19:00:19 <GeKo> #startmeeting tor browser
19:00:19 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Mar  5 19:00:19 2018 UTC.  The chair is GeKo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:00:19 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:00:23 <GeKo> hi all!
19:00:27 <arthuredelstein> hi everyone!
19:00:31 <boklm> hi!
19:00:42 <GeKo> that's the last meeting before we meet face to face in rome, welcome!
19:01:04 <GeKo> as usual the pad should have the upadtes for this and last week
19:01:06 <isabela> !!!!!!!
19:01:19 <GeKo> please have a look and mark things bold you want to get discussed
19:01:26 <mcs> hi
19:01:29 <GeKo> the url is https://storm.torproject.org/shared/tHoN4Ii7rLSjPE0OP4gydX4cMGadsXmRQNc-6lwru0N
19:01:34 <igt0> howdy
19:01:44 <pospeselr> hello!
19:02:21 <sysrqb> o/
19:03:07 * antonela is lurking
19:04:27 * tjr is here, but doesn't have much to say, aside from very excited about the clang stuff!
19:04:53 <GeKo> isabela: the pad is not loading for me (the roadmap one)
19:05:07 <GeKo> i get an invalid token error
19:05:15 * GeKo tries harder
19:05:15 * boklm had to remove the ) from the URL
19:05:28 <tjr> (Actually I thought of something, bolding)
19:05:59 <GeKo> aha!
19:06:22 <GeKo> alright. let's get started
19:06:52 <GeKo> release preparations.
19:07:22 <GeKo> i think it's the first time we have to do a release during the dev meeting (at least one, maybe two due to pwn2own)
19:07:30 <GeKo> which is quite exciting
19:07:51 <GeKo> mozilla moved the release schedule after we finalized the meeting date, so here we are
19:08:22 <GeKo> i plan to have the bundles signed and on my people dir before i am leaving on saturday morning
19:08:44 <GeKo> if that's not working we'll see :)
19:09:12 <GeKo> there are a bunch of things up for review if any of you feels bored
19:09:25 <GeKo> for the stable #25112 is important
19:09:34 <isabela> GeKo: https://storm.torproject.org/shared/OUn6YN7BEK2QiJXdk8tXxep9u24oBMiZ2mavmfH_0Ky
19:09:43 <GeKo> the remaining things is alpha stuff as i see it
19:09:51 <GeKo> yeah, thanks.
19:10:28 <GeKo> i just wanted to  give that update here during the meeting so that everyone is aware of the plan at least
19:10:33 <GeKo> and in case there are questions
19:10:49 <sysrqb> what day is Mozilla releasing? Friday?
19:11:01 <GeKo> tuesday
19:11:13 <sysrqb> okay
19:11:18 <GeKo> during our unsrtructured day
19:11:32 <mcs> I plan to look at the #25112 changes after this meeting
19:11:37 <GeKo> which would allow us to look for fast internet and do the things we need to do
19:12:02 <GeKo> i already asked hellais and i am confident we can sort things out in case we have to do some signing etc during the meeting
19:12:17 <GeKo> it's only a ton of extra stress and distraction i like to avoid
19:12:19 * isabela ok i go!
19:12:21 <isabela> to another meeting!
19:12:37 <sysrqb> \o
19:12:37 <GeKo> isabela: i'll ping everyon about the pad
19:12:46 <GeKo> it's on the discussion items
19:14:14 <GeKo> tjr: replied on the pad
19:14:34 <GeKo> i think we should try to get the mingw thing for esr 60 in shape a last time
19:14:59 <tjr> okay; will dig into the x64 breaks on -central and try to clean them up!
19:15:02 <GeKo> and then fix all the remaining clang issues properly and get it into the shape we need
19:15:15 <GeKo> there is no DEP and ASLR yet (not sure how hard that is)
19:15:25 <GeKo> there are some ugly hacks for bugs i had to do
19:15:31 <GeKo> there is still a compiler crash
19:15:34 <GeKo> and on
19:15:51 <GeKo> and probably a ton of reproducibility issues we need to sort out
19:15:57 <tjr> Hey something else for everyone to think about in Rome, which ill put on the pad too: which is more valuable to do first: a proxy bypass test harness for mobile or for desktop?
19:16:08 <GeKo> we could think about switching to it for 8.5 maybe?
19:16:20 <GeKo> as i would like to have stylo enabled sooner than later
19:17:04 <sysrqb> i haven't looked, will stylo be optional in ESR60?
19:17:26 <GeKo> not sure yet
19:17:32 <tjr> It will be
19:17:40 <GeKo> ah, okay
19:17:42 <sysrqb> okay
19:17:52 <tjr> It still works today, and they're not going to rip it out during the soft code freeze or beta :)
19:18:07 <tjr> (It being --disable-stylo)
19:18:16 <GeKo> tjr: what timeframe for the test harness are you thinking about?
19:18:36 <GeKo> is it stuff that will be worked on starting from next week?
19:18:43 <GeKo> or in 3 months?
19:18:44 <GeKo> or?
19:18:53 <tjr> Heh. "2018". Deployed in Q3 at the earliest, but I want to start thinking about it and talking about it soonish
19:19:03 <sysrqb> hm
19:19:19 <tjr> As it will require infratructure changes in our test infrastructure so I want to start talkign to those folks sooner rather than latest
19:19:29 <GeKo> tjr: i think i tm ight make sense to start with mobile then
19:19:30 <sysrqb> given the uncertainty around the future of mobile with fennec/focus, etc
19:19:47 <sysrqb> it might be easier with mobile, maybe
19:19:49 <tjr> We think Mobile will be much easier. So there is that.
19:19:53 <GeKo> because i expect much more issues on that platform than on desktop
19:20:14 <arthuredelstein> What do we need to do to be ready to enable stylo?
19:20:21 <sysrqb> yes, it definitely will be more useful, immediately on mobile
19:20:47 <GeKo> arthuredelstein: fix https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1390583 properly
19:21:04 <GeKo> well, we can enable it on linux and os x
19:21:07 <GeKo> i guess
19:21:12 <GeKo> and we should
19:21:20 <GeKo> but the tricky one is windows
19:21:55 <arthuredelstein> I see
19:22:02 <GeKo> igt0: sysrqb: while looking over your items: what's the state of the roadmap you have been working on?
19:22:20 <GeKo> i think it would be neat to have something to read before we meet in rome
19:22:26 <GeKo> if t hat's possible
19:22:44 <sysrqb> I have a draft I wrote a few weeks ago
19:22:45 <GeKo> just to have some time to think about it with a text and some ideas in front
19:22:56 <sysrqb> but not much progress since then
19:23:13 <arthuredelstein> even a rough draft can be good for getting fast feedback
19:23:14 <sysrqb> maybe we can work on it and send out a link on Wednessday?
19:23:18 <GeKo> ok. if you think it could be helpful please pass the text along
19:23:30 <GeKo> what arthur said
19:23:35 <GeKo> sysrqb: yes, that would rock
19:23:39 <GeKo> or even friday
19:24:13 <sysrqb> okay, igt0 and I will work on that and send an email to the list with text and a link to the pad
19:24:23 <igt0> it is stalled, however after the sysrqb investigation about feature extension, i think it will be easier to propose something more concrete.
19:25:16 <igt0> +1
19:25:36 <GeKo> thanks, sounds good
19:26:00 <GeKo> do we have anything else before we move on to the discussion items?
19:26:20 <arthuredelstein> I was curious about sysrqb's comment to me
19:27:03 <GeKo> oh, yes
19:27:05 <sysrqb> I wasn't sure there was something to discuss
19:27:06 <GeKo> sysrqb: you are up
19:27:08 <arthuredelstein> sysrqb: Any more details?
19:27:09 <sysrqb> but happy to do it
19:27:21 <arthuredelstein> Looked like you were going to write more :)
19:27:34 <sysrqb> oh, i see! :
19:27:50 <sysrqb> the pad timeed out and I guess the end of that sentence didn't sync
19:27:56 <sysrqb> anyway
19:28:03 <arthuredelstein> Do you know when that discussion will be? I'm definitely interested in discussing localization
19:28:07 <sysrqb> "I'm interested in that conversation"
19:28:14 <sysrqb> so no
19:28:33 <sysrqb> I spoken with Erin, and she's under the impression you and colin are already planning on discussing it
19:28:44 <sysrqb> re Localization Lab
19:28:54 <arthuredelstein> That's true, although I don't know if we have it on a schedule yet.
19:29:32 <arthuredelstein> I'll make sure you hear about it if we decide on a time.
19:30:19 <arthuredelstein> OK, I think we're done with that one! :)
19:30:26 <sysrqb> sorry
19:30:37 <sysrqb> they kicked me out of another area :/
19:30:49 <sysrqb> but yes, i think having that conversation will be good
19:30:57 <arthuredelstein> great!
19:31:17 <sysrqb> i know some translators are upset they put in time for creating new localization and they never get used
19:31:41 <arthuredelstein> yes, it's a serious problem I think and I'm hoping we can work out a strategy in Rome.
19:31:55 <sysrqb> cool, sounds good, thanks
19:31:59 <GeKo> what is missing?
19:32:59 <GeKo> i thought the way to get more localized tor browsers out was pretty clear?
19:32:59 <sysrqb> which languages?
19:33:23 <sysrqb> multilang?
19:33:40 <sysrqb> i know we're limited by which langpacks mozilla provide
19:33:50 <GeKo> ah, okay, the whole discussion then, good :)
19:34:00 <arthuredelstein> Yeah, there are just a lot of details.
19:34:06 <GeKo> don't worry about that limit for now
19:34:15 <arthuredelstein> One of the big questions is multi-lang vs many single-locale bundles
19:34:21 <GeKo> we are far from having that problem at the moment :)
19:34:42 <arthuredelstein> GeKo: I'm not sure we ever came to a conclusion about fastly either
19:35:00 <GeKo> fastly?
19:35:37 <GeKo> ok, i see, let's not derail the meetin and talk about it in rome :)
19:35:42 <GeKo> *meeting
19:35:47 <GeKo> so discussion items:
19:35:47 <arthuredelstein> When we were discussing adding locales earlier, there was a conversation about whether there would be a problem with permitted bandwidth via fastly
19:35:51 <arthuredelstein> yup
19:36:14 <GeKo> yeah, true
19:36:17 <GeKo> ok
19:36:37 <GeKo> 1) the meeting pad. please fill in details for things you want to have on our agenda
19:37:10 <GeKo> this will help the whole discussion (otherwise it's only stuff isa and i will bring up)
19:37:36 <GeKo> it's not only about roadmapping but all the other meeting we have as well
19:38:38 <GeKo> i there are things not fitting to any of the items on the pad
19:39:04 <GeKo> but you think it's still important let isa and me know so we can think about how to address those issues
19:39:24 <GeKo> letting them fall through the cracks is a bad solution :)
19:39:53 <sysrqb> should we do a mobile show-and-tell on Sunday? or should we do it another day?
19:40:05 <sysrqb> probably only 15-20 min, I think
19:40:09 <sysrqb> unless there are many questions
19:40:24 <GeKo> sounds good
19:40:42 <GeKo> we have two hours for roadmapping
19:40:57 <GeKo> i think we could have that block as the intro for the mobile part
19:41:23 <GeKo> and then create a preliminary roadmap
19:41:30 <sysrqb> that'll work for me
19:41:43 <GeKo> and refine that later on taking all the things we learned throught the week
19:41:48 <GeKo> into account
19:41:49 <arthuredelstein> just to confirm: we should be filling in details on this pad, right? https://storm.torproject.org/grain/wyfgitPrKrr6sgXrvMQEyG/
19:42:20 <GeKo> arthuredelstein: https://storm.torproject.org/shared/2RXUuAa_G4_GNy5yHFt8gjFqOv2wAJeq8-_0mQmSBiP
19:42:33 <GeKo> i don't have access to the former, so dunno
19:42:54 <GeKo> *through
19:43:01 <arthuredelstein> Oh good, seems to redirect to the same thing
19:43:05 <GeKo> okay, and 2) next meeting
19:43:14 <GeKo> i know it's early to think about that :)
19:43:35 <GeKo> but anyway, we are in rome next monday, so no irc thing
19:43:48 <GeKo> and i think we can skip the one on the monday thereafter as well
19:44:17 <GeKo> so, the next irc meeting would then be on march 26
19:44:26 <GeKo> does that sound reasonable?
19:44:30 <boklm> yes
19:44:45 <mcs> the 26th sounds good to me. We also need to remember about time changes (daylight/summer time)
19:44:58 <sysrqb> yes, I saw the networking team mentioned that, too
19:45:00 <GeKo> indeed
19:45:07 <GeKo> so 1800 UTC?
19:45:42 <sysrqb> sure
19:46:05 <mcs> sounds good to me
19:46:13 <GeKo> k
19:46:20 <sysrqb> (this time works for me, I don't know if another time woould be better for anyone else)
19:46:22 <GeKo> i'll try to find out what the  network folks are doing
19:46:35 <GeKo> so that we don't collide with our meetings
19:46:36 <boklm> 1800 UTC sounds good to me
19:46:59 <sysrqb> GeKo: I think they're discussing it in rome
19:47:09 <GeKo> sounds good
19:47:24 <GeKo> ok, do we have anything else for today?
19:48:22 <GeKo> hearing nothing. okay, thanks for attending and safe travels everyone o/ *baf*
19:48:26 <GeKo> #endmeeting