18:59:36 <GeKo> #startmeeting network health
18:59:36 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Feb 17 18:59:36 2020 UTC.  The chair is GeKo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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18:59:45 <GeKo> alright everyone
18:59:55 <dennis_jackson> hi
19:00:03 <GeKo> let's do some network health meeting this
19:00:05 <GeKo> week
19:00:08 <GeKo> dennis_jackson: o/
19:00:12 <ggus> hello
19:00:19 <GeKo> our meeting pad is at: https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-networkhealth-2020.1-keep
19:00:35 <GeKo> if you have things to add to the status section, now would be a good time :)
19:00:49 <GeKo> the same goes for the discussion section
19:01:03 <gaba> o/
19:01:41 * ahf is here with half an eye but is cooking too
19:02:47 <GeKo> okay, let's get started
19:03:04 <ggus> one sec
19:03:10 <GeKo> k
19:04:28 <ggus> done
19:04:46 <GeKo> ahf: i saw your churn rate experiments, good stuff
19:04:51 <GeKo> keep them going :)
19:04:57 <GeKo> okay
19:05:17 <ahf> there is a next step in it where i hope to visualize things a bit better. will report back when i have something
19:05:20 <ahf> wont be this week though :-/
19:05:38 <GeKo> so, just as a reminder we have a bunch of things already tagged for our roadmap in the coming weeks
19:05:58 <GeKo> if you look for the keyword `network-health-roadmap-2020Q1` it is
19:06:18 <GeKo> it's the  most reliable way to find out about tickets on the radar right now
19:06:33 <gaba> if you tag them with 'network-health-roadmap-2020Q1' then they will up in the network health team wiki page
19:06:33 <GeKo> as we don't have a dedicated network-health component (yet)
19:06:36 <gaba> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/teams/NetworkHealthTeam
19:06:46 <GeKo> yep
19:06:56 <GeKo> thanks for that, gaba
19:08:04 <GeKo> dennis_jackson: i saw your work on #33076, very nice
19:08:17 <ggus> I think this component is more metrics team than community team - https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/33175
19:08:29 <dennis_jackson> Thanks Geko!
19:08:41 <GeKo> so, if you want to think about potentially useful things for a network health perspective (aka #33178) while doing that work
19:08:47 <GeKo> that would be much appreciated
19:09:13 <GeKo> i plan to start in a bit pondering that part, too, but more folks thinking about that can't hurt :)
19:09:31 <GeKo> ggus: yeah
19:09:33 <dennis_jackson> :) indeed. If I come up with something cohesive, I'll be sure to share it
19:09:38 <GeKo> thx
19:11:00 <GeKo> ggus: i changed it, thanks
19:11:45 <GeKo> there is nothing marked bold at the status updated for discussion
19:11:55 <GeKo> so, let's move on to discussion
19:11:58 <GeKo> ggus: you are up
19:12:18 <ggus> ok
19:12:38 <ggus> some weeks ago we discussed in #tor-project the next steps for strengthen relationships with non-profit orgs that run relays
19:12:51 <ggus> i would like to discuss here too
19:13:07 <ggus> i was hoping that arma2 would be available for this discussion
19:13:16 <ggus> but it's holiday in us
19:13:56 <GeKo> well, we could start discussing it here and now
19:14:11 <GeKo> or we could postpone it to next week if you thinkg it's move useful that way
19:14:17 <GeKo> *think
19:14:28 <GeKo> maybe both could be helpful :)
19:14:44 <GeKo> in that we can think over the week about some ideas and finish discussion next week
19:14:46 <ggus> let's start today so, next week i will be offline on monday
19:14:49 <GeKo> but, not sure
19:14:56 <GeKo> aha, okay
19:15:05 <ggus> let me find a ticket
19:16:05 <ggus> https://dip.torproject.org/torproject/web/community/issues/63
19:16:28 <ggus> 6 month ago i started to do this table based on torservers.net
19:17:54 <gaba> there is a discussion now in tor-relays about one single person running 21% of the relays. Are they one of those orgs in your table?
19:17:57 <gaba> https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-relays/2020-February/018154.html
19:18:23 <ggus> gaba: nope, niffty wasn't a torserver partner
19:19:13 <ggus> *21% of exit node capacity and not 21% of the relays.
19:19:22 <ggus> 21% of the relays is more... dramatic
19:20:04 <gaba> oh right
19:20:05 <gaba> yes
19:21:14 <GeKo> ggus: what's the goal with this list compared to "a list of relays operators we know/are in contact with"?
19:21:48 <GeKo> that is what's the goal with the focus on asscociations?
19:21:49 <ggus> GeKo: this list is going to be in community.tpo with a link to donation
19:21:56 <GeKo> *associations
19:22:32 <GeKo> okay, so the idea would be to have a means to strenghten those orgs
19:22:35 <ggus> GeKo: where i can find network health roadmap?
19:22:53 <GeKo> via donations coming from the community portal
19:23:02 <ggus> also that
19:24:11 <GeKo> ggus: https://pad.riseup.net/p/network-health-team-2020Q1-roadmap-temporal
19:24:16 <GeKo> probably
19:24:31 <GeKo> not sure if we have a better write-up besides that one and the tickets
19:24:49 <ggus> gaba: where i can find the roadmap?
19:25:08 <ggus> ok, i found what i needed
19:25:13 <gaba> ok
19:25:20 <gaba> i linked the spreadsheet there i think
19:25:26 <gaba> but everything is in tickets in trac
19:25:35 <gaba> the spreadsheet was for me to organize myself
19:25:47 <ggus> task #1 would be to map all these orgs in community portal (we have a  ticket open for this); task #2 would be to draft a diagnose form to learn how they are  doing, what kind of help they need
19:25:50 <gaba> ahh, the content of the pad was copied to nextcloud only to archive it
19:27:15 <GeKo> ggus: is that still the plan you outlined there?
19:27:31 <GeKo> that is your #1, #2, and #3?
19:27:43 <ggus> yes
19:28:44 <GeKo> okay, sounds good to me
19:29:05 <GeKo> how do you envision this is going to happen?
19:29:18 <GeKo> like who is doing what/or should do what?
19:29:39 <ggus> i can draft the form, people can review it, and i can send the emails to the orgs
19:30:53 <dennis_jackson> if it is appropriate, it might be interesting to gather some background on the relays themselves. I do not know if it would have any security/privacy ramifications though
19:31:14 <dennis_jackson> E.g. "My relay sees less traffic than I think it should?"
19:31:23 <dennis_jackson> (True/False or whatever)
19:31:31 <gaba> It would be great to get some orgs in the south to run relays
19:31:33 <dennis_jackson> "My relay appears to be CPU bound?"
19:31:48 <GeKo> dennis_jackson: good idea
19:33:08 <GeKo> ggus: sounds like a good plan
19:33:43 <GeKo> depending on how much effort we want to do during the first contact we could add questions like the ones dennis_jackson raised
19:33:55 <GeKo> or we could do those on a follow-up if we wanted
19:34:06 <dennis_jackson> Yeah, maybe it makes sense to build the relationship first
19:34:13 <GeKo> yep
19:34:28 <GeKo> and let the folks speak first and pick things up from there
19:34:53 <GeKo> but it could be good to do some research in parallel
19:35:08 <GeKo> as it could help showing that we really care here
19:35:11 <GeKo> (which we do)
19:35:52 <GeKo> ggus: what do you think? does that work for you?
19:36:25 <ggus> GeKo: yes, i can start an initial convo and then we submit the questions.
19:36:51 <GeKo> okay. what timeframe to you have in mind for each of those steps?
19:38:53 <ggus> I'd like to have a form done in march, and the results compiled late in April, to discuss this in IFF Tor Village
19:40:18 <GeKo> sounds good
19:40:57 <GeKo> if you have specific network health things i/we should do that come to your mind while working on this, just ping me
19:41:42 <GeKo> okay, anything else for discussion today?
19:41:58 <GeKo> requests/concerns etc.?
19:42:08 <ggus> GeKo: i'll need help on the technical part of this. like do we want to know how these orgs manage their relays (like with Ansible)? or what resolvers they use?
19:43:15 <GeKo> yeah, i'll think about those (and i think we'd like to know about those two things you mentioned at least)
19:44:42 <ggus> ok :)
19:44:52 <GeKo> okay, i think we are done here for today
19:45:02 <GeKo> thanks everyone and have a nice week!
19:45:07 <GeKo> #endmeeting