18:00:14 <GeKo> #startmeeting tor browser 10/15
18:00:14 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Oct 15 18:00:14 2018 UTC.  The chair is GeKo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:00:14 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:00:24 <GeKo> hi all!
18:00:24 <sysrqb> .
18:00:37 <GeKo> i see a bunch of folks added stuff to the pad
18:00:44 <pili> hi!
18:00:47 <igt0> :)
18:00:52 <GeKo> in case you have not yet please add your items at: https://storm.torproject.org/shared/tHoN4Ii7rLSjPE0OP4gydX4cMGadsXmRQNc-6lwru0N
18:01:03 <boklm> hi!
18:01:04 <GeKo> and, as usual, mark those you want to talk about in bold
18:01:40 <sisbell> hi
18:02:34 <pospeselr> hi hi
18:02:43 <mcs> hi. Kathy (brade) is out of the office for an appointment but I am here
18:03:56 <antonela> o/
18:05:18 <arthuredelstein> hi everyone! :)
18:05:52 <GeKo> okay, let's get started
18:06:31 <GeKo> i have release prep as an item for the group
18:06:46 <GeKo> i guess we can talk about pili's here while we are at it
18:06:55 <GeKo> so, we need to build releases this week again
18:07:04 <GeKo> the release date is planned for next tuesday
18:07:16 <GeKo> if we are lucky we can start with building the stable release on wed
18:07:44 <GeKo> there are some `tbb-backport` patches i might pick for that one
18:08:31 <GeKo> arthuredelstein: the banner needs to get into that one as well?
18:08:36 <GeKo> i guess so
18:08:42 <pili> GeKo: I believe so
18:08:45 <sysrqb> alpha release, too?
18:08:48 <GeKo> yes
18:08:51 <sysrqb> kk
18:09:01 <arthuredelstein> GeKo: yes, I will try to get it for you by Tuesday
18:09:09 <GeKo> arthuredelstein: so i need to have a patch by tomorrow for review and testing
18:09:13 <GeKo> or latest wed
18:09:19 <arthuredelstein> right
18:09:26 <arthuredelstein> Let's say "I will", not "I will try" :)
18:09:36 <GeKo> :)
18:09:58 <GeKo> i hope i get some more patches for the mobile release reviewed and tested there is some backlog
18:10:12 <GeKo> sysrqb: it might be worth if you could grab one or the other
18:10:25 <GeKo> in case you need some distraction :)
18:11:04 <GeKo> that's it from my side for the current releases
18:11:18 <sysrqb> GeKo: ack
18:11:26 <GeKo> then there is a bi-weekly meeting scheduled for regular release related meetings
18:11:34 <GeKo> on wed 1800 UTC
18:11:47 <GeKo> are we cool with that?
18:12:10 <GeKo> sisbell: could you please add your items to the pad?
18:12:22 <sisbell> yes. I'm adding that now
18:12:26 <GeKo> pili: want to say more about those meetings?
18:12:30 <GeKo> thanks
18:12:55 <pili> sure, we want to have a regular-ish meeting for TB stakeholders
18:13:14 <pili> both so that if we need help from other stakeholders we can invite them to the meeting to discuss any dependencies
18:13:50 <pili> and so that stakeholders can also ensure we're taking into account any future needs
18:14:15 <pili> I can see it might be helpful for the Tails people as well to join every so often, I've seen a few tickets from them on some dependencies they have on us
18:14:40 <pili> that's pretty much it, I don't think the whole team needs to attend necessarily but it would be good if we can have some representatives every time
18:14:44 <GeKo> yeah, i believe they read tor-project
18:14:51 <GeKo> okay
18:14:53 <pili> any questions on it? :)
18:15:03 <pospeselr> that sounds pretty reasonable :)
18:15:05 <GeKo> i guess we'll start this week and then see how we get used to it
18:15:10 <pili> yup
18:15:27 <pili> it's going to be every other week, so hopefully not too much overhead
18:15:39 <arthuredelstein> how will the agenda work?
18:15:53 <arthuredelstein> should we prepare something for it on the tbb team side?
18:16:05 <pili> good question, I just thought about whether we should have a pad or just wait for people to come with questions
18:16:30 <GeKo> i think there is not much to prepare for right now
18:16:30 <pili> I think if we need things from others we should invite them to the meeting, for those instances we can control the agenda
18:16:52 <arthuredelstein> ok! sounds good
18:17:10 <pili> arthuredelstein: no need for you guys to prepare anything, you can just let me know if there's anyone you'd like me to invite and I'll take care of the agenda
18:17:38 <pili> but let me work out some more of the details a bit better before wednesday ;)
18:17:49 <GeKo> pili: want to go on with your other items?
18:17:52 <arthuredelstein> cool! :)
18:17:54 <pili> sure
18:18:11 <pili> so, there's been talk about resurrecting gettor, and which team it should go under
18:18:19 <pili> I believe it used to be under Applications before?
18:18:45 <pili> somehow it got sent over to the network team, but I just wanted to discuss whether it should fall under Applications again
18:18:53 <mcs> What is the current status of gettor?
18:18:58 <antonela> dead
18:19:01 <pili> yup :/
18:19:07 <GeKo> pili: applications is fine
18:19:31 <pili> I don't think it necessarily means that someone from this team will need to take it on, as both hiro and ilv have mentioned they might be able to work on it in the near future
18:20:01 <pili> there'll be a meeting to discuss, this wednesday (again)
18:20:14 <pili> time is not decided yet as ilv can't make it at the previously agreed time
18:20:27 <pili> anyway, it's FYI if anyone wants to attend
18:20:36 <pospeselr> iirc there was some talk in mexico about making sure gettor works properly with the latest tor-browser as part of our release process?
18:20:53 <pili> pospeselr: yup, good point, there's probably some work for us there
18:20:55 <GeKo> yes, that's a piece we should have in mind
18:21:10 <GeKo> but first gettor needs to get going again
18:21:28 <sysrqb> i think gettor probably closer to the anti-censorship team, along with bridgedb
18:21:45 <sysrqb> but as that team doesn't exist yet, aplication team is probably clse enough
18:21:50 <pili> sysrqb: true :D
18:22:03 <sysrqb> :)
18:22:04 <pili> hopefully we'll get someone there soon enough
18:22:10 <sysrqb> yeah
18:23:03 <pili> ok, so next item?
18:23:11 <GeKo> sounds good
18:23:23 <igt0> Should we create tickets and use the social media to find new contributors?  (I think the codebase is straightforward for newcomers, I heard few people in mexico talking about giving a look in the code to try to contribute)
18:23:59 <sysrqb> we'll still need someone who owns/maintains it
18:24:01 <GeKo> i think there are tickets to work on
18:24:01 <pili> igt0: that's a very good point, there's some discussion in the community team about how we can get volunteers to start helping in general
18:24:10 <GeKo> what sysrqb said
18:24:15 <sysrqb> if hiro or ilv can take tha responsibility, then they can accept volunteer contribs
18:24:19 <GeKo> i think that gettting fixed is step 0
18:24:21 <pili> +1
18:25:11 <sysrqb> but yea, if we can get new volunteers excited about this, that it'll become a better project
18:25:46 <pili> ok, next: just a quick mention about the Sponsor19 reports, I see people have been filling in the pads, thank you arthuredelstein and sysrqb !! let me know if you're not getting enough help on that or if there's something I can do to help bring those together.
18:26:24 <GeKo> i had this as a discussion item. i am wondering how we can be more efficient here
18:26:38 <pili> I don't want to suggest another meeting :P
18:26:48 <antonela> igt0 s8 report says that #26690 is done - could i have an .apk to see it?
18:27:12 <GeKo> i don't like burning a bunch of folks for that task especially as we don't know how often and how much to report
18:27:18 <GeKo> antonela: it's under review
18:27:27 <antonela> oka
18:27:44 <GeKo> so what could be a good workflow for those items
18:27:48 <GeKo> (sponsor19)
18:27:57 <GeKo> especially as the ux team is reporting here as well
18:28:00 <pili> GeKo: unfortunately I don't think it's currently clear what the frequency for the reports is going to be
18:28:07 <GeKo> yes, i know
18:28:09 <antonela> arthur made most of our team work, not sure if sysrqb added something there
18:28:25 <GeKo> antonela: what do you mean with "our team work"
18:28:27 <GeKo> ux-team?
18:28:30 <sysrqb> no, i haven't yet
18:28:42 <antonela> no, arthuredelstein, sysrqb and me were in the same task
18:28:59 <GeKo> ah, okay, that meaning of "team"
18:29:07 <antonela> ye, homework team? ha
18:29:08 <sysrqb> many teams :)
18:29:13 <GeKo> indeed
18:29:31 <antonela> i'm curious about what other teams are reporting, so i finally asked for a ldap account
18:29:46 <GeKo> arthuredelstein: what's your take here on this?
18:30:37 <arthuredelstein> GeKo: I agree it would be helpful to have some clarification on what is required
18:30:43 <arthuredelstein> especially if it's a regular thing
18:31:13 <pili> I do think the first one will unfortunately be the most painful and then it should just be a case of reporting on what we have been doing to advance the tasks listed
18:31:23 <pili> I can probably help out more with these once I get up to speed
18:32:06 <pili> GeKo: arthuredelstein do you need clarification on what will be required in general, or just for this first report?
18:32:17 <GeKo> pili: yes, please
18:32:19 <pili> I can go back and try to get some more clarity on this
18:32:26 <arthuredelstein> One thing I'm wondering about is space constraints.
18:32:32 <arthuredelstein> Do we have too much text, or do we need more?
18:32:35 <GeKo> my main concern right now is that we waste time on all of this by putting 2-3 people on this
18:32:52 <GeKo> because there is no efficient coordination on who is doing what
18:32:58 <arthuredelstein> It probably makes sense to have one primary person for each task, eys
18:33:00 <arthuredelstein> yes
18:33:05 <GeKo> yep
18:33:06 <pili> GeKo: agreed, not everyone suggested to collaborate needs to be involved... maybe it would be best to have a quick brainstorming session with the people suggested involved and then I can try to put it all together
18:33:41 <GeKo> that sounds like a good idea to me
18:33:49 <sysrqb> after this meeting?
18:34:00 <pili> arthuredelstein: re: space, I can also try to find out
18:34:00 <arthuredelstein> pili: I wonder if there are formal instructions from the funder we could read -- just to make it easier for us to meet whatever requirments there are.
18:34:17 * pili takes note of all these action items :)
18:34:36 <pili> sysrqb: sure, we can try to do the brainstorming after this if everyone else is fine with it
18:36:02 <GeKo> okay, seems like we move in a good direction
18:36:10 <sysrqb> and i tihnk roger was intentionally vague when he described this report
18:36:19 <sysrqb> but we can discuss it after
18:36:21 <GeKo> i agree
18:36:22 <pili> ok, so final item from me and then someone else can take the floor: Sponsor 8 Q3 report... I sent an email about this already, but we need some ticket numbers to pull together into a report, please :)
18:36:29 <GeKo> but that does not make the task easier
18:36:37 <sysrqb> no :)
18:36:38 <GeKo> especially given all the other things to do
18:37:02 <GeKo> pili: i think i put quite a lot of stuff on the pad
18:37:13 <sysrqb> pili: it's on my list for today/tomorrow
18:37:29 <GeKo> sysrqb: igt0: it would be nice if you could look over what i have and correct/add things
18:37:35 <pili> GeKo: great, I hadn't seen it when I checked earlier, it was probably too early!
18:37:41 <GeKo> what i did was
18:37:59 <GeKo> 1) went over all the closed tickets for july, august, september with tbb-mobile as keyword
18:38:12 <GeKo> 2) went over the needs_review ones for this month
18:38:35 <GeKo> 3) went over the `tbb-mobile` + `TorBrowserTeam201810` ones for this month
18:38:48 <GeKo> and followed respective mozilla bugs where possible
18:40:17 <GeKo> alright, anything else for the status updates? concerns/comments?
18:40:54 <traumschule> not sure if this fits right now. #25475 (TB Credits): wrote a simple bash script to collect committers of several repos and need input how to go from there (the created output has ~6k lines with many duplicates), also wrt to non-code contributions.
18:41:00 <GeKo> sisbell: could you put investigating the differences in the .apks after we landed the toolchain in tor-browser-build?
18:41:36 <GeKo> that has the highest prio. we should get nightly builds going asap to have some before we need the new build process for the second major alpha release
18:41:54 <GeKo> /some/some time for testing/
18:41:54 <sisbell> geko: sure, I'm boxing my time at 20% but I can push it off
18:42:09 <sysrqb> oh, yes please
18:42:13 <GeKo> yes, please
18:42:31 <GeKo> we should try to get the review forth-and-back done this week
18:42:55 <sisbell> GeKo: have have some concerns about the hardening wrappers in lastest debian
18:43:22 <sisbell> So that MAY be big issue, will need some looking into
18:43:33 <GeKo> okay, but just postpone it for now
18:43:39 <GeKo> and we get what we have landed
18:43:47 <GeKo> iterating from there is sooo much easier later on
18:44:03 <GeKo> and i am fine if we have the hardening stuff for the next major alpha not ready
18:44:14 <sisbell> ok cool
18:44:16 <GeKo> but we need the tor-browser-build process for it as this is a blocker
18:45:16 <GeKo> okay, discussion time
18:45:45 <GeKo> i have one item: the roadmap: https://pad.riseup.net/p/tbb-roadmap-2018-19
18:46:19 <GeKo> we got input fromt the tails people and i tried to get all stuff into it
18:46:26 <GeKo> that changed/got added over the week
18:46:31 <GeKo> is there stuff missing?
18:46:40 <GeKo> do we think it looks good as it is?
18:46:58 <GeKo> pili: what about the items we need the network team for?
18:47:14 <GeKo> did you talk to gaba about those?
18:47:35 <GeKo> antonela: do you (still) like the stuff on that roadmap?
18:47:47 <antonela> nickm asked me about what is needed from the network team, but I don't know that answer. Pretty much otf proposal
18:47:58 <pili> GeKo: not yet, I have a meeting with her tomorrow, I will discuss them then
18:48:04 <GeKo> okay
18:48:08 <GeKo> antonela: ack
18:48:10 <antonela> yes, we should do *all* the things
18:48:18 <GeKo> moar
18:48:20 <antonela> i hope i can get back to security settings later this week
18:48:27 <pili> we can also start by inviting a representative, maybe nickm to the TB release meeting :)
18:48:52 <GeKo> antonela: that would be awesome
18:48:57 <antonela> i know
18:49:00 <GeKo> as this is the next major item and tricky
18:49:05 <antonela> si
18:49:34 <antonela> i have some things in mind; probably we will get some consensus
18:49:38 <GeKo> pili: i don't think that's the topic for the release meeting (roadmapping stuff that is)
18:49:48 <GeKo> s/the/a/
18:50:31 <pili> sure, I'll just discuss with gaba in any case
18:51:05 <GeKo> okay, i guess we'll go with what we have on the roadmap for now and adjust while we are moving forward
18:51:09 <GeKo> yay!
18:51:28 <pili> luckily there's no network dependencies until December... ;)
18:51:28 <antonela> tor browser icon survey is happening, will have it for this week too \o/
18:51:32 <GeKo> if there are things we need to consider that come to mind, please speak up everyone
18:51:40 <GeKo> good stuff
18:51:49 <pospeselr> antonela: ooh do you have a link handy?
18:52:05 <antonela> pospeselr: no early bird, but will share soon
18:52:39 <pospeselr> :D :D :D
18:52:48 <GeKo> anything else as possible discussion items for today?
18:53:43 <emmapeel> please get me the tba localization file!
18:53:46 * emmapeel ducks
18:54:00 <sysrqb> :)
18:54:10 <GeKo> emmapeel: hi!
18:54:17 <sysrqb> yes, that's on our roadmap for very soon
18:54:18 <GeKo> well, uhh
18:54:21 <emmapeel> hello. sorry it is not a meeting topic, just to remind you
18:54:24 <GeKo> exactly :)
18:54:43 <GeKo> alright, thanks all *baf*
18:54:46 <GeKo> #endmeeting