17:59:18 <paddatrapper> #startmeeting
17:59:18 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue Jun 16 17:59:18 2020 UTC.  The chair is paddatrapper. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:59:18 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
17:59:27 <paddatrapper> Agenda: http://deb.li/oNCD
17:59:32 <pollo> 0/
17:59:34 <tumbleweed> o/
17:59:37 <olasd> \o
17:59:43 <ivodd> hi
18:00:42 <samyak-jn[m]> Heyy o/
18:00:50 <paddatrapper> #topic Online Minidebconf Review
18:01:02 <matthewboi> o/
18:01:11 <paddatrapper> My notes of the miniconf - https://storm.debian.net/shared/GocW9F49JKgZqxwP0elMicqbHm-8L3RuAmoDOM8YLny
18:02:08 <pollo> how was the load on the jitsi/jibri instance?
18:02:13 <pollo> network and cpu
18:02:37 <paddatrapper> The main resource hog was Jibri, highvoltage should have the numbers though
18:03:10 <paddatrapper> Jitsi was faily light, even when we have ~20 people in the room
18:03:18 * nattie is here but half occupied
18:03:28 <phls> hi
18:05:31 <paddatrapper> I think we have covered most of the technical things before and I'm sure we will encounter them again in the next topic
18:06:04 <paddatrapper> Are there any other things to note that aren't in the storm pad?
18:07:11 <tumbleweed> I wonder if we colud build more lua plugins to make it do what we want
18:07:31 <pollo> for prosody?
18:07:44 <paddatrapper> depends what we need it to do I guess
18:08:17 <tumbleweed> paddatrapper: yeah
18:08:20 <tumbleweed> err pollo
18:08:57 <tumbleweed> that said, I don't know what role prosody plays in jitsi meet
18:09:03 <pollo> the main thing I would like is individual participants feeds into vocto, but that's not prosody, that jitsi-videobride (SFU) IIRC
18:09:31 <pollo> IIUC prosody does auth + chat
18:09:35 <paddatrapper> yeah, that would be videobridge
18:09:50 <ivodd> also, that's later in the agenda
18:10:01 <tumbleweed> moving on then?
18:10:02 <highvoltage> hello o/ sorry have a headache so I'll catch up / reply tomorrow
18:10:22 <paddatrapper> #topic DC20 Online
18:10:38 <paddatrapper> Tracking progress
18:11:03 <pollo> yea to all ?
18:11:16 <paddatrapper> +1
18:11:18 <tumbleweed> probably
18:11:34 <olasd> could you c/p items from the agenda so we know what we're talking about?
18:11:45 <tumbleweed> shall we create a dc20-online salsa repo for this?
18:11:46 <paddatrapper> Regular IRC meetings
18:11:50 <paddatrapper> Online sprint
18:11:53 <paddatrapper> Test runs
18:11:58 <paddatrapper> Using salsa issues
18:12:00 <pollo> I don't think we'll manage if we don't meet regularly, have clear objectives and test shit waaay in advance
18:12:10 <ivodd> pollo++
18:12:15 <olasd> so, weekly meetings from now on?
18:12:23 <pollo> wfm
18:12:27 <samyak-jn[m]> +1
18:12:43 <pollo> tumbleweed: in the debconf-video-group or elsewhere?
18:12:45 <paddatrapper> Sounds good, though can we shift to Thursdays?
18:12:58 <samyak-jn[m]> (though this is my first meeting here)
18:13:06 <tumbleweed> pollo: I was thinking debconf-data
18:13:15 <olasd> having it farther from the debconf team meeting sounds good in general
18:13:19 <matthewboi> wfm
18:13:27 <tumbleweed> +1
18:13:28 <pollo> tumbleweed: if we're not putting scripts and shit there that works
18:13:48 <tumbleweed> pollo: I mean, for the salsa issues bit
18:13:49 <olasd> I'll put scripts and shit wherever I please :P
18:14:08 <tumbleweed> (but ideally in ansible)
18:14:15 <tumbleweed> (although maybe dc20 will go to fast for that)
18:14:18 <paddatrapper> #agreed regular meetings on Thursdays at 18:00 UTC
18:14:40 <pollo> jitsi + ansible is a real PITA
18:14:52 <pollo> jitsi + cfg management in general
18:15:01 <tumbleweed> Created: https://salsa.debian.org/debconf-team/public/data/dc20-online
18:15:13 <paddatrapper> Yeah we're still working on getting the debian social jitsi instance in config management
18:15:21 <olasd> got an idea of a timeframe for the sprint?
18:15:28 <paddatrapper> #agreed track issues here - https://salsa.debian.org/debconf-team/public/data/dc20-online
18:15:35 <tumbleweed> (and granted maintainer rights to the video team)
18:15:53 <paddatrapper> olasd: I'm available any time after the 1st week of July
18:16:07 <olasd> I was about to suggest early july
18:16:22 <olasd> which leaves us time to poke at things before we get a more focused sprint done?
18:16:43 <pollo> paddatrapper: is that after the 29th-5th ot  6th to 12th ?
18:16:49 <olasd> (or to not poke at things and rush through a more focused sprint)
18:16:50 <paddatrapper> State of the Map is 4th and 5th July. Once that is over I'm freed up a lot
18:16:52 <olasd> (ahem)
18:17:23 <paddatrapper> I should know on Wednesday how similar a stack we will be using for that
18:17:36 <olasd> I suspect your feedback from SOTM will also be useful, whatever the stack you're using will be
18:17:39 <pollo> anyway, that time frame wfm
18:18:03 <paddatrapper> #agreed online sprint during early July
18:18:04 <olasd> when does cfp end?
18:18:35 <tumbleweed> https://debconf20.debconf.org/schedule/important-dates/
18:18:39 <olasd> thanks
18:18:44 <tumbleweed> end of july
18:19:01 <tumbleweed> err
18:19:01 <paddatrapper> #info CfP end 31 July
18:19:02 <olasd> feels late
18:19:04 <tumbleweed> that seems to be wrong
18:19:05 <tumbleweed> https://debconf20.debconf.org/cfp/
18:19:09 <tumbleweed> Submission deadline: Sunday, July 5th Acceptance notification: Monday, July 20th
18:19:13 <paddatrapper> #undo
18:19:13 <MeetBot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Link object at 0x11c5c90>
18:19:18 <olasd> yeah that sounds more like it
18:19:23 <paddatrapper> #info CfP end 5 July
18:19:33 <olasd> one month to have people submit a pre-recording sounds better
18:19:40 <olasd> (submit and check and ...)
18:19:53 <pollo> Content format?
18:20:07 <olasd> sorry, last point in this sub-item: test runs
18:20:38 <paddatrapper> Definitely a good idea
18:20:55 <paddatrapper> Could do a microconf testing the stack
18:21:00 <olasd> I think that could be the goal of the sprint: by the end of things, being able to do a test-run for a full track
18:21:03 <paddatrapper> or just demo talks
18:21:14 <olasd> well, for a full block of talks + bofs
18:21:33 <paddatrapper> Yeah, and then expand after the sprint to multiple tracks
18:21:46 <olasd> if there's enough content to have to do that
18:21:53 <olasd> (which we'll know by the time of the sprint)
18:22:14 <paddatrapper> true, that we shall
18:22:23 <paddatrapper> #agreed goal of the sprint: by the end of things, being able to do a test-run for a full track
18:22:35 <olasd> s/full track/block of talks :p/
18:22:43 <paddatrapper> #undo
18:22:43 <MeetBot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Agreed object at 0x10b7150>
18:22:54 <paddatrapper> #agreed goal of the sprint: by the end of things, being able to do a test-run for a block of talks
18:22:55 <paddatrapper> :)
18:23:02 <paddatrapper> Content format
18:23:26 <olasd> (could do with some #topics)
18:23:40 <paddatrapper> #topic DC20 Online - Content Format
18:24:07 * terceiro tunes in
18:24:18 <paddatrapper> What content formats do we want to support? Prerecorded talks, live presentations, live bof-style discussion with multiple 'main' participants/presenters
18:24:27 <paddatrapper> and how do we do questions
18:24:42 <olasd> so, I think there's two main types of content we'll have: talks and BoFs.
18:25:22 <tumbleweed> there are also the in-between panel style events. e.g. meet the tech-ctte
18:25:30 <tumbleweed> (lots of questions, but main presenters)
18:25:37 <olasd> right
18:26:11 <pollo> I think for regular talks, we should strongly recommend folks to prerecord and do a live QA
18:26:14 <olasd> for talks, my opinion is that the best quality for attendees (and for posterity) would be provided by a pre-recording
18:26:34 <paddatrapper> +1
18:26:48 <olasd> (even though that's more logistics for presenters)
18:27:01 <paddatrapper> While the live was nice during MDCO, there were lots of issues there
18:27:18 <olasd> (and, arguably, for us; people will need to watch all this content beforehand)
18:27:35 <paddatrapper> Live questions would be good
18:27:49 <terceiro> TBH every other online event is just live. if things happen, they happen
18:28:01 <terceiro> I agree that pre-recording gets better quality
18:28:04 <pollo> I feel the best way for us to enforce this would have folks that want to do a live talk ask us first if they can
18:28:11 <terceiro> but it's more upfront work for everyone
18:28:14 <olasd> terceiro: the only online event that I've seen go fully live was MDCO
18:28:18 <pollo> otherwise I think a large majority will go with live
18:28:34 <terceiro> olasd: really? my experience if the opposite
18:28:37 <paddatrapper> pollo: +1
18:29:08 <pollo> we can vet with them if they have a stable network connection, good audio + video, etc. and then say yes
18:29:13 <olasd> all academic conferences I've had friends present at asked for pre-recordings; I've seen some infosec conferences do that too
18:29:48 <olasd> most LGM events were pre-recorded too
18:30:44 <ivodd> so for talks we strongly recommend recordings
18:30:48 <pollo> I think for talks, the QA part can be either live or IRC, I don't really mind
18:31:06 <pollo> live as in "presenter is live, folks ask questions on IRC"
18:31:26 <paddatrapper> #agreed regular talks should be pre-recorded and people can request to do it live if they really want to
18:31:27 <tumbleweed> written questions in IRC seems more manageable, yes
18:31:31 <pollo> I don't think we want to have to deal with people asking questions on Jitsi
18:31:32 <ivodd> we should set a deadline for receiving the recording, so we get them more than 5 minutes before the talk
18:32:11 <terceiro> but bofs/panels/etc need to be live by definitions - isn't it easier to have just 1 way of doing things?
18:32:16 <tumbleweed> ivodd: +1 probably before the start of the conference?
18:32:22 <paddatrapper> #agreed questions in IRC with the presenter answering live
18:32:33 <olasd> terceiro: the one way we had of doing things was really not great
18:32:35 <ivodd> tumbleweed: we don't have to set that deadline now, we just have to set it before the talks are approved
18:33:01 <olasd> tumbleweed, ivodd: my gut says at least 15 days after acceptance notification
18:33:07 <pollo> agreed, we want to check the videos to see if everything is OK first :)
18:33:25 <tumbleweed> well I'm busy hacking on important-dates right now, so I'll do that
18:33:53 <tumbleweed> August 16th? (one week before the conference starts)
18:34:02 <pollo> terceiro: bofs by definition are kinda janky anyway, I don't mind that much if they go haywire
18:34:16 <terceiro> I feel the video team is signing up for a lot of upfront work, but I'll shut up
18:34:27 <pollo> pannels we can take time with presenters in advance to make sure everything is ok
18:34:29 <paddatrapper> #agreed recordings are needed on August 16
18:34:54 <pollo> terceiro: imo it's the same stack, but we press play in ffmpeg for pre-recorded talks
18:34:55 <tumbleweed> terceiro: playing a recording feels like something that *should* be simple :P
18:35:00 <olasd> tumbleweed: lol
18:35:13 <paddatrapper> #agreed BoFs and panels happen live and issues are dealt with as they come up
18:35:17 <paddatrapper> tumbleweed: famous last words?
18:35:24 <terceiro> yes but pre-reviewing N recordings is not
18:35:54 <pollo> oh, we can call upon folks that review talks for that!
18:36:04 <pollo> play it 10x or something
18:36:27 <tumbleweed> nattie: this is where your speaker support team comes in, right?
18:36:51 <pollo> one thing is certain, we need a "how to record a video" guide
18:36:51 <tumbleweed> I'd expect video team just reviews for technical details, and probably doesn't play through every talk
18:37:28 <terceiro> I hope to be wrong
18:37:47 <pollo> I think we'll need an android and a Debian version too
18:38:01 <tumbleweed> I would expect a number of our speakers would be lazy and just wing it with live presentations
18:38:50 <ivodd> I guess we can move on
18:39:01 <phls> some tutorial for people record thei talks?
18:39:01 <paddatrapper> Probably can get the speaker support team to develop a how to guide
18:39:10 <ivodd> that's later on the agenda
18:39:20 <olasd> *nod*
18:39:39 <paddatrapper> #topic DC20 Online - Streaming
18:40:02 <paddatrapper> I strongly suggest we put Vocto or something similar between Jitsi and the stream
18:40:14 <paddatrapper> it also allows us to play recorded talks easily
18:40:18 <pollo> +1
18:40:25 <pollo> we'll need to deal with the latency issue though
18:40:28 <olasd> +1000
18:40:44 <paddatrapper> How much latency does it add? Has someone tested it?
18:40:46 <tumbleweed> VNC and telnet are also options there
18:40:51 <tumbleweed> pollo did some testing
18:41:09 <olasd> well, do we? we don't have to have previews for everything
18:41:11 <pollo> I tested how feasible it was to run voctogui locally and voctocore remote
18:41:11 <paddatrapper> ah latency between VoctoGUI and core
18:41:23 <pollo> not a great idea
18:41:25 <olasd> we could have a few presets and buttons to switch between them
18:41:50 <pollo> olasd: how would the director see what happens?
18:41:51 <ivodd> if it's only for switching between a recording and a jitsi room, it's probably not a big issue
18:42:05 <pollo> on the stream, we can expect ~30s delay
18:42:12 <ivodd> if you want to switch between multiple streams (from multiple presenters), that's a different issue
18:42:18 <ivodd> (but we can't do that now anyway)
18:42:25 <paddatrapper> pollo: ok that's about the same as Jitsi streaming anyway
18:42:42 <pollo> paddatrapper: that's just ballpark numbers from previous DC
18:42:51 <paddatrapper> ah
18:42:52 <pollo> I didn't test anything streaming related
18:43:34 <tumbleweed> we can get a lower latency rtmp stream out of the nginx though, right?
18:43:39 <olasd> yes
18:43:57 <paddatrapper> #agreed have something (vocto probably) between Jitsi and the stream
18:44:29 <paddatrapper> If we encourage people to ask questions throughout the talk and collate, then the latency isn't as much of an issue
18:44:35 <pollo> if we get a decent stream latency, I guess we can manage voctocore in a terminal without a UI
18:44:41 <paddatrapper> Though it doesn't help for followup questions
18:44:45 <olasd> pollo: to do simple switching between jibri, loop and recording, the director doesn't need full live previews
18:44:51 <ivodd> tumbleweed: that's the next item on the agenda: 'Does anyone want to try to setup an alternative streaming stack (in addition to the one we have) with lower latency'
18:44:56 <olasd> only three buttons and maybe a still for each
18:45:05 <olasd> (updated every second or 5)
18:45:22 <tumbleweed> ivodd: I wasn't thinking of that as an alternative stack
18:45:28 <pollo> olasd: would that mean writing a client?
18:45:30 <tumbleweed> but rather that the video director doesn't need to be behind the 30 delay
18:45:33 <olasd> pollo: yes
18:46:06 <pollo> 3 CLI commands sounds simpler, but if people want to do that I'm not against it :)
18:46:10 <ivodd> tumbleweed: right, but if it works for the director, how much more work would it be to make it work for others as well?
18:46:35 <olasd> yeah, we can start with cli commands
18:46:58 <pollo> I've played with that before, action me for it plz
18:47:12 <olasd> btw, fosdem has a voctomix web UI
18:47:21 <pollo> hmm, interesting
18:47:23 <paddatrapper> #action pollo to develop CLI commands to work with voctocore
18:47:23 <olasd> well, a skeleton of a voctomix web ui
18:47:31 <paddatrapper> that is very interesting
18:47:45 <pollo> can we get an #info?
18:47:46 <paddatrapper> #info FOSDEM has a skelton votomix web UI
18:47:49 <pollo> I'll also check that
18:47:59 <olasd> #link https://github.com/krokodilerian/vocto-web-mix/
18:48:05 <paddatrapper> #chair pollo
18:48:05 <MeetBot> Current chairs: paddatrapper pollo
18:48:09 <paddatrapper> :P
18:48:24 <olasd> but it's really what I was thinking of: 3 buttons, and some stills for sources refreshed every second or so
18:48:28 <pollo> #action pollo to check the FOSDEM vocto web client too
18:49:01 <paddatrapper> #topic DC20 Online - Video Stack
18:49:10 <pollo> olasd: would you have time to try and test stream latency?
18:49:24 <pollo> to see how low we can get on the geolocated frontends
18:50:01 <olasd> paddatrapper: you skipped the latency subpoint
18:50:15 <paddatrapper> #topic DC20 Online - Streaming
18:50:17 <paddatrapper> So I did
18:50:18 <olasd> and, yes, I've been meaning to try something along those lines
18:50:26 <paddatrapper> #action olasd to try reduce stream latency
18:50:32 <pollo> neato
18:51:07 <olasd> (thanks :D)
18:51:51 <paddatrapper> Does anyone want to try to setup an alternative streaming stack (in addition to the one we have) with lower latency?
18:52:09 <pollo> paddatrapper: using something else than nginx rtmp ?
18:52:26 <olasd> I think it's not going to be an alternative stack, just different settings for the existing stack
18:52:26 <paddatrapper> pollo: Inferring from the agenda point - yes
18:52:39 <olasd> at least if I'm working on it I'll try that first
18:52:53 <paddatrapper> yeah I think that is a good idea
18:52:54 <olasd> (nginx-rtmp-module can just push to other rtmp endpoints)
18:53:25 <paddatrapper> bouncing between endpoints increases the latency though
18:53:32 <olasd> sure
18:53:49 <olasd> can't really go faster than light
18:53:57 <tumbleweed> and having everyone connecting to the central nginx increases round-trip latency and load on the central nginx
18:54:01 <pollo> as said before, it that helps I wouldn't mind it if we use some commercial service as an endnote
18:54:10 <olasd> but we can clearly do better than 60 seconds
18:54:22 <olasd> let's stream to youtube! job done :P
18:54:26 <pollo> heh
18:55:04 <olasd> I think our primary issue is that video players really, really like lots of buffering before playing
18:55:34 <olasd> but, anyway, I've been actioned, we can move on
18:55:36 <paddatrapper> #topic DC20 Online - Video Stack
18:55:43 <paddatrapper> We used Jitsi + Jibri for the miniconf. It has its limitations (see above), but we know it's usable. Does someone want to set up a POC for another option?
18:56:04 <paddatrapper> BillowConf won't be ready in time
18:56:21 <olasd> would BBB be an acceptable option?
18:56:28 <paddatrapper> Unless people are wanting to help with code
18:56:35 <pollo> olasd: I checked, and RTMP support is bad
18:56:48 <paddatrapper> It is also a dog show to setup and maintain
18:57:00 <tumbleweed> isn't jitsi too?
18:57:08 <pollo> a tad less
18:57:21 <paddatrapper> tumbleweed: at least we can run Jitsi on Debian
18:57:21 <pollo> AFAIU BBB only runs on a particular version of Ubuntu
18:57:27 <paddatrapper> 16.04 to be exact
18:57:28 <olasd> do we care?
18:57:51 <paddatrapper> Their installer was also broken last time highvoltage tried to install it
18:58:02 <pollo> I know BBB scales better for large rooms
18:58:16 <pollo> but I don't have any first-hand sysadmin experience with it
18:58:40 <paddatrapper> Both highvoltage and I tried to install it and gave up
18:58:48 <olasd> ok
18:59:26 <olasd> then I guess we should focus on live interaction going through jitsi/jibri the best we can
18:59:42 <paddatrapper> sounds good
18:59:49 <pollo> paddatrapper: if we use vocto, do we need jibri to do streaming?
18:59:52 <paddatrapper> #agreed we should focus on live interaction going through jitsi/jibri the best we can
19:00:06 <paddatrapper> pollo: yes, it is what gets Jitsi to RTMP
19:00:37 <paddatrapper> essentially it captures the chrome window using FFmpeg X11 capture
19:00:51 <pollo> (ew)
19:00:57 <paddatrapper> very
19:01:02 <olasd> you don't say
19:01:56 <pollo> but it's jitsi -> jibri -> vocto -> nginx -> rtmp right ? Not jitsi -> jibri -> rtmp -> vocto ...
19:02:17 <olasd> jibri just shells out to ffmpeg
19:02:24 <olasd> we can pipe that to whatever
19:02:25 <pollo> yeah ok good
19:02:28 <paddatrapper> Jibri acts as a Jitsi client
19:03:01 <RattusRattus> being virtual this year I don't know if there will be much I can do to help, but I will be available, happy to be tasked...
19:03:05 <pollo> that means we don't have to care about "Jibri can either record or stream, not both."
19:03:24 <paddatrapper> turns out it can with enough Jibri instances
19:03:38 <paddatrapper> but yeah, I suggest we record higher up the chain - vocto probably
19:03:41 <olasd> yeah, we should record on vocto
19:03:43 <tumbleweed> +1
19:03:54 <paddatrapper> We seem to have settled on voctomix for real-time mixing. Any other suggestions?
19:04:14 <olasd> I think it's a decent core; without the gui, we shouldn't have much issues with it
19:04:19 <olasd> *ahem*
19:04:23 <pollo> RattusRattus: you can most definitly help with reviewing pre-recorded talks and to write a guide on how to have good audio at home :)
19:04:55 <pollo> are we using voc2mix or the debian buster package?
19:05:05 <olasd> haha
19:05:34 * pollo hasn't bee in the loop for ~1 year...
19:05:57 <tumbleweed> what's voc2mix?
19:06:02 <olasd> tumbleweed: voctomix 2
19:06:19 <olasd> let's say going to voc2mix overnight at CCC was... quite an experience
19:06:39 <pollo> ok, so not ready for prime time then
19:06:40 <olasd> "oops we messed up the old voctomix setup, we can't go back now"
19:06:54 <olasd> "oh btw if you click this button the core segfaults"
19:07:07 <RattusRattus> ok will write gude over next week or so (can also cover webcam / lighting).  yep can review as well.
19:07:14 <RattusRattus> olasd: ouch!
19:07:16 <olasd> RattusRattus: \o/ that'd be great
19:07:17 <pollo> :p
19:07:17 <paddatrapper> #agreed use vocto-core
19:07:35 <pollo> for jitsi, do we want 1 central servers or multiple ones?
19:07:38 <paddatrapper> #action RattusRattus to write up a guide to pre-recording for presenters
19:07:53 <paddatrapper> RattusRattus: shout if you want proof-reading
19:07:59 <pollo> If we have a bunch of regional mini-confs tracks, 400ms latency to jitsi might be bad
19:08:01 <olasd> maybe they debugged it more since congress; but I don't think they had much live events to do so since then
19:08:27 <RattusRattus> paddatrapper: ta!
19:08:55 <pollo> also, do we want jitsi/jibri/vocto on the same server, or vocto in a separate VM?
19:09:19 <pollo> if it's all on the same hypervisor I guess it would be ok
19:09:26 <paddatrapper> Jibri will need to be on other instances if we want more than one jibri instance
19:09:55 <paddatrapper> Running them all on the same hypervisor as Jitsi in their own VMs causes WebRTC issues...
19:10:11 <pollo> we just need to make sure the jibri -> vocto network is good then
19:10:30 <tumbleweed> all of the core video stuff should have fast network to each other
19:10:35 <paddatrapper> if they both run in the same data centre we should be good
19:10:56 <pollo> #info all of the core video stuff should have fast network to each other
19:11:30 <pollo> where do we play pre-recorded talks from?
19:11:39 <pollo> do we skip jitsi/jibri altogether?
19:11:48 <paddatrapper> yeah, definitely
19:11:50 <nattie> that would make sense to me
19:12:01 <tumbleweed> feed it in as a vocto source
19:12:04 <paddatrapper> the framerate would make things difficult in Jitsi
19:12:26 <pollo> #agreed for pre-recorded talks, we'll feed them to vocto directly and skip jitsi
19:12:50 <pollo> progress!
19:12:58 <paddatrapper> #topic DC20 Online - Advice for presenters
19:12:59 <RattusRattus> do we have prefered resolution / frame rate / encoding etc for pre-recorded talks?
19:13:23 <nattie> hello!
19:13:32 <paddatrapper> 16:9, 720p?
19:13:35 * RattusRattus can then add to the 'how to'
19:13:43 * RattusRattus waves to nattie
19:13:44 <tumbleweed> 25Hz?
19:13:49 <paddatrapper> 25/30 framerate
19:13:51 <pollo> tumbleweed: I worry about lights
19:14:07 <tumbleweed> we probably need to jig the stream for a particular framerate, though
19:14:08 <paddatrapper> pollo: anything we choose will have issues with lights somewhere in the world
19:14:14 <olasd> "use a framerate that matches your local power grid"
19:14:25 <RattusRattus> pre-record I will ask for nateral light / give advice on direction / shaddows etc
19:14:31 <RattusRattus> olasd: ACK
19:14:41 <gwolf> olasd: Five frames per second should be enough for anybody.
19:14:45 <paddatrapper> #info use a framerate that matches your local power grid
19:14:47 <tumbleweed> I guess anything recorded in front of a webcam, won't get visible artifacts from 25->30 or vice-versa
19:15:02 <RattusRattus> I assume we'll transcode everything if needed for pre-recorded
19:15:06 <tumbleweed> some webcams will only record at 30, too
19:15:08 <pollo> 120fps slow-mo cooking with pollo
19:15:21 <olasd> gwolf: sounds good to me as you should mostly show your slides anyway
19:15:33 <olasd> (winkwink)
19:15:35 <tumbleweed> our publishish recordings will be the output of the vocto stack, so they will be transcoded in the process
19:15:36 <paddatrapper> RattusRattus: yeah, makes sense
19:15:43 <tumbleweed> *published
19:16:20 <RattusRattus> tumbleweed: ack - was talking about pre-recorded talks comming in to us...
19:16:57 <tumbleweed> yeah, I think we do whatever we have to do to ingest
19:17:11 <RattusRattus> ack
19:17:17 <pollo> our "play" script can detect framerate and send the right ingest to vocto
19:17:19 <gwolf> ...alternatively, a brightness adjustment filter could be added to jibri to account for line power/webcam settings being off
19:17:27 <gwolf> (jibri is... just too dirty!)
19:17:33 * gwolf is sorry, I'm just here making noise
19:17:38 <gwolf> and I should be cooking lunch!
19:17:40 <gwolf> o/ !
19:18:19 <p2-mate> why does line power matter at all if you use LED light bulbs?
19:18:21 <paddatrapper> I think we should transcode/filter the incoming pre-recorded talks anyway to make them work with what we use
19:18:53 <RattusRattus> p2-mate: cos LEDs flicker at line rate for MOST 'bulbs'
19:19:02 * paddatrapper looks at the incandencents surrounding me
19:19:05 <pollo> p2-mate: and because lots of people (like I) don't :
19:19:29 <RattusRattus> p2-mate: cheep bulbs are LED chain and if you are lucky a ballast resistor
19:20:00 <p2-mate> even those IKEA tradfri dimmable things?
19:20:17 <olasd> I'm sure we can discuss the specifics of electronic bulbs after the meeting ;)
19:20:26 <RattusRattus> p2-mate: no idea never taken one apart.  anyway we are way off topic
19:20:50 <paddatrapper> We need to determine minimum specs for doing live talks
19:20:52 <tumbleweed> paddatrapper: I don't think we should be doing *too much* work on editing incoming video
19:21:10 <tumbleweed> I doubt we have the capacity
19:21:10 <paddatrapper> tumbleweed: not editing, but making sure everything isn't yellow and flickering
19:21:22 <pollo> paddatrapper: I think we'll need hard data for that, as it depends on how many people are on Jitsi
19:21:43 <paddatrapper> Is someone willing to do the testing?
19:21:51 <pollo> fwiu, it's 2mbps/person on jitsi
19:22:18 <paddatrapper> pollo: is that to the Jitsi server?
19:22:23 <paddatrapper> Or to each participant?
19:22:26 <tumbleweed> on the client, quality is configurable, though
19:22:40 <pollo> paddatrapper: to participants
19:23:18 <paddatrapper> #info it's 2mbps/person on jitsi to participants, but quality configurable
19:23:18 <pollo> tumbleweed: yes, but ideally we don't want to rely on that
19:23:49 <tumbleweed> I suspect CPU grunt is the bigger constraint than bandwidth
19:23:58 <tumbleweed> (or our ancinent-thinkpad audience)
19:24:00 * RattusRattus can test stuff if it is already setup (i.e. ill be your bitch)
19:24:02 <paddatrapper> That is what we found during MDCO
19:24:18 <paddatrapper> #action paddatrapper to gather info on CPU usage during SotM
19:25:14 <pollo> I think we can end on this?
19:25:17 <paddatrapper> RattusRattus: jitsi instance is set up, we just need people to throw at it
19:25:34 <tumbleweed> and we should get a voip gateway to it up
19:25:47 <paddatrapper> And test their machines' resource usage
19:25:52 <paddatrapper> tumbleweed: yes definitely
19:26:08 <paddatrapper> the sponsorship team is looking into that?
19:26:08 <pollo> fil has talked with Sipgate in the past for DCs
19:26:25 <tumbleweed> sponsors team is supposed to be contacting them
19:26:47 <tumbleweed> happy to just do it with my personal account for now
19:26:52 <pollo> #info sponsors team is supposed to be contacting Sipgate to get a voip gateway
19:27:21 <pollo> presenter info also needs to take in account browses
19:27:23 <pollo> rs
19:27:42 <pollo> chromium still really outperforms firefox for jitsi
19:27:50 <paddatrapper> pollo: yes, but that needs very careful wording
19:27:56 <pollo> indeed
19:28:11 <olasd> I can't wait for the week-long bikeshedding from people who have Opinions on our wording
19:28:14 <olasd> whichever way it goes
19:28:25 <paddatrapper> #info presenter info needs to take into account browsers, with very careful wording
19:28:27 <pollo> we can also block FF in the jitsi config :p
19:28:30 <paddatrapper> olasd: heh yeah...
19:28:36 <paddatrapper> #topic Any other business
19:28:47 <tumbleweed> RattusRattus: can wwe start a pad with presenter info now, that we can throw ideas into?
19:28:47 <olasd> Firefox + Jitsi was the main topic on the mdco irc
19:28:51 <olasd> ...
19:28:54 <pollo> buahhaa
19:29:18 <tumbleweed> nattie: is this your moment?
19:29:28 <nattie> perhaps
19:29:53 <nattie> as mentioned yesterday in the -team meeting, there is a team forming to support speakers before/during their talks
19:30:07 <nattie> those interested can talk to me
19:30:33 <paddatrapper> #info there is a team forming to support speakers before/during their talks, talk to nattie if interested
19:30:46 <paddatrapper> #topic Next meeting
19:30:49 <tumbleweed> RattusRattus: I created https://storm.debian.net/shared/iVvMB3RMXFtTen_jbtZ_FIh0-Ob54DaYvXvxaZx7_Ls to start my thoughts
19:30:49 <paddatrapper> Thursday 25 June 2020 @ 18:00 UTC?
19:31:24 <olasd> sounds good to me
19:31:25 <RattusRattus> tumbleweed: ta
19:31:36 <pollo> +1
19:31:36 <ivodd> /1/1
19:31:38 <nattie> Thursday?
19:31:54 <paddatrapper> nattie: yeah, I can't do Tuesdays every week
19:31:55 <nattie> any particular reason?
19:31:56 <nattie> ah right
19:32:01 <paddatrapper> #agreed Thursday 25 June 2020 @ 18:00 UTC
19:32:07 <paddatrapper> #endmeeting