19:00:18 <GeKo> #startmeeting network health
19:00:18 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Feb 24 19:00:18 2020 UTC.  The chair is GeKo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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19:00:27 <gaba> o/
19:00:48 <GeKo> hi!
19:00:56 <dgoulet> o/
19:01:08 <dennis_jackson> o/
19:01:31 <GeKo> let's look at the pad
19:01:38 <GeKo> https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-networkhealth-2020.1-keep
19:01:51 <GeKo> if you worked on network health things please update the status
19:02:01 <GeKo> otherwise if there is something we should discuss
19:02:14 <GeKo> mark either your status item bold
19:02:20 <GeKo> or put it in the discussion section
19:02:44 <GeKo> we are missing some folks today
19:02:49 <GeKo> like ggus and phw
19:03:01 <GeKo> which might impact some discussion points but we'll see
19:03:38 <GeKo> okay
19:03:59 <gaba> the "Guidelines on ethical operating a relay" could be moved to next week
19:04:03 <gaba> for when ggus and phw are around
19:04:17 <GeKo> yes, i think that makes the most sense
19:04:27 <GeKo> gaba: do you know whether this got discussed at fosdem, too?
19:04:37 <GeKo> like was there are session or meet-up about that?
19:04:42 <gaba> the idea is that it may be a good idea to draft guidelines for what to expect for relay operators
19:04:44 <GeKo> or where folks brought it up
19:04:53 <gaba> no session but just talks on the hallways about this
19:05:00 <GeKo> okay
19:05:06 <gaba> explaining the first link to discussion in tor-relays mailng list
19:05:22 <gaba> about expanding code of conduct
19:05:40 <gaba> this may also be something that tor relay operators may work on themselves
19:05:53 <GeKo> yes
19:06:16 <GeKo> i guess one discussion point could be how exactly we as an org could and should step in here
19:06:26 <gaba> right
19:06:33 <gaba> i can bring it back when ggus is around
19:06:41 <GeKo> sounds good, thanks
19:07:04 <GeKo> so, we are already at the discussion stage it seems as no items are marked as bold
19:07:39 <GeKo> dgoulet: may i ask you to write the mail to alessandro about their research
19:07:46 <arma> gaba: for historical context, the jap anonymity system got signed contractual agreements from each of its relay operators. i don't think we should do that, but it is a thing to compare to.
19:07:54 <GeKo> i think you said "sure" but they wrote again today
19:08:01 <GeKo> so i thought i re-ping you :)
19:09:09 <GeKo> okay, the other item on the discussion section
19:09:27 <dgoulet> GeKo: yes on my list today
19:09:34 <GeKo> i plan to move forward with #32672 this week and write to more relay operators
19:09:38 <GeKo> dgoulet: thanks
19:09:46 <GeKo> but then folks mentioned the bridges
19:09:53 <GeKo> and i don't know what to do about those
19:10:07 <gaba> phw was communicating with bridge operators, right?
19:10:09 <GeKo> phw is afk so maybe we need to think without him about that
19:10:15 <GeKo> yes
19:10:39 <GeKo> but afaict mostly with those having bridges in tor browser
19:10:49 <GeKo> but i suspect with other ones, too
19:11:14 <arma> some bridges have contactinfos. many don't.
19:11:23 <arma> contacting the ones that do have the contactinfo seems smart
19:11:28 <arma> since they're probably better bridges anyway
19:11:44 <arma> i did a grep earlier to find out if there are old bridges still around, and the answer is yes there are
19:11:59 <arma> not only that but Serge doesn't run the tor version that kicks out 0.3.3.x, etc, so there are older bridges still too.
19:12:09 <GeKo> uh
19:12:18 <GeKo> hrm
19:12:56 <GeKo> is serge running that tor version on purpose?
19:13:01 <arma> probably no
19:13:10 <arma> it's just that nobody pushed gman to upgrade
19:13:24 * GeKo makes a note to do that
19:13:37 <arma> i told him there's no rush, since nobody has contacted those older bridges anyway
19:13:43 <arma> and once he does upgrade, they will vanish and we'll never know about them
19:14:13 <GeKo> indeed, so we might use that moment as an opportunity and do the contacting
19:14:20 <GeKo> and get serge upgraded
19:14:46 <GeKo> i guess i can look at the bridge data and see how severe the problem of older versions there is
19:14:56 <GeKo> and then extract a list of folks to contact
19:15:05 <GeKo> and then write another batch of emails
19:15:15 <arma> makes sense. the public (sanitized) bridge info leaves out contactinfo,
19:15:18 <GeKo> unless we have a better plan than that
19:15:20 <arma> so you'd want to look at the sekrit internal bridge data set
19:15:30 <GeKo> yes
19:15:51 <GeKo> i guess someone needs to get me access to that
19:16:02 <GeKo> OR gives me all the details to send the mails out :)
19:16:25 <GeKo> OR does all of it themselves ;)
19:17:06 <GeKo> anyway, i guess we can coordinate all the details once the relay mails are out
19:18:03 <GeKo> alright, do we have anything else we want to discuss today?
19:18:36 <arma> i have a pile of notes on tickets i am thinking to create. but i can coordinate with you at some later point. you have enough tickets to work on, i think.
19:18:54 <GeKo> yep
19:19:06 <GeKo> i realize a familiar pattern from tor browser land
19:19:25 <arma> oh?
19:19:31 <GeKo> that is the work to do is growing faste than the things that got done
19:19:36 <GeKo> *faster
19:20:04 <GeKo> so, yes, i won't get bored
19:20:24 <GeKo> oh, maybe as another update
19:20:44 <GeKo> i started to reach out to folks to run relays for network health purposes
19:21:07 <GeKo> i even got some money promise from isa for that
19:21:18 <GeKo> so this is coming at some point
19:21:33 <GeKo> and the current plan is to start with two relays
19:22:09 <dgoulet> GeKo: for you to run the relays?
19:22:10 <GeKo> (one of them used for weird tor setups, like on a windows machine with nss instead of openssl etc. to shake out bugs)
19:22:17 <arma> this will be a milestone, in that i think the tor project has never run relays before
19:22:36 <GeKo> probably, yes, with help from others
19:22:47 <GeKo> i roped tjr in for the windows one
19:22:56 <GeKo> so technically i might not even run that one
19:23:05 <arma> for a while we had plans for tor to never run relays, because it introduces new legal questions that otherwise weren't there (and we have enough legal questions already, as the developers of the hammer that somebody else could use to smash windows)
19:23:27 <arma> but i think shari decided that those legal questions were nonsense and we should not worry
19:23:48 <arma> but, still something to think about, if it is as easy to get somebody else, like tjr, to run them for you :)
19:24:01 <GeKo> yeah, definitely
19:24:15 <GeKo> i don't want to run parts of the network
19:25:23 <GeKo> alright, anything else last minute?
19:26:03 <GeKo> nothing it seems. thanks everyone!
19:26:05 <GeKo> #endmeeting