16:01:18 <GeKo> #startmeeting network-health 08/16/2021
16:01:18 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Aug 16 16:01:18 2021 UTC.  The chair is GeKo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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16:01:25 <GeKo> alright, let's get started
16:01:36 <GeKo> here is the pad to enter the updates and items for discussion
16:01:42 <GeKo> http://kfahv6wfkbezjyg4r6mlhpmieydbebr5vkok5r34ya464gqz6c44bnyd.onion/p/tor-nethealthteam-2021.1-keep
16:01:57 <ggus> o/
16:02:06 <GeKo> this contains all the network-health/metrics related parts which are not s61 related
16:02:13 <hiro> o/
16:02:40 <GeKo> we have split that part out to the network-team meetings/monthly syncs
16:03:08 <gaba> hi!
16:03:16 <GeKo> hello, hello
16:04:51 <GeKo> irl[m]: in case you are around, feel free to add your updates, too
16:06:21 <GeKo> okay, let's get started
16:06:45 <GeKo> so far i don't see any items marked in bold
16:07:01 <GeKo> so we might not have much to discuss today
16:07:08 <gaba> yep
16:07:53 <GeKo> hiro: aha, you are using snippets for that, interesting
16:08:03 <GeKo> does that help to organize stuff for you?
16:08:09 <hiro> GeKo: trying it out so I don't forget what I have been doing
16:08:21 <GeKo> yeah
16:08:41 <hiro> in google it was custom to submit your snippets on friday... trying to resurrect that habit
16:08:48 <GeKo> i've been trying to update the meeting pad at the end of my working day
16:08:58 <GeKo> that way i document what i did
16:09:09 <GeKo> and had all the notes for the meeting ready at the meeting
16:09:17 <GeKo> and did not start frantically add things ;)
16:09:52 <GeKo> but, yes, maybe snippets is a good/better way to do things...
16:10:02 <hiro> whatever works!
16:10:30 <gaba> you board should also reflect this :)
16:11:05 <GeKo> well, yes
16:11:14 <GeKo> but it might not reflect the things actually touched
16:11:20 <gaba> right
16:11:44 <hiro> If I take notes I also record some thoughts too... which sometimes doesn't necessary go into one single ticket
16:11:51 <GeKo> right
16:12:25 <GeKo> okay, are we still good with the work for this week or do we need to discuss anything?
16:12:36 <hiro> I am groot
16:12:41 <GeKo> hiro: one things comes to mind right now.
16:12:52 <hiro> I hope to be able to merge and deploy the overload stuff this week I am not sure GeKo if you could review so irl isn't overloaded
16:12:55 <hiro> sure tell me
16:12:59 <GeKo> before you came back we thought about what to do with the metrics-team mailing list
16:13:12 <GeKo> and thought it can go or merged to the network-health one
16:13:22 <GeKo> given that metrics is not an own team anymore
16:13:22 <hiro> yes we discussed on the call
16:13:40 <GeKo> aha, it was on the call, right
16:13:49 <hiro> I think that's ok as most of the issues would be of interest to the network health list members too
16:13:53 <GeKo> so, you are still okay with the idea
16:13:56 <GeKo> yeah
16:14:12 <hiro> we just have to make sure people know and subscribe
16:14:24 <GeKo> right
16:14:54 <GeKo> i wonder whether should subscribe the folks on metrics-team@ automatically to network-health@
16:15:15 <GeKo> so they don't need to do anything
16:15:26 <GeKo> not sure what the expectations are here
16:15:30 <hiro> that could be a solution
16:15:38 <GeKo> and then, of course, announce the change on tor-project@ etc.
16:15:39 <hiro> I was thinking as an automate response too
16:16:04 <hiro> I think the only reason someone could get upset is if network-health has a lot of emails
16:16:16 <GeKo> yeah
16:16:39 <GeKo> we used to have a period where we used it for contacting eol relay ops
16:16:50 <GeKo> and folks were not happy about that as that involved a ton of mails
16:16:50 <hiro> but I don't think that's the case?
16:16:57 <GeKo> but then i stopped
16:17:04 <GeKo> and things got pretty quite again
16:17:06 <ggus> GeKo: hiro: if we don't any other item on the agenda, can we discuss roger's email after this topic?
16:17:28 <GeKo> if you tell me about roger's email, yes :)
16:17:32 <GeKo> which one?
16:17:56 <hiro> I think is the one about spikes
16:18:00 <ggus> *that* one
16:18:26 <GeKo> hiro: okay i'll file a ticket in the team project for the metrics-team mailing list and we can get the ball rolling
16:18:31 <GeKo> aha, yes
16:18:36 <GeKo> ggus: go ahead :)
16:20:26 <ggus> so i was checking metrics data the other day, and sometimes the data doesn't look like a censorship circumvention or motivated by other social/political factors
16:20:36 <ggus> like weird data
16:20:45 <ggus> i wonder what to do in these cases
16:21:32 <ggus> it's relevant to net-health
16:21:39 <ggus> but not so relevant to community team
16:21:41 <GeKo> hm. i guess we could try to detect "weird data"
16:21:50 <GeKo> and then someone should take a look at it
16:22:05 <GeKo> that's probably related to what i wrote about who should own the scanning
16:22:31 <hiro> I think with the right tooling scanning and alerting can be "easy" to maintain
16:22:47 <GeKo> yep, i agree
16:23:01 <hiro> I have started playing with grafana and prometheus and it's promising
16:23:38 <hiro> I think it is a question of allocating resources with a specific objective so that it can fit into one of our sponsor work present or future
16:24:25 <GeKo> ggus: we could put the task to ticketify things onto our plate
16:24:27 <GeKo> as i wrote
16:24:41 <GeKo> and that should cover cases you have in mind, too
16:24:52 <ggus> GeKo: ok, i agree
16:25:23 <GeKo> the tricky part will be to get this sufficiently high onto our plate to get it actually done :(
16:26:09 <GeKo> i guess i could start with ticket creation this week at least
16:26:19 <GeKo> and we can start adding meat to those tickets
16:26:23 <GeKo> and flesh things out
16:26:30 <GeKo> if we have some time
16:26:37 <hiro> uhm so maybe the relay side of the "weird data" is actually very relevant... some of the reports about bad relays from last year mentioned lack of tools... the client side could be less so atm
16:27:04 <ggus> GeKo: gaba: we will have a new call for projects in Outreachy. I wonder if we want to submit a new project. and if "metrics data analysis" would be an interesting one.
16:27:15 <GeKo> hiro: yes, it could be
16:27:31 <GeKo> but even bad-relay work is a topic which is an endless sink
16:27:45 <hiro> yes true
16:27:51 <GeKo> because there is so many ways for potentially weird data you can scan for
16:28:00 <GeKo> which means prioritization
16:28:28 <GeKo> but, yes, if we are smart we can make progress on both fronts at once
16:28:44 <GeKo> and we likely should, good point
16:29:22 <GeKo> ggus: well, maybe. i am not sure what the usual target audience for outreachy is
16:30:00 <GeKo> but i'd be happy seeing someone we get that way working on this topic
16:30:18 <ggus> GeKo: new free software developers. and we can define the required skills for the project.
16:30:32 <GeKo> i see
16:30:41 <GeKo> do we have a deadline here?
16:30:44 <ggus> at the moment we're doing user feedback reports and user support, but that will change with the new user support person (i guess).
16:30:45 <hiro> I have tried to sell this topic to some of the ms students at the uni were I supervise thesis work... but no luck
16:31:01 <GeKo> nice try, though :)
16:31:06 <ggus> GeKo: i believe we need to submit a new project at the beginnig of september
16:31:38 <GeKo> okay. so, what about we file tickets for different aspects of the whole project
16:31:48 <GeKo> and then pick some promising area for the outreach part?
16:31:54 <GeKo> *outreachy
16:32:17 <ggus> sounds good. let's use network-health/team repo for this?
16:32:22 <GeKo> yes
16:32:46 <GeKo> what i am not sure about, though, is how this ranks to other needs we might satisfy with an outreachy person
16:33:00 <GeKo> like is it *the* project we should try to get someone for?
16:33:10 <GeKo> or do we have even more important things to get help with?
16:33:23 <ggus> good question
16:33:32 <hiro> how many projects can we submit to outreachy? and how does selection work?
16:34:10 <hiro> like: is it about someone liking project A over project B?
16:34:11 <ggus> we can submit 1 or 2 projects. in the last time, we only submitted one because we only had 1 mentor
16:35:17 <ggus> in the previous years we had projects to update the trac documentation, user feedback+user support, and anon-gitlab.
16:36:17 <GeKo> i guess we can create the tickets and we can try to find out in parallel whether we want to have parts of the project for outreachy
16:36:42 <GeKo> not sure who is involved here or should
16:36:48 <GeKo> i guess you, ggus
16:36:54 <GeKo> maybe gaba as well
16:37:12 <GeKo> i let that for you to figure out, ggus :)
16:37:36 <ggus> ok, the next project will happen during december 2021 - march 2022
16:38:38 <ggus> i will ask to ux team too
16:38:56 <GeKo> sounds good, thanks
16:40:03 <GeKo> anything else for today?
16:40:27 <ggus> i'm good
16:41:01 <GeKo> alright, hiro was already happy, so, thanks everyone and have a nice week
16:41:05 <GeKo> #endmeeting