17:59:22 <phw> #startmeeting anti-censorship team meeting
17:59:22 <MeetBot> Meeting started Thu Dec 19 17:59:22 2019 UTC.  The chair is phw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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17:59:24 <phw> hi everyone!
17:59:27 <dcf1> hi
17:59:44 <phw> here's our meeting pad: https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-censorship-2019-keep
17:59:59 <phw> cohosh is on vacation and hiro won't be here, so i guess it's just the two of us, dcf1!
18:00:25 * dcf1 putting the "one" in "everyone"
18:00:28 <phw> (and hopefully antonela, to coordinate the iff bridgedb session)
18:00:33 <phw> :)
18:00:43 <antonela> hello!
18:00:49 <antonela> yes im here :)
18:00:55 <antonela> hi dcf1 o/
18:01:09 <dcf1> antonela's got a "one" too, great
18:01:38 <antonela> are there multiple dcf's ghost around?
18:01:47 <ggus> hello, i'm here for iff sessions
18:01:53 <phw> hi ggus!
18:02:11 <phw> ok, let me briefly summarise what we need
18:02:22 <gaba> hi!
18:02:43 <phw> as part of sponsor 30, we want to do a user study, to better understand the kind of problems people have when using bridgedb
18:03:04 <gaba> phw: I also added an item on s30 to discuss with antonela
18:03:14 <gaba> O3
18:03:33 <phw> "problem" is a deliberately vague term. maybe some people struggle with the web interface; others with all the terms we're using (obfs4 vs vanilla, etc.); others may struggle with adding bridges to tor browser
18:03:37 <antonela> yes, we have this pad that gaba opened > https://pad.riseup.net/p/iff-bridgedb-usability-2020-keep
18:03:54 <antonela> yes yes, i think we don't need to be super specific with the details on the proposal
18:04:14 <antonela> i also think that a table where people can join us 1 by 1 is better than an entire session, but not sure
18:04:23 <phw> right. ideally, we would sample a bunch of people from iff and ask them to interact with bridgedb, and see how that goes
18:04:32 <phw> antonela: yes, agreed
18:05:15 <antonela> phw: exactly, that'd be ideal -- im very ambitious thinking about a tor browser version but we can do it with paper prototyping too
18:05:30 <antonela> what im thinking is: do we want to test improved flows? new ideas? or the current version?
18:05:48 <antonela> i think the former is quite fun, we already have some kind of ideas about where we fail in the flow
18:05:55 <phw> if i would do it, i would hand them a laptop (or better, have them use their own one), ask them to add a bridge to tor browser, and also to verbalise their thought process
18:05:59 <phw> but you're the expert, antonela
18:06:08 <antonela> we can do that too, yes
18:06:32 <antonela> anyways, we agree that 1.1.1 is better than a session with a lot of people
18:06:45 <antonela> 1. user 1. facilitator 1. observer
18:06:59 <antonela> nah will be there as well, so we can run it together
18:07:28 <gaba> could it be like something where people work in pairs and observe each other? and then write down in sticky notes and get info from there?
18:07:54 <phw> antonela: i was thinking about the current flow. do you have new ideas that you would like to test?
18:07:57 <gaba> or otherwise have several times during IFF where people come up so you two observe them :)
18:08:29 <antonela> phw: yes, i do
18:09:01 <antonela> gaba: we can do in pairs, i did not thought about it
18:09:53 <cjb> Hi folks!  I'm here too.  I'll add a status to the pad.
18:10:14 <gaba> o/
18:10:35 * gaba will make comments in the pad for IFF session
18:10:50 <phw> hi cjb!
18:11:03 <antonela> oki, yes if y'all can comment at the pad will be great -- i will send it tomorrow at the end of the day
18:11:08 <antonela> are you going to be in valencia phw?
18:11:19 <phw> antonela: no :(
18:11:22 <antonela> oh :(
18:11:51 <antonela> no worries, maybe some questions you would like to get answered is a good starting point to plan it -- for the session no worries, i'll write something generic and then we can do what we consider better
18:12:38 <phw> antonela: yes, good idea. i'll add some questions to the pad, and we can iterate on how to best answer them until iff starts
18:12:47 <antonela> perfect, thank you!
18:13:09 <phw> thanks to you too
18:13:19 <gaba> ggus is going to participate in that session too, right?
18:13:30 <antonela> ggus will be around doing ggus magic, yes
18:13:55 <gaba> :)
18:14:25 <gaba> The other item I have for sponsor 30 and UX is Objective 3.
18:14:26 <ggus> gaba: yes, but i was thinking in another idea
18:14:48 <phw> gaba: right, i wasn't entirely sure what we'd like to do as part of activity 1 & 2
18:15:32 <gaba> phw: we need to check with antonela on how we are going to move forward with those
18:15:35 <gaba> A1 - Develop Tor user personas as a tool to understand users’ contexts and mental models.
18:15:38 <gaba> A2 - Define which censorship scenarios we are going to address.
18:17:29 <antonela> for A1 - we have two parts, one of them is: i'm working with babatunde on his research on information controls to extend our user personas to specific censored personas
18:18:04 <gaba> antonela: do you have any trac ticket for that?
18:18:16 <antonela> nope, we are working in nextcloud
18:18:31 <antonela> (the questions, the people's list, etc)
18:19:14 <gaba> ok. Let's create a trac ticket to do the tracking of that if this is what we are including on developing the Tor user personas.
18:19:19 <gaba> for this
18:19:26 <phw> antonela: oh, cool. can the anti-censorship team help with this?
18:19:29 <antonela> it will take some time, tunde is traveling for interviews during january and february; we will consolidate the reporting on march
18:20:00 <antonela> phw: yes, could be ideal -- i'll ask him to put you in the loop when the first reporting are ready
18:21:01 <antonela> i think roya and nat reviewed the questionnaire and made a good comments
18:21:12 <gaba> The idea is to do A1 from January to June next year.
18:22:27 <antonela> yes, a1 and a2 overlaps at some point but i think is a good timeframe
18:22:47 <gaba> antonela: you said that for A1 there are two parts :)
18:22:52 <antonela> i hope to finish s27 in january so i can go full with s30 after that
18:22:57 <gaba> what is the second part?
18:22:58 <gaba> ok
18:23:15 <antonela> mmm, i forgot
18:23:21 <gaba> :)
18:23:22 * antonela will remember
18:23:35 <phw> second part to A1, right? not A2?
18:23:42 <antonela> yes, AHH
18:23:43 <gaba> right
18:23:56 <antonela> if we go with the group during IFF, we can map personas there as well
18:24:07 <antonela> (i'll add it to the proposal, is nice)
18:24:56 <gaba> ok
18:25:09 <phw> do we also have a plan for A2?
18:27:03 * phw interprets it as "given the personas from A1, which scenarios should be address in our tech?"
18:27:12 <gaba> yes
18:27:39 <gaba> Not sure why we planned A2 before A1 but it should be the opposite.
18:28:08 <antonela> yes, they overlap
18:28:10 <phw> let's decide what we should do with our tech, and then come up with personas to justify our decision ;)
18:28:15 <antonela> we can work on it in january i think
18:28:19 <gaba> antonela: #32811 for A1
18:28:20 <antonela> phw: good move yes
18:28:30 <antonela> nice, thank you!
18:29:28 * phw adds #31282 as a parent ticket
18:29:29 <gaba> for A2 then we can meet once there is a report out with personas
18:29:34 <gaba> oh yes, thanks!
18:30:13 <phw> sounds like a plan
18:30:14 <antonela> cool!
18:30:19 <antonela> \o/
18:30:22 <antonela> are we reporting this sponsor monthly? or?
18:30:57 <phw> i think it's quarterly, no?
18:30:58 <gaba> we need to do the report at the end of January
18:31:02 <gaba> it is quarterly, yes
18:31:07 <antonela> oh nice
18:31:10 <antonela> good to know
18:31:15 <gaba> the report is an item on our January meeting :)
18:31:33 <gaba> on our January meeting's agenda*
18:32:24 <phw> ok, anything else related to s30?
18:32:39 <gaba> it seems we are fine with s30
18:32:45 <antonela> im groot
18:32:54 <phw> :)
18:33:02 <phw> next item is summer of code
18:33:38 <gaba> yep, the question is if anybody here wants to mentor a student
18:33:49 <gaba> pili will apply for Tor but we need mentors for that.
18:33:56 <phw> i'm a bit hesitant. i had two students in the past and neither one finished. one dropped out after a few weeks and the other one vanished.
18:34:25 <gaba> but that is mostly on their side
18:34:40 <gaba> not all of them drop out :)
18:35:01 <gaba> we would need to see which kind of projects they could help with
18:35:10 <phw> yes, but it made me extra careful when deciding if it's worth my time
18:35:32 <gaba> I see
18:35:41 <phw> we certainly have plenty of projects that may be a good fit for a student dev
18:35:50 <phw> cohosh may be interested
18:35:57 <gaba> We will be able to decide who we accept
18:36:11 <gaba> ok. Let's review again in January when cohosh is back
18:36:28 <phw> sounds good
18:37:26 <phw> cjb: thanks for your interest in #31011, by the way
18:39:30 <phw> cjb: and yes, #31009 seems basically finished
18:41:59 <phw> looks like we covered all our discussion items and nobody has a 'needs help with' section. anything else?
18:42:02 * phw waits for a minute
18:43:04 <gaba> yes
18:43:09 <gaba> it seems we are fine
18:43:20 <phw> #endmeeting