19:06:10 <k4x> #startmeeting
19:06:41 * danielsan = Daniel Hess
19:06:41 <h01ger> right. anybody can say #idea and #action is good to note who volunteered for what
19:06:50 * h01ger = Holger Levsen
19:07:05 * k4x = Kurt Gramlich
19:07:13 * finnarne = Finn-Arne Johansen, BzzWare AS
19:07:44 * pere = Petter Reinholdtsen
19:08:13 <k4x> h01ger: could we have a summary with the meetbot?
19:08:24 <sepski> greetings, sorry for beeing late.
19:08:25 <h01ger> k4x, yes, but a human needs to finish it
19:08:28 * sepski = Ronny Aasen
19:08:36 * h01ger waves to sepski
19:09:07 <k4x> ok, who will finish the summary?
19:10:09 <k4x> ok, we will not spend more time on it, I will do the summary
19:10:21 <sepski> k4x, thank you
19:10:30 <danielsan> k4x: thanks
19:10:31 <k4x> so lets start with teh first topic
19:10:46 <k4x> #topic status lenny
19:10:50 <h01ger> \o/ thanks k4x
19:11:13 <h01ger> only 6 bugs left! \o/
19:11:28 * danielsan did a netinst testinstall of mainserver+workstation+ltsp which was sucessful
19:11:37 <h01ger> http://tinyurl.com/edulenny-releaseview
19:11:40 <danielsan> but I did not yet test the thinclient part
19:12:09 * finnarne wonders if the pdns-ldap stuff should have used strict method instead if tree-method.
19:12:22 <danielsan> there is still a problem with the bootstrap of ldap for samba and samba in general
19:12:23 <h01ger> finnarne, which would have what effect?
19:12:55 <danielsan> it may also require a change in lwat (to add some more samba attributes for new users and hosts)
19:13:16 <finnarne> h01ger: it would simplify the ldap objects.
19:13:22 <danielsan> finnarne: we are using tree-method now?
19:13:52 <danielsan> (tree as in how objects are placed in ldap?)
19:13:53 <finnarne> dont know, haven't used lwat for that (it's jss work, and I've been to busy looking over stuff)
19:14:56 <k4x> as I remember Jose said, we have tree-method, what tey also use in Spain
19:15:13 <k4x> /tey/they
19:15:24 * h01ger thinks if someone can commit to simplefy things, that would be great. changing stuff and leaving it half broken while we have it almost working now, doesnt sound so good to me ;)
19:15:25 <sepski> simple mode is almost like a textfile in ldap entry by entry
19:15:38 <finnarne> now we have dc=intern,ou=hosts,dc=skole,dc=skolelinux,dc=no and I guess 0.10.arp-addr,ou=hosts,dc=skole,dc=skolelinux,dc=no
19:15:58 <sepski> tree mode means the dns query is made into ou's where a domain separator is a new branch on the tree
19:16:07 <finnarne> with strict mode we can leave everything within ou=hosts,dc=skole,dc=skolelinux,dc=no
19:16:19 <sepski> strict mode is like simple mode, but it autogenerates PTR records and you can't zone transfer those
19:16:36 * pere would love to have one object for each computer in LDAP.
19:17:02 <k4x> pere_away: what does this mean in that context?
19:17:05 <danielsan> sepski: so it's better like we have it now?
19:17:07 <finnarne> we would still need at least 2 I think, one for dhcp stuff, and maybe one for the rest
19:17:08 <sepski> could you merge the dns the dhcp the nethost object into one ?
19:17:31 <finnarne> sepski: no ^^
19:17:34 <sepski> i used tree mode when i initialy concived the powerdns way. since i needed zone transfers
19:17:48 <pere> k4x: not sure, but I just wanted it to be in the list of wanted features for LDAP. :)
19:17:57 <sepski> finnarne, then i do not realy see what we gain. since i like the structured layout of the tree mode
19:18:22 <sepski> if we can merge objects and reduce ldap complexity i would say it's a good thing (tm)
19:18:23 <finnarne> sepski: I dislike the need for at least 4 objects for a host.
19:18:39 <sepski> didn't you just say we could not merge them ?
19:18:46 <finnarne> I would prefer 2 objects for each host , over 4
19:19:12 <sepski> also with strict mode you get multiple ptr's for ip addresses (if you have multiple A's)
19:19:43 <finnarne> sepski: not if you add cnamerecord properly
19:20:51 <finnarne> but yes if you add tjener as, ns as, mail as , you get more
19:20:52 <h01ger> finnarne, do you know if jss or you can work on #1270? (lwat ticket #14)?
19:21:27 <finnarne> not in the next couple of weeks. We're converting schools to lenny these days
19:21:41 <sepski> not all records can be cnames  examples are zone origin , postoffice and domain
19:22:02 <k4x> who else is working on that? sepski?
19:22:29 <pere> danielsan: can you write a test for the samba problem?
19:23:01 <sepski> but again it's a do-o-cracy. i will not do this change, but i understand the motivation for doing it. it's pretty moot for me anyway since i require zone transfers
19:23:06 <pere> btw, I tested the lenny install, and failed to find tjener as a host in LDAP using lwat.  that seemed strange to me.
19:23:06 <h01ger> finnarne, heh. this bug blocks our release ;)
19:23:21 * klausade = Klaus Ade johnstad
19:23:27 <danielsan> pere: not sure, would require to query samba about the accounts
19:23:30 <sepski> k4x, working on what ?
19:23:39 * danielsan will have a look at it
19:24:18 <danielsan> but first I would like to check if adding the attributes to the ldap objects fixes the problems
19:24:21 <k4x> sepski: what kind of bug is it?
19:24:50 <k4x> is it a missing feature in lwat?
19:25:03 <sepski> k4x, you have lost me. what are you talking about ? i was discussion a implementation change of ldapified dns. no bug.
19:25:20 <sepski> it would simplify the development needed for lwat, but it would not remove the need for the development
19:25:40 <finnarne> h01ger: why cant the groups be defined in debian-edu ?
19:25:41 <k4x> sepski: ok thanks
19:25:45 <pere> sepski: I suspect k4x and danielsan are discussing some samba issue.
19:26:10 <danielsan> at least /me does :)
19:26:33 <k4x> let me try to summaries the topic
19:26:34 <finnarne> h01ger: s/groups/groupmaps/ s/debian-edu/debian-edu-config
19:26:36 <sepski> danielsan, k4x yeah i realy have not had time to look at the samba issue at all.
19:27:05 * danielsan has a test setup now
19:27:07 <k4x> so danielsan is working on the samba issue
19:27:22 <sepski> finnarne, becouse schools make their own new groups? in addition to teacher and student ?
19:27:25 <h01ger> finnarne, indeed
19:27:34 <pere> the only problems with the installation detected by the self test when installing main-server+thin-client-server were missing DNS entries.
19:27:42 <k4x> and teh decision for ldapifinging dns results in different lwat devolopments
19:27:52 <h01ger> sepski, aint that another issue? ie that bug should be cloned :)
19:28:45 <sepski> h01ger, i did belive the groups we provide out of the box allready had the correct samba groupmaps.....  but my memory may be failing me.
19:29:03 <sepski> could be mixing it with changes i did in my FAI
19:29:19 <h01ger> sepski, you filed that bug
19:29:22 <danielsan> there are some samba maps
19:29:23 <finnarne> sepski: so if a school creates a new group, you should add that as a samba group in addition ? whet would that give ?
19:29:52 <sepski> finnarne, that windows machines would be aware of the groups as well.
19:30:13 <pere> how would the windows machines use the groups?
19:30:40 <finnarne> are you talking about the various predefined maps in microsoft, like administrators, print-admin, power-users, remote desktop users and so on ?
19:30:51 <sepski> spesifically i have groups for schools and for year's
19:31:16 <sepski> and in windows i use the groups for limiting what printers are autoinstalled on the windows machines depending on what group a user is in
19:31:31 <sepski> eg a school vs another.
19:31:34 <finnarne> so adding a samba groupmap with the same name as the group would solve things ?
19:31:44 <sepski> or a teacher vs a student
19:31:59 <finnarne> teacher vs student should be fixed in debian-edu-config
19:32:52 <danielsan> adding groupmap information would be nice
19:33:21 <sepski> this is something samba did in a different way in etch so it was working in etch
19:33:44 <pere> we should avoid regressions if this was working in etch.
19:34:00 <danielsan> there are groupmaps for admins, jradmins, teachers and students now (debian-edu-config/ldap-tools/samba-debian-edu-admin)
19:34:29 <finnarne> are those working in lenny as well ?
19:34:40 <sepski> danielsan, so i was not remembering to wrong
19:35:10 <sepski> finnarne, yes the groups we provide out of the box are working. this is only for new groups made thru lwat / import
19:35:17 * danielsan has to check, but will do when checking the other windows stuff
19:35:33 <danielsan> sepski: ah, fine :)
19:35:38 <sepski> and it works if you run the command i mentioned in the bug http://bugs.skolelinux.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1270
19:35:49 <sepski> after making the groups
19:36:04 <finnarne> is there a need to be abel to edit the samba groupmap name, or could it be the same as for unix groups ?
19:36:21 <finnarne> s/abel/able
19:37:42 <sepski> i have allways kept it identical for the user generated groups,  and does not see a need to change it. with the exception of the groups that have special meanings http://us3.samba.org/samba/docs/man/Samba-HOWTO-Collection/groupmapping.html#WKURIDS
19:37:43 <danielsan> I think the same name as in unix would be sufficient, ..
19:38:18 <finnarne> I'll look into it.
19:38:59 <sepski> if we could make the RID identical to the guid it would be nice. but i do not know if that is feasible
19:39:08 <sepski> finnarne, awesome
19:39:13 <danielsan> finnarne: thanks
19:41:04 * k4x we are still at topic status lenny, what else is release blocking?
19:41:52 <danielsan> missing test releases?
19:42:13 <danielsan> how about doing a test release to, maybe, get more users to test?
19:42:32 <k4x> who is able to do this?
19:43:02 <h01ger> ftpteam and drift
19:43:10 <sepski> only d-e-c is differeing between lenny and lenny-test so it should be quite feasible
19:43:15 <pere> anyone can do a test release.
19:43:22 <sepski> d-e-d i mean
19:43:34 <h01ger> pere, copying an iso away and labeling "beta1" or such
19:43:53 <pere> any member of the www group can do that: gautehk,ronny,pere,olea,herman,lis,joeyh,holger,builder,akai,werner,ragnar,jever,finnarne
19:44:06 * h01ger wonders if its really sensible now. we IMO have too many blocking bugs we know about
19:44:34 <sepski> there may be other bugs we do not know about. and the announcement should mention the blocking bugs to avoid duplicates.
19:44:35 <pere> announcing test releases with a summary of changes tend to attract test users.
19:45:15 <k4x> pere: yes
19:45:20 <sepski> imho wording the announcement is the main work
19:45:31 <pere> yeah.
19:45:43 <h01ger> yeah. if the announcemnet mentions the blocking bugs...
19:45:57 <pere> if someone not in the www group want to make test releases, I am sure we can fix write access.
19:47:42 <k4x> h01ger: I did not understand .. you mean there are to many bugs to do a test release?
19:48:23 <pere> h01ger: did you fix the PXE stuff with DVDs?
19:48:48 <h01ger> pere, no
19:49:15 <h01ger> k4x, well, yes, thats what i said, but sep is right, if we mention them in the announcement, it should be fine
19:50:25 <k4x> h01ger: ok, I will help, but it is to technical stuff for me, so I need help to understand and describe all bugs
19:50:25 <pere> drafting the announcement on the wiki might make it easier to get help writing them.
19:50:41 <k4x> pere: good idea
19:51:15 <k4x> pere: could you please just init a wiki page now?
19:51:32 <h01ger> k4x, if you ping me here or via mail, i'm happy to review+comment+probably write
19:51:45 <k4x> h01ger: awesome
19:51:49 * danielsan may also be able to contribute
19:52:10 <k4x> danielsan: thanks so we take this in German hands ;-)9
19:52:17 <pere> k4x: I am sure others are able, and will not try to take responsibility of making test releases this time.  my days are not long enough.
19:52:41 * h01ger would like to move on / fisnish the meeting in an hour. and i also have a small any other business topic
19:52:48 <k4x> pere: ok, I will catch all this help together ...
19:52:59 <k4x> h01ger: thanks, you are right
19:53:19 <k4x> #topic developer gathering october
19:53:47 <h01ger> finnarne, stil around?
19:53:58 <k4x> as I understand finnarne is waiting for an answer of FRISK?
19:54:31 <finnarne> yes. we are
19:54:33 <pere> k4x: if you want a draft announcement, <URL: https://init.linpro.no/pipermail/skolelinux.no/linuxiskolen/2007-May/017697.html > is an example.
19:54:48 <k4x> pere: thnaks
19:54:59 <k4x> /thnaks/thanks
19:55:01 <finnarne> we've asked FRISK on how to proceed, but with no response
19:55:12 <h01ger> finnarne, can you explain more? is there more? aint anyone from frisk here?
19:55:16 <finnarne> after the initial "Wow - awsome"
19:55:55 <finnarne> We told them that we would like to sponsor a gathering with minimum NOK 10k
19:56:07 <h01ger> so whats the problem?
19:56:08 <pere> I believe the FRISK board need help getting the member organization to work properly again.
19:56:15 <k4x> can someone send an URL where the members of FRISK are readable?
19:56:18 <finnarne> the maximum sponsoring from BzzWare would be NOK 20k
19:56:29 <h01ger> finnarne, and "awesome!" from me too
19:56:42 <finnarne> If we get som more funding from custommers, that will be added.
19:57:10 <pere> finnarne: perhaps email isn't working?  did you try phone?
19:57:15 <k4x> finnarne: thanks!
19:57:20 <finnarne> there are a few cathes.
19:57:29 <h01ger> finnarne, so what is the problem? 10-20k aint enough? you dont feel appreciated? you are lost how to go on?
19:57:46 * k4x 3 minutes left
19:57:46 <finnarne> we will not sponsor a gathering on the 3rd weekend in October
19:57:49 <pere> #url http://www.friprogramvareiskolen.no/Styret/ - frisk board
19:58:00 <k4x> pere: thanks
19:58:30 <pere> I'm busy the second weekend (9-11).
19:58:32 <finnarne> that's because I cant join you that weekend
19:58:35 <sepski> i am a reserve in frisk. but did not realy feel authorative to answer your questions on mail
19:58:40 <k4x> finnarne: so everybody could ask FRISK Members, I will do it with the only German ...
19:59:15 <h01ger> so lets agree now on a meeting date?
19:59:23 <pere> pere klausade and knuty are on the FRISK election board, and will soon have to look for candidates for the next general assembly.
19:59:49 <finnarne> We also want to have a new general assembly that weekend.
20:00:14 <k4x> pere: ok, could you inform debian-edu list, when elections are starting?
20:00:15 <finnarne> (and I wont be electable, because of conflict of interests)
20:00:58 <pere> k4x: the election will happen at the general assembly meeting.
20:00:59 * k4x lets try to find a weekend in october
20:01:13 <h01ger> so is this solved for now? (ie stuff will discussed/planned on th elist) so that we can move on? or find a date now?
20:01:20 <pere> so, if both finnarne and me should show, the first and forth weekend would work.
20:01:47 <k4x> than I could only join th 5.
20:01:52 <finnarne> and the fifth (its' saturday 1. november I think
20:02:03 <finnarne> sorry, sunday
20:02:12 <k4x> no saturday is 31.10.
20:02:25 <finnarne> I would prefer the 4th weekend
20:03:08 <h01ger> so lets choose that one
20:03:12 <sepski> the 4rth weekend is the only one i may have open at the moment in that month.
20:03:13 * k4x I propose do init a wikipage for that
20:03:18 <pere> what about proposing the first, forth and fifth weekend and doing a poll, picking the one with most people.
20:03:25 * h01ger nods pere
20:03:26 <pere> (it is what we normally do in cases like this. :)
20:03:44 <sepski> and ususly it's 3-5 people answering it.... :/
20:03:49 <finnarne> That was our plan, but since there was no response from the Board....
20:03:58 <h01ger> finnarne, can you setup a poll on doodle.ch? takes 5min :)
20:03:59 <pere> under http://www.friprogramvareiskolen.no/Gathering would be the place to gather it.
20:04:16 <finnarne> Or at our website.
20:04:20 <pere> finnarne: we should not let inactivity from the FRISK board block progress. :/
20:04:43 <k4x> pere: ok, lets put or names there and the dates when we are able to join
20:04:44 <pere> (and if someone want to revitalize the FRiSK member organization, please become members and run for office. :)
20:04:56 <k4x> ;-)
20:05:01 * h01ger is looking for ways to do less
20:05:15 <pere> finnarne: how would the amount of sponsoring be determined?
20:05:24 * k4x I tend to end or meeting now
20:05:35 * h01ger has a final question
20:05:35 <finnarne> It was explained in the mail :)
20:05:54 <danielsan> k4x: talk about next irc meeting?
20:05:59 <k4x> h01ger: please
20:06:04 <k4x> danielsan: right
20:06:08 <pere> finnarne: right.  it should be predictable for everyone, to avoid discussions after the event.
20:06:11 <finnarne> we don't want to pay to much tax on theese money
20:06:14 <h01ger> AndrewLee wants me to explain debian-edu at the free software conference in taiwan in september.. i would need funding to go there and want to ask frisk for it
20:06:33 <h01ger> funding for accomodation+food can be covered by the conf..
20:06:54 <pere> h01ger: that is like 1250 EURO?
20:06:54 <h01ger> whom should i contact and how fast could this be decided?
20:06:59 <h01ger> 1000e
20:07:04 <k4x> h01ger: I support this
20:07:06 <h01ger> at least it was 900e yesterday
20:07:07 <pere> h01ger: the FRISK board and akai.
20:07:18 <pere> akai is the leader of FRISK.
20:07:27 <h01ger> so i'll mail them and put "URGENT" in the subject ;)
20:07:37 <k4x> h01ger: do it!
20:07:45 <pere> h01ger: mail is good, but apparently not sufficient. :)
20:07:50 <h01ger> hmm
20:07:57 * k4x now: next meeting
20:07:57 <h01ger> i have akais mobile.. but ;)
20:08:03 <h01ger> k4x, use #topic
20:08:10 <finnarne> maybe it's easier to get money out, than to get money in ?
20:08:11 <k4x> #topic next meeting
20:08:17 <h01ger> but the board decides, not akai, or?
20:08:32 <h01ger> +thanks for your support!
20:08:35 <pere> h01ger: sure, but akai is supposed to drive the process. :)
20:08:42 <h01ger> right :)
20:09:10 <h01ger> next meeting in a year?
20:09:15 <h01ger> a
20:09:17 <h01ger> month :)
20:09:18 <pere> :)
20:09:21 <k4x> ;-)
20:09:36 <pere> works for me.
20:09:37 <h01ger> multitasking is fun sometimes :)
20:09:40 <finnarne> there was a suggestion on october  15th
20:09:50 <sepski> finnarne, ill answer the mail you wrote just to try to get something out of the senior members
20:10:05 * h01ger thinks we should have an irc meeting rather sooner, maybe even sooner than in a month
20:10:07 <finnarne> sepski: fine
20:10:08 <pere> would like to avoid tuesdays.
20:10:36 <pere> 2. of oktober?
20:10:37 <finnarne> if you want me inn, I guess mondays is the best, or sundays
20:10:40 <h01ger> wednesday, septrember 16th?
20:10:45 <h01ger> monday, sep 14th?
20:10:58 <finnarne> but I wont promise I'll be there :)
20:10:59 <pere> monday 14th might work for me.
20:11:13 * h01ger is fine with the 14th too
20:11:47 <k4x> so we fix 14.9. same time
20:11:51 <h01ger> \o/
20:11:54 * h01ger thanbks
20:11:59 <danielsan> \o/
20:12:02 <pere> ack.
20:12:11 * h01ger thanks everyone for attending and esp. k4x for chairing and summarizing!
20:12:19 <pere> thanks.
20:12:24 <danielsan> thanks k4x, thanks all!
20:12:40 <k4x> #info next meeting september monday 14.
20:13:02 <k4x> #endmeeting