16:00:19 <cohosh> #startmeeting tor anti-censorship meeting
16:00:19 <MeetBot> Meeting started Thu Jun 10 16:00:19 2021 UTC.  The chair is cohosh. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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16:00:25 <cohosh> here's our meeting pad: https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-anti-censorship-keep
16:01:30 <meskio> hello
16:02:07 <cohosh> feel free to add items to the agenda
16:03:02 <cohosh> dcf1: i think that first item is yours, do you want to lead the discussion?
16:03:33 <dcf1> meskio, I see you're working on gettor, does your work touch the uploading part of it?
16:03:58 <meskio> yes, the plan is to rewrite it so it works automatically, now is a manual process and is never up to date
16:04:04 <cohosh> for reference, this is the script with the ia upload: https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/anti-censorship/gettor-project/gettor/-/blob/main/scripts/update_files
16:04:16 <dcf1> oh thanks
16:04:29 <meskio> ia?
16:04:44 <dcf1> every time I look at https://archive.org/details/@gettor it seems strange
16:04:51 <dcf1> ia == Internet Archive == archive.org
16:04:57 <meskio> :)
16:05:13 <cohosh> i'm guessing in the short term, it's a matter of just updating that one line
16:05:13 <anadahz> (hi)
16:05:21 <dcf1> with one "item" per file, even separating the binaries and signatures into separate items
16:05:25 <dcf1> https://archive.org/details/torbrowser-install-win64-10.0.14_zh-TW.exe
16:05:29 <dcf1> https://archive.org/details/torbrowser-install-win64-10.0.14_zh-TW.exe.asc
16:05:29 <meskio> first time I look on how the uploads are in ia
16:05:59 <meskio> I see, they could be a single item with with different files in them, isn't it?
16:06:19 <dcf1> It's possible to have multiple files per item, so there could be one item for torbrowser-10.0.14, and then all the localizations and OSes could be inside it.
16:06:20 <meskio> will it make sense to have one item per release? or per release-arch-lang?
16:06:25 <dcf1> https://blog.archive.org/2011/03/31/how-archive-org-items-are-structured/
16:06:44 <dcf1> Or yeah, could be one item per arch, or at least put the signatures in the same item as the executable.
16:06:48 <meskio> I think it makes sense, I will need to explore the ia API to see how to do that, but I think is a good point
16:07:04 <dcf1> I think anarcat has a lot of experience with archive.org, you might get a second opinion from them.
16:07:18 <meskio> nice, I'll ask him
16:07:32 <dcf1> One thing is I don't know if it impacts usability, i.e.
16:07:51 <dcf1> At https://archive.org/details/torbrowser-install-win64-10.0.14_zh-TW.exe there is a "WINDOWS EXECUTABLE" link off to the side,
16:07:53 <meskio> I guess we can't modify the old ones for now, as we might not want to break compatibility with links that are already distributed
16:08:15 <dcf1> and if you get that far, clicking that link will get you what you want. Whereas if it's dozens of files maybe not.
16:08:33 <dcf1> But if gettor emails are linking directly to a single file, it wouldn't be a problem.
16:08:41 <dcf1> Oh yeah, I would not modify anything already uploaded.
16:08:42 <meskio> if I understand correctly what you get from gettor is the actual download link
16:08:48 <meskio> you should not se the page of the item
16:09:08 <dcf1> A direct file link would look like e.g. https://archive.org/download/torbrowser-10.0.14/torbrowser-install-win64-10.0.14_zh-TW.exe
16:09:18 <dcf1> I.e. with "/download/" instead of "/details/"
16:09:47 <meskio> sounds pretty straight forward, yes
16:09:48 <dcf1> That's all I have to say. Sorry, I know it's random, I just think about it every time I see the page.
16:09:54 <meskio> thanks for noticing it
16:10:20 <cohosh> yeah thanks
16:10:33 <meskio> I guess at some point in the future we could remove or reorganize old content, so the page looks cleaner, but we'll need to wait a bit of time
16:11:07 <dcf1> nah I would just leave the old stuff forever
16:11:25 <meskio> :)
16:11:25 <dcf1> cool URLs don't change
16:12:15 <cohosh> :D
16:12:21 <cohosh> anything else for discussion today?
16:12:23 * meskio goes to write a note about that in the issue
16:13:51 <cohosh> okay any needs help with?
16:14:14 <cohosh> arlolra: sorry i didn't get around to looking at the broker work this week
16:14:22 <cohosh> i still have it on my list
16:14:29 <cohosh> and am planning to look at it this week
16:14:41 <arlolra> that's ok, dcf provided some valuable feedback and i reworked it a bit
16:14:54 <arlolra> no rush
16:15:04 <cohosh> nice
16:15:23 <dcf1> arlolra: yeah it looks like I was wrong in initially suggesting unifying "legacy" with the version numbers as I suggested to cohosh to do
16:15:35 <dcf1> Because the "legacy" really does only belong to the HTTP layer
16:15:52 <dcf1> SO the two-level decision tree really is appropriate
16:16:09 <cohosh> if it's going to cause problems in the future, we could change this
16:16:10 <arlolra> that's somewhat easier to see when things are separated as in the patch
16:16:18 <dcf1> yeah
16:16:28 <arlolra> i've followed up with that refactor
16:16:30 <arlolra> as you'll see
16:16:41 <dcf1> one layer of the tree happens at the HTTP handler, the lower layer happens in the factored-out common code
16:16:48 <agix> hey
16:17:50 <arlolra> https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/anti-censorship/pluggable-transports/snowflake/-/merge_requests/39/diffs?commit_id=0ef22502808f473bc9f368166c1c3c723fa71d09
16:19:19 <dcf1> good assessment, thanks
16:21:02 <cohosh> anything else for today?
16:21:34 <anadahz> How was the RightCons' session?
16:22:04 <cohosh> i didn't attend RightsCon this year
16:22:13 <cohosh> i think ggus might have
16:23:35 <anadahz> ah ok I think I read about Snowflake somewhere on the program.
16:24:45 <dcf1> I didn't hear about that. At https://blog.torproject.org/events/month I see "RightsCon Tor Panel: Building strategies to diversify funds"
16:25:10 <cohosh> yeah me neither, i'm looking up the program now
16:26:19 <cohosh> hm i don't see it
16:27:17 <anadahz> sorry, my bad
16:27:25 <cohosh> oh no worries :)
16:27:38 <anadahz> anyhow I read the survey about Snowflake, great work!!
16:27:45 <cohosh> thanks anadahz!
16:28:22 <cohosh> okay i think i'll end the meeting here
16:28:35 <cohosh> #endmeeting