17:00:38 <gaba> #startmeeting network meeting for May 18th 2020
17:00:38 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon May 18 17:00:38 2020 UTC.  The chair is gaba. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:00:38 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:42 <asn> o/
17:00:52 <gaba> pad: https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-netteam-2020.1-keep
17:02:08 <gaba> hope you are all doing ok. Take time to update the statuses at the bottom of the pad
17:02:39 <nickm> times are interesting and strange around here, but i hope this will be a good week
17:03:24 <asn> i had way too many meetings last week and haven't had time to do the network team stuff that i needed to do
17:03:30 <nickm> i don't know if we have dgoulet today
17:03:42 <nickm> Caitlin messaged me to say that they might not be able to do this meeting either, but they would try
17:04:13 <gaba> yes, I think this week is more open for many of us
17:04:17 <gaba> ok
17:04:37 <ahf> dgoulet is out today
17:04:45 <gaba> yes, holidays
17:04:45 <ahf> it's a public holiday in ca i think
17:04:54 <asn> ah yes
17:05:05 <pastly> Next monday in the US
17:05:14 <gaba> about the sponsor work: do all of you know what you need to work on this week? any change that you want to include?
17:05:20 <ahf> i think thursday is a holiday here but i might swap it with friday
17:05:21 <nickm> oh yes
17:05:27 <ahf> gaba: yep
17:05:29 <asn> why do u have holidays people?
17:05:35 <asn> i mean in may
17:05:51 <asn> i mean apart from may first
17:05:53 <asn> anyway what's up?
17:05:57 <nickm> asn: you could make one up; i'd believe you :)
17:06:15 <ahf> because of jesus take off from the cave
17:06:19 <ahf> i think
17:06:44 <asn> love it
17:06:52 <ahf> "Feast of the Ascension" in english apparantly
17:07:10 <nickm> that's not leaving the cave, that's going up to heaven
17:07:28 <nickm> leaving the cave is easter
17:07:36 <gaba> the one from the US is about war...
17:07:36 <nickm> anyways ... :)
17:07:39 <gaba> anyway
17:07:48 <ahf> ah, i meant take-off like a rocket here
17:07:49 <asn> anyway
17:07:50 <ahf> yeah
17:07:52 <ahf> anyway
17:08:06 <gaba> nickm: you are not doing any s55 this week, right? wrapping up s69 with walking onions?
17:08:48 <nickm> gaba: I am hoping to do enough s55 so that i can be smart about it, and know what's in store.  That's going to mostly be reviewing teor's code and merging what i can, planning work to wrap up what i can't, and seeing what remains to be done
17:09:10 <gaba> ack
17:09:39 <nickm> but yeah, i want to wrap up walking initial walking onion designs
17:10:19 <gaba> reviews for this week. It seems that there are a few not assigned.
17:11:44 <asn> fun
17:11:52 <asn> will do so asap
17:12:11 <nickm> thanks asn
17:12:12 <gaba> any blocker from last week?
17:12:15 <asn> for me, things stacked up a lot last week, i hope this week does not continue this trend
17:12:23 <nickm> same here :)
17:12:40 <nickm> i don't know anything i'm blocked on now, but one task I have is triage for 0.4.4
17:12:50 <nickm> since we have a touch less than a month until 0.4.4 freeze
17:13:48 <ahf> i am not blocked
17:13:59 <ahf> geko is teaching me the ways of the gecko
17:14:28 <gaba> For 0.4.3 there are some tickets owned by catalyst. should we get somebody else to grab them? https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/teams/NetworkTeam/CoreTorReleases/043Status
17:14:40 <ahf> is s28, no?
17:15:00 <gaba> s28?
17:15:09 <ahf> sponsor 28
17:15:09 <nickm> i think part of 0.4.4 triage should be to look at the current 0.4.3 tasks and see what to do with them; I don't have a uniform answer for all of them
17:15:22 <gaba> oh yes
17:15:46 <gaba> nickm: is this something you are going to do this week? do you need help?
17:16:04 <ahf> i can grab #5304 and #31009 during that process, but right now i cannot say how much non-browser stuff my mind can handle right now
17:17:04 <nickm> gaba: i do need some help with 044 triage.  ideally this would break down into should/must as usual for the 044 timeline
17:17:23 <nickm> ahf: do you know when you expect to return from browser-land?
17:17:46 <gaba> #5304 is a must for s28 but i think phw or cohosh are not blocked on it. It can wait further down the road.
17:17:49 <ahf> i don't know what the timeline is in the end of the timeline. gaba knows
17:17:54 <ahf> but all s28 things are not urgent
17:18:06 <ahf> they can wait until after i return i think
17:18:16 <gaba> ahf will return! in october...
17:20:58 <nickm> so first step for 044 triage is to ask, what do we actually need to do in 044?  AFAIK there is no external "must" from sponsor work, so we just need to collect our "musts" from internal stuff, like security and correctness and stuff tbb needs
17:21:00 <ahf> :-)
17:21:16 <nickm> then we label the musts and the shoulds
17:21:34 <nickm> and get ready to kick out everything else when we hit the feature freeze
17:21:54 <gaba> do you want to do it now or after the meeting with somebody else?
17:22:29 <nickm> probably after the meeting is better , we don't need to halt everybody for this
17:22:41 <gaba> ok
17:23:57 <gaba> Continuing with the meeting, nickm needs help with #33850. Can anybody else take it?
17:24:21 <nickm> that's just one that i hope we don't drop in 044
17:24:27 <nickm> I can throw an 044-should on it and be happy
17:25:34 <gaba> ok
17:27:07 <nickm> (what's our next topic?)
17:27:22 <nickm> (oops -- am i supposed to be running this meeting?)
17:27:28 <gaba> anybodye lse needs help?
17:27:30 <gaba> else*
17:27:35 <pastly> yes
17:27:41 <pastly> well I have that discussion question
17:27:55 <gaba> yes, let's move into discussions
17:28:00 <pastly> Current plan is that FlashFlow will consist of a program that controls tor clients via the Control Port. Like Simple Bandwidth Scanner and Torflow. Would writing this code in Rust make it non-transitionable? Does the network team know enough Rust? The other idea is Python 3. Is that way better?
17:28:02 <gaba> the first one is yours pastly
17:28:33 <ahf> (didn't we also want to talk about proposals here? or was that just if we hadn't made progress on the ML's?)
17:28:49 <nickm> what's a ML?
17:28:55 <ahf> mailing lists
17:28:57 <nickm> ahhh
17:29:13 <nickm> let's briefly summarize where we are with ML progress after we talk about pastly's questino
17:29:16 <nickm> *question
17:29:25 <nickm> I don't think rust is a blocker for me in principle
17:29:52 <nickm> this is something that would want to run on some fraction of relays, but not all?
17:29:57 <ahf> i don't know why you would do in rust unless you also have time to rewrite a good bunch of stem in rust too
17:30:35 <pastly> nickm: this Rust codebase would be run by bwauths (or people the bwauths trust) and not on relays
17:31:04 <nickm> I don't think rust is a blocker in principle
17:31:20 <nickm> (does anybody think it might be?)
17:31:38 <pastly> ahf: fair of course. It isn't "a good bunch" IMHO, just a couple of new commands.
17:31:56 <pastly> I considered mentioning a python shim between rust and tor, but that seems unnecessarily complex
17:31:57 <asn> i dont think rust is a blocker, but also i dont know much rust
17:32:45 * ahf is fine with either rust or python too
17:33:04 <pastly> So while Rust may be acceptable, is Python 3 still way better for transitionability, do you think? Or maybe it's close enough it doesn't matter?
17:33:23 <nickm> i think both are fine
17:33:47 <nickm> I'd say that whatever you are more confident that you can deliver maintainable code in
17:34:13 <pastly> Okay, thanks for the feedback.
17:34:14 <nickm> like, maintainable well-factored rust is much better than undocumented spaghetti python, and vice versa :)
17:34:22 <pastly> :)
17:34:36 <gaba> ok. next discussion point is nick's :)
17:35:09 <nickm> i think we got that -- it's just the 044 triage
17:35:17 <nickm> do folks think that my general plan above made sense?
17:35:37 <ahf> yes
17:35:43 <nickm> (general plan is: only call security/correctness/tbb-needs "must".)
17:35:57 <nickm> anybody want to sit down with me tomorrow and help?
17:36:19 <nickm> i've found that this is something that goes more than 2x faster with 2 people :)
17:36:59 <gaba> ^ anybody? :) I can do it nickm but not sure if I will be of help or not.
17:37:17 <ahf> hm, if it can be done thursday after our other meeting i am up for it, but i would like to have nothing scheduled tomorrow
17:37:18 <nickm> if there's a better time this week, i could do it then too
17:37:19 <asn> perhaps we can all do it in thursday?
17:37:28 <asn> during our one hour voice call thing?
17:37:29 <nickm> ooh, i would enjoy that
17:37:31 <gaba> oh yes
17:37:34 <ahf> let's do it there then
17:37:36 <ahf> +1
17:37:47 <asn> great
17:38:02 <gaba> ok. Anything else?
17:38:13 <nickm> should we check in on proposal status?
17:38:31 <gaba> sure. We have 20min left for the hour.
17:38:48 <nickm> I don't have anything on 316 yet, but I hope I will soon
17:38:59 <nickm> asn/ahf: are we in a good place with 317?
17:39:22 <ahf> the discussion has begun and is ongoing
17:39:25 <nickm> great
17:39:34 <ahf> i don't think the current design is good and i don't think we can adopt 27k loc's in tor
17:39:39 <ahf> i think that is the gist of it
17:39:43 <nickm> yikes, makes sense
17:39:44 <asn> im on 316
17:39:49 <nickm> oh!
17:39:50 <ahf> dgoulet is also on 317
17:39:53 <asn> ye
17:39:55 <nickm> oops, sorry
17:40:19 <nickm> asn: sorry for not getting 316 stuff done. would you like to plan a time later this week for us to chat about it, to give me a deadline to come up to speed?
17:40:25 <asn> same here
17:40:26 <pastly> (I'm around during US 8-4 M-F to talk about 316)
17:40:41 <asn> i have spent more time than expected reading prop316
17:40:46 <asn> but i havent posted a review yet
17:40:52 <asn> and i still have some fundamental questions
17:40:56 <asn> which led me to start reading the paper...
17:40:59 <asn> and here i am today
17:41:08 <ahf> pastly: working from 8 and backwards in time, very confusing for us in europe, who lack that technology :-P
17:41:24 <asn> pastly: perhaps we can do a short call at some point this week to clarify some things?
17:41:39 <pastly> asn:  sure thing
17:41:50 <asn> ok sounds good
17:41:54 <asn> perhaps even tomorrow or the day after
17:41:57 <asn> i will send u on IRC
17:42:07 <pastly> sounds good
17:42:28 <nickm> ok
17:42:54 <nickm> dgoulet and teor wrote good comments on 318 through 320; i should reply
17:44:00 <gaba> ok. Anything else?
17:44:42 <nickm> i'd like comments on prop#315 if anybody has some.
17:45:04 <nickm> and that's it :)
17:45:35 <nickm> oh, next monday is a us holiday, right?
17:45:43 <pastly> yes
17:45:52 <nickm> so as not to disrupt things, let's do the meeting on time, but I'll take the rest of the day off ?
17:46:02 <nickm> I'm not going to be travelling anywhere :)
17:46:37 <gaba> :) me neither
17:46:55 <gaba> I will send the notes from this meeting to tor-project@
17:47:18 <asn> i've been saving some holidays during the carantine that i would like to cash out at some point
17:47:21 <asn> might be next week, but i will see
17:47:52 <gaba> ok
17:48:00 <gaba> closing the meeting for today then
17:48:04 <gaba> #endmeeting