16:00:51 <hellais> #startmeeting OONI gathering 2016-11-14
16:00:51 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Nov 14 16:00:51 2016 UTC.  The chair is hellais. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:51 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
16:01:14 <hellais> link to pad: https://pad.riseup.net/p/ooni-irc-pad
16:01:29 <hellais> if you have some agenda ideas please add them to the pad
16:02:02 <sbs> hello! yes!
16:02:06 <agrabeli> hi
16:02:28 <darkk> Hi all!
16:02:54 <anadahz> hi
16:03:40 <agrabeli> so topic 1#OONI stall at 33c3?
16:04:23 <agrabeli> I think having a stall at 33c3 would be a great opportunity for us to promote out work, demo the new tools, and explain our work to people.
16:06:08 <agrabeli> Also, that would be a place for us to sell OONI t-shirts (we have a budget for that), distribute materials, etc.
16:06:17 <darkk> and a ~ valid reason to seek for funding for it, lol :-)
16:06:32 <sbs> agrabeli: wow, OONI t-shirts will be epic!
16:07:24 <agrabeli> As I am imagining it, we would have an OONI stall at noisysquare, with a OONI banner, OONI stickers, t-shirts, etc. We would also display OONI mobile, OONI Explorer, etc.
16:07:36 <agrabeli> This would provide more visibility to OONI, and attract more users.
16:07:56 <agrabeli> and then we could also actively go to "heaven" and reach out to all the hackerspaces there, engaging them with ooniprobe
16:08:00 <sbs> agrabeli: agree, +1
16:08:30 <agrabeli> But to do this, we first need to figure out logistics:
16:08:42 <agrabeli> 1. How many of us can or want to attend 33c3?
16:08:53 <agrabeli> 2. Is there anyone who wants to go but doesn't have a ticket?
16:09:13 <agrabeli> 3. We would need to reserve the space for our stall asap (we can't book this last minute)
16:09:34 <agrabeli> Also, if we do this, then we would allocate shifts among us
16:10:04 <agrabeli> Shifts so that there is always an OONI person at the stall during peek hours -- but in such a way that people can also attend talks, workshops, etc.
16:13:21 * landers here
16:13:51 <hellais> is there somebody that would like to go to CCC _for sure_ and doesn't have a ticket or somebody that will be there _for sure_ and has a ticket?
16:14:06 <hellais> conversely is there somebody that will not go _for sure_?
16:14:07 <landers> i would like to go, but don't have a ticket yet
16:14:19 <agrabeli> I have a ticket and would like to go
16:14:42 <agrabeli> landers: would you be interested in supporting the OONI stall (if we have one)?
16:14:52 <sbs> I was not planning of going to CCC but this proposal changes things and I am now leaning towards going but don't have ticket
16:14:54 <hellais> (BTW the OONI CCC talk got rejected)
16:15:11 <agrabeli> hellais: :(
16:15:11 <sbs> hellais: d'oh
16:15:24 <agrabeli> hellais: even more of a reason to host a stall and still promote OONI!
16:15:26 <landers> agrabeli: maybe
16:15:31 <anadahz> It seems that I'm going to be at 33c3 haven't confirm that yet
16:15:36 <anadahz> :(
16:16:01 <agrabeli> anadahz: do you have a ticket?
16:16:17 <darkk> I can attend if someone needs my help, but I'm not zealous of CCC, so I have no tickets for planes/CCC ATM.
16:16:20 <anadahz> agrabeli: no
16:16:46 <agrabeli> ok, so only hellais and I have tickets...
16:17:01 <agrabeli> this complicates things, as there are not many tickets available for sale...
16:17:22 <agrabeli> I mean, I think there will be another 2 rounds of ticket sales, but ccc tickets usually get sold within the first few minutes
16:17:45 <hellais> agrabeli: there will be no other rounds of sales.
16:17:49 <hellais> all tickets are now sold out
16:18:39 <agrabeli> hellais: hm, I recently heard that there will be more ticket sales...perhaps we should check and confirm with ccc if we really want to do the stall thing...
16:18:53 <landers> At these dates we???ll release additional tickets for sale:
16:18:55 <landers> 2016-11-19 15:00 (Sa)
16:18:57 <landers> 2016-11-25 10:00 (Fr)
16:18:59 <hellais> hum, actually I see now that they advertise them on the site as being 2 more rounds, but other sources told me that that is not the case
16:19:34 <agrabeli> perhaps we should go with what is on the site...
16:19:36 <hellais> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
16:20:55 <agrabeli> to host an OONI stall I think we need at minimum 3 people
16:21:28 <agrabeli> who would be willing to try to get a ticket during the next rounds and join the stall?
16:21:30 <landers> what is a stall, really? i'm picturing tables with people sitting on their laptops
16:22:32 <agrabeli> landers: it would be a table with an OONI banner, OONI t-shirts (that we'd be selling), OONI stickers and other swag, and several devices providing a demo of OONI mobile, OONI Explorer, OONI's web UI, etc.
16:23:07 <agrabeli> We'd basically stand/sit at the stall, talk to people about OONI, show them the various tools, get them excited, sell t-shirts, etc.
16:23:25 <agrabeli> It's basically a way to promote OONI and to get new/more people excited/engaged with the project
16:23:47 <agrabeli> Tactical Tech does this every year, and so do a number of other organizations and projects (e.g. EFF)
16:24:14 <agrabeli> Usually the stall is at Noisy Square, which is quite busy and a place that people hang out at anyway
16:25:12 <agrabeli> In short, I would classify this under OONI community/outreach engagement.
16:25:13 <sbs> agrabeli: I'm willing
16:25:31 <agrabeli> sbs: awesome!
16:25:37 <landers> yeah i'd be down for that
16:25:49 <agrabeli> landers: cool!
16:26:48 <agrabeli> ok, so anyone serious about joining in on this, please email me and we'll continue the discussion there.
16:28:23 <hellais> next topic?
16:28:36 <hellais> #topic 1-3 days internal meeting before/after tor-dev
16:28:51 <sbs> since I proposed this let me add
16:29:20 <sbs> I guess many of us agree it's good to have more periodic meetings like last week
16:29:28 <sbs> ideally I'd picture 4 or them / year
16:29:36 <sbs> so, next one would be the 'ooni winter meeting'
16:29:54 <sbs> but since there's also tor winter dev, I'd say we can travel one time and gather before or after that event
16:29:57 <sbs> EOF
16:30:58 <hellais> in general I agree that we should do more of these sorts of gatherings, maybe even up to 4 times a year.
16:31:54 <agrabeli> My issue with adding 3-4 days before/after tor-dev is that March is already fill with too many events, reducing time from actual work...
16:31:56 <hellais> however I am a bit concerned with doing another one in the month of March, because of the large number of events already lined up during that month and the risk of not getting much done during that month
16:32:09 <hellais> lol
16:32:12 <agrabeli> hellais: lol
16:32:50 <agrabeli> I guess it depends on how the next tor-dev is structured...
16:33:01 <agrabeli> during the last tor-dev, we had plenty of time to discuss all OONI things
16:33:23 <agrabeli> if the structure of the next Tor-dev is similar to the last one, then we should be able to fit in all OONI discussions
16:33:24 <sbs> hellais agrabeli: lol
16:33:51 <sbs> agrabeli: it does make sense
16:33:58 <hellais> from what I can tell in the outline of this dev meeting (https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/meetings/2017Amsterdam) it's already taken into account that the first 3 days are for team meetings
16:34:02 <hellais> so I don'
16:34:12 <agrabeli> I would suggest that we optimize for having as many OONI discussions as possible during the next Tor-dev, and that we have another, separate OONI meeting in the summer or so
16:34:33 <sbs> hellais: right, then, so this implements what I was suggesting except that it's part of the tor meeting rather than not
16:34:45 <agrabeli> sbs: yes
16:34:55 <hellais> so I don't think it's necessary to add extra days (outside of 21th - 28th) just for an OONI internal gathering, but we could have some of those discussions happening during the 22nd, 23rd
16:35:06 <sbs> hellais: yep
16:35:06 <hellais> sbs: correct.
16:35:22 <hellais> ok great. can we move to the next item?
16:35:27 <sbs> sure
16:35:34 <hellais> #topic discuss possibility of using an opensource equivalent or slack
16:36:00 <sbs> so here the idea is to discuss whether we want to do that
16:36:03 <hellais> I think this would be a good idea and it would make it easier for people to interact with us on IRC
16:36:10 <hellais> in particular I would suggest http://matrix.org/
16:36:12 <sbs> we briefly mentioned it during the berlin meeting
16:36:16 <hellais> that has a IRC transport
16:36:27 <sbs> hellais: <trolling>is this open source?</>
16:36:37 <hellais> so you can link it up with our #ooni channel and people can either join via matrix or via IRC
16:36:49 <hellais> sbs: yes it's free software
16:37:10 <sbs> hellais: wow!
16:37:34 <sbs> hellais: I'd +1 the proposal of using matrix
16:37:43 <darkk> I'm OK with anything that can be reached from two devices (pc / mobile) and has at least some tiny server-side backlog. Jabber / IRC (use bouncer!) / Telegram.
16:38:13 <agrabeli> I'm fine with anything, don't have a strong opinion on this matter.
16:38:36 <hellais> matrix support full backlog (all history of channel is preserved forever in your home server)
16:38:54 <hellais> they have clients for multiple platforms (web based, android/ios, wechat plugin, etc.)
16:39:29 <darkk> Is matrix.org software stable? I mean, fixing messaging app is probably not the 1st thing I'd enjoy :)
16:40:02 <hellais> darkk: I have spoken to some people that have deployed it and they said there were some minor issues, but it was less painful in the end than deploying a xmpp server
16:40:11 * darkk looks at depressing state of OTR in XMPP clients
16:40:14 <hellais> this is the reference server implementation: https://matrix.org/docs/projects/server/synapse.html
16:41:23 <darkk> 1) who is hosting the server? 2) who is repairing it when things go wrong?
16:42:13 <darkk> <troll>matrix.org does not enforce https</troll>
16:42:16 <hellais> heh those are fine questions. We would obviously have to set it up ourselves and maintain it
16:42:56 <darkk> OK, what's the reason to switch?
16:44:02 <hellais> it wouldn't be a switch per say, but rather adding support for matrix users to the OONI IRC
16:44:22 <anadahz> I guess since we can use IRC in matrix we will still using IRC ?
16:44:23 <sbs> darkk: I guess ythat it would be easier to use than IRC
16:44:24 <hellais> the main reason behind this is that people that are not familiar with IRC can join the channel and chat with us via a web link
16:44:41 <darkk> isn't it easier just to point users to OFTC's webirc?
16:44:47 <hellais> and you would be able to have access to channel backlog + support for mobile clients
16:45:47 <hellais> darkk: yeah, but webirc doesn't have backlog
16:46:20 <hellais> anyways I guess this is a plus that would be nice to have, it's not really an urgent need imho
16:46:43 <agrabeli> hellais: +1
16:46:48 <sbs> another possibility could me mattermost: https://github.com/mattermost/platform
16:47:31 <sbs> it has <trolling>automatic redirect to https</> and it seems it's possible to deploy it on heroku (judging from the readme, one then needs to understand what that means)
16:47:35 <darkk> 1) backlog is sort of feature, but do users seeking for support need it? 2) mobile IRC seems to be sort of working with weechat and glowing bear (without push and OTR)
16:50:30 <sbs> anyway, I guess we can table this discussion for now?
16:50:52 <hellais> yeah I don't think this is really a priority
16:51:07 <sbs> agreed
16:51:21 <hellais> is there anything else people would like to discuss?
16:51:56 <hellais> if not I guess we can end this meeting 9 minutes early
16:52:10 <sbs> hit it!
16:52:20 <darkk> wow! we needed week meetup for that :-D
16:52:51 <sbs> for what?
16:53:06 <agrabeli> darkk: lol
16:53:11 <anadahz> darkk: it's also for people that come around to ask/comment on anything
16:53:12 <agrabeli> sbs: to end the meeting early
16:53:17 <darkk> to be able to end the meeting before the scheduled end
16:53:32 <sbs> darkk: ah, lol
16:54:03 <hellais> #endmeeting