16:59:59 <nickm> #startmeeting weekly network team meeting, 13 Nov 2017
16:59:59 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Nov 13 16:59:59 2017 UTC.  The chair is nickm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:59:59 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:03 <nickm> hello!
17:00:51 <dgoulet> pad: https://pad.riseup.net/p/6WIf3OrauSP4
17:01:16 <isabela> buenas
17:02:05 <nickm> We've reached our "halfway mark" for november
17:02:23 <isabela> !
17:03:21 <nickm> anybody else here today?
17:03:30 <nickm> seems like there are a bunch of folks sick, or away, or busy, or...
17:03:49 <dgoulet> eheh small crowd :)
17:03:50 <pastly> I'm here but don't have anythign to say, really
17:05:04 <nickm> So, we  have a few items on the discussion list, but most of them want a bigger group than we have
17:05:33 <nickm> I wonder if we should reschedule our meeting time
17:06:10 <dgoulet> why?
17:06:22 <pastly> possible DST confusion still?
17:06:23 <dgoulet> apart from asn with a small conflict, do we have other constraints?
17:06:36 <dgoulet> we could go 18:00 UTC to be like it was some days ago eheh
17:06:40 <nickm> asn says it conflicts now
17:07:04 <isabela> if we move up 30min would work better for him
17:07:28 <nickm> #action nickm asks the list if people would like to reschedule.
17:07:29 <catalyst> here now
17:07:34 <nickm> hi!
17:07:40 <GeKo> dgoulet: if you stick to UTC that would conflict with thetor browser time during the summer
17:07:49 <dgoulet> oh
17:07:53 <GeKo> *meeting time
17:08:42 <nickm> okay.  so, we have a few people.
17:08:47 <nickm> pad is at https://pad.riseup.net/p/6WIf3OrauSP4
17:09:17 <nickm> first thing I'd like everyone to do is to look at the roadmap spreadsheet and see if there's anything that you said you'd take for the first half of november that isn't done...
17:09:31 <nickm> and see if there's anything on the list for November for you that won't be done by end-of-month
17:09:52 <nickm> #item people who aren't here, please check November items on the roadmap
17:10:27 <isis> o/
17:10:50 <nickm> #item If you need help making sure that you get your end-of-month stuff done by end-of-month, please just ask!
17:10:58 * nickm has a little extra coding energy
17:11:00 <nickm> isis: hi!
17:11:33 <nickm> #item look at the email that isabela sent out with all the other teams' questions on our roadmap, and answers for us on theirs
17:11:57 <nickm> there were some questions about hidden service stuff, about usability stuff, and about anticensorship stuff that I couldn't answer: maybe other people will be able to answer them?
17:12:19 <nickm> and that's about what I have to start out with
17:12:34 <dgoulet> so the questions are on the storm pad right?
17:12:38 <nickm> yeah
17:12:53 <dgoulet> ooook I'll try opening that lol
17:14:42 <nickm> also, isis & catalyst: are you on track for your november items on the roadmap?
17:14:50 <isabela> dgoulet: i also pasted them on my email
17:14:55 <dgoulet> seems asn said he answered all the HS related questions...
17:15:22 <dgoulet> isabela: the third reload worked to load the pad! I just can't edit but at least I get the current status :)
17:15:30 <isabela> hehe
17:15:48 <catalyst> nickm: a little behind in part due to HackerOne backlog
17:16:00 <nickm> ok. anything i can help with?
17:16:07 <isabela> dgoulet: if you want i can paste your updates (sorry for the pain with storm)
17:16:18 <nickm> and/or any intermediate results that you'd like feedback on?
17:17:20 <dgoulet> nickm: you can help me with something
17:17:21 <catalyst> nickm: being around when i'm thinking out loud about bootstrap stuff in #tor-dev might be helpful (but others can do this too if they have the background)
17:17:29 <isis> nickm: i think i'm on track? i'll let you know if anything starts to look in danger
17:17:33 <nickm> catalyst: ok. when's a good time for that?
17:18:05 <nickm> catalyst: I seem to see you mostly active in the afternoon/evening (my time) .. I can try to hang around a little later in the day some days a week
17:18:08 <nickm> woudl that be useful?
17:18:21 <nickm> isis: thanks!
17:18:27 <catalyst> nickm: that would help, thanks!
17:19:55 <nickm> #action nickm asks ahf about sponsor8 status; we should talk about performance work scheduled to start this week.
17:20:29 <nickm> whoa, isis, you finished moat!?
17:21:12 <nickm> ♪┏(°.°)┛┗(°.°)┓┗(°.°)┛┏(°.°)┓ ♪
17:21:37 <isabela> !
17:21:41 <isabela> :)
17:21:57 <isis> nickm: i think so yeah!
17:22:07 <isis> at least it seems to be working
17:22:08 <isabela> :)
17:22:12 <nickm> awesomesauce
17:22:18 <catalyst> yay
17:22:20 <isabela> i didnt send that tor launcher check in email last week
17:22:33 <isabela> but i will do it today and if you can reply with this update that would be awesome :)
17:22:35 <isis> i can't guarantee it's bug-free or anything, but it gives out captchas and bridges
17:22:43 <isabela> hehehe
17:22:54 <isabela> is cool, i bet folks will be happy to start testing it tho
17:23:15 <isis> haha that's one way to bug test
17:23:18 <catalyst> isabela: did you want to check in (with who other than me?) about error reporting stuff for sponsor8?
17:23:41 <isabela> catalyst: only you :) I am adding this to the tor launcher check in email as well
17:24:10 <isabela> i start writing before this meeting so it should go out right after
17:24:15 <catalyst> ok thanks
17:24:42 <nickm> armadev, isabela: in theory, per our roadmap, we should be figuring out a plan for a circumvention team and a list of hires for it, assuming that funding goes through.
17:24:46 <nickm> anybody want to lead that?
17:24:57 <isabela> nickm: i pinged armadev on that
17:24:58 <nickm> If the funding shows up, we'll wish we hadn't waited to plan :)
17:24:59 <isabela> yesterday
17:25:00 <nickm> ok awesome
17:25:12 <isabela> i think step zero is drafting job posts for positions we want to hire for this
17:25:26 <nickm> step -1 might be deciding what those positions are :)
17:25:29 <isabela> while armadev keeps bugging bucket person for the $$
17:25:36 <isabela> nickm: yep
17:26:11 <isabela> maybe we can talk about it at network ml
17:26:51 <isis> the circumvention team is just PTs or does it include stuff like bridgedb?
17:27:20 <isabela> good question
17:27:51 <isabela> isis: would you like it to include bridgedb?
17:27:58 <nickm> So, the team is hypothetical right now, so it's up to us to decide :)
17:28:04 <isis> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
17:28:07 <isabela> heheh
17:28:29 <isis> not sure, but i'd like to hear more about the new team, it sounds exciting
17:28:51 <isabela> yeah, we need a place to brainstorm and organize the ideas
17:29:00 <isabela> so we can make a plan of who to hire etc
17:29:51 <isabela> #action isabela to start a pad to brainstorm and organize ideas about the circumvention team
17:29:57 <isabela> what about that?
17:30:16 <isis> sounds good
17:30:26 <nickm> GeKo: btw, do I remember correctly that the next good time to put out a set of stable Tor releases would be mid-december?
17:30:45 <GeKo> yes
17:30:56 <GeKo> we are flexible here, though
17:30:59 <nickm> ok
17:31:08 <nickm> I'm currently planning around 8 Dec, but I'll let you know if that changes?
17:31:14 <GeKo> sounds good
17:31:14 <nickm> with an intermediate alpha release around 24 Nov
17:31:51 <nickm> isabela: sounds like a plan
17:31:53 <GeKo> that one we might skip as we have the snsor4 deadline
17:31:56 <nickm> makes sense
17:32:08 <GeKo> and want to test a 4week release schedule a bit first
17:32:10 <nickm> we recognize that doing more frequent alphas means that some of them will miss TBB
17:32:18 <GeKo> we've been making 4 releases in the last 4 weeks
17:32:24 <nickm> So, do we have anything else to plan or talk about at this meeting? :)
17:32:35 <isis> isabela: this is slightly off-topic, so we could talk elsewhere, but… do you feel like you have all the tools you need to organise us? there was discussion at the Montréal meeting of using a more sprinty, kanban-y thing to organise batches of tasks
17:32:40 <GeKo> it seems to me we need to get some actual work done again :)
17:33:12 <isabela> isis: yeah, i dont think i do, remember when i started and i was looking at some trac plugings etc?
17:33:36 <isabela> isis: also working with hiro we have been trying to figure out how to make decisions and pick better tools
17:33:46 <catalyst> isis: i'd be interested in talking about that too
17:33:49 <isabela> isis: but it has been a hard thing to do
17:34:02 <nickm> isabela: so, i don't want to speak for everybody else, but I did get the sense that people would be open to trying new things out
17:34:03 <isabela> isis: that said :) i havent give up yet
17:34:10 <isis> isabela: yeah i remember, and you really wanted the project management organising one but it was unmaintained iirc
17:34:21 <isabela> isis: yep
17:34:26 <isis> isabela: catalyst also has a bunch of good ideas and experience on this
17:34:39 <isabela> nickm: i feel that too
17:34:45 <isabela> maybe we should do a sync with hiro too
17:34:55 <hiro> I am here
17:34:56 <isabela> and see what we can do, test etc
17:34:59 <isabela> aha!
17:35:01 <dgoulet> nickm: the thing I would like your help is the tor-dev@ thread, armadev replied and seems it would *strongly* benefit from your input after armadev email
17:35:59 <isabela> catalyst: would be great to learn about what are the options out there
17:36:36 <nickm> dgoulet: ok.  I'll try to get to that today if I can
17:36:38 <nickm> tomorrow at the latest
17:36:55 <asn> boom around
17:36:59 <nickm> hi asn!
17:37:14 * asn scanning backlog
17:37:15 <isabela> isis catalyst hiro-> should we try a sync another time? Not sure if now we will have time
17:37:18 <mikeperry> I also appeared. the pad won't load for me and I was/am having internet issues
17:37:21 <isabela> !
17:37:28 <nickm> hi mikeperry !
17:37:32 <hiro> fine by me
17:37:34 <isabela> mikeperry: wc!
17:37:44 <mikeperry> (SyntaxError: missing } in compound statement in https://pad.riseup.net/static/js/require-kernel.js (line 4846))
17:37:49 <isabela> just reload
17:37:52 <catalyst> isabela: later this afternoon works for me, or can also do later this week
17:38:05 <isabela> yeah me too
17:38:39 <isis> asn: yo dude
17:39:08 <isis> mikeperry: o/ you're alice
17:39:12 <isis> *alive
17:39:28 <nickm> best typo
17:39:30 * nickm is bob
17:39:35 <isabela> hehe
17:39:41 <isis> haha, mikeperry, you could also be alice if you wanted
17:40:31 <dgoulet> sheit mikeperry \o/
17:41:04 <isis> isabela: catalyst: hiro: sure, we can have a meeting later about it, or just start a ML thread
17:41:06 <mikeperry> (I am slowly becoming alice. I mean alive. whatever.
17:41:09 <mikeperry> it's early
17:41:15 <GeKo> hi mike o/
17:41:21 <asn> mikeperry: o/
17:41:22 <asn> isis: o/
17:42:59 <hiro> isis: catalyst: isabela: "can later today" be not too late for me? it's 7pm here and I have another meeting in two hours
17:43:41 <isabela> lets do it later this week then
17:43:58 <nickm> It looks like we may be running out of topics for this meeting
17:44:02 <nickm> anything else we should talk about?
17:44:06 <isis> yeah, i was thinking another day since it's already late some places
17:44:34 <nickm> If you weren't here at the start, please remember to look at the announcements/discussion topics and at the # actions and  # items on the meetbot log
17:44:39 <dgoulet> I still see https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/teams/NetworkTeam/TeamRotations empty ...
17:44:43 <isis> nickm: for PQ stuff, should i attack the circuit-layer crypto first, or the TLS stuff we talked about, or both simultaneously?
17:44:44 <dgoulet> we have nobody for this week :S
17:45:00 <asn> ill take a rotation
17:45:08 <nickm> I'll take whatever nobody wants
17:45:12 <isis> i'll sign up for something, thanks for the reminder
17:45:14 <asn> ill take bvug triage
17:45:22 <nickm> isis: let's do those separately?  maybe circuit stuff first, since it seems closest to being ready
17:45:39 * asn took bug triage
17:46:20 <isis> nickm: okay
17:46:37 <isis> what does the jenkins rotation mean?
17:46:57 <nickm> keep an eye out when jenkins breaks, try to fix as needed?
17:47:28 <isis> (i don't know what any of the jenkins output is telling me, it just seems to be randomly half-broken all the time?)
17:48:14 <nickm> hm. how about I do it out loud on #tor-dev for a couple of weeks, so people can have a look
17:48:33 <isis> that would be super helpful!
17:49:04 <nickm> any more stuff for this week's meeting?
17:49:12 * nickm waits another 60s
17:49:26 <catalyst> tangentially related -- if people are making merge requests on oniongit, could you please make it against an updated master in your own repo?
17:50:32 <irl> nickm: what is your timeline on #23170? is that a thing happening soon?
17:50:57 <catalyst> (otherwise there are 2000+ commits if you make it against network/tor because nobody's updated in a few months. i have a mirroring script i should polish and deploy)
17:51:32 <nickm> irl: not sure yet.  It looks like it would be inefficient to do it in the way we had thought about.  Now I'm kinda reconsidering whether it's necessary, or whether to do something different.
17:51:41 <isis> #23170
17:51:56 <nickm> "Include ed25519 relay id keys in the consensus
17:51:57 <nickm> "
17:51:59 <isis> oh, no zwiebelbot?
17:52:12 <irl> nickm: ok, i'm just noticing that onionoo has no ed25519 keys and so atlas also doesn't tell you about them
17:52:14 <isis> or nickm is the new zwiebelbot :)
17:52:29 <dgoulet> thanks weasel ^
17:52:36 <nickm> ok
17:52:38 <nickm> time to #endmeeting
17:52:39 <nickm> #endmeeting