13:59:49 <donuts> #startmeeting ux monthly sync
13:59:49 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue Oct 12 13:59:49 2021 UTC.  The chair is donuts. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:59:49 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:00:02 <donuts> UX team meeting is GO
14:00:10 <donuts> is anyone here today?
14:00:16 <antonela> hellooo
14:00:20 * antonela made it
14:00:35 <nah> hellooo
14:00:41 <nah> antonela :))
14:01:03 <antonela> oi nah
14:01:33 <donuts> hi nah & antonela!
14:03:40 <donuts> okay looks like it may just be us today
14:03:54 <donuts> pad is here: https://pad.riseup.net/p/1D8sK8Zy74b_0qclC97I-ux-team-monthly-2020-keep
14:04:12 <donuts> please add anything you'd like to discuss today to the agenda, although it looks like everyone has already :)
14:04:22 <antonela> its good! could i ask for an item? i missed the last all hands and i really want to see the draft of the tb survey reporting
14:04:32 * ggus waves o/
14:04:39 <donuts> hi ggus!
14:04:48 <antonela> (it does not need to be now,  i can read offline)
14:05:24 <donuts> antonela: of course, nah could you PM antonela a link to the all hands report when you get a sec?
14:05:38 <nah> sure!
14:05:44 <antonela> thanks <3
14:05:46 <donuts> I'm going to go ahead and strike out item 3 in the agenda, as I've totally failed to figure out where it came from
14:05:55 <donuts> although it's something I'll do offline for sure
14:06:19 <nah> also, just a quick update on the report: i need to update a chart and remove some quotes to send it in our public channels (some ppl emailed me about the report)
14:07:04 <donuts> what chart needs updated nah? I was planning on taking a look today/tomorrow if I have a free moment
14:07:42 <donuts> although I also need to finish the product brief for S101 before tomorrow
14:08:03 <nah> i need to check
14:08:08 <donuts> okaydokes :)
14:08:17 * antonela lurking the roadmap, what a beautyyy
14:08:32 <donuts> aha yesss, gaba, nah & I updated it last week!
14:08:40 <donuts> https://www.figma.com/file/n4ETd0cUkcfj3KyclJQnt3/UX-Team-Planning?node-id=0%3A1
14:09:30 <donuts> There's still quite a lot of stuff in the backlog, which we either can't schedule right at this present moment – or will have to wait until Q4 2021
14:10:06 <donuts> but between the year end campaign and December vacation we still have more than enough to keep us busy :)
14:11:02 <donuts> nah: on the subject of the roadmap, I spoke to isa on Friday and she's fine with moving the features survey to Jan if you prefer
14:11:28 <donuts> we'll still do all the prep for it in December, and we can swap out the YEC banner for the features survey banner in the first release in 2022
14:12:09 <donuts> it also gives the wider S101 group a little more time to "refine" exactly what the features we survey users will be
14:12:23 <nah> yep, i think it would be good to use the banner
14:12:50 <donuts> great, okay I'm going to update the roadmap accordingly
14:13:47 <donuts> _something like that_
14:13:54 * donuts will tidy it up later
14:14:14 <donuts> okay, I snuck the next item in the agenda in nah
14:14:20 <donuts> and I'm not sure if you saw it
14:14:29 <donuts> hehe
14:14:30 <donuts> "Quick update on the VPN survey (nah)"
14:14:32 <nah> just did :)
14:14:43 <donuts> it's so nice being able to see the data in realtime in limesurvey for a change
14:14:50 <donuts> what are we up to with resopnses so far?
14:14:52 <nah> so we launched a survey to understand our users use of Tor and VPNs
14:15:04 <nah> we are very close to 17K complete responses
14:15:09 <nah> \o/
14:15:18 <antonela> woah
14:15:21 <donuts> :o
14:15:23 <nah> exactly 16970 atm
14:15:42 <donuts> subtract 1 for the test I lost
14:15:47 <donuts> survey's ruined, lol
14:15:55 <nah> 2 with mine as well haha
14:15:59 <donuts> hahaha
14:16:25 <nah> i sent some emails to our mailing lists today
14:16:31 <donuts> yes, I saw – thank you!
14:16:35 <nah> ggus also shared in some other channels
14:16:53 <donuts> oh ty ggus!!
14:17:05 <nah> so it's good to postpone the next survey so we can use the banner and have the same audience
14:17:08 <donuts> I meant to ask comms to share it on our socials, but forgot
14:17:15 <donuts> nah: yes, you're right
14:17:20 <ggus> sent to keepiton mailing list, which is the intersection between Tor-VPN-in-the-global-south
14:17:43 <donuts> antonela: I just saw your roadmap comment, haha!
14:17:49 <donuts> 🤞
14:17:58 <donuts> ggus: ah great idea
14:18:07 <nah> i think we have another week to gather responses, right?
14:18:41 <donuts> yes, one week exactly
14:18:49 <nah> great :)
14:18:53 <antonela> 🙊
14:19:10 <donuts> I've extended the time we have to create the report too since we won't have the same pressure to launch the next survey in Q4
14:20:00 <nah> thank you!
14:20:16 <donuts> no thank you!
14:20:24 <donuts> okay is that it for the roadmap and survey for today?
14:20:30 * donuts checks the agenda
14:21:04 <donuts> is championquizzer around by any chance?
14:21:11 <championquizzer> hello!
14:21:34 <donuts> hi championquizzer!
14:21:49 <donuts> I added your report to the UX meeting agenda, I hope you don't mind ^^
14:21:58 <donuts> Link here: https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-project/2021-October/003193.html
14:22:20 <championquizzer> awesome. any questions? :)
14:22:35 <donuts> The macOS download links was unfortunate, but going by the low volume of tickets it looks like it was caught early
14:22:58 <championquizzer> yeah, it was out for like 24-36 hrs i think
14:23:36 <donuts> "we have received nearly 1200 to 1300 spam tickets per month"
14:23:39 <donuts> wow, what a pain
14:23:41 <ggus> donuts: maybe we could discuss today the user feedback report format? if we want to have a monthly report or a weekly report or other structure/format?
14:23:44 <nah> wow
14:23:55 <ggus> this-is-fine.jpg
14:24:04 <donuts> ggus: for sure, I think monthly makes sense looking at the numbers here
14:24:07 <donuts> nah: what do you think?
14:24:26 <championquizzer> it's not just frontdesk, but press@, info@ as well! :)
14:24:50 <championquizzer> i mean 1200-1300 is just for frontdesk but those other queues are affected as well
14:25:34 <nah> sorry, i was reading the report
14:25:42 <donuts> one thing that would be useful would be to get more of a sense of what specifically users are finding confusing in items like "Queries regarding v2 onion services deprecation"
14:25:43 <nah> i agree with donuts
14:25:48 <donuts> (if indeed they are confused about anything)
14:26:25 <donuts> also ggus: is it normal to receive that many private bridges requests on RT?
14:26:38 <championquizzer> ok, right. The confusion is mainly for the end user who believe they have to update to something
14:26:49 <ggus> donuts: it's increasing since we create an article focused on chinese users
14:27:00 <donuts> ah yes
14:27:10 <championquizzer> like, 'how do i update to Tor version 3?' 'how do i download Tor version3' ?
14:27:14 <ggus> donuts: private bridges == secret bridges in the new terminology
14:27:24 <antonela> love it
14:27:30 <donuts> aha yes of course
14:27:32 <ggus> https://support.torproject.org/censorship/connecting-from-china/
14:28:01 <donuts> championquizzer: that's what I suspected, ty
14:28:14 <donuts> I've revised the warning copy for the final deprecation error in TB
14:28:20 <championquizzer> on avg we get 8-9 pvt bridge requests per month. Since the article, it's 18 in 20 days!
14:28:27 <donuts> but I'm not sure if that's going to make it into TB 11 or not
14:28:41 <championquizzer> donuts: thanks
14:29:03 <donuts> https://www.figma.com/file/RtZ0fqkNMRc7GOjK3FLclz/Tor-Browser-Proton?node-id=611%3A55
14:29:14 <antonela> have you been thinking about adding a security/abstraction layer to bridges addresses so we never expose it while interacting with users? i think there was a ticket as part of 30 or whatever came next
14:29:26 <donuts> if you look all the way to the right (just before the onionsite error template) you'll see the revised copy there
14:30:17 <antonela> (and ovbi, users do not need to manually manipulate the bridge address within TB or other client)
14:30:21 <donuts> I copied the "what can you do about it?" pattern firefox uses to reinforce it's not an issue with the user's browser, but the exact copy can still be tweaked
14:30:54 <championquizzer> antonela: very interesting
14:31:37 <donuts> antonela: hrmm, I'm not familiar with that ticket
14:32:10 <ggus> donuts: it's about the new 'almost automatic censorship detection' work that you and richard are doing
14:32:10 <antonela> querying gitlab rn
14:33:05 <donuts> oh is it the URI for bridges ticket?
14:33:10 <donuts> *URIs
14:33:18 <antonela> yes, uris can do it!
14:33:33 <donuts> aha sorry, got thrown off by "security/abstraction layer"!
14:33:47 <donuts> yess, I'm hoping to include that!
14:34:04 <antonela> lovely
14:34:04 * richard has been summoned
14:34:14 <antonela> richard: <3
14:34:17 <ggus> https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-dev/2021-July/014578.html
14:36:01 <donuts> oh there's an updated version of the email spec here now too: https://docs.google.com/document/d/16NVqOvIOdy26vvH7P94D1kXmXoppKTRmv4T--fMfHjg/edit?usp=sharing
14:36:14 <antonela> :fire:
14:36:26 * antonela democratizing emojis access
14:36:45 * donuts still can't find the ticket, but it definitely exists
14:39:18 <donuts> https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/applications/fenix/-/issues/40189
14:39:19 <donuts> ?
14:39:27 <donuts> I think there's an older one with more discussion somewhere too
14:40:21 <donuts> Looks like there's one last item on the agenda for today
14:40:31 <donuts> "5. Stages of UX Design Maturity in OSS"
14:40:38 <donuts> whoever added this, would you like to take the floor?
14:41:36 <antonela> yo!
14:41:54 <donuts> :D
14:42:14 <antonela> we discussed that in the past based on a NN article, and now the conversation started in the open design forum. I feel we have a lot to share about maturity and oss and how we experienced it
14:42:27 <antonela> i wonder if we want to jump there :)
14:43:50 <donuts> https://www.nngroup.com/articles/ux-maturity-model/
14:43:53 <donuts> this one irrc?
14:44:27 <antonela> right
14:45:07 <antonela> folks are thinking about it in terms of open source projects which we know at this point that are some differences from corporative environments
14:45:33 <donuts> right right, I see
14:45:45 <antonela> i feel our ux practice has been growing exponentially in the past years and we may have things to say about it
14:45:59 <donuts> absolutely, I understand now
14:46:10 <donuts> are you part of this community antonela?
14:46:38 <antonela> well, i've been invited to give a talk during FOSDEM in the past and sometimes i read their discussions
14:46:49 <antonela> its not so active tbh
14:46:58 <antonela> but cool people is in there
14:47:06 <nah> is there a forum to discuss it? i'm not familiar
14:47:23 <donuts> https://discourse.opensourcedesign.net/t/stages-of-ux-design-maturity-in-oss/2715
14:47:34 <nah> but i think it is super interesting to share with the (f)oss perspective
14:47:42 <donuts> that's where the discussion's happening
14:47:56 <nah> thanks, donuts
14:49:26 <antonela> so, sharing it here, if you feel triggered go for it <3
14:49:39 <donuts> ty anto!
14:50:07 <donuts> 10 minutes to go, anything else anyone would like to bring up today? or are we good?
14:50:48 <nah> quick update:
14:50:53 <nah> https://forum.torproject.net/t/about-the-feedback-category/30
14:51:13 <donuts> :O
14:51:13 <nah> we have a category at the forum
14:51:15 <donuts> it's live!
14:51:31 <antonela> woahh its live?
14:51:32 <ggus> it's readable, but people can't create accounts at the moment.
14:51:32 <nah> for feedback on UX and UI
14:51:40 <donuts> ahhhh gotcha ggus
14:51:46 <antonela> what timessss
14:51:47 <ggus> but soon they will be able
14:51:57 <donuts> _soon_
14:52:01 <nah> :D
14:52:10 * donuts prepares for vpn questions
14:52:12 <antonela> oh darkmode by default, loveelyyy
14:53:18 <nah> yay
14:53:21 <nah> now i'm good :)
14:53:44 <championquizzer> donuts: we have one or two tickets on frontdesk regarding the survey. would it be alright if I cc you and nah as I respond?
14:54:05 <donuts> championquizzer: yes please do :)
14:54:22 <championquizzer> will do, thanks
14:55:12 <ggus> donuts: one last thing
14:55:25 <donuts> go for it
14:56:28 <ggus> donuts: let me know if the forum UI look good or if it need some change. i've changed discourse default stylesheet, but maybe you have opinion about colors, logo, and other UI stuff?
14:56:58 <donuts> ggus: it's purple and has a logo! mission accomplished hehe
14:57:07 <ggus> hahah! <3
14:57:07 <nah> hehe
14:57:19 <donuts> but sure thing, I'm not sure if I have theming access but I'll check!
14:57:20 <donuts> ty!
14:57:47 <ggus> donuts: i can change your permission
14:58:52 <donuts> logging in now to see...
15:00:00 <donuts> hrm okay I think I have basic admin access, but I probably need a boost for theming
15:01:54 <ggus> ok, i will do that
15:02:06 <donuts> ty ggus!
15:02:18 <donuts> okay I'm going to go ahead and close the meeting in 3...
15:02:19 <donuts> 2...
15:02:21 <donuts> 1...
15:02:23 <antonela> thanksss
15:02:26 <donuts> #endmeeting