13:59:00 <antonela> #startmeeting ux team meeting
13:59:00 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue Sep 11 13:59:00 2018 UTC.  The chair is antonela. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:59:00 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
13:59:03 <antonela> hi all!
13:59:10 * isabela is lurking
13:59:16 <antonela> another tor ux meeting here!
13:59:45 <flexlibris> wooooo
13:59:57 <antonela> first of all, i put together a pad to have this meeting more organized.
14:00:07 <antonela> so, if you are on this meeting and you have updates, please add your updates there
14:00:14 <antonela> if you are not on this meeting, but you want to leave updates, you can do it anyways
14:00:26 <antonela> https://storm.torproject.org/shared/C5JZk6K1V0nyqMQWDCgrl1Ua7pgBe498fUxZIV9kcwm
14:00:28 <antonela> ^^^^^
14:01:06 <antonela> also, i included an agenda because people have ux items to talk about and i felt like we didn't make the space to do it
14:01:18 <antonela> so, now we have this space too
14:02:19 <antonela> oh wayward you are around :)
14:02:35 <wayward> hi!
14:02:39 * traumschule signs in
14:02:53 <antonela> i'll give a couple of minutes for people to update the pad and then we can go with the agenda items
14:03:00 <antonela> if you want to add items please do it!
14:05:40 <antonela> okey, lets start with the agenda items
14:06:13 <antonela> 1. i put together the report for the ux team in august, please take a look and let me know if i'm missing anything!
14:07:56 <emmapeel> ey there sorry im late
14:08:31 <antonela> 2. the state of onion (SOTO) is a great initiative to give an update to the community about all the teams work across the project. I listed our major achievements there and I'd like to make it together. So please, write everything you want to get highlighted there
14:08:34 <antonela> hola ema!
14:10:25 <flexlibris> this list for the SOTO looks great antonela
14:10:31 <flexlibris> something we talked about in the community team meeting yesterday
14:10:49 <flexlibris> is that for the open days, it would be nice to shorten it and do the update in EN and ES
14:10:58 <flexlibris> (I know you were there I'm just saying it for everyone's benefit)
14:11:01 <antonela> flexlibris: we are sharing items for sure, also with the browser team, but since we have 5-7 minutes we can focus on the ux part
14:11:08 <antonela> yes
14:11:15 <flexlibris> yes and we will focus on different areas of the shared items anyway
14:11:30 <antonela> about the ES yes, i speak spanish so i can do it :)
14:11:34 <flexlibris> :)
14:12:39 <antonela> i feel like people is still updating the pad, so i'll go slowly
14:14:39 <antonela> about the item 3. i'm sharing here a pad that arthuredelstein and me put together to talk about in Mexico. I'm doing it because you maybe have ideas/insights/userissues/research about how to approach/advance on those tasks and could be cool if you have it somewhere for the meeting in mexico
14:16:06 <wayward> oh cool, I have some ideas, though it looks like they may already be on the pad haha
14:16:12 <antonela> if you have any question, please stop me
14:16:39 <antonela> wayward: great! you will be collecting user issues so if you can report on those topics, will be awesome
14:16:54 <wayward> cool!
14:17:16 <antonela> wayward: most of this list have been made with users in mind, so you will find complains about those haha
14:17:42 <antonela> cool
14:17:52 <antonela> item 4. hi Elioooo o/
14:19:05 <antonela> OONI folks will join our ux meetings to work, discuss and run design reviews together -- happy to have you here!
14:19:57 <emmapeel> traumschule: reading your update. about lektor, did you read https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/operations/services/support ?
14:20:34 <traumschule> not yet. looks useful, thanks!
14:20:51 <antonela> so, we can move to discussions -- wayward looks like you are the first :)
14:21:06 <wayward> hi everyone!
14:21:15 <wayward> my name's Maggie, I'm the new user advocate :)
14:21:40 <wayward> I just wanted to establish contact with you all and share the new user feedback sheet I've made:
14:21:49 <emmapeel> nice one!
14:21:51 <wayward> https://storm.torproject.org/shared/mPq1dBuXpcPIk1W5QUI883VHHKpkgR65Z6RIJmGbFO3
14:22:00 <antonela> nyinz ^^
14:22:14 <wayward> it's pretty much the same as the previous sheet, but if you have any suggestions for fields to add, please let me know!
14:22:27 <wayward> I also hope you'll all feel free to contact me for any reason :)
14:22:55 <wayward> I have a question - what is the best place to ask questions about UX, expected behaviour, etc?
14:23:16 <antonela> wayward: i think it looks great, most of the time we have duplicated issues and as arthur said yesterday will be extremely useful if we have some quantitative report about it, like *a lot of people* mentioned it
14:23:26 <antonela> wayward: i think that here is a good place to talk :)
14:23:29 <wayward> ah ok cool!!
14:23:47 <wayward> oh yeah, I also wanted to ask how people feel about a monthly user feedback report in a mailing list or something
14:24:01 <wayward> would that be helpful?
14:24:10 <antonela> developers meeting is cool also hey have the technical background we need to make decisions, but if is more related with user behaviour, i'll be happy to discuss it here
14:24:16 <antonela> yes, is useful
14:24:27 <nyinz> yes!
14:24:35 <wayward> ok, great! I will work on setting that up this week then!
14:24:51 <wayward> that's it for me!
14:24:51 <emmapeel> if it is about decisions, i would also suggest trac tickets sometimes
14:25:00 <antonela> awesome, super happy to have you here Maggie!
14:25:08 <wayward> emmapeel: good suggestion, thank you!
14:25:12 <antonela> emmapeel: you right - tickets hosts discussions
14:25:18 <wayward> I'm super happy to be here!
14:25:24 <antonela> :D
14:25:30 <emmapeel> wayward: let me know if you need help setting up the gpg setup!
14:25:47 <antonela> elio, do you want to give us a quick intro about what you are working on and where do you need help?
14:25:49 <wayward> hehe I might email you to test it, emmapeel
14:25:55 <antonela> haha
14:25:59 <emmapeel> wayward: dont hesitate!
14:28:33 <antonela> traumschule: i moved one of your items to the discussion part
14:29:23 <hellais> It seems like the slack bridge is not working properly
14:29:33 <hellais> It only relays messages one way
14:29:35 <traumschule> that's good!
14:29:47 <antonela> hellais: oh :(
14:29:48 <hellais> Elio wrote:
14:29:49 <hellais> Sorry, internet went off for a few min
14:29:50 <hellais> Thanks for the warm welcome! If it's not too late I'd like to add something about 4. as well
14:30:16 <hellais> @elioqoshi: I can be your proxy while I look into fixing the bridge
14:30:36 <antonela> a human proxy, what beautiful is that ha
14:30:57 <antonela> yes! do you want to give us a quick recap about where you are with this redesign and where do you need help?
14:31:06 <Elio> I am here
14:31:07 <Elio> No worries
14:31:10 <antonela> \o/
14:31:36 <Elio> Yeah so basically you can see in the link that we have a draft for OONI Explorer
14:31:51 <slacktopus> <hellais> Test
14:32:00 <hellais> Ok it's working again now
14:32:09 <Elio> Yeah seems so
14:32:16 <slacktopus> <hellais> :party_parrot:
14:32:50 <antonela> yes, im looking into it
14:33:02 <antonela> which is your blocker with the color palette?
14:33:02 <Elio> I have not much of background in accessibility so I am unsure myself now as some of the color combinations are not WCAG compliant
14:33:13 <antonela> i see
14:33:25 <Elio> Mostly white text on test category background color
14:33:32 <Elio> (like white on Anomaly orange)
14:33:50 <Elio> It passes AA sometimes but usually not AAA
14:34:05 <Elio> And we don't want to go back and forth with these changes and think about the best way
14:34:35 <Elio> As making them properly  WCAG passable made them aesthetically not too pleasing in my opinion
14:34:42 <antonela> cool, i think is a great problem to have :)
14:35:15 <emmapeel> is like those othopedic shoes that are always so ugly :S
14:35:21 <emmapeel> orthopedic
14:35:27 <Elio> Another option could be having the apps have a11y settings which can be enabled, but that means maintaining 2 separate stylesheets and is quite more work
14:35:34 <Elio> Yeah somehow
14:35:52 <Elio> I researched quite a lot of styleguides and they often fail WCAG
14:35:57 <antonela> listen, what if you go back to your color palette and find a color palette that is useful for what you are going to use it. And shades also can help for backgrounds too
14:36:11 <Elio> So I'm unsure of best practices
14:36:36 <antonela> material documentation is very good
14:36:45 <antonela> i found those for you
14:36:46 <Elio> Currently each test has only 1 color and shade. Do you think it would be okay to add one more shade for each color?
14:36:50 <antonela> https://material.io/tools/color
14:36:50 <antonela> https://material.io/design/color/text-legibility.html#legibility-standards
14:36:50 <antonela> https://material.io/design/usability/accessibility.html#color-contrast
14:36:52 <antonela> https://github.com/leaverou/contrast-ratio
14:37:21 <Elio> Anyhow, I'd love to have this discussion in Mexico if you and others would have a small time window free for this
14:37:27 <antonela> is useful to have more than two shades!
14:37:30 <Elio> Thanks, will check out these
14:37:36 <antonela> yes, sure we can talk about it
14:38:00 <antonela> hey those mocks are good!
14:38:18 <hellais> I don't think having two stylesheets is something we want to do
14:38:44 <antonela> you dont need two stylesheets, you can extend your color palette shades and it is
14:38:44 <hellais> If the contrast of the colors are not good enough to warrant having another stylesheet, we should fix that and not have to maintain two different styles
14:39:08 <hellais> I also don't think it's necessary to have every possible combination pass both the large font and small font requirements
14:39:19 <hellais> As long as they work for the context in which we plan to use them, then it should be ok
14:39:26 <antonela> https://hihayk.github.io/scale/
14:39:30 <antonela> this is great too ^^
14:39:43 <hellais> It's probably, though, good to have them pass at least one of the two, otherwise it's an unusable color and we should not have it in our palette
14:40:03 <Elio> Yeah AA always needs to pass
14:40:09 <antonela> hellais: i used to work with a yellow brand and you could image how hard is that
14:40:10 <Elio> With either white or black
14:40:45 <antonela> you can have all the shades and then be sure that you are switching from white/dark for the text in order to achieve AA
14:40:48 <hellais> antonela: ah nice, that programattic palette generation was the approach I had initially followed for creating the palette
14:40:54 <Elio> We also use the full color palette of Open Color and I think that it might be overkill and limiting us in using only colors from this scale if we want to be also a11y friendly
14:41:02 <hellais> But then we decided that we would just pick the opencolors palette and make some tweaks to some of the colors
14:41:06 <antonela> open color is cool, but have problems!
14:41:09 <Elio> http://design.ooni.io/colors/
14:41:25 <hellais> yeah we noticed
14:41:46 <Elio> In practice though, it looked promising in theory and preview :p
14:41:54 <hellais> Elio: did you check how well the programatically generated palette performed on the W3C scale?
14:42:33 <Elio> No, that was the one you did last year right? How can we access that?
14:42:59 <emmapeel> i think there is a typo on the color  paletter (OMG this tells so much about me, finding typos on a color palette):it is fuchsia, not fuschia
14:43:07 <antonela> emmapeel: lol
14:43:18 <emmapeel> i am so verbal :S
14:43:25 <Elio> Yeah, we knew about it for a year or so but never fixed it properly *ashamed*
14:43:32 * antonela gets distracted looking all the colors 🌈
14:43:36 <hellais> Elio: here it is: https://github.com/ooni/design-system/blob/964df49502f1cc87d807904748c0408eb75697c9/components/theme/colors.js
14:44:09 <hellais> For those interested here is an explaination of how it's created: https://github.com/ooni/design-system/blob/964df49502f1cc87d807904748c0408eb75697c9/guide/content/Colors.md#palette
14:44:11 <antonela> great, elio do you have info to move forward? we can still talk about it in mexico too
14:44:23 <antonela> we know that you are a color fan arturo!
14:44:27 <traumschule> scrolling up and down is fun
14:44:34 <Elio> Yeah let us not keep the meeting
14:44:43 <Elio> Thanks! I might backchanel at some point but this should help already
14:45:04 <antonela> awesome
14:45:08 <antonela> traumschule: your item now
14:45:25 <antonela> traumschule: first of all, thanks for all your work on website tickets!
14:46:10 <traumschule> It‘s great to be here, feels like i‘m learning all the time and it‘s fun.
14:46:24 <antonela> you know, we are not a huge team and we are really focusing efforts to have the new website done
14:46:39 <asn> +1 thx to traumschule
14:46:39 <antonela> that said, please be patience about our pr reviews on the old website
14:47:05 <antonela> the current website have a lot of problems and we are making our best to catch most of them with the new version
14:47:10 <traumschule> i try to :)
14:47:41 <antonela> i just wanted to be honest and transparent with it
14:47:57 <antonela> and as i told you last time, i hope you are still around for the next version too, we will need you! :)
14:48:53 <antonela> cool! wow we made this meeting a Meeting :D
14:48:54 <traumschule> For the old website i concentrated on content and functionality (css accordion). Do you think this is still useful?
14:49:34 <traumschule> Like can it be integrated in the new design
14:50:00 <traumschule> My current goal is to get the issues for the old website out of the way.
14:50:09 <antonela> traumschule: the new design is getting updates here https://marvelapp.com/project/2397265/ if you want to take a look
14:50:29 <antonela> traumschule: i know and we really appreciate it!
14:51:04 <antonela> traumschule: i
14:51:08 <traumschule> marvel is tricky
14:51:26 <antonela> i know, but is the only platform that allows anonymous comments
14:51:55 <antonela> and it is a must for our workflow
14:52:00 <traumschule> i tried to register before and got a json stream back
14:52:07 <antonela> :/
14:52:25 <traumschule> now i shall pick a plan
14:52:48 <traumschule> can i do this later?
14:53:01 <antonela> i dont think you need a plan to see the mocks
14:53:07 <traumschule> :)
14:53:13 <antonela> try with this https://marvelapp.com/4471ig9
14:53:49 <traumschule> i guess the issue is that i block js per default and enable per domain as required
14:54:08 <traumschule> so it usually takes some time to find the right setting
14:54:26 <traumschule> i saw this one before!
14:54:27 <antonela> yep
14:54:40 <antonela> ok -- anything else? am i missing anything?
14:55:09 <traumschule> most the mockups you gave me some weeks ago i downloaded already. do you want to talk about them now?
14:55:09 <antonela> i'll update the ux list about the new pad and to invite people to join us :)
14:55:19 <antonela> if you have any suggestion about it, please let me know!
14:55:32 <antonela> traumschule: about what?
14:56:30 <traumschule> so i see https://marvelapp.com/4471ig9/screen/38980475 now, can this be filled with content already?
14:57:12 <antonela> with sponsors content yes
14:57:33 <antonela> we are two minutes left and i need to run to another meeting
14:57:36 <antonela> everybody good?
14:57:45 <traumschule> this is stuff i like to do
14:58:15 <antonela> traumschule: awesome, but the markup part or the mockups iteration?
14:58:28 <antonela> traumschule: can we talk about it in #tor-project?
14:58:32 <emmapeel> i wanted to talk about the mallar->lektor thing but maybe it is better after the meeting
14:58:48 <antonela> oka, we need to discuss a lot of things! you see!
14:58:56 <traumschule> i'm fine either way.
14:59:15 <antonela> emma can you add it for next week agenda?
14:59:23 <emmapeel> sure
14:59:37 <emmapeel> also, next week i will have more information
14:59:41 <emmapeel> :D
15:00:29 <antonela> awesome, thanks people!
15:00:35 <antonela> #endmeeting