33:36 <olasd> RattusRattus: you don't have to bring it with the rackmount case
19:33:49 <RattusRattus> olasd: ack ok will carry
19:33:58 <paddatrapper> let's try track down the other one. May be easier to bring for whoever has it
19:34:11 <pollo> #info we'll have 2 opsis from France, 1 from Brazil and 1 spare from Rattus
19:34:11 <wouter> paddatrapper: yeah, but we don't need to do that now
19:34:12 <tumbleweed> sorry, on another call again. Catching up...
19:34:13 <olasd> well the advantage of the other one is the small case indeed
19:34:14 <RattusRattus> all done?
19:34:22 <tumbleweed> ah, yeah, can bring an opsis
19:34:30 <paddatrapper> wouter: true
19:34:33 <tumbleweed> and a netv2
19:34:35 <paddatrapper> and there it is :)
19:34:41 <wouter> well, that helps :)
19:34:49 <olasd> alright
19:34:56 <olasd> that's all for me
19:34:57 <pollo> sounds like we're done
19:35:15 <RattusRattus> add next week for a meeting (and go weekly from now till DC>)
19:35:17 <tumbleweed> RattusRattus: if you're bringing an opsis, I'll just bring the netv2 + router?
19:35:18 <pollo> I'll send a mail on the ML for the next meeting
19:35:23 <RattusRattus> tumbleweed: ack
19:35:43 <wouter> pollo: that works
19:35:48 <pollo> #endmeeting