18:59:48 <GeKo> #startmeeting tor-browser
18:59:48 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue Apr  3 18:59:48 2018 UTC.  The chair is GeKo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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18:59:52 <GeKo> hi all!
18:59:53 <arthuredelstein> hi everyone
19:00:06 <mcs> hi
19:00:06 <boklm> hi
19:00:16 <antonela> o/
19:00:19 <igt0> !
19:00:19 <GeKo> it's a bit unusual to have the meeting today at this time but i hope everyone could/can make it though
19:00:25 <isabela> vixe maria
19:00:27 <isabela> o/
19:00:33 <GeKo> if you have not done so yet, please fill in your items onto the pad
19:00:40 <GeKo> https://storm.torproject.org/shared/tHoN4Ii7rLSjPE0OP4gydX4cMGadsXmRQNc-6lwru0N
19:01:15 <GeKo> if you have already, please read over the items and mark those bold you want to have discussed/discuss
19:01:48 <Riastradh> Hi!
19:01:59 <GeKo> o/
19:03:11 <Riastradh> Just thought I'd let you folks know that Brave is planning to put out our first beta with Tor support in private tabs in a couple weeks.
19:03:27 <GeKo> sounds good!
19:03:39 <Riastradh> Happy to talk about it, or write something into your pad, or answer any questions you folks have, if you want to use any of your time in this meeting for that.
19:03:41 <GeKo> where can one read about how this is designed and supposed to work?
19:04:25 <Riastradh> The current public-facing documentation draft is this: https://github.com/brave/browser-laptop/wiki/Brave-Tor-Support#tor-faq
19:04:34 <Riastradh> (Just the Tor FAQ section; the rest of it above that section is out of date.)
19:05:33 <sysrqb> .
19:05:40 <Riastradh> The quick summary is that we're providing a single toggle switch to use Tor for all private tabs, with the goal of thwarting the vast majority of easy IP-based tracking and a few related things -- a much more modest goal than the Tor Browser aims for, for a broader audience.
19:06:45 <Riastradh> We have a Github `project' tracking Tor-related issues, but apparently Github projects suck and we can't make them public or something.
19:07:03 <GeKo> ok, thanks.
19:07:14 <Riastradh> We don't have a build that's easy for anyone to try yet, but working on that this week.
19:07:35 <GeKo> alright. looking at the pad it seems tjr is up first
19:08:00 <GeKo> tjr: the canvas thing seems interesting
19:08:24 <GeKo> the other two i don't think so
19:08:40 <GeKo> although i am not sure what's up with the local ip address leak
19:08:57 <GeKo> i mean we disable webrtc during compile time
19:09:52 <arthuredelstein> ideally we would like to re-enable webrtc if it could be made "safe"
19:10:13 <arthuredelstein> though I don't know if that's possible or not
19:10:16 <GeKo> yes, but that's not a thing for esr60
19:10:38 <arthuredelstein> oh, sorry, makes sense
19:11:17 <GeKo> okay, maybe tjr chimes in later on, sysrqb you are up
19:11:31 <GeKo> so
19:11:49 <GeKo> we are blocked on arthur getting the rebase done
19:12:00 <GeKo> once that is done and the branch is reviewed and we are got
19:12:02 <GeKo> *good
19:12:19 <GeKo> there will be a new alpha branch available
19:12:40 <sysrqb> okay, what happens after android moves to FF62 (?) and desktop stays on ESR?
19:12:56 <sysrqb> maybe this is a little too far ahead, and not something we should worry about right now
19:13:02 <GeKo> we need a new branch for mobile alpha tracking that one
19:13:08 <sysrqb> okay
19:13:10 <GeKo> no, not really
19:13:36 <GeKo> but i think it might be easier to rebase the thing arthur is coming up with onto fx62
19:13:44 <GeKo> than doing the rebase for mobile in parallel
19:14:04 <GeKo> does that make sense?
19:14:11 <sysrqb> okay, makes sense
19:14:17 <arthuredelstein> i think that makes sense
19:14:27 <GeKo> good
19:14:28 <sysrqb> and review process for mobile specific-patches is igt0 and i review, and then you do a higher-level review and merge?
19:14:38 <arthuredelstein> Would be great if someone can help me with the mobile patches for rebasing to ESR60
19:14:47 <sysrqb> of course :)
19:14:51 <GeKo> sysrqb: we could start with that process
19:14:55 <arthuredelstein> :)
19:15:00 <sysrqb> okay
19:15:14 <GeKo> yes, please split that work and involve sysrqb and igt0 where needed
19:15:19 <sysrqb> sounds good, thanks
19:15:31 <GeKo> that way we might get faster to a reviewed branch we can use further
19:15:49 <arthuredelstein> I haven't looked at the mobile patches yet, so if you'd like to start with those now that is probably the most efficient
19:16:41 <arthuredelstein> (sysrqb and igt0)
19:16:47 <sysrqb> yeah, on my list for this week
19:16:55 <GeKo> great
19:16:57 <sysrqb> i can split with igt0, too
19:17:15 <igt0> +1 :)
19:17:47 <GeKo> okay, let's move on to pospeselr's fun bug
19:17:54 <pospeselr> haha
19:18:05 <pospeselr> so any ideas?
19:18:16 <GeKo> talking to jld?
19:18:24 <GeKo> does he have any ideas?
19:18:48 <pospeselr> i'll hit him up after the meeting
19:19:10 <GeKo> usually in #boxing on the moz irc network
19:19:20 <GeKo> so, that's my only idea i h ave right now
19:19:36 <igt0> what *bsd does? since the /proc is not mounted by default
19:20:00 <pospeselr> the bsd section of the code also makes a call to the same pthreads API
19:20:10 <pospeselr> which presumably routes to some syscall BSD has that linux does not
19:20:39 * mcs just added a question for arthuredelstein to the pad
19:20:51 <Riastradh> What does *BSD do for what?  I know a thing or two about BSD.
19:21:11 <pospeselr> getting the stack base address and size
19:21:23 <pospeselr> for the current thread
19:21:43 <pospeselr> specifically this API: pthread_getattr_np()
19:22:59 <Riastradh> Ah.  Hm.  NetBSD just has pthread_getattr_np to begin with.  Not sure about the other BSDs off the top of my head.  The pthread_t structure just has a pointer to the stack base as a member.
19:23:26 <pospeselr> yeah, same in Linux
19:23:40 <pospeselr> but it populates that struct by parsing /proc/self/maps :(
19:24:49 <GeKo> ok. let's try figuring something out after you talked to jld and other moz folks
19:24:58 <pospeselr> yep that's the next logical step
19:25:01 <GeKo> i hope that helps already :)
19:25:25 <GeKo> alright, isabela you are up
19:26:40 <isabela> ok
19:26:46 <isabela> arthuredelstein: main question for you
19:27:13 <isabela> i would like to work on that pick a country UI just as a test first
19:27:22 <isabela> have a few versions and test them before having it part of a release
19:27:24 <isabela> if its ok
19:28:02 <arthuredelstein> What kind of test do you have in mind?
19:28:10 <isabela> (this is an item in september)
19:28:28 <arthuredelstein> Like a wireframe test, or a special build, or?
19:28:41 <isabela> arthuredelstein: i was thinking of having builds with different UIs we can test with people (via sponsor9 testing program)
19:28:56 <isabela> this can be something user research coordinator can help organize
19:29:40 <arthuredelstein> That sounds cool to me! :) I guess I tend to lean toward trying to get MVPs out, but this is quite a challenging project, so I can imagine some early tests might be useful
19:29:51 <isabela> yes
19:30:05 <isabela> i think we could have one that is not part of a release where we send to specific ppl to test etc
19:30:20 <arthuredelstein> another way of splitting up the project could be by country
19:30:25 <isabela> that is what i am suggesting :) can be a mvp but not a build part of a release
19:31:06 <arthuredelstein> yeah, sounds great I think. But others here may have an opinion too :)
19:31:28 <mcs> I think I am missing some context. Is this related to the recent grant proposal or ?
19:31:44 <GeKo> yes and no
19:31:49 <isabela> is related to the feature not the grant itself
19:32:03 <isabela> the one click solve all censorship problems feature
19:32:06 <GeKo> it was an idea that already came up before the grant proposal
19:32:33 <arthuredelstein> An important question is who might be implementing these test UIs as well. It seems like mcs and brade are perhaps the most natural choice. So their opinion is surely more important than mine :)
19:33:03 <isabela> oh ok
19:33:12 <isabela> i guess i saw your name near it somewhere
19:33:31 <isabela> at the roadmap actually
19:33:32 <isabela> :)
19:33:40 <mcs> I would like to see the goals written down for this feature but creating some UI prototypes for testing certainly could be done/
19:33:41 <mcs> .
19:34:03 <isabela> mcs for the automation feature
19:34:26 <isabela> a big question is 'will we freak users out by asking their country info or trying to guess it?'
19:34:42 <isabela> this will be a research to see how to do that
19:35:06 <isabela> can be wireframes or it could be a build we try with an ui (that is not part of any release, just for the tests)
19:35:08 <GeKo> the bigger one is even "does it help to provide circumvention on a per country level?"
19:35:17 <isabela> that too
19:35:34 <mcs> That last question is more difficult to test, maybe.
19:35:46 <mcs> Or hard to know if you have acquired enough data points.
19:35:48 <arthuredelstein> that's partly a question for ooni, right?
19:35:50 <isabela> solving one question doesnt mean the feature will be done as its a feature that brings a lot of questions
19:35:52 <GeKo> yes
19:35:55 <isabela> so the grant proposal is to solve some of them
19:36:02 <igt0> GeKo, mcs yep, how do we measure it?
19:36:07 <isabela> this idea to test the ui for country selection is for another
19:36:08 <isabela> etc
19:36:50 <GeKo> igt0: without even getting fake data just for ooni probes, yes!
19:36:52 <sysrqb> i tihnk this is a step in the right direction, but it probably won't work as well as we hope it will
19:37:11 <GeKo> well, i have not much hope, so... :)
19:37:29 <GeKo> but, yes, we should look at it
19:37:34 <arthuredelstein> I seem to be the naive optimist here :)
19:37:47 <isabela> i believe in digging
19:37:48 <isabela> and learning
19:37:50 <antonela> im optimist too
19:37:58 <isabela> then i make a decision
19:37:59 <isabela> hehe
19:38:37 <GeKo> okay, let's move to the discussion parts i think
19:39:08 <GeKo> oh, boklm: please skip the work on #18867 for now
19:39:22 <GeKo> we should work on getting the test suites running first
19:39:29 <boklm> ok
19:39:41 <GeKo> i don't want to have another release cycle flying blind :)
19:39:53 <GeKo> okay, discussion time
19:40:18 <GeKo> isabela: do you want to say something about the all hands thing and the meeting tomorrow?
19:40:46 <GeKo> (or not just meeting tomorrow but general syncs with the ux team)
19:40:48 <isabela> circuit display
19:41:06 <isabela> security controls
19:41:11 <isabela> i will email the list
19:41:18 <isabela> every week we will rotate
19:41:43 <isabela> but april will be about TB mobile and desktop
19:41:53 <isabela> that is a lot on your roadmap that expect us to be done in april :)
19:42:03 <antonela> (and on ours)
19:42:05 <isabela> therefore quick feedback loops will be important
19:42:36 <isabela> that is why we are dedicating all wed's of april to TB team syncs
19:42:44 <GeKo> if you feel it's too much i am fine postponing stuff
19:42:57 <isabela> we do have some stuff to move to may if necessary
19:43:01 <isabela> that wont hurt your roadmap
19:43:04 <isabela> but we will yell :)
19:43:05 <GeKo> yep
19:43:06 <isabela> if we need to
19:43:13 <GeKo> please do
19:43:16 <isabela> :)
19:43:26 <Riastradh> pospeselr: FYI, privmsg about stack addr/size re #20283.
19:43:54 <GeKo> okay, we should start thinking about who from the browser team should/wants to be at the all hands meeting
19:44:06 <GeKo> isabela is organizing this year
19:44:11 <mcs> I may miss the UX sync this week (I am not 100% sure if I will be afk during that time or not)
19:44:13 <GeKo> and we basically have this week
19:44:30 * isabela needs names yes
19:44:31 <isabela> :)
19:44:41 <GeKo> so, please speak up here if you want to go, not to go
19:44:49 <arthuredelstein> I would like to go
19:44:50 <GeKo> or just ping isa later on
19:45:05 <isabela> 11-16 of june btw
19:45:07 <isabela> in sf
19:45:08 <GeKo> i guess having mobile folks at the all hands would be good
19:45:13 <isabela> yes
19:45:15 <isabela> i agree
19:45:19 <GeKo> and general some tor browser presence
19:45:34 <sysrqb> i can go
19:45:39 <GeKo> i won't come but we have plenty of people who could fill that spot
19:46:21 <mcs> Kathy and I cannot go anywhere during that part of June (family stuff here)
19:46:55 <GeKo> okay, final item is the roadmap
19:47:05 <GeKo> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1joFGDiHaqlorGeXhytKakiSnWY9TqTDv5XqmbT3FkX8/edit#gid=0
19:47:05 <isabela> ok
19:47:10 <isabela> sysrqb: noted
19:47:15 <isabela> arthuredelstein: noted
19:47:25 <pospeselr> isabela: I'm down to go to all-hands :)
19:47:31 <isabela> pospeselr: noted
19:47:32 <isabela> :)
19:47:33 <GeKo> i think we are mostly good
19:47:41 <GeKo> isa and i at least can live with it :)
19:47:50 <GeKo> but it is still not set in stone
19:47:51 <isabela> hahaha
19:48:08 <isabela> yes we should review it every week or something to make sure its real
19:48:09 <mcs> Kathy and I plan to review it this week. Of course we planned to do that last week too ;)
19:48:16 <GeKo> igt0: sysrqb: please look at the april items
19:48:17 <isabela> mcs: hehe
19:48:22 <isabela> story of my life
19:48:25 <GeKo> in particular the alpha blockers
19:48:35 <GeKo> that's the stuff to focus right now
19:48:59 <GeKo> so, torbutton and tor launcher integration are important, too, but
19:49:08 <sysrqb> i also began adding the items here:
19:49:10 <GeKo> looking at our planned alpha slightly on the back burner
19:49:11 <sysrqb> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/teams/ApplicationsTeam/TorBrowserAndroid/Roadmap#RomeRoadmap-2018
19:49:18 <sysrqb> yeah
19:49:25 <GeKo> oh, neat
19:49:28 <sysrqb> overall i think the items look good
19:50:07 <GeKo> i wonder whether we should use some color coding for things we already finished and those we started to work on?
19:50:25 <GeKo> our resident spreadsheet guru indicated such a thing
19:50:30 <sysrqb> yes, that is a good idea
19:50:31 <sysrqb> heh
19:50:34 <isabela> ha
19:51:00 <GeKo> okay, i'll use yellow for stuff we are currently working on and green for stuff we have already done
19:51:08 <GeKo> i'll skip red :)
19:51:33 <sysrqb> sounds good
19:51:57 <GeKo> sysrqb: good stuff that wiki page!
19:52:29 <GeKo> okay, any comments? anything else for today?
19:53:33 <igt0> GeKo, yep about the Review of play store stats
19:53:50 <isabela> i will get to yall soon
19:53:51 <igt0> how are we going to sync bugs reported in the play store and our trac system?
19:54:03 <isabela> i've been doing that for the sponsor and will have to do it this month for q1 report
19:54:22 <isabela> is this something you need soon or is ok to get done when i get it done for the report
19:54:25 <isabela> ?
19:54:56 <igt0> not now, i am asking because normally the users report bugs there instead of trac.
19:55:04 <isabela> true
19:55:15 <isabela> for more often then my reports
19:55:26 <isabela> one thing we can do is that the person who does the user advocate stuff
19:55:28 <sysrqb> i guess we should monitor those comments and we open tickets
19:55:39 <sysrqb> oh, good idea, that's true
19:55:39 <isabela> can help keeping an eye there
19:56:13 <igt0> cool beans!
19:56:58 <GeKo> alright, sounds good
19:57:28 <isabela> :)
19:57:30 <GeKo> okay, thanks for the meeting! and have a nice week everyone *baf*
19:57:33 <GeKo> #endmeeting