17:59:15 <nickm> #startmeeting weekly network team meeting, 10 Dec 2018
17:59:15 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Dec 10 17:59:15 2018 UTC.  The chair is nickm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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17:59:33 <nickm> This might  be the 2nd-to-last meeting of the year
17:59:56 <nickm> unless we reeeeeealy have to meet on the 24th or the 31st, which maybe would not be fun
18:00:08 <gaba> hello hello!
18:00:17 <dgoulet> \o/
18:00:18 <ahf> hello
18:00:19 <nickm> sorry for running off early last week; I hope folks are well
18:00:52 <ahf> i think my family would be sad if we had meeting on the 24th :-P
18:01:04 <gaba> np, hope the moz all hands was good!
18:01:21 <nickm> Pretty good, yeah.  We had some good discussions and presentations.
18:01:29 <nickm> so... let's start with the roadmap
18:01:35 <gaba> yep
18:01:50 <nickm> looking at the "0.4.0 merge window opens" section, I see only 5 must-do sponsor8 items.
18:01:59 <nickm> and they're all under "doing"
18:02:00 <nickm> so that's good!
18:02:26 <nickm> I see a bunch of stuff listed on "TODO" that we are not likely to get done for Jan 15.  That's not great but not unexpectedc
18:03:04 <nickm> I expect to wrap up my #28019 work rsn with the merge of #28624, and then I'll be done with my stuff
18:03:10 <nickm> and my primary goal will be h
18:03:19 <nickm> and my primary goal will become helping anybody who want sh
18:03:21 <nickm> wants help
18:03:30 <gaba> How are people doing with their DOING issues?
18:03:40 * nickm .oO(my secondary goal will be not hitting enter every time I try to type "h")
18:03:46 <ahf> i could use some help with a circular dependency issue and integration (making the api ready i guess?) for the dormant code
18:03:56 <asn> things are happening in wtf-pad land. been fighting with fixups and CI stuff. done good progress on both. still have a bunch of fixups to do, and 32-bit appveyor is broken. will fix these this week.
18:04:00 <ahf> and thanks a lot for the help already with the k/v parser work, nickm
18:04:09 <asn> mikeperry has tkaen over the unittest side of #28142. not sure how that's going.
18:04:45 <mikeperry> asn: I just fixed a clang-specific test bug friday. that took a while
18:04:55 <asn> nice
18:04:58 <asn> yeah i saw that
18:05:01 <mikeperry> asn: going to get to write more tests this week
18:05:15 <dgoulet> ahf: the .may_include issue or sth else?
18:05:28 <ahf> yeah, the may_include issue
18:05:41 <dgoulet> ahf: I can try to do something there
18:05:53 <ahf> that would be helpful
18:05:57 <ahf> would be very nice, dgoulet
18:06:03 <nickm> ahf: that's for the PT thing?  I can try
18:06:19 <ahf> nickm: i think dgoulet is up for it too ^^
18:06:29 <nickm> ok.  Let me know if you want to pull me in
18:06:32 <gaba> thanks dgoulet ahf!
18:06:38 <nickm> I had a really good time helping with #28755 last week, and I'd love to do more tickets for people
18:07:05 <ahf> that is _very_ useful and also thanks for the spec feedback there, i had a talk with dcf about it afterwards about finding some common ground there
18:07:08 <gaba> ahf: that is in the #25502, right?
18:07:21 <ahf> and i think our conclusion is that the PT world *will* find the STATUS API useful, they would like to see some examples of it
18:07:25 <ahf> gaba: yep, spot on
18:07:36 <dgoulet> ahf: speaking of, I have on my list to spec out that ^
18:07:43 <dgoulet> ahf: so if you have a branch or anything, I can be useful there
18:07:53 <dgoulet> ahf: (or even just an idea, I can put words into a .txt :)
18:08:18 <ahf> dgoulet: yep, i spend some of friday looking at meek + snowflake code (non-connect based PT's after the conversation with david thursday evening) and gonna try to write down some notes about my findings
18:08:25 <ahf> so we can flesh out some initial K/V pairs that are useful
18:10:01 <nickm> we ready to look at reviews?  It seems that we don't have a lot
18:10:14 <nickm> in general, s8 should still get priority over review.
18:10:23 <nickm> though of course reviewing s8 stuff counts as s8
18:10:32 <nickm> dgoulet: thanks for taking on #28624
18:10:42 <nickm> everybody: I can review more stuff if you want to offload
18:11:16 <asn> mikeperry: btw perhaps we can close #26633 now? it's on the roadmap and perhaps it doesn't need to be open anyumore?
18:11:32 <mikeperry> yeah I think so. I only left it open for you to have a chance to agree
18:11:36 <asn> ack
18:12:00 <asn> closish
18:12:07 <ahf> \o/
18:12:21 <mikeperry> there was another one too..
18:12:39 <asn> only #28142 and #28632 remaining as  MUST for V
18:12:41 <mikeperry> #28633
18:13:09 <asn> mikeperry: right
18:13:13 <asn> mikeperry: i want to do a review on that
18:13:18 <gaba> about things missing for s8 I put tickets into a temporary pad to understand what is missing and wha tpeople are working on https://pad.riseup.net/p/qPH3xF4JaHOB It is mostly for me to deal with trac
18:13:18 <asn> based on ur comments on the other ticket
18:13:21 <asn> and i will close irght after
18:14:23 <asn> done with roadmap discussion for V
18:14:54 <dgoulet> asn, mikeperry: [side note, a presentation about WTF-PAD to the net team in Brussels would be _amazing_ (like the one Nick did about Guards in Wilmington :)]
18:15:04 <asn> yes def
18:15:45 <gaba> +1
18:16:11 <mikeperry> yeah. we should also produce some docs on how to make padding machines
18:16:22 <nickm> +1
18:16:29 <mikeperry> those might be specs, or might just be researcher docs
18:16:53 <nickm> on rotations: I see ahf on triage and catalyst on CI/Coverity.
18:17:02 <ahf> ack
18:17:17 <nickm> you're both pretty busy with sponsor8 stuff; would either of you like to switch with me?  As noted I'm underscheduled this week
18:17:38 <dgoulet> I can take on triage tbh
18:18:01 <asn> mikeperry: agreed
18:18:10 <ahf> dgoulet: that would be helpful!
18:18:11 * catalyst can hand off CI+Coverity
18:18:12 <dgoulet> (as I'm CI next week)
18:18:37 <ahf> we can split it even, i can do mornings here and you can do afternoon at your place?
18:18:50 <mikeperry> nickm: I am still feeling a bit distracted by lots of wtf-pad loose ends; if you want to take whatever subset of my reviews that would be helpful,
18:18:58 <dgoulet> ahf: no worries, I'll take the full task :P
18:19:04 <gaba> catalyst's update on s8-errors and roadmap is in their status in the pad
18:19:09 <ahf> cool!
18:19:32 <nickm> ok, I'-ll take CI/coverity this week
18:19:34 <nickm> catalyst: ^
18:19:39 <catalyst> nickm: thanks!
18:19:49 <nickm> ok, I'll eat some of your reviews.  are any of them s8 items?
18:20:47 * catalyst can do a quick look at the revised #28007 but someone who's set up do the actual scan-build run should smoke test the changed script
18:21:43 <mikeperry> nickm: none are sponsor8 I think. just ipv6 and doc fixes
18:21:58 <asn> some of them are swbws from last week
18:22:08 <asn> fwiw
18:22:15 <nickm> catalyst: okay, that's me who has done the scan-build before.  If you put it in merge_ready i'll try out the changes
18:22:22 <catalyst> nickm: thanks!
18:24:22 <nickm> so... on to discussion?
18:25:08 <gaba> Please people remember to read the announcements. I added a few things there. One of them is the pad for doing the report on Q4 for sponsor 8.
18:25:12 <nickm> ahf: what do we need to figure out w snowflake today?  Is that still on the list?
18:25:20 <gaba> oops, I will correct the link
18:25:38 <ahf> i think so, i ended up dropping things a bit on the floor to get moving after your review on #28179, but gaba had a very good list of priorities
18:25:43 <nickm> gaba: the dates are Sep 1 through now?
18:25:44 <ahf> let me just put them into the doc
18:26:07 <nickm> ahf: anything we need to figure out before end-of-year with that?
18:26:31 <ahf> yes, we should get started with the testing infrastructure that was discussed at the meeting, if possible
18:26:36 <gaba> yes nickm
18:27:15 <nickm> do we need people on that?
18:27:38 <ahf> and i think we also need to get more people to try it out by now. right now dcf and i are talking a bit about #28726 which is hindering you to run your own snowflake network i think
18:27:48 <ahf> juga had tried it out too and reported the same experience as i have seen
18:28:08 <ahf> i think teor expressed interest in looking at integrating PT/snowflake tests with chutney
18:28:15 <ahf> if they have time
18:28:38 <nickm> hm, ok
18:28:40 <gaba> I understood they will not have time for it in December.
18:28:45 <ahf> ok
18:28:51 <ahf> then maybe it's not worth doing this month
18:29:44 <ahf> until i'm done with the s8 tasks i'm also not gonna be able to make much progress on these things, but being able to run a isolated snowflake test network is still my current goal
18:30:57 <gaba> nickm: the spec is something you can start this month?
18:31:21 <nickm> hrm.  maybe
18:31:23 <gaba> and get ahf on board when he is done with s8?
18:31:28 <nickm> I can try, but I might need help from ahf
18:31:33 <nickm> we'll see!
18:31:38 <gaba> ok
18:31:43 <ahf> that could work
18:32:11 <nickm> ahf: if you could send me a couple of links for where you think I should start investigating to write a spec, that would be great
18:32:40 <ahf> i can do that. you want an email? just to be clear: this is the facilitator?
18:32:44 <nickm> Next discussion item is ... first 2019 meeting on 8 Jan at the later time?
18:32:49 <nickm> ahf: I don't know what I'm supposed to spec
18:32:52 <nickm> email is good
18:32:58 <ahf> ok, will write an email
18:33:01 <nickm> (the time is okay with me)
18:33:18 <gaba> ok with me
18:33:30 <nickm> hearing no objections, I say it's scheduled.
18:33:44 <asn> ack
18:33:56 <nickm> we talked about reviews already and sponsor8 already
18:34:33 <nickm> for the RC blockers -- I'm going to go over them again, but I would love it if anybody else could take a quick glance over the 035 tickets to see if any of them, if unfixed, would mean that we shouldn't call the next release a release candidte
18:34:57 <nickm> let me know if you'd rather do that together; otherwise just tag with 035-rc-blocker or 035-rc-blocker?
18:35:10 <gaba> k
18:35:16 <nickm> For the release schedule: we're obviously not going to get 035 final out this month, so I'll try to revise.
18:35:35 <nickm> Has everybody looked  at Teor's plans for the proposed-ticket process on the pad https://pad.riseup.net/p/network-team-triage-2018 ?
18:36:46 <asn> sounds plausible and worth trying
18:36:58 <gaba> https://pad.riseup.net/p/network-team-triage-2018
18:37:03 <gaba> ok
18:37:13 <nickm> Let's plan to start this in January?
18:37:28 <dgoulet> sounds good
18:37:38 <catalyst> seems reasonable. what does the tricket triage person do for milestone assignment though?
18:37:53 <nickm> catalyst: I don't know.  Maybe add an open questions section?
18:38:39 <nickm> One thing we'll have to do to make this work is learn not to work on (most?) non-roadmapped tickets that aren't proposed & discussed
18:38:47 <nickm> that might be annoying for us, but we'll have to learn to do it
18:39:06 <nickm> I think right now the reason we don't use our current process so much is that when somebody believes strongly in something, they often just do it
18:39:16 <dgoulet> right ^
18:39:19 <nickm> We can tune this process as we go
18:39:21 <ahf> makes sense
18:39:30 <dgoulet> sometimes it can take some hours to understand an issue and thus fixing it right away is the way to go
18:39:40 <dgoulet> but yeah that is easy to deal with as we go, agree
18:40:26 <gaba> and if you are working on something that is not roadmapped then we should have a way to track that as unplanned work somewhere
18:40:38 <gaba> at least add it to the status in irc
18:42:14 <nickm> right
18:42:36 <nickm> now it's time to hunt boldface stuff!
18:42:45 <nickm> I've already raised my items :)
18:42:55 <nickm> catalyst has questions
18:43:21 <catalyst> feedback on #28731 would probably be better after the meeting
18:44:14 <nickm> not seeing any more boldface, but I do see some "help with" items listed
18:44:35 <nickm> catalyst: wrt bootstrap knowledge, I'd say "yes" but only after we have s8 done
18:45:11 <catalyst> nickm: ok. i should probably write down more of it than i currently have, just to keep better track for ongoing sponsor8 work
18:45:20 <nickm> taking notes is great
18:46:04 <nickm> anybody want to discuss anything else for this week?  Please remember to read the whole pad, especially including announcements and "want help with" sections
18:47:17 <nickm> hearing no new topics, let's say that the meeting is done
18:47:20 <nickm> thanks, everyone!
18:47:23 <asn> thx!
18:47:23 <ahf> thanks
18:47:24 <gaba> thanks!
18:47:27 <gaba> o/
18:48:11 <nickm> peace all!
18:48:13 <nickm> #endmeeting