13:59:39 <ggus> #startmeeting Community Team Meeting - 2021-12-20
13:59:39 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Dec 20 13:59:39 2021 UTC.  The chair is ggus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:59:39 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
13:59:46 <ggus> Hello everyone
14:00:00 <championquizzer> hello! o/
14:00:05 <ggus> starting now the community team weekly meeting
14:00:07 <ggus> o/
14:00:46 <ggus> here is our meeting pad: https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-community-team-2021-keep
14:00:50 <ggus> please add your updates
14:02:19 <miko[m]> hello! o/
14:03:32 <ggus> emmapeel: are you around?
14:03:36 <championquizzer> hello, miko[m]
14:03:54 <miko[m]> hi championquizzer!
14:06:29 <miko[m]> i'm done with the pad!
14:06:52 <ggus> me too
14:07:04 <ggus> i don't think we will have emma today, so maybe we can start
14:07:15 <championquizzer> (me too)
14:07:22 <ggus> championquizzer: the first item in the agenda is yours i guess :)
14:07:25 <emmapeel> ey there sorry
14:07:30 <emmapeel> helo!
14:07:32 <championquizzer> yes
14:07:40 <championquizzer> emmapeel: hello!
14:07:46 <miko[m]> hi emma!
14:07:51 <championquizzer> i will wait 1 minute now
14:07:55 <championquizzer> :)
14:08:08 <ggus> btw, today is our last 2021 meeting!
14:08:18 <championquizzer> new year, new pad
14:08:30 <miko[m]> :o
14:08:42 <emmapeel> sorry i am a bit late, you can start and i will fill out my section meanwhile
14:08:49 <championquizzer> sure
14:09:13 <championquizzer> ok, so i wanted to discuss a policy for marking threads on the forum as 'resolved'
14:09:51 <championquizzer> we have a few threads marked as 'resolved' already but i think we never actually discussed some rules/ best practices
14:10:40 <championquizzer> from my experience on tor stack exchange, it is the one who asks the q that is responsible to approve a answer as accepted one
14:10:51 <championquizzer> but i don't think it will be a good idea on our forum
14:11:22 <ggus> right now: moderators and OP can mark the topic as solved
14:11:32 <championquizzer> yes
14:11:35 <emmapeel> i marked some answers as solutions to the thread
14:11:55 <emmapeel> that made them appear just after the OP question
14:12:11 <emmapeel> is that what you mean?
14:12:15 <championquizzer> one rule i can think of: the one who has answered the thread cannot mark the same response as 'resolved'
14:12:21 <championquizzer> emmapeel: yep
14:12:57 <ggus> i think the rule zero is: if it's a FAQ or something answered by our docs, then you can mark as resolved.
14:13:28 <championquizzer> even if *you* answered it? or it should run by a fellow mod first?
14:13:31 <emmapeel> if you mark as resolved, then the thread kinda dissappears, right?
14:13:42 <ggus> even you answered it
14:13:58 <championquizzer> emmapeel: do you mean disappears from the main page?
14:14:05 <emmapeel> championquizzer: yes
14:14:13 <championquizzer> i don't think so
14:14:18 <ggus> i don't think it disappear
14:14:31 <ggus> you can even continue to comment on the thread
14:14:35 <championquizzer> it just appears with a checkbox ticked
14:14:53 <championquizzer> look at the third entry on the homepage now
14:15:12 <emmapeel> i feel sometimes power users will give solution that are incorrect, i would rather have us saying 'this is the correct answer', for example if somebody asks how to use a VPN with tor, we can say 'it is not a good idea' but a well meaning user may give instructions on how to do it. that should not be marked as solution, even when it is...
14:15:43 <emmapeel> oh, good then
14:16:34 <championquizzer> ok, so what ggus said wfm
14:16:40 <championquizzer> rule 0
14:17:15 <ggus> emmapeel: sometime topics are a 'never ending story.' tor vs vpn is one of them.
14:17:34 <championquizzer> but in general, i would not like the one who answers the thread to mark the thread as resolved
14:18:07 <ggus> https://forum.torproject.net/t/letterboxing-on-tor-browser-for-desktop/967
14:18:10 <emmapeel> championquizzer: you mean we should not mark our own answer as the solution?
14:18:18 <championquizzer> emmapeel: yes
14:18:31 <ggus> championquizzer: it would be nice if we had more staff doing user support, but in reality, it's just a few of us doing that
14:18:47 <championquizzer> good point
14:19:44 <championquizzer> so maybe someone from the community team can approve eachother's post as resolved and...
14:20:36 <championquizzer> mention somewhere that if the OP disagrees they can bring up with me , emmapeel and ggus or other people who would like to look into this stuff :)
14:22:45 <emmapeel> hmmm
14:23:45 <emmapeel> i feel i haven't used the forum enough to have an opinion on this. but i wouldn't like to do things other people disagrees with neither. i think i only did this to a couple of obvious solutions that weren't mine
14:24:27 <emmapeel> i think this is good if you are looking for an answer to see the 'solved' mark and the solving post very quickly
14:24:40 <championquizzer> yes, we don't have any conflicts so far but i still wanted to discuss this in case
14:24:52 <emmapeel> otherwise, sometimes the solutions are buried under a lot of useless comments :D
14:25:09 <championquizzer> yeah, i think that's the point of this feature
14:25:31 <emmapeel> and if i want my post to be marked as a solution, what should i do? ping you and ggus here on irc?
14:25:31 <ggus> one thing is that we can easily untick an answer marked as 'solution'
14:26:27 <championquizzer> emmapeel: yes, or on the forum itself via private message
14:26:35 <ggus> emmapeel: championquizzer i would prefer the inverse: mark as a solution, and if the user is unhappy that we can untick or discuss
14:28:09 <championquizzer> ggus: ok, then we should mention it somewhere that 'you must contact x and y if you think your thread has been wrongly marked as resolved'?
14:28:41 <emmapeel> yeah ggus proposal also sounds good, unless somebody abuses the system. but for example if somebody asks how can they translate the torproject website, i think i can answer and mark my answer as solution :D
14:29:07 <championquizzer> emmapeel: yeah, that was rule0 that ggus mentioned :)
14:29:12 <championquizzer> for obvious answers
14:29:17 <emmapeel> i see
14:30:32 <ggus> championquizzer: i would add that disclaimer only on 'hot topics'
14:30:53 <championquizzer> cool
14:31:28 <championquizzer> i think we can work with that
14:31:51 <emmapeel> i propose also that if we have doubts about marking something as a solution, we ask opinion of other people. or just leave it for a bit, in case there comes a better solution where we have no doubts
14:32:49 <ggus> yes, that's a good one
14:33:03 <championquizzer> agreed. i don't think we should absolutely rush to mark threads as resolved
14:33:53 <ggus> alright, anything else? i think so far the forum moderation is going well.
14:34:39 <championquizzer> nothing more to add from me on this topic. let's see how this works! :)
14:34:42 <championquizzer> ty
14:34:50 <emmapeel> thanks for thinking about this championquizzer
14:34:56 <ggus> thank you, championquizzer!
14:35:19 <ggus> the next topic is: Relay Operators Survey
14:35:21 * gman999 back lurking
14:35:45 <emmapeel> but gman999: lurkers dont speak!
14:35:54 <ggus> miko is working on the relay operators survey
14:36:07 <ggus> miko: do you want to talk more about the survey? :D
14:36:13 <miko[m]> \o/
14:36:14 * gman999 only talks to self
14:36:44 <miko[m]> survey seems comprehensive enough for the talkative ones
14:36:58 <miko[m]> and optional enough for the quiet ones hehe
14:37:35 <miko[m]> how many operators do y'all think will respond?
14:38:11 <ggus> No idea, but somewhere between 10 - 100, hehe
14:38:13 <emmapeel> where was the survey? sorry i want to check something
14:38:28 <miko[m]> nice broad estimate xDD
14:38:34 <emmapeel> i got some comments from some new relay operator
14:38:35 <ggus> emmapeel: it's on the pad
14:38:36 <gman999> i think 3-3000
14:38:46 <emmapeel> duh, sorry
14:38:47 <gman999> i think ggus is way off
14:38:54 <miko[m]> amongst those how many will opt to be interviewed? xD
14:39:03 <gman999> you saw my notes i assume on the bottom
14:39:25 <miko[m]> yes! i did not know who it was xD
14:39:33 <gman999> i'm the sloppy one
14:39:46 <miko[m]> x_D
14:40:19 <ggus> emmapeel: did you find the link?
14:40:38 <miko[m]> is there anything anyone here wants to say about interviews tho?
14:40:42 <ggus> miko: could you open a pad and draft an email to tor-relays@lists.tpo to announce the survey?
14:41:06 <miko[m]> alright, on it!
14:41:18 <emmapeel> ggus: yes, i found the link
14:41:31 <ggus> the survey will open today and will be online till January 10.
14:42:00 <emmapeel> the other day a person was telling me he came back to running relay because of the campaign, and had some issues with little-t-tor UX
14:42:13 <nah> miko[m]: if you want any support from me before/during/after interviews, let me know ;)
14:42:36 <miko[m]> yay! thanks nah! :D
14:42:37 <emmapeel> specifically: he made a syntax error on his torrc, and tor was just not running and not telling him there was a syntax error
14:43:05 <gman999> when will the survey be public?  after jan 10?
14:43:17 <ggus> emmapeel: i think that feedback would fit on the forum
14:43:36 <ggus> gman999: the results of the survey or the survey?
14:43:53 <gman999> when will the survey be pushed to the public?
14:44:08 <ggus> today!
14:44:24 <ggus> December 20, 2021
14:44:32 <gman999> oh, wow. ok
14:45:11 <emmapeel> ggus: that feedback will fit on the forum, or on the survey? sorry just checking to send my 'user' there
14:45:29 <ggus> emmapeel: on the forum
14:46:06 <championquizzer> not sure but many people might be absolutely afk during the holidays. maybe extending the end date a little over 10th jan is something we can think about?
14:46:12 <ggus> emmapeel: maybe we will need to create a feedback > Tor Feedback category
14:46:22 <ggus> or little-t-tor feedback
14:46:35 <emmapeel> ok
14:46:47 <ggus> alright, anything else about the relay survey? we're running out of time :)
14:47:06 <miko[m]> gus: https://pad.riseup.net/p/_IEdehutiosPtwCac_-p is the tone right? please feel free to edit
14:47:10 <nah> are you receiving feedback yet?
14:47:17 <nah> i thought it was already published
14:47:46 <ggus> miko: i will check in 1 hour, after another meeting
14:48:02 <miko[m]> sure! :D
14:48:16 <miko[m]> @nah - nope, we're yet to launch the survey
14:48:39 <emmapeel> miko[m]: i should say this because i do it all the time, but maybe there are a little too many '!'s ?
14:48:46 <emmapeel> i mean, i shouln't :D
14:48:58 <miko[m]> emma: thanks, i thought so too xD
14:49:41 <miko[m]> https://pad.riseup.net/p/IEdehutiosPtwCac-p updated
14:49:53 <ggus> i couldn't open your link
14:50:00 <emmapeel> oh, but dont take them all out! at least one could stay! (see, i do it all the time)
14:50:06 <miko[m]> it has underscores in it ;-;
14:50:27 <miko[m]> emma: i left two whole exclamations xD
14:50:31 <miko[m]> as a treat xD
14:50:39 <emmapeel> :)
14:51:35 <miko[m]> @gus https://pad.riseup.net/p/_ IEdehutiosPtwCac_-p remove the space after the underscore?
14:52:02 <ggus> miko: thank you!
14:52:49 <miko[m]> i'll pm you the link so you can look at it later :D
14:53:10 <ggus> miko: we should add some introduction of the project/Outreachy
14:53:33 <ggus> so people can verify that your project is real and not someone trying to impersonate you or the Tor Project
14:53:47 <ggus> (although the survey is selfhosted on survey.tpo)
14:53:48 <miko[m]> i see
14:54:06 <gman999> that is something we have to mitigate ggus...
14:54:11 <gman999> impersonation with various things
14:54:28 <miko[m]> could we link the gitlab issue https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/community/relays/-/issues/26 or...
14:54:38 <ggus> miko: yep!
14:54:47 <emmapeel> also add the survey link to the ticket maybe
14:55:02 <miko[m]> yesss
14:56:05 <miko[m]> @emma: survey link is commented on the ticket here: https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/community/relays/-/issues/27
14:56:28 <miko[m]> i feel like it is easily confused with the interview ticket #28 that i opened today
14:56:55 <miko[m]> i should edit the description of the survey ticket to include the link
14:57:22 <miko[m]> thanks for the tip, emma!
14:57:34 <ggus> miko: yes, or add as a comment
14:57:35 <emmapeel> happy to help miko[m] !
14:58:32 <ggus> folks, we will need to discuss the other two topics in the next meeting
14:58:40 <ggus> thanks all for joining us!
14:58:47 <emmapeel> yeah, we are about to be kicked ou from the room :D
14:58:48 <ggus> hope you enjoy the holidays! :)
14:58:55 <ggus> #endmeeting