18:58:41 <GeKo> #startmeeting tor browser 1/7 2019
18:58:41 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Jan  7 18:58:41 2019 UTC.  The chair is GeKo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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18:58:46 <GeKo> hey all!
18:58:52 <boklm> hi!
18:58:53 <GeKo> welcome to our first meeting in 2019
18:59:13 <sisbell> hi
18:59:19 <antonela> o/
18:59:20 <mcs> Happy 2019 to all!
18:59:20 <igt0> !!!
18:59:32 <pospeselr> hello hello
19:00:02 <GeKo> the pad is, as in 2018, on https://storm.torproject.org/shared/tHoN4Ii7rLSjPE0OP4gydX4cMGadsXmRQNc-6lwru0N
19:00:29 <GeKo> please add your items and look over things others have written in case you want to comment/discuss
19:01:05 <pili> hi!
19:05:01 <GeKo> okay, let's get started
19:05:13 <GeKo> i am first it seems
19:05:36 <GeKo> a gentle reminder that the timesheets for december are due today
19:05:54 <GeKo> (for those of you who need to do the timesheet things)
19:06:02 <GeKo> oh, and while we are at it:
19:06:46 <GeKo> another gentle reminder to use the "/me status: fixing all the bugs" at least once a day to keep everyone updated over the week
19:07:47 <GeKo> pili: you are up
19:09:08 <pili> hi everyone, we're looking to submit 2 proposals to DRL and in order to decide which projects we should try to request funding for we would like you to think about the  Browser team's needs and priorities for 2019 to consider them for a proposal
19:09:37 <pili> I have put together the following pad with some background and details: https://storm.torproject.org/shared/DWoSG7f1qUTdhXz1l9i7bL-SYxIe00fB_a16l440s6A
19:10:16 <pili> additionally, there is an nlnet grant that we might want to submit something for, although to me it seems like it would be more relevant for the network or metrics team
19:10:53 <pili> in any case, your ideas about the needs and priorities will help us to match any upcoming calls to projects :)
19:11:37 <GeKo> thanks
19:11:52 <GeKo> i guess we should think about that this week
19:11:56 <pili> also, this does not mean that we will submit the SOI for browser team work, it's just to give us an idea of what we should find funding for, we will gather the needs and priorities for every team, then based on that we'll do some analysis based on budgets :)
19:11:59 <GeKo> and try to come up with something :)
19:12:02 <pili> yes please!
19:12:08 <pili> deadline for the SOI is 2nd Feb
19:12:11 <pili> so the earlier the better
19:12:50 <pili> we have a grants/funding meeting on wednesday so it would be nice to have some ideas for then... if not, the following weds would be the final final deadline
19:13:34 <GeKo> sounds good
19:14:15 <pili> any questions? :)
19:14:57 <GeKo> i don't have any right now
19:16:08 <pili> the other thing I had to mention is the release meeting this week, is there anyone we should make a point of inviting for this one?
19:16:34 <GeKo> hm
19:16:37 <sysrqb> o/ hi - happy new year everyone, sorry i'm late (qubes trouble)
19:16:44 <GeKo> \o
19:17:05 <GeKo> pili: i guess we should remove the donation banner again?
19:17:10 <GeKo> what should we have instead?
19:17:46 <GeKo> i recall sstevenson wanting the news sign up back?
19:17:56 <GeKo> might be worth being clear about that
19:18:06 <pili> newsletter sign up sounds reasonable, but you are right, we should confirm
19:18:23 <pili> I'll send her an email
19:18:28 <GeKo> apart from that nothing coms to mind regarding external invites
19:18:33 <GeKo> *comes
19:19:18 <GeKo> okay, antonela you are up i guess
19:19:27 <antonela> thanks! happy new year team!
19:19:44 <antonela> sysrqb: could we sync at some point this week where we are on tba onboarding? I'm quite lost :)
19:20:20 <sysrqb> antonela: yep!
19:20:49 <sysrqb> (i will be afk a bit, at a conference, but we can find a time)
19:21:00 <sysrqb> (conference later this week)
19:21:01 <antonela> sure, let me know what works better for you
19:21:03 <antonela> re: snowflake - not sure if someone wants to, but i have been working on this UI for a browser snowflake extension, i have been reading about firefox extensions, but if some dev could take a look at it, would be really useful
19:21:28 <antonela> relevant ticket is #23888
19:21:49 <antonela> and probably we should include it in some SOI document because not sure if is funded but seems to be prior
19:22:02 <antonela> done ^__^
19:24:56 <GeKo> who is writing that extension?
19:25:05 <GeKo> (sorry got disconnected)
19:25:47 <GeKo> i.e. is that some (hidden) s19 work for tor browser folks?
19:26:16 <antonela> good question, i'm working with ahf on it but i don't think he is working on the extension precisely
19:26:32 <pili> sounds like s19 to me :)
19:26:48 <pili> however the DRL SOI seems very relevant for this also
19:26:51 <GeKo> yes, i agree
19:27:20 <GeKo> antonela: so what is the current plan with #23888?
19:27:34 <ahf> so, in my (possibly mistaken) view the network extension is a UI on top of the JS that we will be working on for snowflake itself (the JS is already there, we just need to make it production ready)
19:27:54 <GeKo> ahf: ha, i was about to ping  you :)
19:27:59 <antonela> (:
19:28:00 <ahf> where we need to be able to tune various things (via the settings) such as "only use this much BW per day"
19:28:03 <ahf> and so on
19:28:04 <sysrqb> that ticket looks like something someone wanted, but it's not necessarily something that was planned for s19(?)
19:28:37 <GeKo> ahf: who is "we"?
19:28:54 <ahf> we is whoever ends up doing that part of the webextension
19:28:55 <GeKo> (there might be different "we"s)
19:28:58 <antonela> us
19:29:02 <GeKo> great
19:29:25 <ahf> the hard part here is still getting the javascript proxy code to be production ready. from there to the webextension i think is an easier step
19:29:35 <GeKo> ahf: where is that code?
19:29:55 <GeKo> somewhere in our git infra?
19:29:59 <ahf> https://gitweb.torproject.org/pluggable-transports/snowflake.git/tree/proxy
19:30:11 <ahf> is the javascript code (written in coffeescript because ...)
19:31:09 <GeKo> okay.
19:31:42 <ahf> i still don't know if the webextension is in or out of our priorities for s19, i remember there was some confusion about that before christmas, but i think that is something pili/gaba knows
19:31:56 <pili> right :)
19:32:08 <ahf> i hope we can do it, because i think it's a great way to ensure more stable users rather than having lots of user always having a tab open on the right site
19:32:13 <pili> I think it actually wasn't one of the top priorities, but we're not going to complain if it gets done ;)
19:32:27 <pili> ahf:+1
19:32:48 <pili> having said that gaba is more on top of the s19 work
19:32:51 <gaba> yes, we still didn't work priorities for s19. So far we have the stuff in the network team roadmap and we are going to work on building a new roadmap for it during the hackweek.
19:32:55 <gaba> hi :)
19:33:07 <ahf> gaba: cool!
19:33:24 <antonela> well we really believe that we can bring more users enabling snowflake if we make that a web extension, than relies on sysadmins to load it into their sites
19:33:31 <antonela> but is another meeting discussion
19:33:32 <gaba> yes,
19:33:40 <antonela> if someone here is interested in working on that, maybe could join us on our next snowflake meeting
19:33:43 <ahf> antonela: yes! +1 many times
19:33:45 <gaba> we agreed it is important in the last snowflake meeting
19:33:57 * antonela tries to hunt devs
19:34:02 <sysrqb> :)
19:34:04 <gaba> I'm thinking we need to start having regular meetings for s19
19:34:07 <antonela> hehe
19:34:08 <gaba> snowflake included..
19:34:25 <GeKo> so we want to have another extension besides cupcake where it is included?
19:34:30 <ahf> a curious thing about this webextension is that it wont make sense for torbrowser users at all because we use webrtc, which is udp :-P
19:34:31 <GeKo> why is cupcake not enough?
19:34:40 <GeKo> yes
19:34:43 <ahf> GeKo: cupcake is one of the things we are looking at using. i think antonela is in contact with saint already
19:35:00 <GeKo> okay, good.
19:35:11 <antonela> ye, i talked with saint -- im proposing this UI which is less cupcake branded and more 'snowflake' branded
19:35:43 <antonela> i hope it make easier to users to understand what is happening on each state
19:36:13 <pili> gaba:+1 to regular s19 meetings
19:36:21 <antonela> gaba: si, lets do it
19:36:23 <pili> wanted to discuss with you this week (we can talk about it tomorrow)
19:36:59 <gaba> yes pili. let's check tomorrow how/when/who
19:37:23 <GeKo> okay, any other updates? pospeselr?
19:37:30 <pospeselr> yeah sorry snuck one in there
19:37:34 <GeKo> np
19:37:48 <pospeselr> so long story short we've a disk leak on windows thanks to jumplist storage
19:38:22 <tjr> What's it leak? Just that TB was used or actual data?
19:38:36 <pospeselr> but do to windows internals implementation details there's no clean way to remove the backing file without basically iterating through all the files in a particular directory, and looking for Tor strings to identify the offending file
19:38:46 <pospeselr> just that TB was installed at some point
19:39:13 <GeKo> hm
19:39:19 <pospeselr> so not the biggest deal as no history or anything like that is exposed
19:39:46 <pospeselr> so yeah, the actual algo to do the work is easy enough to implement, but seems a bit 'hacky'
19:39:55 <pospeselr> was wondering if had any opinions on that
19:40:00 <pospeselr> if we had any*
19:40:45 <GeKo> i think if we can be sure that we only got those files with that algo that's fine with me
19:41:52 <pospeselr> long term we could remove the code once it can be reasonably assumed that most users have updated
19:41:59 <GeKo> at any rate we should not spend too much time on this issue
19:42:00 <pospeselr> alright, that's all
19:42:01 <GeKo> yeah
19:42:11 <GeKo> (given other priorities)
19:42:23 <GeKo> okay, then some discussion
19:42:30 <GeKo> upcoming releases
19:42:40 <GeKo> we have two planned releases in Q1
19:42:47 <GeKo> the first is on 1/29
19:43:10 <GeKo> and the other is on 3/19
19:43:36 <GeKo> we should use both to stabilize the alphas i think and in particular tba
19:43:52 <GeKo> my current thinking is releasing 8.5 at the end of march then
19:44:32 <GeKo> we could have another alpha between those two scheduled releases for testing/tor updates etc
19:44:35 <GeKo> as needed
19:44:52 <GeKo> but that remains to be seen i guess
19:45:05 <GeKo> does that sound reasonable?
19:45:35 <boklm> yes
19:46:04 <mcs> sounds good to me
19:46:19 <sisbell> works for me
19:46:23 <antonela> when do you expect the next tb8.5a?
19:46:28 <GeKo> 1/29
19:46:44 <antonela> cool, im planning our next usability research, i'd like to use it for it
19:46:49 <antonela> thanks geko
19:47:03 <GeKo> sure, let me know who we can help
19:47:06 <GeKo> *how
19:47:18 <mcs> Is it a problem that the fundraising banner will stay around until 1/29?
19:47:37 <GeKo> not sure
19:47:42 <mcs> Or does it disable itself based on date?
19:47:53 <GeKo> we can ask on wed in the release meeting
19:48:01 <GeKo> let me see
19:49:30 <GeKo> i don't think it disables itself this time as it uses the news sign up mechanism
19:49:38 <GeKo> so, we should ask on wed
19:50:11 <GeKo> the second item i have
19:50:34 <GeKo> we need to move forward with out tor-launcher and torbutton integration
19:50:53 <GeKo> into tor browser
19:51:10 <GeKo> or redoing them as webextensions
19:52:02 <GeKo> so, please think about that this week and/or follow-up on the tbb-dev thread "Torbutton and Tor-Launcher Webextensions"
19:52:19 <antonela> GeKo: i sent an email dated jan 03 related with ux research - no hurries, im sure you have a long backlog
19:52:49 <GeKo> antonela: where did you sent that to?
19:53:30 <antonela> your email? checking
19:53:33 <GeKo> the tor-launcher/torbutton redoing might be too hard to get into 8.5 but we should try to land this shortly thereafter
19:53:54 <GeKo> to have this done and tested before we start preparing 9.0
19:54:12 <GeKo> mcs/brade: i guess you'll lead the tor-launcher efforts
19:54:14 <antonela> GeKo: oops i missed you, sent now :)
19:54:43 <GeKo> igt0: we might be able to do the torbutton things together
19:54:47 <mcs> GeKo: Yes. That will give us something to do in January and maybe beyond ;)
19:54:55 <GeKo> at least that's my current thinking
19:55:10 <GeKo> mcs: if it's just january, fine with me ;)
19:55:13 <igt0> awesome +1
19:55:38 <GeKo> so, please think about it this week, we'll nail the details down next monday
19:56:34 <GeKo> anything else for discussion today?
19:58:34 <GeKo> sysrqb: pospeselr: i'd still be happy to read the mozilla-all-hands report :)
19:58:41 <GeKo> (just sayin')
19:59:00 <GeKo> seems we are done today, thanks everyone! *baf*
19:59:04 <GeKo> #endmeeting