13:59:36 <pili> #startmeeting community-portal 05/23
13:59:36 <MeetBot> Meeting started Thu May 23 13:59:36 2019 UTC.  The chair is pili. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:59:36 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
13:59:44 <pili> hi ggus emmapeel
13:59:56 <emmapeel> jelou!
14:00:02 <pili> who else is around hiro antonela Alon_Braier
14:00:06 <ggus> ola
14:00:10 <pili> isabela and stephw will not make it today
14:00:15 <pili> sstevenson are you around?
14:00:22 <Alon_Braier> Hi everyone
14:00:27 <sstevenson> i am here :-)
14:00:28 <antonela> o/
14:00:31 <pili> flexlibris!? :)
14:00:34 * antonela in another meeting too :/
14:00:43 <pili> multitasking... :)
14:00:58 <pili> (I feel like I'm forgetting someone... :/)
14:02:13 <pili> is clash around? :)
14:02:16 <pili> I think that's everyone
14:02:38 <pili> here's the pad as usual: https://storm.torproject.org/shared/Vdky1wu-DWbg8_VPQR0WhTlmeNKmbpTBQm5rTQPgzXC
14:02:55 <hiro> I am here
14:03:04 <pili> who wants to start with some updates?
14:04:14 <pili> ok, I'll pick on people then ;)
14:04:39 <pili> I'll start with relay operations
14:04:48 <emmapeel> i am just finishing a 2 hour tails frontdesk meeting too... a it braindead
14:04:57 <pili> yikes
14:05:03 <emmapeel> but hey! we did the localization stuff!
14:05:29 <pili> yup!
14:05:54 <pili> emmapeel: did you make that PR in the end? I've not been keeping track of the community portal since then
14:06:14 <emmapeel> not yet, still on the workz. i got the mailing list on it too
14:06:39 <ggus> about relay operations: we should include 'how to setup a bridge' manual that phw reviewed in the last week.
14:07:23 <pili> yay for the mailing list!
14:07:36 <pili> ggus: yup! I knew there was something missing that I was forgetting about :D
14:08:21 <pili> other than that, I reached out to nusenu last week I think to let them know that they can move on with their content was the templates are pretty much finalised
14:08:26 <pili> but I haven't heard anything back yet
14:08:38 <pili> we may at some point need to move forward with it ourselves
14:08:49 <pili> but they have done a lot of content already so it should be easy enough
14:09:04 <pili> any other comments on relay operations section?
14:09:08 <irl> i don't like so much these "specific guides"
14:09:16 <irl> i would prefer a choose your own adventure approach
14:09:18 <irl> https://people.torproject.org/~irl/relays.html
14:09:21 <pili> (we'll do user testing next)
14:09:38 <irl> i feel the specific ones that are less used will end up unmaintained
14:09:57 <pili> irl: hmmm, that's interesting :)
14:10:46 <pili> this is what we have atm: https://lektor-staging.torproject.org/community/staging/relay-operations/
14:10:58 <pili> there's more content behind each section
14:11:33 <irl> that list of technical setup guides is going to get very large
14:11:36 <pili> I was thinking that the bridges section would be linked out from the main page
14:11:39 <ggus> irl: i was thinking to merge this content https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/PluggableTransports/obfs4proxy into the new website
14:12:07 <pili> irl: yeah, maybe we do subpages... or subsubpages
14:12:26 <emmapeel> there are more guides here https://support.torproject.org/#operators
14:12:35 <irl> "How to run an {obfs2,obfs3,obfs4,fte,meek,snowflake,ssh,tls,websocket,relay,exit relay} on {Debian,Fedora,Arch Linux,Alpine..} on a {VPS,Docker,...}
14:12:49 <emmapeel> we should replace them with a link to a properly maintained one if they are not being maintained
14:12:52 <ggus> emmapeel: they aren't guides, they are just 'snippets'.
14:13:07 <emmapeel> well, but they go unmaintained too
14:13:29 <ggus> the whole support.tpo is unmaintained but that's another thing
14:14:05 <irl> the tool i used to make what i linked above is called Twine, and it is used for interactive fiction to have choose your own adventure stories, where decisions you make can take you to any other point in the story graph
14:14:11 <pili> /o\ ;)
14:14:23 <emmapeel> ggus: what i mean is that is better to replace unmaintained content with a link to a maintained content, than upgrading updating it, because we should try to make things easier to maintain. if we have several copies then some go outdated
14:14:26 <ggus> i think we should have relays {non-exit,exit} documentation in the community.tpo
14:14:38 <irl> i think having a hierachy makes it difficult, you might get a little through the relay guide and find you don't have the network bandwidth for a relay, and you want to jump to configuring a bridge instead
14:14:55 <irl> but maybe you've already decided you want to run on debian on a vps, so you shouldn't have to go through all that again
14:14:56 <pili> there is the first section on types of relays though
14:15:27 <pili> irl: I see your point though
14:15:59 <pili> we need something to get started with that we can iterate on though
14:16:11 <pili> because right now we need this live by the end of June
14:16:17 <irl> yeah, and the text that is in the thing i linked is from those starting points
14:16:23 <irl> so it is still useful to produce this text
14:16:28 <pili> and it's been hard enough to get the content created as it is :)
14:16:39 <ggus> emmapeel: but first the guide should exist somewhere that i believe it shouldn't be trac.
14:16:50 <irl> +1 for not trac
14:17:12 <emmapeel> yes, not trac cause it cannot be localized. i also agree
14:17:22 <emmapeel> with my l10n hat
14:17:23 <pili> yup, also I don't think we should have multiple copies
14:18:12 <pili> ok, so to summarise, we have some basic content and layout and we should think about how we iterate on that to make it more intuitive and easier to maintain
14:18:49 <pili> shall we move on to user testing section? antonela any movement on that?
14:18:50 <irl> (this sounds good to me)
14:18:55 <ggus> irl: i like this wizard thing like "choose your onion adventure", but having a whole document explaning relays is really needed. this adventure could be build on top of it.
14:19:46 <antonela> not really :( wanted to work on that this week + ui review of community. Let's hope for tomorrow
14:21:04 <pili> ok, no worries
14:21:19 <pili> let's move on to training section
14:21:26 <pili> ggus: how's that going?
14:21:53 <pili> also I would like to say that it's ok if the content is not perfect
14:22:06 <pili> we will likely end up publishing what there is and then iterate on it
14:22:28 <pili> we need to think about how we do this in a way that it's compatible with localization
14:22:41 <pili> because we don't want to annoy the translators by changing the text constantly...
14:22:48 <emmapeel> yes
14:23:21 <emmapeel> well, by now i have the community portal hooked to the andbox in transifex, so we dont really alow translations. but i need to move it for the translations to start
14:23:43 <emmapeel> we should get rid of all the placeholders before that and only put real stuff there, even if is not all
14:23:46 <emmapeel> but reviewed content
14:24:19 <emmapeel> so, by now feel free to chagne the phrases etc, but once it is translated plesae take that into account
14:24:34 <ggus> pili: we have done so far about tor browser, tor browser for mobiles, onion share; about the tor network (how to setup relays); about onion services; how to be volunteer(almost done)
14:26:01 <pili> is that all of it then? :)
14:26:19 <pili> or are there some more subsections to be written?
14:26:49 <ggus> I need to check the document that Alison was writing about good practices
14:27:29 <ggus> emmapeel: ideas on how to translate the .odp files?
14:28:04 <emmapeel> ggus: please not
14:30:02 <ggus> pili: i'll share all the files with you today. Beside the files that I already shared last week with clash and you.
14:30:02 <pili> great, thanks :)
14:30:02 <emmapeel> ggus: i think you can generate an .odp from the website pages but we dont have the possiblity of adding an odp to a translation platform i think
14:30:02 <ggus> i need to go to another meeting, talk to you soon.
14:30:02 <pili> thanks ggus !
14:30:02 <ggus> emmapeel: yeah, i know. so maybe we should extract the strings?
14:30:03 <pili> flexlibris: are you around? any updates on the outreach section?
14:30:03 <pili> I guess that's how to be a volunteer though
14:30:08 <emmapeel> ggus: yes, and put them in lektor
14:30:21 <emmapeel> then you can make an odp with the translations if you really need one
14:32:17 <pili> ok
14:32:22 <pili> I'm moving on
14:32:35 <pili> localization we spoke about already
14:32:40 <pili> onion services...
14:32:47 <pili> I need to poke asn about this ^
14:33:05 <pili> or start ripping off content from rise up and alec muffett and do it myself :P
14:33:51 <pili> Shall we talk about the illustrations next?
14:33:54 <emmapeel> hehehehe well if it says something bad maybe people will react and make it better
14:34:05 <pili> emmapeel: that's my strategy ;)
14:34:13 <antonela> pili i sent you an email alon sent to me 1h ago about the illos
14:34:19 <Alon_Braier> I got the language\translations illustration ready for review if you want to have a look
14:34:20 <pili> yup! I just saw
14:34:27 <antonela> ahh Alon_Braier is here o/
14:34:30 <emmapeel> oh i wanna look
14:34:31 <pili> I like it, let me share with the rest :)
14:34:52 <Alon_Braier> I got a link
14:34:53 <Alon_Braier> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JLmOP0pjOH_aMZMV8-QWGFX0INV-aCSs/view?usp=sharing
14:35:28 <pili> even better ;)
14:36:42 <emmapeel> aaagh ggogle again
14:37:01 <pili> https://share.riseup.net/#zBjs0YS5oaT80yNPyFwL2g
14:37:04 <pili> there you go ;)
14:37:05 <emmapeel> thanks!
14:37:36 <emmapeel> is me!!!!
14:37:36 <pili> any feedback for Alon_Braier ?
14:37:43 <emmapeel> i love it
14:38:02 <sstevenson> +1!
14:38:25 <emmapeel> is a lot about translation... not sure how to show 'localization' tho..
14:38:33 <emmapeel> like something about local but anyway i have no idea
14:40:43 <pili> btw, you can see the progression of the illustrations here: https://dip.torproject.org/web/community/issues/30
14:40:43 <pili> at least for localization
14:40:43 <pili> if people are interested in the iterations :)
14:41:16 <pili> any changes anyone would make?
14:41:17 <hiro> lovely that we can use dip for this
14:41:24 <hiro> I love the third iteration
14:42:03 <clash> ggus: that reminds me, I'm nearly done with both the presentations, just need to update with the new TBA designs
14:43:16 <pili> thanks clash !
14:43:48 <pili> ok, I think we're happy with that, thanks Alon_Braier :) I'll also send to the list so those who are not here can comment on it if necessary
14:43:54 <pili> but I think we can move ahead with this one
14:43:58 <emmapeel> yep
14:44:19 <Alon_Braier> Great! thanks everyone
14:44:54 <pili> there's 2 more illustrations to do?
14:44:59 <pili> training?
14:45:04 <pili> or just training?
14:45:07 <Alon_Braier> I think this is the last one
14:45:09 <pili> sorry, I've lost track a bit
14:45:10 <pili> aaah
14:45:19 <pili> I've completely lost track then :P
14:45:48 <pili> I'm just updating gitlab with the rest now
14:46:17 <clash> is there one unified place where all design content is?
14:46:42 <pili> clash: hmm, depends what you mean by all design content, but the answer is no regardless... :)
14:46:47 <pili> there's the styleguide
14:46:56 <pili> and we've recently moved this project to gitlab
14:47:06 <pili> but there's probably content all over the place
14:49:05 <antonela> i'd like to have everything in gitlab, im working for it
14:49:31 <pili> ok, one last thing i had for today was that isabela had the idea to add these illustrations on the community portal landing page
14:49:58 <pili> I started playing around with what this might look like here: https://dip.torproject.org/web/community/merge_requests/3
14:50:21 <pili> but I couldn't quite get it to work, so I would appreciate a review when someone has time
14:50:48 <pili> the illustrations are not the latest ones anyway but it was just to get a feel for how to write the template, etc...
14:51:13 <pili> are people happy with that
14:51:18 <antonela> yes, i talked with isabela about it
14:51:25 <antonela> i can review your pr
14:51:29 <pili> so we will have the illustrations both on the community portal landing page and the specific section pages
14:51:48 <pili> thanks antonela
14:51:49 <emmapeel> yeah nicer
14:51:58 <emmapeel> more illos better
14:52:01 <pili> I haven't added any classes to the images div so it would look horrible even if the images loaded properly :P
14:52:41 <pili> ok
14:52:46 <pili> anything else from anyone?
14:52:52 <pili> on community portal or others?
14:53:04 <pili> otherwise we should wrap things up as there is another meeting in here after :)
14:53:46 <hiro> kill da bot
14:54:05 <emmapeel> on other
14:54:10 <emmapeel> i have a proposal
14:54:26 <pili> go
14:54:38 <clash> pili: I meant as in all org media, in one place, categorized maybe :)
14:54:45 <emmapeel> to add a little button or something at the bottom of the pages with 'submit corrections to this page'that links straight to the repo contents.lr file
14:54:52 <pili> clash: not really :(
14:55:03 <pili> ah, yes, good one
14:55:08 <pili> hiro: what do you think?
14:55:21 <emmapeel> because some people has been trying to find a way to send corrections and it is not very easy to find the repo form the website
14:55:28 <emmapeel> from
14:55:43 <emmapeel> i was thinking on adding a link straight to github's 'edit' link for a page
14:55:52 <pili> +100
14:56:07 <clash> well, it's never too late :P
14:56:19 <pili> or sometimes where the content is if you're not familiar with lektor
14:56:26 <pili> we can probably add it to the template
14:56:27 <hiro> I think we discussed this w isabela a long time ago and she said people should be assigned to content and take care of the content
14:56:42 <pili> hiro: yup, but that can just mean reviewing the PRs
14:56:58 <emmapeel> ie. for https://support.torproject.org/operators/operators-1/ we add a link to https://github.com/torproject/support/edit/master/content/operators/operators-1/contents.lr
14:57:25 <hiro> I think this is a UX issue
14:57:47 <antonela> we could have it yes, but we need to set up a flow to review those prs
14:58:01 <hiro> also it might be easier to say that if someone wants to contribute that's how you can do it with links and tutorials
14:58:08 <hiro> I think it might be nicer than just a link
14:58:15 <emmapeel> i have been dealing with the input from translators and is a lot of work to find the page etc. i rather review PRs
14:58:48 <pili> ok, let's close the meeting and move to #tor-www
14:58:51 <pili> #endmeeting